I believe us older guys should stop bullsh1tting the younger ones

Barrister

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So do I. I've seen the famous SMV chart that @Rollo Tomassi and others have pointed out. My 30s hasn't reflected that experience at all. I'm in my late 30s now. It's not been any easier for me than it was in my 20s. When I was 30-35, there were not 20-25 year olds clamoring to be my girlfriend. During some of that time, I was fighting it out using swipe apps, where men have a numeric disadvantage. Even going out and cold approaching isn't easy for a 30 something man, just like it isn't for guys in their 20s who have already finished college and can't rely on campus events to meet women,

Most men in their 30s and 40s are vagina beggars who will settle for whatever they can get.
My experience has closely reflected the SMV chart that Rollo came up with. I have had far more success in my 30s than I did in my early 20s. A lot of that is just understanding game in general - which I would not say I had a firm grasp from 21-24.

I will disagree that cold approaching "isn't easy" for a guy in his 30s. Sure, you have to expect to not always (perhaps usually not) getting a number from cold approaching. But it is by no means hard to approach women. And no one said women are "clamoring to be your girlfriend" - it is on the man to make the efforts in making that initial approach with most women.

There is also no reason to be a "vagina beggar." If you are a good looking guy, have stayed in shape, and have some social pull you can definitely still pull women in mid-late 20s into your early 40s. I am doing it now at 35 and I have friends in early 40s who are doing as well.
 

FlexpertHamilton

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I basically agree with the OP. The concept of a wall for women is complete nonsense, at least as its discussed around here. Sure older women probably have it a bit tougher than when they were younger but its even worse for men as they age, not better. If you can find the right girl in your 20s you better lock her down because the odds of you finding someone similar in your 40s are basically zero for most men. That doesn't mean you should be a simp or whatever but you do need to have a realistic view of what getting older is like.
Women absolutely have it tougher as they age. They lose their fertility much quicker than men. This has all sorts of devastating effects on their femininity. Plus, their skin is thinner and is more prone to wrinkles. That's why they tend to age much worse. I see zero reason why a high SMV man in his 40s couldnt easily lock down an attractive women in her late 20s or early 30s.

So do I. I've seen the famous SMV chart that @Rollo Tomassi and others have pointed out. My 30s hasn't reflected that experience at all. I'm in my late 30s now. It's not been any easier for me than it was in my 20s. When I was 30-35, there were not 20-25 year olds clamoring to be my girlfriend. During some of that time, I was fighting it out using swipe apps, where men have a numeric disadvantage. Even going out and cold approaching isn't easy for a 30 something man, just like it isn't for guys in their 20s who have already finished college and can't rely on campus events to meet women,

Most men in their 30s and 40s are vagina beggars who will settle for whatever they can get.

I would agree that Rollo, and many Red Pill tenants in general are taken as law when in reality, there is much more nuance and invidual differences that need to be considered.

I think it's all dependent on context. For example, you have to acknowledge the fact that the "game" is getting harder in general, so what may have been easy 10 years ago won't be easy today, but not because of you, but the state of the game itself. Plus, there is a nostalgic bias. I certainly don't remember 90% - 95% of my rejections.

All that said, I'm only in my early 30s so maybe I just need to wait until I'm 40 before I can speak on this topic, but I have found that each passing year I attract more and more women with increasing age gaps both ways. So, key takeaway is that your YMMV.
 
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corrector

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Women absolutely have it tougher as they age. They lose their fertility much quicker than men. This has all sorts of devastating effects on their femininity. Plus, their skin is thinner and is more prone to wrinkles. That's why they tend to age much worse. I see zero reason why a high SMV man in his 40s couldnt easily lock down an attractive women in her late 20s or early 30s.
Really? Women always have lots of options with guys even if they are 70 years old no matter how badly they age and even if they have no fertility. That is just the disgusting reality of the dating market. Its very convenient to use a high SMV guy as an excuse when most of the discussion is about "average guys", it makes me wonder if they are just talking about beta-buxxing and dead bedrooms as some sort of consolation prize if you missed the boat when you are younger which just sucks since you usually get zero respect from the women in those arrangements and they are gone when you lose the good job or whatever it is.

It reminds of the same BS lines my mom used to tell me about getting older. She would say Pierre Trudeau got married very late in life. Yeah, he was the Prime Minister and a very high SMV man. The OP is right, older guys have been blue-pill BSing younger guys with nonsense like the wall, or having convenient fine-printing that says "high-SMV" - like being the president or celebrity to further undermine their BS arguments.
 

PRW63

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I'm referring to people like Rollo and those other youtubers and influencers that are doing a very strong disservice to their younger followers.
You do realize that this forum is where Rollo came from right? You do realize that Rollo's teaching and popularity is what has kept this forum alive all these years, right? Otherwise it would have degraded into a poor Reddit imitation and died off.

On YouTube there is Rollo,...and then there is everyone else. He is not preaching the same thing the rest are and spends 50% of his time fighting against all the BS that comes from the rest of them,...most of them grifters.

The rest of what you are saying is all anecdotal. "It happened to me this way, so that is the only way it can be, because I know everything and do everything right". That is the way that women debate,...all anecdotal. You are using society's current condition to judge what Tomassi teaches and saying he is wrong,..... rather than using what Tomassi teaches to demontrate how wrong society is.
 

PRW63

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It reminds of the same BS lines my mom used to tell me about getting older. She would say Pierre Trudeau got married very late in life. Yeah, he was the Prime Minister and a very high SMV man.
And he still got cucked by Fidel Castrol and out popped Justin that wasn't his.
 

PRW63

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So do I. I've seen the famous SMV chart that @Rollo Tomassi It's not been any easier for me than it was in my 20s.
That is anecdotal. Doesn't make the graph wrong because it didn't work for you. The graph is data showing the value, the general desirability, in a generic sense of the subject being compared,...it has nothing to with the skill of the subjects involved or what they do wrong, what they do right, their level of game skills, or how attractive they are, both as an individual and relative the one they are standing next to.

Most men in their 30s and 40s are vagina beggars who will settle for whatever they can get.
What I see are ones who are the "beggars" but they just stay that way. They don't settle. They just continue to aim above their reach. None aim within their reach,...it is unheard of,...it just doesn't happen. The ones who are "capable" and end up single due to divorce or the wife dies, typically end up married (or at least LTR) fairly quickly. They end up getting the women that the others who were aiming above their reach couldn't get. Many on both the male and female side are just simply too broken to get into any kind of relationship or maintain it if they happen to fall into one by accident.
 
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Bigpapa

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That is anecdotal. Doesn't make the graph wrong because it didn't work for you. The graph is data showing the value, the general desirability, in a generic sense of the subject being compared,...it has nothing to with the skill of the subjects involved or what they do wrong, what they do right, their level of game skills, or how attractive they are, both as an individual and relative the one they are standing next to.

What I see are ones who are the "beggars" but they just stay that way. They don't settle. They just continue to aim above their reach. None aim within their reach,...it is unheard of,...it just doesn't happen. The ones who are "capable" and end up single due to divorce or the wife dies, typically end up married (or at least LTR) fairly quickly. They end up getting the women that the others who were aiming above their reach couldn't get. Many on both the male and female side are just simply too broken to get into any kind of relationship or maintain it if they happen to fall into one by accident.
i do not see anything wrong in trying to aim above your smv , it tells you exactly where you are at and where you have to go in order to have them

have a friend , he is not good looking , skinny and full of tattoos . Most of the time he gets crap , but occasionally he gets a good looking one

what people fail to understand is that your smv influences how easily you can hook girls of a certain caliber most of the times , not if you can ever bang a good looking girl or not

if you are a 5 , most of the girls that you can bang will be 4s and bellow

sometimes 5 and 6

rarely 7s

and from time to time maybe an 8+

but the biggest chunk of girls will be maximum 5s
 

PRW63

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i do not see anything wrong in trying to aim above your smv , it tells you exactly where you are at and where you have to go in order to have them
Now we are just debating extremes. It might tell them where they are,...but they aren't getting the message.
The guys I am talking about are going years,...yeeeaaaarrrrrssss!,...with zero results. SIMPing is pretty much their MO and there isn't a chance in the world that the women they are focusing on will ever respond positively to them. When the women finally does get a "BF" and you see who he is,...it is like comparing a Hollywood A-Lister to a homeless guy.
 

fastlife

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but there is no chance in hell that you will have access to better good looking women compared to your younger self
Lol. What? I think you're confusing proximity with access. Ya, you won't have hot, young girls that you see everyday in class (proximity) but most college dudes don't have real access to those girls. They have no tangible skillset to convert those girls--tho they may get lucky from time to time.

And, no matter what your age is, there's nothing stopping you from hitting the college bar of your choice--where, ya, some small % of girls won't be into you because of your age, and, ya, the soros/frats will ****block you with some % of the top-shelf, but still possible to do extremely well in those environments. And, ya, smash some of those girls often enough and most of them will want to be your gf. And that's not to mention the 22/23 yo's who are just now settling into their boring ass corporate lifestyles and are in new cities where they don't have tight social circles and are tired of the lames they're meeting on bumble--easy pickings.

Nothing creates attraction, it's either there or it's not and making yourself a security or an utility to a woman will get you laid but it will come from a conscious decision from her...there is no raw animal instinctual desire unlike the pretty girls drinking chad's juice in the back seat of his car.
Lol. This assumption is probably the basis for the experience you've had. No, you can't just build up your passive value (or do nothing at all) and hope that things magically get better over time. They won't. Unless you're an A-list celebrity or super plugged into the social value of your local environment, no, these girls won't come to you. But young guys have an extremely tough time competing with older guys--and I compete with these kids every weekend--on sexual experience, dominance, frame, leadership, self-confidence, groundedness, non-reactiveness, etc., etc.--all of which are qualities that can be used to generate attraction and build compliance.

Ya, my #s have dropped off a little bit from where they were in my mid-20s but that has more to do with lower motivation and higher standards as far as what kinds of personality traits I'll accept in girls I spend my time with (and phone #s getting significantly more flakey with the peak of IG/tinder/tiktok/onlyfans). But see no reason why I won't be able to continue what I'm doing now for at least the next decade or two if I'm so inclined. But, ya, most guys will peak earlier rather than later because they're passive and lazy and scared to face rejection.
 
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Plinco

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Lol. What? I think you're confusing proximity with access. Ya, you won't have hot, young girls that you see everyday in class (proximity) but most college dudes don't have real access to those girls. They have no tangible skillset to convert those girls--tho they may get lucky from time to time.

And, no matter what your age is, there's nothing stopping you from hitting the college bar of your choice--where, ya, some small % of girls won't be into you because of your age, and, ya, the soros/frats will ****block you with some % of the top-shelf, but still possible to do extremely well in those environments. And, ya, smash some of those girls often enough and most of them will want to be your gf. And that's not to mention the 22/23 yo's who are just now settling into their boring ass corporate lifestyles and are in new cities where they don't have tight social circles and are tired of the lames they're meeting on bumble--easy pickings.



Lol. This assumption is probably the basis for the experience you've had. No, you can't just build up your passive value (or do nothing at all) and hope that things magically get better over time. They won't. Unless you're an A-list celebrity or super plugged into the social value of your local environment, no, these girls won't come to you. But young guys have an extremely tough time competing with older guys--and I compete with these kids every weekend--on sexual experience, dominance, frame, leadership, self-confidence, groundedness, non-reactiveness, etc., etc.--all of which are qualities that can be used to generate attraction and build compliance.

Ya, my #s have dropped off a little bit from where they were in my mid-20s but that has more to do with lower motivation and higher standards as far as what kinds of personality traits I'll accept in girls I spend my time with (and phone #s getting significantly more flakey with the peak of IG/tinder/tiktok/onlyfans). But see no reason why I won't be able to continue what I'm doing now for at least the next decade or two if I'm so inclined. But, ya, most guys will peak earlier rather than later because they're passive and lazy and scared to face rejection.
Curious... how old are you?
 

fastlife

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Curious... how old are you?
For the sake of privacy, a little vague: but early 30s.

(Also girls gave me infinitely more **** about my age when I was 24 & insecure about being the old guy in the college bars lol. These days when I tell girls my age they’re like, “Oh my god!! That’s amazing” or tell me how they love older guys or tell me about how they’ve dated older guys than me.)

EDIT: also, most guys who believe that younger women don’t like older guys are probs just relying on old where most girls don’t change their default settings which caps at like 27 or something—so they’re not even SEEING you lol. And will go in with negative assumptions about older guys vs if they met you in person and they could experience your vibe.
 
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Bigpapa

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For the sake of privacy, a little vague: but early 30s.

(Also girls gave me infinitely more **** about my age when I was 24 & insecure about being the old guy in the college bars lol. These days when I tell girls my age they’re like, “Oh my god!! That’s amazing” or tell me how they love older guys or tell me about how they’ve dated older guys than me.)

EDIT: also, most guys who believe that younger women don’t like older guys are probs just relying on old where most girls don’t change their default settings which caps at like 27 or something—so they’re not even SEEING you lol. And will go in with negative assumptions about older guys vs if they met you in person and they could experience your vibe.
also , guys should also have a look at the gf and wives Of some of the top for all players I. The world

http://instagr.am/p/CbTUncYvgVx/
 

Barrister

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She looks like a classic favela Ho to me. She probably has old mud under her toenails from when she had to flee her shanty down a muddy road from a coke raid. She is not hot at all to me. Don’t let the makeup fool you. Very masculine face and rugby shoulders too in that photo. She might be trans.
Was thinking the same thing. Take away the makeup and I think she might look pretty rough.
 

Bigpapa

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Was thinking the same thing. Take away the makeup and I think she might look pretty rough.
being wealthy and A celebrity does not mean that you also sleep with good looking women

If you swipe the pics , you will see more footballers and their gfs and wives

this was my point
 

BeExcellent

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Listen. We are all going to age. Best to do it gracefully. People who are attractive (good looking, fit and stylish) are going to have the most opportunity at any given age relative to their peers. The real outliers are going to have wide appeal (much greater than their peers) to many people.

I’m in my early 50s as many of you know. Men from early 30s to early 80s approach me all the time. @RangerMIke is correct. It takes greater discipline to remain fit in your 50s. Most people, men and women both, give up. Men are dealing with midlife & declining T levels, women are dealing with menopause. But discipline wins the day. My best advice to the younger guys here (the advice I give my own 19 year old son) is this:

On looks:
1. Eat healthy & do not over eat
2. Exercise and discipline your body, which helps to mature & discipline your mind
3. Dress with panache. My son loves to dress. He is good looking although only 5’8”, and he rocks brogues good jeans and a sport coat or smoking jacket or dress shirt. He outclasses many men much older than he is. He is stylish, cool and sophisticated in appearance. Chicks dig him.
4. Confidence wins the day.
5. Pick a chick who is into you. High interest all the way.
6. Avoid the sun. Nothing ages you faster.

On success:
1. The world doesn’t care about you. The world judges you on your results. Create good results and you create a good life. Your mom and your best mates will love you, maybe a wife if you choose well, but no one else cares. Understand that & get about results.
2. Do everything in your power to avoid mistakes you cannot recover from.
3. Have character. Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking.
4. Have/develop work ethic. Winners never quit & Quitters never win. Perseverance rules the day.
5. Know when to change horses in life. Learn when.
6. Find a mentor & learn everything you can from them.

On Women:
1. We are ALL crazy. Pick a crazy you can live with.
2. You focus on being the best man you can. Require through your actions and your leadership for her to be her best self too.
3. Women freak out. Let them. They’ll get over it if you refuse to freak out with them.
4. Pick someone who is passionate about you & who you find physically and otherwise irresistible. Sexual chemistry is the glue.
5. Hold women to account. Your mom, your sister, your girlfriend or wife.
6. Be a gentleman and expect a lady.
7. Do not be afraid to dismiss.
8. Pick someone patient and loving and kind. Reward her for these traits.

I know 50 year old men who date women in their 20s and I know men who have let the beer belly & sloppiness ruin their prospects too. I hang out with others who, like me have made a lifestyle of good habits, fun & act togetherness. My fiancé is 45 and HOT. Desirable in every way but with his own set of quirks too. He worries about me because he sees the way men vy for my attention, which keeps him sharp.

He knows he’s lucky. But make no mistake. You make your own luck.

Cheers
 

Who Dares Win

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You do realize that this forum is where Rollo came from right? You do realize that Rollo's teaching and popularity is what has kept this forum alive all these years, right? Otherwise it would have degraded into a poor Reddit imitation and died off.

On YouTube there is Rollo,...and then there is everyone else. He is not preaching the same thing the rest are and spends 50% of his time fighting against all the BS that comes from the rest of them,...most of them grifters.

The rest of what you are saying is all anecdotal. "It happened to me this way, so that is the only way it can be, because I know everything and do everything right". That is the way that women debate,...all anecdotal. You are using society's current condition to judge what Tomassi teaches and saying he is wrong,..... rather than using what Tomassi teaches to demontrate how wrong society is.
You joined this forum in 2020 yet apparently read all of rollo's posts despite he left years before your arrival...

We will let him know about his biggest fan and hopefully you will get a follow back from him so you wont end up like stan.

Listen. We are all going to age. Best to do it gracefully. People who are attractive (good looking, fit and stylish) are going to have the most opportunity at any given age relative to their peers. The real outliers are going to have wide appeal (much greater than their peers) to many people.

I’m in my early 50s as many of you know. Men from early 30s to early 80s approach me all the time. @RangerMIke is correct. It takes greater discipline to remain fit in your 50s. Most people, men and women both, give up. Men are dealing with midlife & declining T levels, women are dealing with menopause. But discipline wins the day. My best advice to the younger guys here (the advice I give my own 19 year old son) is this:

On looks:
1. Eat healthy & do not over eat
2. Exercise and discipline your body, which helps to mature & discipline your mind
3. Dress with panache. My son loves to dress. He is good looking although only 5’8”, and he rocks brogues good jeans and a sport coat or smoking jacket or dress shirt. He outclasses many men much older than he is. He is stylish, cool and sophisticated in appearance. Chicks dig him.
4. Confidence wins the day.
5. Pick a chick who is into you. High interest all the way.
6. Avoid the sun. Nothing ages you faster.

On success:
1. The world doesn’t care about you. The world judges you on your results. Create good results and you create a good life. Your mom and your best mates will love you, maybe a wife if you choose well, but no one else cares. Understand that & get about results.
2. Do everything in your power to avoid mistakes you cannot recover from.
3. Have character. Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking.
4. Have/develop work ethic. Winners never quit & Quitters never win. Perseverance rules the day.
5. Know when to change horses in life. Learn when.
6. Find a mentor & learn everything you can from them.

On Women:
1. We are ALL crazy. Pick a crazy you can live with.
2. You focus on being the best man you can. Require through your actions and your leadership for her to be her best self too.
3. Women freak out. Let them. They’ll get over it if you refuse to freak out with them.
4. Pick someone who is passionate about you & who you find physically and otherwise irresistible. Sexual chemistry is the glue.
5. Hold women to account. Your mom, your sister, your girlfriend or wife.
6. Be a gentleman and expect a lady.
7. Do not be afraid to dismiss.
8. Pick someone patient and loving and kind. Reward her for these traits.

I know 50 year old men who date women in their 20s and I know men who have let the beer belly & sloppiness ruin their prospects too. I hang out with others who, like me have made a lifestyle of good habits, fun & act togetherness. My fiancé is 45 and HOT. Desirable in every way but with his own set of quirks too. He worries about me because he sees the way men vy for my attention, which keeps him sharp.

He knows he’s lucky. But make no mistake. You make your own luck.

Cheers
Not to sound an ass but you wrote half a page with limited to no content regarding the focus of this thread.

I mean it's not about your biography, motivational stuff or random personal wisdom...

I'm saying "dont trust those who sell you an age for something that it's not while downplaying the previous one" and you make lists of tips cosmopolitan style.
 

HaleyBaron

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That reminds me, I need to go visit my old school frat party once in a while to see how I can manage against the usual guys. I don't think I'll have much trouble. With age, you start realizing how easy all the young girls are. Maybe it's just me.
 
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