how can people join cults and believe them?

[azanon]

I'm part of a cult of rednecks that watch Nascar and drink beer, farting into the cushions...

:crackup:

 

[Bible_Belt]

Let me ask you a theoretical question, Bible Belt, and give me a completely honest answer. Do you think its possible for me to go to school and become "an ordained minister"? If so, knowing what you do about me, do you think I would personally deserve to be referred to by such a designation? I guess since we're talking opinions here, you could say yes to that question, but you'd really have me scratching my head!

I think ordained just means appointed, so a congregation would have to appoint you. Surely they would ask if you believe in God before they appoint you minister, given that it is part of the job. I don't know what you mean by "deserve." A non-believer does not deserve to lead a belief-based organization. That is true for any group that advocates a cause. Hillary Clinton does not deserve to be the head of the NRA, but saying that about her is not a moral judgment, merely that she does not share the views of that group.

Peoples' beliefs can certainly change drastically with time. "Jane Roe" from Roe V Wade is named Norma McCorvey. After being the poster child for the pro-choice movement, she changed her views and is now a pro-life activist.

Regarding the topic of this thread, casting the term "cult" is simply a disagreement with an organization's values. I think mensa and the masons are cults, but that is because I disagree with the values for which they stand.

 

[azanon]

I guess what I was trying to say is captured by the phrase we've all heard before: "A wolf in sheep's clothing". To me, going only by that, I'd say the wolf is not a sheep necessarily because it looks like and makes sounds similar to a sheep. A wolf in sheep's clothing is 100% wolf.

Scientists simply do not learn anything about their world relying only on faith and hope. Doing so would be so antagonistic to what it means to be a scientist, that I think it would inherently demonstrate that said person "does not share the (critical and essential) views of that group". One of the very first things we went back over when I started my Masters in Biology was dive very deep into the Scientific Method; our method. If anyone in a room had a problem with that method, they knew exactly where the door was.

I know for certain there are many that share my opinion that there is no such thing as a "Christian Scientist".

 

[Latinoman]

The DC advocate lawyers are no exception; I am only guessing, but I'd bet many of them have 160-180 IQs, and everyone I met I think would be happy to admit that they believe in the Bible literally. There are some intelligent Christians out there.

You will be surprised how many idiots are in Law School. ANYONE can be a lawyer. You don't even have to be good at math or science.

 

[Michele l'Arcangelo]

Don't let me speak for you guys, but I'm certainly talking about cults (when I name any religion, i consider it a cult), and have been postulating why people believe them, including offering up some personal theories.

Since you made a request though, let me make one: If you don't have anything to add, would you kindly not post?

the OP is talking about specific *cults*. the majority of people don't consider the mainstream *religions* as cults.

don't turn a simple thread into a bash.

i don't recall what you been replying with, but at least you are "postulating why people believe them".

now on the other hand, most everyone else here is just trying to point out: "hey guys! i'm athiest! man those people are such idiots... i can't believe they believe in christianity".

what's more useful, me telling people to keep the thread on topic or everyone else thinking their opinion matters when it's not relevant to the topic?

at least my post attempts to move the thread forward and not have a bunch of spam that moves the topic nowhere.

 

[azanon]

the OP is talking about specific *cults*. the majority of people don't consider the mainstream *religions* as cults.

Since when have DJers been consistent with "the mainstream" people?

don't turn a simple thread into a bash.

As if the thread topic isn't a time bomb waiting to happen, and as if I'm the only one participating in a similar fashion. I'm not debating myself here.

i don't recall what you been replying with, but at least you are "postulating why people believe them".

now on the other hand, most everyone else here is just trying to point out: "hey guys! i'm athiest! man those people are such idiots... i can't believe they believe in christianity".

"Idiot" carries negative connotation, and when referring to someone else as an idiot, it is clearly a personal attack. I haven't called or implied Christians are idiots. I certainly suggested that they might be low on wisdom, or that they draw (some) conclusions about their world using illogical or irrational means (such as with faith or hope).

what's more useful, me telling people to keep the thread on topic or everyone else thinking their opinion matters when it's not relevant to the topic?

C. You realizing that everyone has been enough on topic to not warrant any "assistance" from captain-save-a-thread.

at least my post attempts to move the thread forward and not have a bunch of spam that moves the topic nowhere.

Again, if you have nothing to add, please don't post. So far, you've added nothing.

I find it ironic that it's actually you that causing the thread to steer.

 

[TheHumanist]

So you say Christians low on wisdom and draw illogical and irrational conclusions. Still sounds pretty negative and insulting to a Christian.

Sure faith and hope is not rational, but the way you are typing it (even on the internet without the tone of voice still carry some kind of voice, and it sounds condesending). The way you word it still sound like you calling them "idiots" for lack of a better word.


BTW, wisdom connotatively and denotatively means understanding, experience, and insight. A person who is able to know how to act in situations involving shades of gray. Wise Christians can be plenty wise, it is the evangelical one who is not open to new ideas while being imposing and hostiles to others that is the problematic ones.

 

[backbreaker]

So you say Christians low on wisdom and draw illogical and irrational conclusions. Still sounds pretty negative and insulting to a Christian.

Sure faith and hope is not rational, but the way you are typing it (even on the internet without the tone of voice still carry some kind of voice, and it sounds condesending). The way you word it still sound like you calling them "idiots" for lack of a better word.


BTW, wisdom connotatively and denotatively means understanding, experience, and insight. A person who is able to know how to act in situations involving shades of gray. Wise Christians can be plenty wise, it is the evangelical one who is not open to new ideas while being imposing and hostiles to others that is the problematic ones.

I think you missed the point.


I am sure anazon feels the same way as I do about this. and I am sure most athiests/agnostics do as well.


I have 100% NO problem with someone who when he or she comes of age, takes a long hard look, learns about different religons.. shoot.. I won't even go THAT far.. learns about THEIR religion, the ins and the outs, exactly how everything went down, and then takes that information and decides if they believe it.

NO problem whatsoever. None.

What I have a problem with is not the fact that "all people who are religous are stupid" because they believe in "faith" and not "logic"... it's that the illogical part is believing something THAT YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BOTHERED TO LEARN!

If a christan 1) knows his religion and 2) doesn't try to give me the 32oz bat every time we meet, slugging me with "god will save you" and crap like that every other sentence, we will have no problem.

My mom is a devout christan.. reads the bible from cover to cover once a year. She reads anything she can find on christanity. And she believes it. That's fine! Good for her.

I read that same information, and I just DONT' believe it. difference of opinion, simple as that.

 

[Paradox]

I read that same information, and I just DONT' believe it. difference of opinion, simple as that.

And herein lies the whole point and answer to the question.

Perspective, education, social upbringing, and free will all play a part is believing in one thing or another.

 

[backbreaker]

if that was it, i'd be fine paradox... most people believe because:

1) their families do
2) everyone else does
3) how else can you explain the stars, the skies, and everything somewhat complex.. i mean there just MUST be a god:crazy:

 

[j-flex]

the OP is talking about specific *cults*. the majority of people don't consider the mainstream *religions* as cults.

don't turn a simple thread into a bash.

i don't recall what you been replying with, but at least you are "postulating why people believe them".

now on the other hand, most everyone else here is just trying to point out: "hey guys! i'm athiest! man those people are such idiots... i can't believe they believe in christianity".

what's more useful, me telling people to keep the thread on topic or everyone else thinking their opinion matters when it's not relevant to the topic?

at least my post attempts to move the thread forward and not have a bunch of spam that moves the topic nowhere.

at least somebody that understands!!!!!!!!!!!

i can undestand why people believe in mainstream religions, but i cant understand why people believe in sects/cults.

this thread should be locked and started again with THIS in mind.

 

[azanon]

at least somebody that understands!!!!!!!!!!!

i can undestand why people believe in mainstream religions, but i cant understand why people believe in sects/cults.

this thread should be locked and started again with THIS in mind.

I think you're just too ahead of many of us. A great many of us, including myself, are at step one trying to figure out why intelligent people go for mainstream religions, much less cults.

 

[azanon]

If a christan 1) knows his religion and 2) doesn't try to give me the 32oz bat every time we meet, slugging me with "god will save you" and crap like that every other sentence, we will have no problem.

My mom is a devout christan.. reads the bible from cover to cover once a year. She reads anything she can find on christanity. And she believes it. That's fine! Good for her.

I read that same information, and I just DONT' believe it. difference of opinion, simple as that.

In practice in the real world, I'm essentially as diplomatic as backbreaker described here. But since this is the internet, ... truth is there's a certain level of intellectual respect that I could never give these people. I can like a Christian and I have many Christian friends. Heck, I like Bible Belt. But they're just going to be a rung lower on my virtual, intellectual pedestal than a freethinker. To me, a freethinker is someone who's completely broken free of the religious matrix. I have no choice but to respect these people the most.

 

[Michele l'Arcangelo]

I think you're just too ahead of many of us. A great many of us, including myself, are at step one trying to figure out why intelligent people go for mainstream religions, much less cults.

the three mainstream religions (islam, judiasm, christianity) go far back and intertwine to some degree.

cults are modern "religions" that are usually a perverted version of a mainstream religion (usually christianity) to confuse members with some references to the bible, etc.

from what i've seen and the type of things i hear from god-loving people, the reason why people believe religions aren't because they see or hear any facts. they're mainly fearful of not going to heaven. but of course, that doesn't represent 100% of the people.

if you heard of Pascal's Wager, you'd understand what i mean. wiki it.

 

[TheHumanist]

In practice in the real world, I'm essentially as diplomatic as backbreaker described here. But since this is the internet, ... truth is there's a certain level of intellectual respect that I could never give these people. I can like a Christian and I have many Christian friends. Heck, I like Bible Belt. But they're just going to be a rung lower on my virtual, intellectual pedestal than a freethinker. To me, a freethinker is someone who's completely broken free of the religious matrix. I have no choice but to respect these people the most.

That what the disagreement is about from the beginning. Everyone (or so I believe) disagree with you not because of there can be intellegent religous people or wise or rational for when we point that you, you say we are missing the point, we see the point. At least to me, on the rung of the intellectual pedestal, I'm not going to knock down a notch for a belief. I'm not going to say they in the "religous matrix" which means they are in a prison they cannot see and we can see more.

A person should be knocked down a notch on the intellectual pedestal when they become unreasonable, think of the stereotype of the evangelical Christian who refuse to acknowledge anyone but another evangelical. If Pope John Paul II was still alive, I will not see him as an intellectual underling, I would if I found him to act like the streotypical Evengelical, but he didn't.

A freethinker is a person to be respected most, but a freethinker does not have to be an atheist or an agnostic.

 

[Bible_Belt]

"religious matrix," lol. Any belief system could be made into a matrix metaphor.

Azanon, I remember that you are very successful financially. I respect that a lot. Did you do so without a stint in the academic world? Good for you if you did not have to get an advanced degree to do well, but I am asking because you seem distant from the way that Christianity is a fringe belief on any college campus. It certainly does not fit with the matrix metaphor there.

When the activist-wannabees convinced my law school to try to kick out the Christian student organization, because by nature of our existence we must be anti-gay, we had to sue the school to keep the organization alive. That quiet group of people never bothered anybody, and never turned anyone away, but the leader of the gay rights group read an article in a magazine about other schools doing the same thing, and then decided that she had been discriminated against. Of course she never asked to join or went to a meeting. But the school kicked out the club anyway - a lot of the faculty and staff are gay. So I have, as a lowly law student, sued the dean of my law school. I was ostracized more than a little about that; law students are a follow-the-herd type of crowd. I am filling out an application to take the bar right now, and I have to tell the bar association all about it, like I did something wrong.

Remember the DC lawyers I mentioned? They flew in and took our case. They kept losing in district, but winning the appeal. We eventually won, and the appeals court opinion that gave us our win was written by one of the most respected judges in the country. I have heard of our case being taught as part of the course material at other law schools. The gay rights activists ended up with an influential court precedent written by a top judge that opposes their cause instead of furthering it.

Azanon, am I a sheep because I sued the dean of my law school and won? Am I caught inside the matrix and incapable of free thought?

 

[Latinoman]

Personally,

I believe is very pretendious and ignorant to try and convince others that their internal believes (values) are wrong.


Religion is something that is VERY PERSONAL. We have no right to tell others about what to believe in. We can share our views...but not force those views into others.

 

[backbreaker]

the three mainstream religions (islam, judiasm, christianity) go far back and intertwine to some degree.

boy that's the understatement of the year.


Christainity Derived from Judasim and Islam derived from Christanity.

one stupid ****tard of a girl told me that islam's worship the moon god. stupid ****. that's what is wrong with people.

Muslims, Jews and Christans worship the exact same petty, unforgiving, vindictive bloodturstry homophobic racist genocidal god \

Most people dont' even realize that Jesus was (supposedly) a Jew and even LESs people realize that Muhammaed was actually a christan, until he spawn off Islam.

 

[Latinoman]

I believe there is a being or whatever...that some call God. But I don't believe in any dogma. I guess that makes me adogmatic. I don't follow organized religions or cults.

 

[KontrollerX]

Actually Islam does have pagan origins in moon worship.

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-moon-god.htm

If you've ever watched the movie Kingdom of Heaven you see the Islamic banners featuring the crescent moon which are a remnant of this and hell I think even their temples today adorn the crescent moon.

http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/

And yes Jack Chick is an incredible far gone Christian loon but that just means he is going to examine other religions with an incredibly powerful microscope to get the truths surrounding them so there is his great writeup on Islam for anyone interested in its true origins in addition to the other link I already posted.

I believe he goes into some depth about how Islam simply found a way to connect itself to Judaism and Christianity as a means to attain more legitimacy for itself and that it really has no connection at all.

Its a moon god worship that tried to be more than it is basically and succeeded in fooling a lot of people into believing it has attachments to Abraham and the Bible.