"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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HB's and bringing their friends

The LadyKiller

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It's a topic that has been brought up on the forum before. What to do if you make plans with a HB, but later learn that a friend or friends of hers will also be present. I believe I even asked about it over a year ago. Opinions vary - some posters say to cancel or abandon the date, while others say to go along with it. I'm not sure if there is one correct answer. However, I do have thoughts/questions:

- HB's have become more clever when doing this. By that, I mean they wait until the last possible moment to mention it. In the aforementioned example above, the HB texted me while I was on the way to the date that her friend would be there too. Having no choice but to play it out, the friend eventually left after a little while and things worked out.

- Last week, a met up with a HB at a bar. It wasn't really a "date," but regardless, I was asking her out. Even though she met up with me at the bar alone, one of her AFC guy friends "mysteriously" appears from elsewhere in the bar. Fortunately, I was prepared for this, and a couple of my friends showed up moments later (bar is close to where we live). I even had another HB lined up to stop by, but she got held up at work. We had a fun time, and HB wants to hang out again soon. However, this raises some questions about the entire process:

- What guy would ever agree to be a HB's "protection?" I mention that the guy was an AFC because it's easy to tell he isn't getting any from the HB. These guys are also more of the nice but submissive, not-as-physically-fit type. I understand why HB's do this, but what does the guy gain? I've seen this from a 3rd person perspective before and I am still confused. My other question, does a HB do this because there isn't comfort or because there isn't enough attraction? These situations often carry varying results, so I'm not sure what to think. Could help understand the tactic better.
 

"Stop Asking Your Friends What to Text Her"

Your buddy Dave has been single for three years and thinks "hey u up" is a valid strategy. Your other buddy Mike just got dumped and told you to "just be yourself."

You showed them her text. You asked them to decode the emoji. You drafted four responses and sent the screenshot to the group chat for a vote.

She's been waiting forty minutes.

Put the phone down. Stop crowdsourcing your love life. Type something that sounds like you. Hit send. Then go do literally anything else with your evening.

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The LadyKiller

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Any thoughts? While the "attraction or comfort" question will impact my game more, I still wonder why guys would submit themselves to be a HB's escort/"protection" for the night. I understand how orbiters work, but not even they would do this, right?
 

thatfeel

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If it's sex you want from this girl it's 1 on 1 dates/meets or GTFO. When a girl you're interested in brings her friends you're pretty much just wasting your time. Either get her to do something alone/not bring her friends or just say sorry dude and move on to the next one.
 

marmel75

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I've never had this happen and if it did I would have canceled and/or walked out on her.

Either she thought you were a creepy dude she didn't feel comfortable about, she really didn't care too much about meeting up with you, or she is trying to play a game and see if you will play along.

I would have let her know to have fun with her friend, then deleted her number and if she texted again hit her with a "Who's this?".

F that sh!t

You ask what guy would agree to be "protection" for a girl on a date, I'm asking what guy would agree to meet under those conditions? Step your game up bro. That's a weak look.
 

The LadyKiller

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marmel75 said:
You ask what guy would agree to be "protection" for a girl on a date, I'm asking what guy would agree to meet under those conditions? Step your game up bro. That's a weak look.
Agreeing to meet =/= showing up only to learn there's a surprise addition to the group. Situation has only happened twice with me. If you read the post through, the 1st encounter was actually successful. Not an idea circumstance to begin a date, however it doesn't always forecast doom.

The second mention was a girl who I work with, so bolting immediately would not have been a good look. I don't need to invest as much energy into a HB who does this, but embarrassing her publicly would be more for your own ego instead of trying to shame her. We're adults.
 

"She's Out of Your League"

You've said it a hundred times. Maybe a thousand. And every time you say it, you train your brain to freeze the next time she walks into the room.

Leagues are a myth invented by guys who are scared of women.

She's a person. She has bad breath in the morning. She picks songs she can't sing in the shower. She overthinks her own texts.

Walk over. Say something. The league dissolves the second you open your mouth.

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marmel75

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The LadyKiller said:
Agreeing to meet =/= showing up only to learn there's a surprise addition to the group. Situation has only happened twice with me. If you read the post through, the 1st encounter was actually successful. Not an idea circumstance to begin a date, however it doesn't always forecast doom.

The second mention was a girl who I work with, so bolting immediately would not have been a good look. I don't need to invest as much energy into a HB who does this, but embarrassing her publicly would be more for your own ego instead of trying to shame her. We're adults.

Exactly. And when an adult asks another adult on a date its assumed that its only going to be the two of you. Now, if some random guy just happens to show up, that could be coincidence, so I am not talking about that situation.

In reference to the first one, I would have never learned if it would have been successful or not because I would have just left.

More importantly you are bringing this up as if this is a normal occurrence for you, and if it is there is a big problem here. Again I will say that I NEVER had this happen---not even once.
 
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