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Homoseuxality is natural

ShortTimer

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I actually submitted this paper for my philosophy class.

Anyhow, I see you 'tards are getting way off track and some of you really have your heads up your asses when it comes to reality. Thought I'd educate some of the dumb****s on this site. You're not gonna see results until you GET REAL about ****. The homophobes are dragging **** down and need to be curbed now before their assanine theories get out of control.

Anyhow, on with my paper:


Contrary to certain popular claims, homosexuality is not an unnatural behavior. First we should examine what exactly is meant when opponents claim homosexuality is “unnatural.” From this we can examine the argument that nature does not intend for this use of our sexual organs. Finally we can ponder what, if any evolutionary advantage homosexuality offers.

Opponents have argued that homosexuality is “unnatural,” but what exactly do they mean when they say this? This argument would seem on the surface to be ridiculous. Nothing unnatural can exist, that is true by the very definition of the world “natural.” So perhaps that is not what the unnaturalness argument is saying. Instead perhaps what is meant is “when we say something is not natural, we mean that it is a product of human artifice (Gruen, Sex, 45).” This would seem more reasonable but yet it would also be untrue of homosexuality. Biologists have observed in the field homosexual acts in various other species and have observed such acts in our closest animal cousins such as the chimpanzee. While certainly it does happen in the animal kingdom and also in humans it would seem this behavior is not the norm. Could then we point to it and say it is perverse? While “the concept of perversion can hardly fail to be evaluative in some sense” we should remember that a statistical deviance in and of itself is no reason to condemn anything morally. Perhaps then the unnaturalness argument is trying to tell us that we are somehow using our organs wrong. Some point out that the purpose of the sexual organs is obviously reproduction. Well, those who have had any interaction with their own sexual organs certainly realize that those same organs also obviously bring pleasure in various forms. It would seem a disservice to finding the truth if we should ignore either of these things. While sexual organs can be used for reproduction, it is also true that is not their only function. So if a sexual organs purpose is both reproduction and pleasure, among other possible uses, then this context also makes homosexual acts within the natural use of the organs. So it would seem the unnaturalness argument is saying that nature did not intend for these organs to be used in such a manner (Trevas, Sex 239).

From this it could then be counter-argued that while homosexuality might be natural in the fact that it occurs in reality it is actually a misuse of nature. Perhaps then we should view homosexuality as a square peg in a round hole problem. Our sexual organs can certainly bring pleasure but other body parts do that as well. The only thing our sexual organs do that no other organs do is serve the function of reproduction. From this would seem that should homosexuality be embraced then if enough members of our species practiced it we would “promulgate the termination of the human race.” This would seem reasonable but the error arises because of how nature is commonly understood. We can say sex organs, or any organs for that matter, are intended for a certain use but we would be wrong. Evolution, or Nature in general, does not “intend” anything. This can be a very deceptive trap. For nature, or evolution to “intend” anything there must be some conscious force behind it. As yet we have found no consciousness to either of these phenomenon. Perhaps this would seem to be the splitting of hairs but this is actually illuminating to our subject. If nature does not “intend” for anything then nothing has a “natural” use. Of course one could say “but if nature did intend for something...” but that’s the point: nature does not intend for anything. Continuing to think about the subject in such a way as intend or not-intend is simply incorrect. Or perhaps we could take another route to this. If one can still not accept that nature does not intend anything as people intend things then homosexuality should be viewed as what nature intended. If our organs have function because of what nature intended then so too homosexuality must have some function because nature gave rise to it (Trevas, Sex, 155).

So if nature did “intend” for homosexuality to exits then what purpose does it serve? A better way of asking this question is “what evolutionary advantage does homosexuality offer?” To many looking for an advantage to homosexuality would seem to be a contradictory notion. But on this issue we should attempt to wrap our brains around the subject before dismissing it out of hand. In prison we see homosexual behavior practiced by those who would not normally view themselves as homosexual. So in this case at least we can see one adaptive function of homosexuality. In the absence of access to the other gender homosexuality would offer an outlet for the human sex drive. With this as a starting point we could then imagine temporary homosexual behavior in young males and females who live in a society where female virginity is prized. While they do not live in a literal prison their culture would restrict the access to the other gender and thus their sex drives could be expressed temporarily in this fashion. While these two examples are not the only conceivable circumstances we can see from them the general principle that temporary homosexual behavior can be adaptive. Temporary homosexual behavior is obviously not the only kind and now we should turn to permanent homosexual behavior. Permanent homosexuals have removed themselves from the so-called mating game. While this would seem maladaptive for there own genes could this behavior somehow help others? We can see other examples of those who have removed themselves from the mating game in the form of various religion’s priests and other holy men and women. They are removed from regular reproduction but yet serve what many see as a beneficial social function. So perhaps homosexuals have evolved in humans to be a support mechanism for those who do reproduce. This and the next argument are both treading in dangerous waters. The last could be used by some to promote a kind of homosexual slavery and the next eugenics against homosexuals. Permanent homosexuals, if allowed to practice as they desire shall not reproduce. Perhaps this is another intent of nature. Perhaps those who would be permanent homosexuals are not “meant” to reproduce. I fear this last argument could be construed as a condemnation of homosexuals in the sense that “nature found them unfit to reproduce” or “your genes are broken.” This is not the intent of that line of exploration, it is simply a possible reason why things are they way they are. Whatever the case it would not seem reasonable to say “it is simply bad science to go on arguing that human homosexual activity is biologically unnatural (Trevas, Sex, 266).”

Once we understood what exactly was meant by “unnatural” we could then dissect this argument against homosexuality properly. Then we examined if homosexuality was an improper use of sexual organs and found no solid ground there. Finally we examined some possibilities as to what evolutionary advantage homosexuality offers. Thus we can now, rather safely I would say, come to the conclusion that the argument that homosexuality is unnatural is itself incorrect.
 

TheRelic

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Seems to dilly dally around minor technicals. The word natural does not express what those opposing homosexuality actually mean. The essay seems to have a focus on dissecting the english language.

I make a knife, I kill someone that has been picking on my brother all his life.

Is that morally, socially, culturally acceptable, given that under the free spirited guise your essay takes, could be considered perfectly natural?
 

earthshyne

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Homosexuality abounds in the natural world. So, in a sense, I guess it's natural.

But cannibalism abounds in the natural world as well.

So just because it's "natural" does not mean anything, really.

There are no moral messages in nature. Never have been. Nature is magnificent and complex and strange and wonderful... but it's got nothing to do with morality.

FYI... homosexuality is natural in human beings as well. What is unnatural is the notion of using that as an example of subjugating others. You may as well subjugate people based on the colour of their hair.
 

TheRelic

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There are no moral messages in nature. Never have been. Nature is magnificent and complex and strange and wonderful... but it's got nothing to do with morality.
Irrelevant, and wrong.

At a more basic level, our morals stem directly from nature.

The fundamentals are what keep the ship afloat.
 

penkitten

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Originally posted by earthshyne
You may as well subjugate people based on the colour of their hair.
Or their skin...

but we would never do that.
 

earthshyne

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Julian

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who gives a dirty damn
 

TheRelic

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If I ever finish this homework and have a spare hour, sure, i'll read. But I can't see it swaying me that much.
 

ShortTimer

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Quite often when I post on the internet I get the feeling that people don't understand what I'm trying to say. Thank you all for your responses because now I know the truth: you really are the unwashed masses and I really am better than you. LOL

This is so hilarious: "pseudo-science" indeed. I'm sure if there was any pseudo-science in there my PhD philosophy professor would have noticed it and not given me a 97% for a grade.

Thank you for reaffirming to me that I really am better than everyone else. :crackup:
 

TheRelic

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Originally posted by ShortTimer
Quite often when I post on the internet I get the feeling that people don't understand what I'm trying to say. Thank you all for your responses because now I know the truth: you really are the unwashed masses and I really am better than you. LOL

This is so hilarious: "pseudo-science" indeed. I'm sure if there was any pseudo-science in there my PhD philosophy professor would have noticed it and not given me a 97% for a grade.

Thank you for reaffirming to me that I really am better than everyone else. :crackup:

:crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

You're a wanker!!

:crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

Twit.

@Joe - This was an attention whoring post. Unfortunately, he got what he wanted ;).
 

Gus

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I'm sure if there was any pseudo-science in there my PhD philosophy professor would have noticed it and not given me a 97% for a grade.
You mean you actually trust your professor? My, oh my....

Much less a philosophy professor, who tend to be so out of touch with reality that it's sickening.
 

Joe The Homophobe

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What really causes homosexuality? It is not such a widely known fact that farmers are pumping estrogen into chickens and the same goes for many other foods. Estrogen being the female hormone, testostorone the male hormone. Homosexuals have higher levels of estrogen, which should explain why they act and sound feminine. The estrogen is causing a mental inbalance whereby the male thinks like a female (since he has more estrogen than testostorone).

If 90% of the population found out today about the chemicals being pumped into their foods, there would be an uprising tomorrow and we would probably see some people in the food industry getting hanged on the spot.

If you are interested on the subject of chemicals you come in contact with in everyday life and how to protect yourself, check out the link below

http://www.drrapp.com

here is an example from Dr Rapp's site

Let's look at a few examples:•Fragrances can contain urine and feces. They can be toxic and cause allergies and changes in behavior.
•Artificial colors or dyes come from coal tar and can contain heavy metals and deposit toxins in the skin. Some cause cancer.
•Mineral oil in baby oil sounds safe but it clogs skin pores like a plastic coating. It can lead to premature aging of the skin and cause acne.
•Sodium lauryl sulfate is one such product. It is in 90% of personal care products that foam. It can damage cell membranes and possibly cause hair loss. It is commonly found in shampoos. It is used as an engine degreaser and in car washes.
•Another substance is called propylene glycol (PG). This is in shampoos, styling gels, body lotions and creams. It is actually antifreeze. Propylene glycol (PG.) weakens skin cells. It’s so toxic those who work with it must wear gloves and goggles.
•Cocamide DEA is another substance found in shampoo and bath products. In mice, it can cause liver and kidney cancer.
•There is another category called alpha hydroxyl acids. Substances such as glycolic, citric, lactic, malic, or hydroxycaprylic acid can be found in body creams and sometimes in shampoos. These can cause redness, burning, bleeding, blistering, itching, rashes and discoloration. They increase sun sensitivity and therefore the risk of skin cancer.
•Polyelthylene glycol (PEG) can cause dry skin, cancer and aging. It is used in oven cleaners and can be in many body products.
•Another substance is isopropyl alcohol. This strips the skin of its natural protection barrier.
•Mono, di or tri ethanol amines disrupt hormones and produce cancer causing substances such as nitrates and nitro amines that are known to damage the liver and kidney.
•DMDM hydantoin and imidazolidinyl urea can release formaldehyde and cause joint pain, heart irregularities and a weakened immune system.
•Butyl toluene is used as a fragrance fixative so aromas last longer. One is a nitro-musk compound known to cause weak hind legs in rats and serious nervous system problems and brain cell damage. What does it do to humans?
•Tricolsan is similar to the pesticide\defoliant Agent Orange and can cause decreased fertility, birth defects and damage to major body organs.
•Fluorides are in most toothpaste's used today. Read the labels. The government has stated it can be unsafe. Children under 7 should not swallow more than a pea-sized amount. If it were unsafe for a small child, why would it be safe in your toothpaste or water, for you or your other children?
 

Joe The Homophobe

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Originally posted by Sazuki
I appreciate that link. I'm not the paranoid conspiracy guy, but there is defenitely things going on with the mass produced food that some people like to keep a secret.
No conspiracy about it. She is a doctor who has been researching this stuff longer than most of us have been alive. She only tells you the obvious stuff you never thought about. How many here have actually thought about the chemicals in foods and other products?

for examle we have toothpaste, have you ever read the label on the back of your toothpaste? if you swallow toothpase you have to call poison control center immediately! you are basically putting poison in your mouth to wash your teeth! what about shampoo? ever thought about what chemicals are actually in shampoo and coming in contact with your hair and skin?? shower gel? What about hair gel? i bet one has a lot to do with hair loss. All this stuff is simple and obvious but most people never stop to think about it.

I listened to dr rapp on the radio for a couple of hours and learned a lot. Here is a weird one that you probably haven't heard about. The material in diapers has been studied and according to research it can have feminizing effects on children. The implications are bad knowing the childs genitals are coming in contact with this stuff, so that is just 1 more way young boys are feminized.
 

Interpol

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Originally posted by Joe The Homophobe

for examle we have toothpaste, have you ever read the label on the back of your toothpaste? if you swallow toothpase you have to call poison control center immediately! you are basically putting poison in your mouth to wash your teeth! what about shampoo? ever thought about what chemicals are actually in shampoo and coming in contact with your hair and skin?? shower gel? What about hair gel? i bet one has a lot to do with hair loss. All this stuff is simple and obvious but most people never stop to think about it.
Those examples are meaningless. If you drink an entire bottle of cough medicine, you're gonna need to call the poison control center as well. Does that mean it's not safe to take the recommended dosage when you have a cough? Of course not. There are many things that are beneficial in small doses and dangerous in large ones.
 

Joe The Homophobe

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Originally posted by Interpol
Those examples are meaningless. If you drink an entire bottle of cough medicine, you're gonna need to call the poison control center as well. Does that mean it's not safe to take the recommended dosage when you have a cough? Of course not. There are many things that are beneficial in small doses and dangerous in large ones.
Let us examine that. So you have to call poison control center if you take too much of it? what does this tell you about the chemicals in these products??

let me give you an example. There is this famous study done by a doctor (dr rapp talked about it) who took in children with attention disorders and similar problems in a clinic. He had the children eat a healthy diet for about a month or two and the children were cured of their problems. He didn't do nothing fancy, just a healthy diet with lots of vitamins and essentials without all the junk kids eat and we all eat. It is that same junk (processed foods) that cause these problems.

So it works like this (using the attendion disorder example). The food industry destroys the brain of your child, then you go to the doctor because your child has attention deficit disorder and is getting bad grades in school, and what does he do? he tells you to put him on ritalin (linked to many suicides) or other drugs, further putting chemicals in and further destroying your child, weakening him and turning him into a zombie (what ritalin does to kids)

I have to clarify something here for the newbies. What are the bad foods? we have one example which is the ready to eat foods (frozen foods). Because people are so busy these days (or are just lazy) they just go to the market and buy foods that are already made and just need to be microwaved. These foods have lost lots of vitamins/minerals and essentical nutrients that your body needs to function properly. You wonder why you feel weak and tired, or you don't have lots of energy, you only need to look at what you're eating.

Not only that but this may be schoking to most, according to studies, microwaving food has been proven to alter foods in a way that you get even less vitamins/minerals/nutrients. Go ahead and google info on this (ill try to find some articles and post em here later). So you though we were in a bad situation with frozen foods, now you know that microwaving them makes them even worse! so you take something which already wasn't that good for you healthwise and you make it worse! and you wonder why there are millions of children on drugs for mental disorders and stuff like that! they don't take in the necessary vitamins and nutrients their body needs because their parents take em to mcdonalds or other junk food places 4 times a week, the kids eat very few fruits to the point more video games are sold here in the USA than fresh fruit, according to recent studies, and when the mom makes food she buys it frozen and microwaves them. Of course I can go on an on about this and talk about them drinking soda everyday (canned soda is linked to a mental illness) and of course all this stuff makes you fat as well. This is the common way that people eat for millions of people everyday!

Something interesting I read the other day, the leader of the nation of islam in the USA actually tells his followers to throw away their microwaves. That guy has read the studies..

for example if you buy frozen burritos all the time, it is more healthy for you if you buy the tortillas, buy the regular beans (not canned, which is also linked to an illness) and spend the time making the burritos by yourself rather than buying them frozen. THe same goes for all types of frozen foods, whether it be lasagna, to those frozen dinners, anything. Frozen foods are bad enough, and then you have to microwave them and it gets worse. Most people are so stupid they think they are eating healthy because they bought a frozen dinner that has some vegetables in it! everything is healthier if you make it fresh and cook it without a microwave

This is just some of the stuff I remember from listening to that interview of Dr Rapp (which was a few years ago). If you really want to know about this stuff and eating healthy, I say you read her book.

http://www.drrapp.com

I always remember what Chris Rock said in one of his shows, "the money is in the medicine, not the cure."
 
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ShortTimer

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Originally posted by TheRelic
You're a wanker!!
In fact I was wanking off to some phone sex with a certain lady I know just before reading this... so I guess I do "wank." Poor girl was stuck at work, too bad I couldn't have helped her in person.

Originally posted by TheRelic
Twit.
Originally posted by TheRelic
If I ever finish this homework and have a spare hour, sure, i'll read. But I can't see it swaying me that much.
You didn't even read my post before your first resopnce and I'm the twit? can't... stop... :crackup:

Originally posted by TheRelic
@Joe - This was an attention whoring post. Unfortunately, he got what he wanted ;).
Nah, I just wanted to see if there was anyone who would respoond on this site with an actual brain. I see there isn't, not that I'm shocked mind you.

Originally posted by Sazuki
Behaviour is never adaptive
I am presuming homosexuality has some biological basis since people report "always having felt that way" and other such things. Besides you are misunderstanding Lamark. He is saying "behavior creates evolution" and I'm saying "evolution creates behavior." Those are not at all the same thing so I'm not making the mistake of thinking Giraffes stretched their necks so their necks got longer.

Also, all of our behavior is determined by our biology; which is subject to evolution. You don't really think that's free will you're exercising do you?
 

Luscious

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All I have to say is "no homo", dude.

No freakin' homo.
 

McKindley

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(you wrote) Nothing unnatural can exist, that is true by the very definition of the world “natural.” - - not true. Doritos exist, but are not natural (though they are made up, in base, by natural components, doritos are not, in of themselves, natural.)

it is true that we have seen homosexuality in chimps, however typically in such cases as females are not present (look at desmond morris' "the naked ape" for some zoological evidence to this point)

(you wrote) we should remember that a statistical deviance in and of itself is no reason to condemn anything morally - - your paper is not about morality, it is about the naturalness of homosexuality. Little statements like this make the paper feel meandering.

For nature, or evolution to “intend” anything there must be some conscious force behind it. - - - not true. You forget to take into account the teleological (or, goal oriented) argument. To say that nature (ie, evolution) can not intend anything because it is not conscious is to say that evolution is impossible (which may be true, but a lot of your paper is contingent on evolution being a matter of fact).

Furthermore, to say that nothing can have a natural use does not make sense either. Your legs have a natural use of helping you stand upright and walk. The thing you don't understand about evolution is that EVERY thing about you has a purpose (or, is teleological). Your fingerprints didn't just happen, they evolved because they serve to help you hold on to things, and not have them slip out of your hand. If evolution wasn't teleological, then we would not have happened the way we have.

You should really either revise, or completely cut out this section about nature needing consciousness in order to do anything. Because if it makes ME think of the teleological argument, it'll DEFINATELY make your professor think of it)
 
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