Free testosterone levels

[andy87]

Good day, I have received my free testosterone levels from a blood test I had a few days ago, im 37 years old and live a healthy lifestyle my level is 8.785pg/ml. I have been advised this falls in normal range but would like opinions of anyone who is clued up in this. Thanks Andy

 

[andy87]

Yeah, when the US is the capital of most fatta$$es they lower the ranges to accommodate for the decline in testosterones.

My total was 380 and my free was 8, exactly like yours, I was 30 at that time, very healthy, and played sports. All I wanted to do was to lie down in the couch, severe depression and everyhting that comes with that, I wanted to take a gun to my head and pull the fvcking trigger.

You never chase a number, you go by symptoms, and when you feel great, then you get tested so you have a baseline where your numbers are so you can connect the dots of " I feel great when my numbers are X"

Forget to mention I'm in the UK but yeah know where you are coming from, the reason I got tested was I was curious and was lacking a bit of energy not sure where to go from here

 

[characternote]

Isn't that very low? Like 9 pg/ml
I had my Free T tested recently (I always assumed my total t and free t must be very very low) but they both came in above range
My free T is 164 pg/ml? (assuming i'm doing my conversion right from 567 pmol/l)
total T - 690 ng/dl

I'm actually thinking of hopping on T, though. Just to see what it's like. Just worried about losing hair mostly lol

 

[plumber]

more to this than t and free t. estradiol (e2) is critical. how it works is that its a ratio of free t, vs e2. if the ratio of e2 is high its bad, AND if its too low its bad. its common to go low from people monkeying with it, its common to go high from life and or TRT. there is a lot more to this puzzle, prolactin, SHGB, and other... key is free t vs e2, the ratio.

one of the other posters recently shared a natural stack they use. a couple of the components in that would cause free t to increase and adjust the ratio in the direction that many men need. that could tip the ratio. if its not enough, have to directly address the e2.

learning this stuff is one of the most valuable things to do for yourself. its almost impossible to manage relationships if this stuff is wacked.

 

[plumber]

Don't over complicate, how many people you know its any other of those hormones instead of low test? While you are right, estrogen is extremely important, I would say the most important hormone, just so you know, you need test to be converted into estrogen, if you have low t, your E2 will be low.

agree about not overcomplicating it, that's why this is just the basics. the whole reactive problem, and other issues that so many guys have is based in this. high e2 ratio. and why is test low... and what to do about that... and after doing something, then what happens.

the point is that it is very complicated, but very useful do learn.

for example: she sets a bait comment, then the guy reacts before he can even think. we tell him don't do that... but if he has high e2 ratio he can't help it. or its really difficult to control when in that situation.

sure test gets converted to estrogen, this mostly occurs in the fatty tissue, pretty common to be a little out of shape and have a bad ratio as the extra fat converts more test to estrogen that in turn encourages more fat, estrogen eventually gets cleared by liver, bla bla bla....

if you have low t, your free t ratio to e2 can easily be off and high. yes by total e2 is low also because the source is t, but the ratio is the key. Boom... higher e2 ratio will not signal for LH and more t production.

the point is that the time needed to learn the details is well spent for many men. many man suffer due to stigma of asking questions.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

more to this than t and free t. estradiol (e2) is critical. how it works is that its a ratio of free t, vs e2. if the ratio of e2 is high its bad, AND if its too low its bad. its common to go low from people monkeying with it, its common to go high from life and or TRT. there is a lot more to this puzzle, prolactin, SHGB, and other... key is free t vs e2, the ratio.

one of the other posters recently shared a natural stack they use. a couple of the components in that would cause free t to increase and adjust the ratio in the direction that many men need. that could tip the ratio. if its not enough, have to directly address the e2.

learning this stuff is one of the most valuable things to do for yourself. its almost impossible to manage relationships if this stuff is wacked.

More to it than even that. Progesterone plays a very important role in men as well...if your levels of P:E are not good you can still exhibit signs of estrogen dominance even if your levels of T:E are good.

 

[plumber]

More to it than even that. Progesterone plays a very important role in men as well...if your levels of P:E are not good you can still exhibit signs of estrogen dominance even if your levels of T:E are good.

yea, and even more... the point is it is really useful for any man that is struggling with things like reactivity to take a look.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This is fantasy. How many men do you guys PERSONALLY know that have had those issues? Law of averages my dudes.

Lots and most don't know it.

Considering the average 22 year old man has a Test level of 422 these days which was the equivalent of a 70 year old from the 1960s, the remaining hormones almost by definition are going to be out of whack since the largest one that has the biggest effect on that ratio is so much lower than it should be.

Also, fun fact.

The hormone marker in the body is estrogen.

Essentially our bodies have no idea what the level of testosterone is. It extrapolates that from checking our estrogen levels.

Since the male endocrine system is flooded with xenoesteogens(plastics, etc) and phytoestrogens and other toxins from the environment even before we are born, our bodies essentially are fighting a losing battle to regulate our testosterone levels properly our entire lives.

When estrogen levels are too high in the body it triggers 2 things. One, it lowers T production since the only way a male should have excess estrogen is by aromatizing T into Estradiol, and increase SHBG to bind to T to render it inactive.

Essentially it creates a negative feedback loop in the body and the higher the E levels get, the lower the T levels get, the more fat is stored around the midsection, which is a contributor to estrogen as well and the cycle continues on and on and on...

Why do you think they lowered the "normal range" on Testosterone tests from 300-1100 down to 250-900?

They aren't interested in solving the problem, it's one giant cover up.

Average Male T levels have been documented to be declining by a consistent 1% per year every year since at least 1980. And yet nobody raises an alarm? This should be setting off 5 alarm fire alarms and yet it's almost like nothing is happening

 

[characternote]

any thoughts on this out of interest? Anything stick out as very bad? I don't know much about this stuff. Got my T checked because I always assumed it must be the same as a geriatric womans, but apparently my levels are on the higher side...

http://imgur.com/a/VHiwEHE

 

[Divorced w 3]

any thoughts on this out of interest? Anything stick out as very bad? I don't know much about this stuff. Got my T checked because I always assumed it must be the same as a geriatric womans, but apparently my levels are on the higher side...

http://imgur.com/a/VHiwEHE

Your body is your guide more importantly than anything else. If you’re doing the right things: exercise, diet, sleep - and you have low libido you should see an endocrinologist right away. A good trip to a physician can save you months if not years of depression, embarrassment, tinkering and trying to become an amateur doctor. Once you are seen by someone, then you’re free to play with it further.

 

[characternote]

Your body is your guide more importantly than anything else. If you’re doing the right things: exercise, diet, sleep - and you have low libido you should see an endocrinologist right away. A good trip to a physician can save you months if not years of depression, embarrassment, tinkering and trying to become an amateur doctor. Once you are seen by someone, then you’re free to play with it further.

I actually feel fine. Great libido etc too
The reason I checked and that i'd always assumed that my T levels must be ridiculously low is because I can't grow a beard at all. Literally no hair on my face lol. (which I actually think has helped me when it came to banging girls WAY WAY WAY younger than me. Literally teenagers in my 30's at times lol), But my time is definitely running out there so soon when I'm forced to go for older women, I think a beard will help (as I think a beard will make me look more handsome, albeit older)
But yeah, it made me assume something was wrong
Also, my body is 'decent', but i've always felt that for the effort I put in at the gym (especially when I was going at it hard) I really should have had a more impressive physique! Hell, maybe everyone who actually looks ripped to hell is blasting T for all I know lol

 

[Divorced w 3]

I actually feel fine. Great libido etc too
The reason I checked and that i'd always assumed that my T levels must be ridiculously low is because I can't grow a beard at all. Literally no hair on my face lol. (which I actually think has helped me when it came to banging girls WAY WAY WAY younger than me. Literally teenagers in my 30's at times lol), But my time is definitely running out there so soon when I go for older women, I think a beard will help (as I think a beard will make me look more handsome, albeit older)
But yeah, it made me assume something was wrong
Also, my body is 'decent', but i've always felt that for the effort I put in at the gym (especially when I was going at it hard) I really should have had a more impressive physique! Hell, maybe everyone who actually looks ripped to hell is blasting T for all I know lol

I shave daily. I cannot stand facial hair. Assuming you have a couple bucks in your wallet, maybe see a doctor for that and also a personal trainer. I know how to lift hard and heavy so I looked into a well designed program for folks with constrained time, over on T Nation, which is a good board for athletes, and can bring your knowledge level up a lot, if you don’t want to drop the $$ on a trainer.

 

[plumber]

Lots and most don't know it.

Considering the average 22 year old man has a Test level of 422 these days which was the equivalent of a 70 year old from the 1960s, the remaining hormones almost by definition are going to be out of whack since the largest one that has the biggest effect on that ratio is so much lower than it should be.

Also, fun fact.

The hormone marker in the body is estrogen.

Essentially our bodies have no idea what the level of testosterone is. It extrapolates that from checking our estrogen levels.

Since the male endocrine system is flooded with xenoesteogens(plastics, etc) and phytoestrogens and other toxins from the environment even before we are born, our bodies essentially are fighting a losing battle to regulate our testosterone levels properly our entire lives.

When estrogen levels are too high in the body it triggers 2 things. One, it lowers T production since the only way a male should have excess estrogen is by aromatizing T into Estradiol, and increase SHBG to bind to T to render it inactive.

Essentially it creates a negative feedback loop in the body and the higher the E levels get, the lower the T levels get, the more fat is stored around the midsection, which is a contributor to estrogen as well and the cycle continues on and on and on...

Why do you think they lowered the "normal range" on Testosterone tests from 300-1100 down to 250-900?

They aren't interested in solving the problem, it's one giant cover up.

Average Male T levels have been documented to be declining by a consistent 1% per year every year since at least 1980. And yet nobody raises an alarm? This should be setting off 5 alarm fire alarms and yet it's almost like nothing is happening

wow, you really know this stuff. this is such a huge deal about so many things. when these things are not ok, it is difficult to be a Duan Juan.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Just had my levels checked...

987 total and 335 free

 

[plumber]

Just had my levels checked...

987 total and 335 free

is that pmol/L for the free ?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

is that pmol/L for the free ?

No, I'm in the US, the standard measurement for total test is ng/dL and free test I believe is pg/ml

 

[plumber]

No, I'm in the US, the standard measurement for total test is ng/dL and free test I believe is pg/ml

ok, the 330 is really high. i would expect more like 25 to 30 if total is 987. 33 would be a very high, but possible.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

ok, the 330 is really high. i would expect more like 25 to 30 if total is 987. 33 would be a very high, but possible.

33 is not very high for free test, that would be very low on that scale...actually it would be below range on the scale of that test which goes from 35-155.

The 336 is still pretty high, but that is not out of the norm with TRT as it's exogenous T versus endogenous T.

 

[plumber]

my bad, I did not pay attention to your unit type. you clearly told that free t is in pg, not ng. sorry about that. that converts to about 11.6 ng. so your about 1.3 percent free t. low normal range. so your total t is high due to trt, your e2 might also be high and also shgb, thus the lower free t. its in range. I assume your already taking boron to lower shgb. feeling and libido is tied to free t vs free e2, its a very tight ratio. you clearly have plenty of T.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

my bad, I did not pay attention to your unit type. you clearly told that free t is in pg, not ng. sorry about that. that converts to about 11.6 ng. so your about 1.3 percent free t. low normal range. so your total t is high due to trt, your e2 might also be high and also shgb, thus the lower free t. its in range. I assume your already taking boron to lower shgb. feeling and libido is tied to free t vs free e2, its a very tight ratio. you clearly have plenty of T.

My SHBG is low, it's always under 10, no boron needed, it's always been like that.

E2 is controlled via aromasin/exemestane