How would you react to your girl kissing a guy?

[DonJuanit0]

That's HUMAN NATURE
forums like this would'nt even exist if it was'nt.
Humans do what they can get away with.

That's what I actually said!

 

[Phenomenal One]

That's what I actually said!

it bears repeating

 

[Trader]

That's HUMAN NATURE
forums like this would'nt even exist if it was'nt.
Humans do what they can get away with.

What you forget is that if you forgive someone - it does not mean that the person will do it again. The key is the *frame.*

If you have been controlling the frame and you have been dominant with your girl, forgiveness will not make you weak, in fact, it will make you look stronger.

Let me give you an example:

Suppose you work for a Fortune 500 company, and you try to steal from the company and you get caught. The CEO calls you to your office, tells you to sit down, and asks for your story. You confess knowing that you are probably going to lose your job, but he ends up forgiving you.

You walk out of his office, and you are going to steal again?

Please, if you steal again, you are going to incur the CEO's wrath, he will hire his legal team and sue you to oblivion. I think you dare not steal again, why? Because the CEO has the FRAME. Instead you being the weaker party, feel gratitude that you were not sent to the guillotine.

That's why Gandhi said: “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.”

 

[Phenomenal One]

What you forget is that if you forgive someone - it does not mean that the person will do it again. The key is the *frame.*
If you have been controlling the frame and you have been dominant with your girl, forgiveness will not make you weak, in fact, it will make you look stronger.

Let me give you an example:

Suppose you work for a Fortune 500 company, and you try to steal from the company and you get caught. The CEO calls you to your office, tells you to sit down, and asks for your story. You confess knowing that you are probably going to lose your job, but he ends up forgiving you.
You walk out of his office, and you are going to steal again?
Please, if you steal again, you are going to incur the CEO's wrath, he will hire his legal team and sue you to oblivion. I think you dare not steal again, why? Because the CEO has the FRAME.
That's why Gandhi said: “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.”

...because the person knows that they'll be repercussions if it happens a 2nd time.

It's can't just be "ohh you did this, it's ok i forgive you".
The person's got to know that the 1st time they just got bye by the skin of their teeth and the same may not happen the 2nd time.

Good post thou

 

[Trader]

...because the person knows that they'll be repercussions if it happens a 2nd time.

It's can't just be "ohh you did this, it's ok i forgive you".
The person's got to know that the 1st time they just got bye by the skin of their teeth and the same may not happen the 2nd time.

Good post thou

Right - that's why it's all about the frame. You have to be honest with yourself - did the girl kiss the guy cause I lost the frame/dominance?

If so, then she is probably going to do it again.

But you have to be honest with yourself. Easier said than done, since most guys will always come up with some excuse for their girl's slutty behavior to avoid admitting that they lost the frame.

 

[Phenomenal One]

But you have to be honest with yourself. Easier said than done, since most guys will always come up with some excuse for their girl's slutty behavior to avoid admitting that they lost the frame.

sometimes it's the woman's fault, sometimes it's the man's. (sometimes frames don't mean sh*t if the other person won't submit to em)

i'd look at both sides before just going to one

 

[ThatMysteriousGuy]

It's can't just be "ohh you did this, it's ok i forgive you".
The person's got to know that the 1st time they just got bye by the skin of their teeth and the same may not happen the 2nd time.

EXACTLY

You get it! You never want to do that sort of thing or you'll just get kicked in the nuts over and over.

 

[drak_ool]

Trader, your reasoning is interesting but it's just a catch-22 in the end.

You say the frame is the key. Whoever controls the frame controls the relationship and vice versa: if you're not willing to lead, you will be forced to follow. Fair enough, I agree with you so far. But you lose me when you say this:

If you have been controlling the frame and you have been dominant with your girl, forgiveness will not make you weak, in fact, it will make you look stronger.

Well, that s the whole point! Your gf is cheating on you because you are NOT controlling the frame and she does not feel dominated by you. In fact, through her actions, she is openly disrespecting you!

I understand your theory: you're saying if a girl is super into you, and you've had a good relationship with her, just because she wavers a little/she has a moment of weakness/she doesn't feel bound and restricted by your frame (the kiss moment), it doesn't mean that she has completely lost her ways. So you're saying that by teaching her a lesson at this very crucial point in your relationship, you will re-establish your dominant frame.

This is where your theory becomes preposterous: a high quality gf does not go out and make out with a guy the first time she has a moment of indecision. For her to go that far, it means she's already been analyzing your relationship for a while. She's lost enough respect for you to feel comfortable overstepping your boundaries. You will not re-establish a dominant fram over this woman (you might think you do, but she knows she kissed a guy, told you about it and you didn't break up with her... she's got your number!)

So either your girl is low quality (automatic NEXT), or your frame is so eroded that she's lost enough respect for you to the point where she feels comfortable going out and kissing another guy.

And you tell me you need to keep this girl?

 

[trv26]

Thanks very much for the responses guys. Maybe a bit more information is in order. I'll try and give as much information as I can give.

OK firstly this girl and I have been going out for over two years. We live a fair distance apart, roughly 3 hours by train, so we used to meet roughly once every one or sometimes more. Getting to the details of the situation in hand.

The meeting before last, I remember her comparing me to this guy friend in question (lets call him X). Stuff like, you're tall but I wish you were taller like X. You should do your hair like him etc. Then around September, I know this guy started going out with another girl, who also happens to be her friend. I remember my girl complaining how much she hates her etc. and complaining about how this guy used to be a good friend of theirs and now she's turned him against them. I found this very odd about her going on about this guy, and thought she might have feelings for him, but assumed she wouldn't act on them. Her I should add, they all work together.

Since September, the phone calls dried up. Her excuses being she gets really tired from work and thus falls asleep early etc. And whenever I called, she talked for 5-10 minutes, said she was feeling sleepy and then we used to hang up. I genuinely believed this and decided I wouldn't pester her too much etc.

Anyway, late November we met at someones party. I found her keeping away from me, but assumed this was simply because her parents were around and I know they don't approve of her dating. Also, while at the party, I noticed her checking a message and smile. I asked her who the message was from and she goes X. So, I asked her to pass me her phone and she refused. I would have made a go at the phone, but I didn't want to make a scene at the party so let it go.

Anyway, a week later, on facebook, she says she needs to tell me something and knows I'll hate her for life for it. I press her for it but she says it needs to be on the phone. At this point I was worried she must have kissed someone, but hoping that wasn't the case.

Anyway, two days later on the phone she tells me...

She realises why she used to get jealous of her friend. Then says her friend and the guy broke up. Further she says, that 4 of them had gone on a trip recently roughly 2-3 weeks before. The four being, her best-friend and her bf, herself and X. She tells me the guy tried to kiss her on the way back but she pushed him away. But, she goes on, they had gone to a movie the day before we met at the party. This time another girlfriend tagged along. Apparently after the movie he kissed her and she kissed him back. So I ask her whether she wants to break up with me and go out with that guy instead. And she says, "I didn't say that."

Anyway I put down the phone after that and in fact broke my sim-card p) so I wouldn't feel tempted to contact her. Now, off and on, we chat/talk etc. From what she tells me, she has told the guy, that she still likes me and whether or not me and her get back together, she'd never date him. Anyway, the message I get from her is confusing. Sometimes, she says, she wants to get back. Others, she says its probably best to stay separate and that she'd understand if I'd go out with other girls.

Thing is she's the first and only gf I've ever had. So she means a lot to me. Something in me wishes that this was just a split second mistake she made and that she still loves me and we'd get back together.

On speaking to her friends, one of them (the one I'd say she's closest to) says she just wants to be single. Also, about the first kiss attempt, she said they kissed, which I took to imply that my girl kissed him back. On pressing her about the discrepancy between what she told me and my gf did, she said that she was only told about a kiss there having been a kiss, and says she wasn't aware of the details.

A second friend of hers, tells me she stills loves me, but not as much as before. Also, that my girl is caught between staying single and getting back with me, but is worried I might just get back with her for a short while and try and get my revenge.

I don't even know what I expect from you guys. But feel free to give me your advice based on this post.

 

[ThatMysteriousGuy]

Thanks very much for the responses guys. Maybe a bit more information is in order. I'll try and give as much information as I can give.

OK firstly this girl and I have been going out for over two years. We live a fair distance apart, roughly 3 hours by train, so we used to meet roughly once every one or sometimes more. Getting to the details of the situation in hand.

The meeting before last, I remember her comparing me to this guy friend in question (lets call him X). Stuff like, you're tall but I wish you were taller like X. You should do your hair like him etc.
{snip rest, it's redundant}

Dump. 100%. This is completely unacceptable. Don't ever speak to her again.

I should add that it's also 100% if you speak to her she's going to find a way to mess with your head and argue/debate in such a way to make it not her fault and make you feel shaitty about yourself. Don't fall into that trap. Don't discuss it. Don't speak to her or reply to messages in any way. She made a new bed and she's got to lie in it.

She's gone and good riddance for you.

 

[Skydiver43127]

Thanks very much for the responses guys. Maybe a bit more information is in order.

Nope, it was perfectly clear. The simple fact that you ask us why your girl kissed another guy is enough to assess the situation.

As said before, the meaning of the kiss depends on the frame. If you don't know the meaning of the kiss you don't know what the frame is. And if you don't know what the frame is then it's definitely not one where you're in control.

Sorry dude, but you need to face it in order to stop yourself from messing up next time. Girls need you to be in control and provide them emotion. If you do not they may starve for a while but they will eventually seek it elsewhere.

 

[drak_ool]

Trv26, you started another thread on this girl a week ago and everybody told you to dump her. I see that in January she broke up with you and you were pretty devastated. So i m guessing after that, she took you back and you gladly accepted?

trv, watever has been said in this thread about "the frame", you are　NOT in control with this girl. Everybody who advocated that you could still save your relationship based their view on your ability to control the frame. Unfortunately, you don't have this ability at this time.

but i guess you don t listen to any advice that s given to you...

 

[trv26]

I see that in January she broke up with you and you were pretty devastated. So i m guessing after that, she took you back and you gladly accepted?

Well she wanted to get back and I agreed. After initially trying to get back I had stopped contacting her. Eventually a month or so later she decided she wanted to get back. I don't think we had a major problem then. Just a silly argument that got a little out of control.

Also, this thread was different from the previous in the sense, I wanted to know how you guys would react in a similar situation rather than for my particular situation.

One more thing. My ex now says, she would never go out with that guy, after all that she did, even if her and I never got back. I can confirm from some of her friends that she really means it. Can someone explain the possible reasoning behind that.

 

[horaholic]

It was doomed before that kiss.

 

[trv26]

I know, but what about the confession, telling the guy she'd never go out with him etc. Doesn't this show she'd still rather be with me, and shed rather be with me?

Do u guys disagree that she's still interested.

 

[Weezy]

One more thing. My ex now says, she would never go out with that guy, after all that she did, even if her and I never got back.

You cannot judge anything she says. Only her actions.

 

[SkillzthatKillz]

Your girl kissed another man. Read that last sentence over until its truth grips you. I don’t care what her excuse is, people in LTRs shouldnt be doing that. I think its best to walk away.

 

[jocca]

Anyone who advocates staying with a woman who cheated on you is a fool and obviously doesnt have much value himself to begin with.

 

[sodbuster]

Women are like children. You are asking for a reason from a 5 year old and expect an answer? It seemed like a good idea at the time is going to be the answer. Nothing logical like a man. SO let her actions be your guide,not her words.

 

[drak_ool]

I know, but what about the confession, telling the guy she'd never go out with him etc.

what about the fvcking confession? she told you that she said that to him. So to give any weight to that confession, you need first to believe a girl who cheated on you. Second, even if she really said that, did she mean it?

trv, the point I was trying to get across is that you are wasting your time and everybody else's time at this moment. You are starting multiple threads, addressing the same issue from a slightly different angle each time, in the hope that somebody will give you the advice you want to hear.

here, i ll do that for you: Go ahead trv, it's ok to take her back, even though she lied to you, kissed another guy and... who knows what else she did that you don't know about? but it's ok, you can take her back because you can now control the frame in the relationship. Sure, you were never in control at any point, but now, all of a sudden because we tell you it's possible, you will take charge! You will stop overanalysing things, you will stand up to your woman and you will lay down the law on her. All of these things will happen overnight. You will change her perception of you, based on 2 years of observing you, overnight.

Based on your strong frame you will live happily ever after with this chick, who will never lie to you, kiss another guy or disrespect you in any other way. You can go ahead and put a down payment on that engagement ring, this is a quality girl you got!