How about a "Transition to Relationships" Forum

[Chubbs Peterson]

Chubbs here.

Been gone for a while. I was in what was mostly a good relationship. While I was in the relationship, I used a lot of what I learned here at Sosuave....but only up to a point.

The good part was that I had to figure out a lot of things out on my own. I rather enjoyed the challenge and the success that it brought. But my relationship started going in directions that I could not anticipate, I didn't feel that I could turn to Sosuave.

After a while, I'd like to think that many DJs would eventually start seeing someone for longer than 3 months. At that point there are questions and situations that come up which this website is tradionally weak to address. And that's part of the reason many people LEAVE the site. The site doesn't GROW WITH US.

I don't know how popular it would be, but I sure would've loved to have a place to go to figure out how to transition successfully into a relationship, and how to maintain it for more than a few months.

 

[MVPlaya]

You're Missing the Point

Hey Chubbs.

I'm glad that SoSuave.com helped you and allowed you to get into relations. I think it is less fortunate that you were worried about SoSuave.com guidance when it took you "in directions that [you] could not anticipate." What you seem to miss is that SoSuave.com is about getting us of our butts and onto our feet. You shouldn't be looking at SoSuave every time you have a problem.

I'm glad you state that you "enjoyed the challenge and success that [the relationship] brought," because that is what SoSuave is about. We are not here to give you a foolproof guide to getting women. The truth is, there are no rules. SoSuave is here to help you dispel common myths and go with what works. But "to a point."

After a while, the techniques we have given you should only be a foundation for who you are, not a continuing blue print for who you are going to be. When you decide to get serious with someone, you should not be looking towards SoSuave at every moment you are in doubt. SoSuave is to help us get our feet of the ground and enjoy ourselves with our "game" as long as we are not romantically committed. But if you do decide to make that extra step, you should not be looking for SoSuave to fill the gaps. Your relationship should be about you.

You state that you want a "transition to relationship" forum, what you miss is that a transition is just that: a transition. Once you transition into a relationship you have to learn to become a man who makes decisions on his own and you have to have a relationship based on you, not your games. If DJs leave this site, its for only two reasons. Either they did not have the courage to become Don Juans, or they have kicked away their crutches.

SoSuave is a remedy for our worries, not an eternal precription. If you have kicked your AFCish ways, why are you still here? Get out there and experience the world on your own and learn to enjoy it, I know you have in the past. If your problem is that you are not a complete Don Juan, that is OK, you still have learning to do. But if you think there are DJs out there who "LEAVE this site" because it "doesn't GROW WITH [them]" then you are missing the point. They left because they have become the people they want to be and have no more need for us... and I am glad for that. Its not our goal to have all the players come back here for no reason ad infinitum... we're here to have Don Juans teach AFCs the way, not to brag to other Don Juans. So, if you still want to learn, we have our general discussion area, but if you are no longer an AFC, then move your mouse to the top right of the screen and click that box marked X because you don't really need us anymore.

MVPlaya

 

[prosemont]

hey Chubbs, good to see you. I think you should have (and still should) post about your relationship and it's unexpected turns. I think you'll be surprised to learn that there are many of us with lots of relationship experience who just don't talk about it because, well, I just don't want to muse aimlessly about relationships without a fact pattern and questions asked. You'll find, though, that there are some older guys on here, too, with experience on all sorts of LTR and marriage, etc. You're "unique" situation probably has been seen before in some variation on the theme and some insight can be offered.

Give it a shot.

 

[Chubbs Peterson]

MVPlaya, you think I missed the point? I did state that I enjoyed figuring things out on my own. I did realize that the DJ rules could not be set in stone after a point, and what was exciting was trying to figure out what to apply and when. I don't think I'm looking for crutches, but i do think that a relationship forum by INFORMED individuals would add another layer of understanding. If would serve to show that "once you know everything" you still don't know anything. if anything, i think the existence of a relationship forum would give the reformed AFCs the understanding that topics concerning being a "man" has a lot more development. A relationship forum would be like going to grad school, or continuing education.

The thing is, I don't think it's off-base to state that true "relationships" are a significantly different challenge, and are much more difficult to navigate because there are alot of unique circumstances that become involved. It would be great to acknowledge this fact on this site-- a place which seems to primarily be preoccupied with only getting into chicks pants. (not that I have a problem with that!)


Prosemont,
Good to see you hear as well. It's great to be welcomed back and I'm pleased to see that you are here to offer your valuable insight.

Part of my lack of enthusiasm for writing "relationship" posts is that 9 times out of 10 I anticipate the typical "enlightened-newbie" responses...responses that stick hard and fast to the DJ rules, but have no depth beyond that. Maybe I'm being presumptuous, but it seems most people here are AFC's who've become /becoming DJs and are only skimming the surface. So their answers tend to be... lacking depth. DJing is essentially about self improvement and how it builds attraction. After learning about attraction, there's... there's... there's not much else folks know what to say, because to say any more requires a profound understanding of relationships which can only come after experience. You know, sometimes you SHOULD call a girl after you've broken up, sometimes buying her gifts DOES work, etc. People need to understand that DJ rules are made to be broken.

The "successful" DJ will find after a while that his DJ skills will eventually always lead him into relationship territory. At that point he must make a decision to pursue or cut it off. I'm guessing that most of the reformed AFC's here would really like to form relationships with femalses, after they go through their newfound "stud" phase. In my opinion, that explains why sosuave.com has more than 9000 members, but only as many as 150 have ever logged on at once. Most of them have probably found the content of the site to be limiting, even though the knowledge base may be out there waiting to be tapped.

 

[prosemont]

Chubbs, just as a very general guideline, I've found that in all LTRs, there are two key issues that you and only you can determine and which guide every action you make:

1. What's her interest level? What was it when you first started the relationship? I've found that the very first interest level read after, say, a couple weeks of starting to see a woman is the most accurate one you can get and the one that always comes back, one way or another. There may be spikes or increases in it (or decreases) over the way you are handling her, but that true interest level is the baseline. So, if you find that she has high IL, you can always maintain that relationship by shifting gears and changing your own actions; if, however, her IL was low (read: LOWER THAN YOURS IN HER), you will continually have a problem and have to gyrate and do all kinds of things to keep and maintain that girl. You will, essentially, need to continue to reinvent yourself. That is exhausting and, in the end, may not even work.

This all falls into the category of "who loves more than whom." The one with the lesser interest/caring/love/whateveryouwanttocallit has the power.

You know in your heart of hearts who holds what in your relationship. Acknowledge it and decide your course of action.

2. What are you willing to put up with? Even if she's got the higher IL, she may just say things, do, think, and act, in ways that you just aren't willing to put up with. You can train and retrain her, but again, the baseline is what it is. She'll always lean towards that baseline (the way she would naturally be) and you will need to be vigilant and disciplined in retraining her while also objectifying the situation in your mind so that you are not emotionally sucked into her mode of living. If you need to retrain, however, ask yourself whether it can EVEN BE DONE with a particular girl and whether that HUGE amount of work and investment is worth it. In short, again, what are you willing to put up with?

Hope this helps in a general way.

 

[Chubbs Peterson]

Wow. Thanks. This is great food for thought.

My situation with her has been unusual, as one month was just casual dating, the next maybe 4 months was a long distance relationship, where we saw each other every month or so for a few days, but talked all the time. And then the last two months we've actually been around each other. And during one of those months, she actually stayed with me (loooong story). So it's a little hard to acertain exactly when the true "mid-point" of relationship was/is.

I would say that her IL has always seemed very high. In the beginning it was off the meter. Skyrocket style. She's a very needy person, and I would often refuse to play into her neediness. So that kept me in the game.

During the time that she was staying with me, her IL seemed strong, but noticeably lower than before. But still high.

To sort of reply to the part where you ask "what am I willing to put up with?"...

My mistake was in trying to retrain her from NOT being so needy... that's the only thing that sort of annoyed me. She has a lot of ambitions and a direction whe wants in life. I LOVE that about her. But she doesn't take the steps to DO what she wants. Instead she retreats into the comfort of neediness. Add to this the fact that she had indicated to me that she saw me as a potential long-term and even father. Yet she doesn't display any inclination that she'd make a good potential LTR or wife or mother or whatever... She doesn't do anything for herself in terms of basic "housetraining" . She's a slob, she doesn't know how to cook nor want to, she doesn't show any inclination about how to maintain a home. But the larger picture is that these things make her think she thinks she's incapable of doing anything for herself even though her history shows that she HAS in fact done a lot of remarkable things for someone her age, male or female. Instead, she reminds me A LOT like Jessica Simpson on TV, if you've ever seen that show. Granted, she's only 23 and too young to be thinking of those things, but to me her lack of taking those kinds of "female" responsibilities just shows that she's spoiled. She was just not raised any other way. The twist is that this is not only one thing that I don't like about her, it's something that she has admitted she doesn't like about herself.

And if she's got a problem, then that's her problem. I'm not going to concern myself with it. When we are in a relationship however, it becomes our problem. And then it needs to be addressed.

So if we were to further a relationship the way thing were/are, she'd be just dead weight until she decides to deal with her issue. I'd be carrying the whole relationship, both the "male" and "female" duties. And there's no guarantee that things would change. There has to be and understanding of roles within a relationship, and she wouldn't adhere to them. Or rather, she didn't know how. That's not gonna work for me, her, us, and in my own way I let her know that AND I let her know that if she wants to pursue her interests and and her goals, she needs to get her act together. And THAT was when she started acting distant to me. So maybe that was my "mistake" even though it was done with her well being in mind. But I had to draw the line, and now she's on the fence.

The only thing I can do is step back and try to "talk her down" over time. I've told her how she's not a victim, how she's accomplished all these great things in the past that contradict what she seems to think of herself. And that made her feel better and a little closer to me and probably the reason why she even calls occasionally. This has been the only victory I've had with her since putting the brakes on the relationship.

I put up with a lot, and my threshold with her was suprisingly high. I think we really "fit" well, other people say we fit well, and even she was suprised at how well we got along, and that's why I don't think this relationship should be discarded.

 

[Survivor]

It sounds like you did what any decent mature man would do. You saw something in her character that you felt jeapardized any chance of an LTR and made it known.

Unfortunately, some women do not respond well to ultimatums. You told her she had to get her act together if she wants anything long term with you, and you were totally justified in doing so. Don't feel guilty about that.

People change throughout the period of an LTR. Here's hoping your girl changes for the better.

Welcome back to the forum, Chubbs.

 

[iqqi]

this SHOULD be moved to discussion.

 

[SoSuave.com]

Okay.

 

[CLOONEY]

Hey Chubbs welcome back, I will have a look at this thread later when I get time, and try to give you my insight. I see Prosemont has answered, he is probably the best on the boards for relationship advice, but yeah u will prob also get some newbies saying everytime something doesnt work out NEXT, rules rules rules.

take it easy

 

[iqqi]

interesting, interesting....

yes, the lack of depth in some of the responses can be disheartening, i know just what you mean. and you also come for perspective and deeper understanding, i alos come from that angle. a new forum would be interesting, but probaly pretty empty, that is why you are stuck (so to speak) with general discussion.

i don't know what i think about your ultimatum. was it really bad? or were you being too harsh and picky? growth is hard when it is hard, ya know? were you all nag with no backing? do you honestly feel like you picked the right battle with this one?

the worst feeling would be down the line she has her sh!t together, but doesn't feel any love for you because you just kicked her while she was down. it is called "being there". you can't be just a fairweather friend.

am i way off here?

 

[JohnJones]

Chubbs: I agree about the depth issue. When you resurfaced last week, I think I remembered the thread from last spring. Sorry that it did not turn out another way.

I have the same issue: because most of what I am seeing from my g/f (5 mos. exclusive) is new I would want to see other folks' experiences (after she says she is giving you her heart, her body, etc., I am not sure if mystery and the other "techniques" are the best course).

 

[WestCoaster]

My friend says DJ works even in a marriage

One of my married friends (poor guy!) says you must maintain DJism even in a marriage. You must be a little mysterious and a challenge at times, don't get walked on, develop your own interests (even if your wife doesn't like them), and work on yourself.

I would say the principles of DJism apply at all stages of relationships and even marriages. Why? Because contrary to a lot of people here, DJism isn't solely about getting women, it's about self-improvement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the principles of DJism are this:

1. Be the best MAN you can be.
2. Work on yourself, your career, intellectual level, fitness level.
3. Do not let women be the center of your universe.
4. Do not let women control your emotions.
5. Accept rejection like a MAN and move on.
6. That there are plenty of fish in the sea and if one is stale, you move on. I.E., no one woman is the end-all, though one might eventually be one to settle down with.
7. Marriage isn't the end-all, but it's not totally bad either.

These principles are good for every relationship. The little tactics, tricks and moves are like learning a cross-over dribble, or behind the back pass. They're fine, but only if you know the basic fundamentals first.

* Best to read the articles and Hall of Fame and use this message board as a conversation piece and for a little advice. The articles are the "coaches" and "fundamentals."

 

[Ricky]

Chubbs good to see you back. I agree more needs to be said on here about LTRS

I myself have been in one for 2 years now and survived a couple of breakups. If i had followed all the advice on here I would have nexted her a very long time ago.