Help with girl I met online!

[Heartagram]

Hi, I'm new here.

So I met this girl online, and we've been talking with each other on messenger for a while. The thing is, she talks a lot, with extended answers, and always asks questions (she's also said things like I'm pretty cool and she definitely would like to know me more, etc.); but she rarely starts conversations. I'm usually the one who has to say hi first. But I don't want that... it just doesn't seem right; seems like I'm desperate or something. I even haven't spoken to her for a few days now 'cause I really think she should start the conversation sometimes.

What should I do? I really like her and don't wanna lose touch.

 

[Allurre]

Stop the text exchanging online and MEET up.

That's your next milestone. Fluff talking online -- even if conversations run deep -- isn't going get you any nearer to the next base.

 

[Deniska]

If she starts making excuses not to meet you in person, then you block her and cut off all communications. No matter what the excuse or the story she tells you, its all BS! Get rid of her out of your life.

 

[Heartagram]

OK, the story is that I asked her out and first she said sure, I'd really love to get to know you more, but just as friends, 'cause I like someone else. Then as soon as we set things up (time, location), she was like, I dunno, it'd be awkward, me hanging out with another guy, I'm afraid of messing things up.

Then she went out with that guy and it didn't work out.

 

[COD]

dude,........why did u email her in the first place........why did she respond.

U already LETS JUST BE FRIENDS yourself.........now U gotta backtrack just to be equal with her.

ONLINE GAMING RULE..........KEEP IT SHORT AND ESCALATE ASAP.

GET HER DIGITS AND GET HER ON THE PHONE.

 

[Heartagram]

Wow, why do people like assuming things?

Who said I emailed her?

Also, I asked her out probably a week after I met her.

And I already have her number. She gave me it when we set up the date that she later canceled. But do I just randomly text/call? =\

 

[Igetit!]

How long have you known this girl?

When you two talk/communicate,what do you two talk about...EXACTLY?

 

[Heartagram]

Met her about a month and a half ago. And if it matters, I don't talk to her much... at least not anymore. I mean, we have long conversations sometimes, but they're like once a week or something.

What do we talk about exactly? Just trying to know each other. She asked about my views on drugs once, for example... and once we were just discussing movies. We talk about our interests sometimes--I'm usually the one asking the questions and letting her answer. She even tries to change the subject to me sometimes, but I answer her questions and sort of turn it back to her.

She mentioned her boyfriend once (she was having troubles with him), but I just brushed it away.

Errmm... I don't talk to her when I know she's pissed off, but if she does talk to me, I just change the subject and make her forget about it.

 

[Igetit!]

Well,the reason I asked you about what it is you two talk about is because you said she was willing to meet up with you,but only as friends.

If she only wanted to be friends with you,that means that whatever it was you two spent all that time talking about made her not attracted to you/not interested in you romantically.

She wouldn't just say she only wanted to be friends for no reason at all.

Your conversations with her either turned her off sexually,or simply never generated any chemistry in her in the first place.

That doesn't mean you had NO VALUE to her at all. You had value to her,just not as a romatic interest. If she had problems and issues in her life,then she could use you for an emotional outlet...or as we say here on the forum,an emotional tampon.

Seems like she put you in the friendzone. So the chances of you dating her are basically zero. You can continue chatting with her about drugs,problems,her issues with other guys,etc,but that'll probably be the extent of the "relationship".

 

[Heartagram]

Hmm... well, my friend's interpretation (who's a girl) is that she actually didn't know what to think of me, and wanted a chance (as well as with the other guy), which is why she said, "I don't wanna mess things up," i.e. I want two separate chances with you two (but now the other guy is outta the picture) and I don't want things to be confusing... which is why she canceled even the friend-date in the first place.

If she only saw me as a friend and was sure she wanted to "friendzone" me, why didn't she go for the friend-date?

 

[Igetit!]

If she only saw me as a friend and was sure she wanted to "friendzone" me, why didn't she go for the friend-date?

When a girl says,"I just want to be friends",she really doesn't want to be friends with you. That's just a nice way of her saying,"Hey,I don't like you,I'm not attracted to you,and I'd appreciate it if you'd just go away".

Women don't like confrontation,so they say something like this instead.

It's like 2 five dollars bills versus a 10 dollar bill. They're different,but equal the same thing. If she says she doesn't like you and tells you to go away,you'll leave her alone,but in society,that's not the "nice thing" to do.

So she says "let's just be friends". This way you'll still leave her alone,and she can still be viewed as a "good girl".

Another reason she may have said the "I don't want to mess things up" line if because if you to meet up,and she rejects you face to face,then you may not want to keep talking with her online. She has to have someone to unload all her emotional problems on,and right now,that's you.

As far as she's concerned,she's got a good thing going here. She can come to you with all her problems and issues,and you'll listen to her as she talks about how things are going with all the other guys she's trying to see.

This little "Dr.Phil" relationship you two got going on? That's what she doesn't want to mess up,not a possible dating relationship with you.

You said she was interested in you and another guy at the same time.

Well she gave the other guy a chance by meeting up with him.

Why can't she do that with you?

Because she's not interested romantically.

If she were,she'd give you a chance like she did the other guy.

That's why I originally asked you what EXACTLY did you two talk about.

Something in your previous conversations turned her off.

The other guy struck out with her,but he's still better off than you are.

He struck out,but at least he did make it to the plate to bat.

She's not willing to even give you that.

 

[RMM]

EDIT: Igetit! has it right IMO, this one isn't interested in you, so chalk her up as a learning experience and move on. Just remember to take valuable lessons from it. If you log your conversations, go and review them and find where you could have cranked things up (but didn't), and how you ended up friendzoned.

Okay, here is a tip for you.

Women online feel safe. For a good reason too, if someone turns out to be a creep or annoying, they only need to /ignore (in whatever flavour the particular chat app has) and the problem goes away. So yes, they're pretty safe.

If they are safe, their minds are more open.

Now, considering this, what you want to do is crank up the emotional chat. Yes, some fluff talk is good to have some basics, but you have to appeal to her fantasy after that. She asked about your opinion on drugs? Talk about drugs for a bit, and then start adding up on fantastic things you can do that surpass the feeling of doing drugs. Crazy hypotetical situations. Add her to those situations (in a non-threatening way to start with). Give her some fantasy to build up on, give her emotion.

I've seen a lot of guys who, when it comes to cranking up the sexual talk, merely start giving the chic instructions on what to do where they're sitting, jumping straight from fluff talk.

Don't be that guy. Give her fantasy.

I've got a date this Sunday with a 6.5, 32 year old asian chic that I met online, and we've chatted all of five times (I think she would be up j0n'S alley, except she's not a MILF, no kids ). The first was long fluff talk, the next two were kinda short, fourth I cranked up the fantasy talk (at some point she said something like "gosh, when did we start talking about sex", so that gives you an idea of how I got there, sneakily with fantasy and emotion), and by the fifth she was fingering herself and telling me how much she wanted to **** me (we both have cams, and I didn't even have to do anything on the cam, my hands didn't stray from the keyboard... hers did). There's absolutely no doubt about what we're going to do during that date.

Okay, it's usually not that fast, I just happened to find a horny one. But believe me, women online are EASY to turn on. ***** shields are typically down or weakened. They're receptive. Go for it like you would do offline on a HB whose ***** shield you've taken down; half the hard work is done for you already.

Not only that, but you'll stand out like a lightbulb in a dark alley if you do that, because they often either get fluff talk or explicitly, direct sexual talk with little fantasy behind. Mind you, some HBs will turn you down if you don't immediately start dirty talking to them and doing all the work - and good riddance says I, don't mind them because your chance of hooking up with them is slim anyway; they just want a quick fix online, and won't put anything on the table themselves. Don't waste your time with those, leave them for the horny teenagers.

 

[Heartagram]

Your ability to see negativity in everything is quite astonishing, to be honest.

I'm not trying to blinden myself into believing that I have hope with her; I'm actually quite blunt and honest with myself. But I just don't see it.

For one, she only talked to me about her boyfriend way after I asked her out. And like I said, I avoided it. I didn't offer her help at all. In fact, if she didn't see how I avoided it so bluntly, she's probably stupid in that department. And if she saw me as "Dr. Phil", she'd be coming to me every time she has troubles, which most certainly isn't the case--in fact, she hadn't mentioned any troubles before I asked her out. And then you say: "As far as she's concerned,she's got a good thing going here. She can come to you with all her problems and issues,and you'll listen to her as she talks about how things are going with all the other guys she's trying to see."

And she actually said she'd love to meet me. Is this some kind of women-hating forum, where guys believe all girls are liars deep down? Did she plan it all along? "Let's say I'd love to meet him then cancel within a few seconds..."?

EDIT: That's some good advice, RMM. I appreciate it. However, my point is that I really don't see how I absolutely struck out.

And like you said, if she doesn't like me, she would've blocked me.

PS: I'm not here trying to rationalize that she's so hot for me. I know that I've done mistakes, and that's what I'm asking help with. But I just don't see how I really, absolutely screwed up.

 

[RMM]

She hasn't blocked you because you're not a creep

There's a pretty good topic now on the forum (the one about "obviously missed come-ons, PT 2") which links to an Archive thread about missed come-ons. Of course you haven't done anything nearly as bad as the mistakes in there, but the end result was the same: once a come-on was missed, the girl was never interested again in the same way.

Try to imagine that a girl carries around a notebook and a sharpie pen. Once they meet you, they'll put a picture of you in that notebook, and then they will write what they think of you. And they don't wait long. If soon after they write "friends", then it's going to be difficult to get out of there.

You chatted her up for a week, then asked her out. That's good, you escalated and tried to move forward, but it seems like you hadn't laid a good foundation for that during the week before. That's why she was feeling awkward to go on a date with just you, a 2-person date is either a "(maybe) more than friends date" or a "very close friend date" (i.e., long time friends/emotional tampon). There's no "just barely friends and nothing else date" between two people, if that is to happen it's usually a group meeting for a party or something like that.

It's not entirely conclusive, but it's likely, so it's better if you think about the fact that you've been friendzoned, and don't expect it to escalate more. It may, but it won't be easy if you have been chatting so long without making any progress, and I don't think it will be worth the trouble. If you want, you could try setting up a group meeting, she brings friends and you do too, and you all go to see a movie or something you wanted to do with friends. Chances are she won't want to (making her low interest clear), or if she agrees you can gauge her interest better in a RL situation. I'll bet you a dollar to a dime that she won't show much interest.

EDIT: Okay, so in a less rambling way. Someone has a sig around here that says "you hesitate = you masturbate" and similar ones. The point is, you have to show value, up and above what can be expected from a random friend, and you have to do it early. The methods and techniques all basically converge around this point. Show yourself cut above the norm as early as possible, because an early interest drop is usually fatal.

 

[Heartagram]

I agree that I should've added some fantasy, just to ensure that she's interested. But my point is that I don't believe I struck out by just not adding fantasy.

Think about it personally: would you not be attracted to someone if she didn't add fantasy? Sure, if she turned you on, you'd be so hot for her you can't control yourself. But even if she didn't, you might still find her hot and a potential partner.

Is there not the possibility that she sincerely didn't wanna go out with me 'cause she liked someone else? She didn't wanna go out with me as a friend either... and yet she doesn't dislike me, 'cause she didn't block me. So she's not exactly saying "ew, go away," 'cause like you said, women are quite comfortable online, and she would do that if she really didn't like me even as a friend.

And like I said, she doesn't seem to be starting conversations at all. If she saw me as a friend, my guess is that she'd be comfortable to talk to me like she talks with other friends. Or if she saw me as a "Dr. Phil", she'd always come to me for help. Yet she doesn't seem interested either, 'cause if she was, she'd be so happy seeing me, she'd always talk to me. So my guess is that she just doesn't know what to think of me, so she just leaves me hanging there. It's like she's just waiting for a push in either direction.

 

[Igetit!]

Your ability to see negativity in everything is quite astonishing, to be honest.

Well thank you. You have NO IDEA how much time and effort I've put into trying to achieve this level of negativity seeing. It took me a while,but it finally paid off.

I'm not trying to blinden myself into believing that I have hope with her; I'm actually quite blunt and honest with myself. But I just don't see it.

THAT'S WHY I KEPT ASKING YOU WHAT IT WAS YOU TWO HAD BEEN TALKING ABOUT LEADING UP TO THIS EVENT.

She wouldn't just say the "friends" thing out of the blue for no reason.

From everything you've said about her,all I see are the AFTER EFFECTS.

I was trying to find out what caused the effects in the first place.

For one, she only talked to me about her boyfriend way after I asked her out.

Boyfriend??? She has a boyfriend? So she was interested in you and another guy at the same time all the while having a boyfriend?

Wow.

Is this some kind of women-hating forum, where guys believe all girls are liars deep down?

Do we believe that women are liars deep down? Of course not. They're liars right on the surface.

Did she plan it all along? "Let's say I'd love to meet him then cancel within a few seconds..."?

No,she didn't. I think she initially was open to it,then after having some time to think about it,she changed her mind.

And like you said, if she doesn't like me, she would've blocked me.

I agree with what RMM said about this.

PS:...I've done mistakes, and that's what I'm asking help with. But I just don't see how I really, absolutely screwed up.

The "screwup" happened somewhere in the past. It happened WAAAY before she said you two could meet up as "friends".

It doesn't have to be something you did that caused the problem,it could have been something you DIDN'T do.

I don't know which,ALL I KNOW is it happened before the "friends" comment.

 

[Heartagram]

I was trying to find out what caused the effects in the first place.

Basically, she didn't mention anything about any other guy before I asked her out. But everything else stands, more or less: we were just getting to know each other.

But my point is that you're just assuming she didn't wanna go out with me 'cause she sees me as... a friend?... or something, I don't even get it. Yet if she saw me as a friend, she wouldn't have minded going out as friends. And if she saw me as a "Dr. Phil", she would definitely be speaking more often to me, even if she just wanted to dump her baggage on me. So basically I guess she just didn't know what to see me as and didn't wanna risk going out with me instead of the other guy.

Boyfriend??? She has a boyfriend? So she was interested in you and another guy at the same time all the while having a boyfriend?

Wow.

No.

As I said, that's after I asked her out: she went out with him, he became her boyfriend, they broke up.

I don't know which,ALL I KNOW is it happened before the "friends" comment.

And what I'm saying is that if she actually saw me as a friend, she would wanna seal the friendship and do typical friendship stuff... like talking to me, lol.

 

[Ganondorf]

OP you're over thinking it. She said no and then it didn't work out with the other guy...ok maybe she just doesn't like dating two guys at once, i don't know. With girls, anythings possible. a cancel doesn't always mean no interest.

try again if you want, but escalate from the fluff talk to the fvck talk. Basically pretend you are talking to your girlfriend.

Listen to the others as well. They know what they speak. They are not trying to be negative, but just trying to let you know what might be going on. Key word i said might. she could still be into you, but you won't know by sitting and debating with us. go see for yourself

If you don't feel like you've struck out then just try again and see where that gets you. if she flakes again then forget her.

 

[Heartagram]

Ganondorf, that's exactly what I was planning on doing, actually.

I get what RMM is saying, and I appreciate that he's basically saying don't build your hopes up. Trust me, I'm not. I'm actually already looking at another girl, but I don't believe I absolutely struck out with this one.

Igetit! seems to have absolutely misunderstood me.

Either way, thanks for the help.

 

[RMM]

Heartagram, I think you're going to learn some valuable lessons from this experience

First off:

Think about it personally: would you not be attracted to someone if she didn't add fantasy? Sure, if she turned you on, you'd be so hot for her you can't control yourself. But even if she didn't, you might still find her hot and a potential partner.

I want you to find a post-it and a pen, and write this down then put it somewhere where you can see it often:

Women are not logical, women are emotional.

This is one of the first things you learn in the DJ Bible, and it's quite possibly the most important lesson you can learn from this site.

Never, ever, try to think logically about a woman's actions and reactions. With rare exceptions, when it comes to dating and personal relationships, it is all about emotion. Sure, a muscular attractive man will have oodles of babes swarming around him. But even he won't get far unless he excites a woman emotionally. That is the most important thing you have to remember. It's part of the reason I was so apathetic for so long, I couldn't understand women, so I ended up not trying, and not caring.

Online you don't have a physical presence, you don't have body language, all you have is text (and blurry, pretty unemotional images if you have a webcam). Emotion is more important than anything else. Fantasy is a good way of adding it, but as long as you can give her emotion then any method is good.

The other thing you have to remember:

Friends.

Friends means low interest. Unless it's someone who you have known for a long time, a woman who you have known for a short time and says something about friends will always, 99%+ of the time, mean she doesn't have much interest in you. What this means is "it'll carry on as it has so far, or even less". Sometimes they'll try to have you as emotional tampon and pour their hearts on you about other guys they are having sex with and whatnot, but with the expectation that you will not ever move up from there.

She's not lying (at least that's what she has in her head when she tells you "friends", remember how women are emotional? She feels good for not outright confronting you with a rejection), simply you two are not interpreting the word in the same way. Friends = no further escalation, that's pretty much it.

Doing further friendly things would mean more involvement and emotional investment, and she doesn't want that when she says "friends". She may be genuinely happy with the way things are now (in which case you may still have room to escalate), or she may not want the confrontation of a frontal rejection (in which case that's it), but the bottom line is the same: it's all about low interest.

EDIT: Just a small clarification at the end.