I have decided to propose to my GF

[MOTU]

Sorry Tenacity

I am not buying an expensive diamond. I am gonna do a love knot ring instead.

I have also told her that we will have a joint "household" account that we both contribute to equally, and the rest of what is leftover we will both keep in our own accounts.

She makes me happy. We make good decisions together. There are no frame issues.

I will have her sign a prenup that protects my home and 401k.

We have fun together. We have the same sense of humor and sense of adventure.

I believe that the things I have learned here and on MMSL have helped make this relationship work.

 

[Tenacity]

Sorry Tenacity

I am not buying an expensive diamond. I am gonna do a love knot ring instead.

I have also told her that we will have a joint "household" account that we both contribute to equally, and the rest of what is leftover we will both keep in our own accounts.

She makes me happy. We make good decisions together. There are no frame issues.

I will have her sign a prenup that protects my home and 401k.

We have fun together. We have the same sense of humor and sense of adventure.

I believe that the things I have learned here and on MMSL have helped make this relationship work.

Good luck man lol, live your life. If you think this is the best thing for you, go for it. I don't think I would ever go down that road because women can change, due to their own internal personality flaws or external situations that cause them to change. And because the relationship isn't based on survival, the change that occurs might have the woman leaving you or the relationship becoming unbearable.

That's why I think we need to have an update to "marriage". The definition of marriage right now, based on Christian views, are two pieces of flesh coming together as one flesh, that is, to now be similar to "twins bonded at the hip". Well, if that were the case, then there should be absolutely no option for divorce, because if you were to separate one of the twins then the other twin would die. That's why the vow says, "Until Death Do Us Part" and if death occurs, one of you becomes a widow or widower as "apart of you" just died.

So the entire legal agreement makes no sense. There should be something called a "Committed Relationship Agreement". Where you can enter into it and gain tax benefits and other benefits that would come to "married couples", but should the relationship end there's no long legal bouts. You literally split what you shared together and you leave. No alimony, no need for attorneys, no need for Divorce Judges.

 

[YawataNoKami]

Prenups are useless.Get a DAPT .Domestic asset protection trusts (DAPTs) are trusts that protect assets from creditors, which include by definition a future spouse.

Additionally, a DAPT allows the settlor to name him or herself as a potential beneficiary—hence the name “self-settled” trusts. Beyond its utility as an estate planning device, asset protection trusts are effective against a settlor’s future spouse and other creditors provided the trust settlement does not violate applicable fraudulent transfer law.

Furthermore, in establishing a domestic asset protection trust, there is no requirement that the settlor of the trust disclose his plans to create a DAPT or the assets with which he will fund the trust. This technique is very appealing to many individuals who, although would like to protect their assets from their future spouse or the widely unpredictable discretion of a judge, would like to do so quietly and without any hassle.

 

[Desdinova]

If you've dated her for a decade or more and she's proven to be a loyal, committed woman, then congrats.

If she's been around for less than a decade, then prepare yourself for the risk that it may not work out.

 

[Tictac]

Some risks are worth taking.

Never taking risks is a formula for a stunted existence.

Each man must decide for himself which risks are worth it.

 

[logicallefty]

Each party should be entitled to say "until death do us part" and something else.

Men should say: ".....until death do us part or she cheats and/or becomes bat sh|t crazy"

Woman should say: "....until death do us part or I get bored and/or I find another man I would rather have".

Good luck to ya OP. As our resident expert on marrying bigamists, I advise that you make sure you background check her and make sure she isn't already married to someone else :crackup:

 

[BetterCallSaul]

Good luck sir. Marriage can still work even today.

 

[Malcontent]

No matter how happy she makes you feel, or how perfect you think she is, there's no reason to validate your relationship to the church and the state.

That's exactly the explanation I give every time someone asks me why I won't get married.

 

[MOTU]

Thanks everyone for the comments, I figured this would generate some discussion.

I am aware that I am taking some risk. However, that risk is somewhat mitigated by the circumstances:
In TX, she can't lay any claim to my house or portion of its value if I own it before we marry. Even if she can prove she paid half the mortgage, it doesn't matter. I recently refinanced my house and used cash out to pay off all other debt, so I can focus on paying off my house and that will be secure.
- The 401k exclusion is also common in TX and holds up well in court. I'll be putting as much as I can in my 401k.
- She makes good money. It will save me money to have her sharing expenses.

I have internalized that she will stay with me as long as it is in her best interest. Maybe beyond that as well, but I am not counting on that. So my real risk is that once her kids are raised that she'll decide to move on. That's a decade from now.

But I want this, so it's worth a calculated risk to me. I can't come felt explain why I want it, but I do. Maybe not so different from someone who wants to live quietly in the woods or downtown in a tiny apartment. They both give up different things to get what they want.

And yes, I have discussed the financial details with her and she responded well and agreed to my structure.

But I do plan a long engagement, and I'll be watching for new red flags.

 

[Tenacity]

Social Leper,

I wonder are your stances changing? I thought you were previously for marriage though?

 

[Tenacity]

I'm in BOLD

Thanks everyone for the comments, I figured this would generate some discussion.

I am aware that I am taking some risk.

Which means you should always ask, what is the expected reward? Sure, we all take risks the moment we decide to operate a vehicle, we could be killed by a drunk driver or a deer or anything. But the reward is being free and being able to continue to operate your life. What do you think the reward or return of taking the risk with this marriage contract is?

However, that risk is somewhat mitigated by the circumstances:
In TX, she can't lay any claim to my house or portion of its value if I own it before we marry. Even if she can prove she paid half the mortgage, it doesn't matter. I recently refinanced my house and used cash out to pay off all other debt, so I can focus on paying off my house and that will be secure.
- The 401k exclusion is also common in TX and holds up well in court. I'll be putting as much as I can in my 401k.
- She makes good money. It will save me money to have her sharing expenses.

You really can't mitigate the risks because your wife could stop working and in some form or fashion become a stay at home mother. If that happens and you divorce, she will argue that her marketplace skills have decreased during the time she wasn't working and alimony could be considered. In addition please understand that a Prenup is not Insurance, it's a pre-arranged contract at the beginning of the marriage for how both parties (assuming conditions are the same) expect the ending of the marriage to go about. But if conditions change, like your wife becoming at stay at home mother, then the provisions within the Pre-Nup will be argued against.

I have internalized that she will stay with me as long as it is in her best interest. Maybe beyond that as well, but I am not counting on that. So my real risk is that once her kids are raised that she'll decide to move on. That's a decade from now.

So you do understand that once she no longer finds you entertaining or she's no longer "interested" in being married to you, she can just leave? So the question is, why sign a contract that's based on lifetime love? Why not just enter into some type of arrangement based on short or medium term love? Short term as in 5 years, 10 years or 15 years? You should never sign a marriage contract unless you are going to DIE with that woman and you are going to go through WHATEVER BULLSHYT that marriage has you going through, and also that your woman is going to do the same thing...that is, stay with you and tolerate any bullshyt you throw at her. If you don't think you can do this or if you don't think she will do this, why sign this contract?

But I want this, so it's worth a calculated risk to me. I can't come felt explain why I want it, but I do. Maybe not so different from someone who wants to live quietly in the woods or downtown in a tiny apartment. They both give up different things to get what they want.

And yes, I have discussed the financial details with her and she responded well and agreed to my structure.

But I do plan a long engagement, and I'll be watching for new red flags.

I would just love to hear why you want to sign this contract? You already have the woman, you are sleeping with the woman, you are technically already MARRIED to her from a relationship/rapport/"in love" standpoint. Why do you need to sign a contract that vows you and her will never break up, when circumstances beyond your control can lead to your breakup?

 

[Bible_Belt]

Is she about your age? Her baby-making days are behind her, right?

Marriage is no big deal, as long as you don't knock her up. Every divorce horror story I read involves children. Having kids together is the big deal, not the stupid piece of paper from the courthouse.

Marriage is an idea. It is what you make of it.

 

[zekko]

If you've dated her for a decade or more and she's proven to be a loyal, committed woman, then congrats.

If she's been around for less than a decade, then prepare yourself for the risk that it may not work out.

10 years is no guarantee that she will stick around. I've seen people get divorced after being married for 50 years. It's a divorce happy culture, there are no guarantees.

 

[zekko]

So the entire legal agreement makes no sense. There should be something called a "Committed Relationship Agreement". Where you can enter into it and gain tax benefits and other benefits that would come to "married couples", but should the relationship end there's no long legal bouts. You literally split what you shared together and you leave

It's funny how the homosexuals have fought so hard for gay marriage, and were dissatisfied with "civil unions". And now the heterosexuals are wanting to opt out of marriage and would rather have the civil unions (or committed relationship agreements).

The problem with your statement is that people are not going to agree on how to split things. That's why they have lawyers fighting over the divorce proceedings.

 

[Tenacity]

It's funny how the homosexuals have fought so hard for gay marriage, and were dissatisfied with "civil unions". And now the heterosexuals are wanting to opt out of marriage and would rather have the civil unions (or committed relationship agreements).

The problem with your statement is that people are not going to agree on how to split things. That's why they have lawyers fighting over the divorce proceedings.

Civil Unions are actually the way majority of Marriages are performing anyway, because as I pointed out if you are truly Married based on the Christian principle, there's NO OPTION for a divorce, period. If you can potentially separate, then all you ever had was a Civil Union or a "Committed Relationship Agreement".

In terms of splitting assets this can be straight forward. You have bank accounts, investment accounts, and other property such as cars, houses, computers, clothes, etc.

What is HIS, he keeps.

What is HERS, she keeps.

What you shared together, you split up. So let's say you had a shared bank account, you both had two cars you shared, you shared the house, and you shared the computer. You would do a monetary value of all of these assets and then split them down 50/50. If you can't get to an even 50/50, you can do 51/49 and the one getting 51% would just have to write a reimbursement check to cover the 1% overage.

Having all of the documentation sorted out like this would be clear and to the point. No alimony and no future hold on future earnings UNLESS you guys owned a business together. If you guys owned a business together, either do a buy-out agreement or you guys might continue to be partners within said business.

This is much more simple, straight to the point and tailored to the actual performance of relationships today.

 

[backbreaker]

Congrats

 

[stevo]

Congrats MOTU. Quite a big step.

Did you bring up the prenup agreement? How did it go?

How long have you been with this chic?

 

[sodbuster]

There ARE reasons for Divorce in the BIBLE. In fact, Jesus said,"if you are married to an unbeliever, and they leave, let them go" Infidelity, etc are all listed as reasons.....

It's RELIGION that is against Divorce.... NOT the Bible

 

[zekko]

People on this forum tend to look down on guys who get married, or who are married. They tend to dismiss them as "betas" and "beta providers". And I can't recommend marriage just because it's a big risk. But I will say this:

The guys who have married, and stayed married, and raised families, and actually KEPT those families together, and STAYED married, and KEPT their wives in this divorce happy society? I have to give them some respect, because I don't know how they've done it. Raising a family, being the leader of the family, that's a longstanding and legitimate male role, and if they can successfully pull it off, yeah I don't see anything "beta" about it.

 

[Rainman4707]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to zekko again