Have to show sexual interest right from the start?

[Firefly]

I posted before about my inability to convince women to have anything more then a one night stand with me, as well as my confusion as to why women wanted nothing to do with me after we had sex.

I am beginning to realise that so many times when I thought I was building the foundations of a relationship with a girl by spending a lot of time talking to her, I was in fact I was either boring her to tears, or at least simply establishing myself as a really awesome person to talk to, you know, when she was tired of sleeping with the guy who turned her on emotionally.

I complained in the past about female friends wanting nothing to do with me after we had a ONS, but I am beginning to realise this was my fault too. I framed our relationship in non-sexual terms through lots of polite conversation, and then when I suddenly made sexual overtures and got them into bed, it would have been a jarring change for them. By acting non-sexual, I made our relationship non-sexual, and they felt I had "betrayed" this relationship by changing it into a sexual one. Irrational, but that is how they feel. This is why they feel ok about "friendzoning" someone who they have known for ages and jumping a stranger they met in a club, because the stranger made their intentions obvious from the start.

So in the last two weeks I tried something different. When I was out with a girl, I did nothing but talk about sex. Incessantly. If the topic changed, I would somehow bring it back to sex. I would also constantly tease and ridicule the woman, with the express intent of getting an emotional rise out of her. I am quickwitted in conversation, so I was confident that I could do this without being coming across as "sleazy" or socially inept.

So far the results were:

1. Went out with an all-female group of acquiantances from my university. I maintained sexual and playful conversation the whole evening. I focussed most of my attention on a particularly snotty HB8, mainly because I didn't care if she thought I was weird and never spoke to me again. At one point, I saw her glance briefly at two guys on the street while we were walking to a club, and I said "hey, why don't you go talk to them and catch up with us later" and literally shoved her towards them and kept walking with the group so she had to come running after me. The change in her reaction to me was like night and day. Whereas before she never bothered talking to me when I tried to make polite chit chat with her, by the end of the night, she was laughing at everything I said and making comments like "what has gotten into (firefly)?". She also suggested we go out for ****tails when she got back from travelling, in two weeks time.

2. Drinks with an asian law student. Kept on making fun of her the entire evening. Ended up making out with her in the bar, and then going at it in the bathroom (classy!). Unfortunetly, she let it slip that she was still a virgin and I have this rule about not letting girls have a drunken one night stand as their first time so took her back to her apartment. Scheduled to meet up again when she returns from her trip (it is semester break here, so a lot of international students go travelling now).

3. Took a nineteen year old out to a movie . Did the whole confident sexual thing. She ended up ending the night early, and not accepting my Facebook invite a few days later.

OK, so my approach may still need some work. . In my defence, she is very young and shy (first time away from home), so I may have come across too strong. I also heard from a few mutual friends that she said she had a good time that night, so at least I did not totally offend her.

4. Drinks with another student. I had met her a few times, but only briefly so I had not had time to establish a non-sexual vibe with her. I also met her mainly at social functions I had organised, so I had high levels of social proof. Ended up making out with her at the bar until she remembered she had a boyfriend who only left the country a week ago. Later saw on her Facebook that she said that she had "a great night out" with me.

At the moment, I am also changing the way that I talk to a 9.5 that I am currently platonic buddies with. In our last FB Chat, we talked about nothing but sex and she ended by saying "I dislike you" and ending the conversation. In the past, I would have panicked and apologised or at least tried to get back in touch. Now I am thinking any emotional reaction is better then no reaction, so will wait and see how it pans out. Am a little uncertain about this one as she is a good friend, but I have to be honest and admit I want to sleep with her just as much as being her friend.

So any thoughts or comments? Am I getting better, or am I heading down the wrong path?

 

[Jeffst1980]

I think you have the right idea.

Of course, some girls will respond negatively to this initially, so there's a degree of persistence involved. The good part is that it leaves no question as to whether or not she likes you--if she's hanging out with you, it's on. Much better to get rejected early on than toil in friendzone.

If you look at your friends that are good with women, the one common thread is that they TRY. They push buttons, they escalate past a girl's initial comfort levels, and somehow, girls love them for it. The only way it becomes "creepy" is if YOU show discomfort or too much outcome dependence.

Also, some guys won't talk about the way a girl looks because they're afraid of losing value, but I find this is key to maintaining a sexual frame. I tell girls they look hot, or cute, or sexy, or whatever--but I do it in passing, without any real significance. Compliments make people feel good, and this makes them come back for more.

Stay the course, and enjoy the efficiency of direct game!

 

[Trader]

Also, some guys won't talk about the way a girl looks because they're afraid of losing value, but I find this is key to maintaining a sexual frame. I tell girls they look hot, or cute, or sexy, or whatever--but I do it in passing, without any real significance. Compliments make people feel good, and this makes them come back for more.

Stay the course, and enjoy the efficiency of direct game!

Complimenting girls on their looks only works on average looking girls who are insecure.

Complimenting a beautiful girl on her looks is counterproductive, it is tantamount to a girl telling a doctor how rich and wealthy he is, after a while the doctor would say: 'Hey, what about ME?'

Now, if you are already in an established relationship with her, then this post does not necessarily apply

 

[zekko]

So in the last two weeks I tried something different. When I was out with a girl, I did nothing but talk about sex. Incessantly. If the topic changed, I would somehow bring it back to sex.

When I was a young man trying to figure out how to deal with girls, if one approach failed I would next try the opposite extreme. I think this may be what you are doing. My guess is you may be going too far in the opposite direction. You probably want to be more in between the two extremes. But by all means keep experimenting because that's how you find calibration.

At one point, I saw her glance briefly at two guys on the street while we were walking to a club, and I said "hey, why don't you go talk to them and catch up with us later" and literally shoved her towards them and kept walking with the group so she had to come running after me.

I honestly don't know if I could do this because it's something I read on the internet. I would feel too hokey. To me it would be like reciting a canned line. But it's a great bit - a little push and pull, a little kino, a little C&F, it's got everything.

 

[Scars]

I think a common misconception is that a lot of guys come here and read "be sexual", but are only utilizing it on target #1. If being flirty and courageous isn't your normal behavior, and then you suddenly show this sexual "attention" towards just one girl, then it does make you look creepy. Sometimes I feel like a lot of guys need to just completely forget theory and start from the basics. Build yourself, and confidence up as a man. I know it's said a million times, but I think half the men here either don't know what it means or are too lazy. Fix your bad habits now, make sexual jokes and behavior a common thing, make confidence a 24/7 thing, make it all natural.

Here's an example. Two guys, A and B are both friends with girl C. A is sometimes socially awkward at times, kind of shy, but also has his funny and cool moments, a good decent guy all around. B however, is consistently funny, can hold conversations effortlessly, and is always being sexual (not necessarily as in having it, but just giving it off in his vibes). (Complimenting girl C, winking, rearranging little things she says to change the frame, negging her occasionally then when she gets a poutty face he will use it as an excuse to hug her, drop sexual innuendos, etc..) Just basically walks around with confidence. But he doesn't just do this to one girl, he acts this way towards all girls. He can get away with playfully slapping a girls butt, or other seemingly rude things (to an outsider), but she loves it. Think about how many guys you know that can successfully do this? It's probably not many. These are the guys you need to pay attention to. These are the guys you will learn from.

Good luck my man. I'm sorry if it seems like I hi-jacked your thread, this was more like a rant. Not necessarily directed towards you personally.

-Scars

 

[zekko]

Think about how many guys you know that can successfully do this? It's probably not many.

Honestly, I know a LOT of guys who TRY to do this. And they come off looking bad. They're not highly thought of at all. They DO get laid, because as we all know, it's a numbers game, and there will always be some girls who buy into it. But they are generally viewed as low status and undesireable.

To pull this off well, you have to be well calibrated, and be cool. Otherwise you're just going to look like a mangy little wh0redog. That's the danger with being overly sexual. If you go after EVERYTHING, it will look like you have no standards.

 

[CuriousGirl]

I am nearly always of the opnion "everything in balance" as this can be projected in pretty much all aspects of life. And it'll work here too. I've not studied the whole game theory thing but I know that if you're not sexual then you'll be 'friend-zoned' and if you're too sexual you'll be 'slag-zoned'. The latter is saved for guys that "will only be ever interested in one thing", they won't trust you, they may or may not have sex with you and they certainly won't want anything more. Although you get some girls who might date someone they don't trust, but I'm sure they never last, I don't see the point really.

SO do be sexual but don't overdo it, unless you are only looking for a ONS then being completely sexually focussed should hint to her that's all it'll ever be.

 

[maqnetik]

dont EVER beg to be one of her "girlfriends"

:cheer: