FR: Library

[Darth]

I typed this for myself, but I thought it might be of interest to others.

I like doing this for myself. It's like analyzing blunders in a chess game and playing out possible combinations other than what actually happened....


Flirting Log:

11-1:
Really really hot girl at the library, working behind the desk. I know she's parttime because she's in one of my classes. She's anywhere from 20-22 years old. A 9-10. I ask her to come downstairs to help me find a book insistently, and she is smiling a lot, obviously interpreting my (serious) request as just an excuse to flirt with her.

Pros:

-I had my glasses on and never broke frame. Way to go. Normally I can't do anything without taking them off. This was good practice.
-Carried on normal conversation
-Acted masculine and not wimpy/needy. Especially important with more attractive girls
-Created confusion/distress by not jumping all over her.
-Held awesome eye contact

Cons:
-No flirting=no result. I was afraid to be sexual. I was afraid to capitalize on the obvious truth that she was expecting to be flirted with/she knew that I liked her.
-Called myself a moron twice...not good
-Many missed opportunities. I wasn't expecting it, so I wasn't in the right mindset.
-In conversation, failed to direct it back to her. Did not really show interest in what she was saying. Which is too bad because she was giving me a lot to work with.
-Failed to lead the conversation. Was always reacting, instead of initiating.



What should have gone down:

OPENER
She: "So are you a freshman." (actual line)
Me: "Yeah, I'm a freshman. But I'm an old freshman."
Establishing flirting right off.
Me: "How old are you?"


POSSIBLE SCENARIO 1:

"What high school did you go to?" (actual line)
"Well, I'm from Pennsylvania...you probably wouldn't know it." (actual)
"Oh" (actual)

Should have JUMPED in like this, not given her the chance to follow up asking what it's like in Pennsylvania.

Me: "You're probably from Ohio."
She: "Yes, I'm from ....."
Me: "Although, do you have a Hispanic background, if you don't mind my asking?"
She: "Blah blah blah."
Me: "Because you have really thick, fluffy hair. Very pretty."
If I was feeling very confident, I could even follow this up with....
Me: "Can I feel it?"

If she lets me feel it and seems to be enjoying it, I extend my hands down to her shoulders. "Oh man."
Me: "You have nice shoulders too."

If she is responding well...game over. I'd just smile and ask for the number. Checkmate


SCENARIO 2:

Me: "Why are you smiling?" Pause. "You don't actually think that I would just make up this whole thing just to get you alone down here." "I'm not that kind of guy!"

Instantly, we are on the right wavelength.

SCENARIO 2B:
"Why are you smiling?" Pause. "If I didn't know better, I would think that you think that I just made this whole thing up so I could get you alone."


---------------

Which path would you have taken?

What actually happened was that I let her ask most of the questions, and continued to act irritated that I couldn't find the book I was looking for. I wasn't really going after her. And now that I think back, she was going to just walk away and let me look for the book in the proper section, but she went to the trouble of finding the exact one for me so that she could walk back up and talk to me more, which she did.

What do you guys think? What might you suggest for follow-ups to this? I want this girls number (not one-itus...I just really want to see if I can get her number). She's actually in one of my classes too.

What would you do? It seems to me I need to counter my more uninterested impression with my lighter side if I'm going to have any shot at all....

 

[HolyG]

hey man,

you're already doing very well. however, you should never be afraid to flirt. you kino, body language, voice tone/ talking speed and flirt. call her cute or sexy, then ease off her a bit. push/pull tactics, however from what I know, faster results are achieved from being direct. i have trouble with this myself.

 

[Lust]

Over analysis.

Figure out what you did wrong, and fix it. Don't sit there pondering about a bunch of possible routes the interaction could have taken.

 

[Darth]

Over analysis.

Figure out what you did wrong, and fix it. Don't sit there pondering about a bunch of possible routes the interaction could have taken.

Except that if this happens again, now I'll know what to say.

I figure that before too long, these situations will start to repeat themselves, and when they do, I'll be able to jump on it instead of kicking myself for what I should have said.

I think that's horrible because it makes you look self conscious by pointing out to her that you're NOT hitting on her when you SHOULD be. I bet she would detect that sh!it, too.

Dude, what's wrong with admitting that you're hitting on her? It's not degrading since every guy that talks to her is hitting on her. And plus, GIRLS LIKE TO GET HIT ON."

Good catch dude. Thanks.

I think you got to the root of my problem here, which is that I didn't want to admit that I was outright hitting on her.

In fact I think subconsciously I was embarrassed that she had already assumed I was making an excuse to flirt with her, so instead I tried to prove her wrong, instead of closing in like I should have.


Moral of the story: When she spills the beans like this (and she did, right from the beginning, with all her smiles), go shamelessly direct.

"Let me feel it" [as you're already moving in to feel it.] Dude you're not asking some stranger if you can pet her dog.

thanks again. I think this was my anti-sexual assault programming that I thought I'd driven out forever.

Of course I should assume this. Asking her is lame and it gives her the opportunity to say no.


Please keep these coming guys! This is useful because the ideas in here apply to a lot of things, not just library.

 

[daygameguy]

Whenever you feel like "Sh1t I donno what to say now, what next CnF line I should use??" - just start qualifying her.

Whenever you are lost in a pickup - start qualifying her. Simple rule. - credit Mystery.

 

[daygameguy]

Yeah but what can you say that qualifies as qualifying her? Any examples? Thanks.

1. You know, you are very pretty. Is there more to you than all this? Are you good at sports or are you one of those creative ones who love art and theater and stuff?

2. If you had no chance of failure what would u wanna be? And don't say ballerina or princess! lol

3. What do wanna be when you grow up?

4. What do you do for fun? / How do you keep yourself busy?

You get the idea right.. just make her justify what she is doing/wants to do in life... and make her show you something good about her beyond her looks...

Its pretty easy tbh... just keep raising the bar and make her qualify higher and higher... she will think you have a high standard and all your friends must be really quality people..

YOu can add a little bait-hook-reel-release concept if you want:

Her: Oh I am into theatre.. I wanna be an actress.
You: NO WAY.. I actually dated a girl who was studying theater at the time and she used to act in these small TV commercials as a part time thing... so you totally remind me of her.. I cant even talk to you now.

 

[The Master Disaster]

I don't know dude. Your hearts there, but I'm not even confident in your hypothetical scenarios.

I'm willing to bet $500 that she couldn't care less about your high school, college, ethnicity. No one really cares. It's just small talk.

She obviously want to get to know who you are, and not where your from.

I mean the conversation stem you were working with had no potential. That's stuff you find out about her by discussing other, more interesting, things.

Maybe by going:

Her: "So you are a freshman?"
Me: "Is that a racial slur?"
Her: "Uh..."
Me: "I'm just kidding, what's your name?"
her: "Blah"

Boom, you're in control, and she is play-dough in your hands. It's amazing how many times I can get women with things like, "Is that a racial slur?"

My main point is, get her captivated with the first thing you say that has always been my creed.

“They may forget what you said, but they will never forget how you made them feel.”
-Buechner

Also, never pretend your doing something, especially in an irritated mind set, rather than pay attention to her. I mean you can do it later on, but not right in the beginning. It gives off a flustered, out of control tone, and that is not by any means what you want to put out.

You should of just given up on the book for 5 mins, and figured out why she was talking to you. She wanted to give you her number from what I see from the very beginning, and the only thing you could do was screw it up...

Work on it.

 

[Darth]

I'm willing to bet $500 that she couldn't care less about your high school, college, ethnicity. No one really cares. It's just small talk.

I knew this at the time. It was obviously a BS question to get me talking.

I mean the conversation stem you were working with had no potential. That's stuff you find out about her by discussing other, more interesting, things.

Maybe by going:

Her: "So you are a freshman?"
Me: "Is that a racial slur?"
Her: "Uh..."
Me: "I'm just kidding, what's your name?"
her: "Blah"

Boom, you're in control, and she is play-dough in your hands.

Great advice. Thanks. That's what went wrong. From the very first line, she was qualifying me, and after that I couldn't dig my way out and reversed it. I should have thought on my feet and turned it on her from the very beginning. Of course, there were other people around, but still I shouldn't have hesitated to do this.

Valuable lesson.

Also, never pretend your doing something, especially in an irritated mind set, rather than pay attention to her. I mean you can do it later on, but not right in the beginning. It gives off a flustered, out of control tone, and that is not by any means what you want to put out.

You should of just given up on the book for 5 mins, and figured out why she was talking to you. She wanted to give you her number from what I see from the very beginning, and the only thing you could do was screw it up...

Sh!t. Yes, I isolated her alone in the basement and made no move. Major error.

All I can ask now is...can I salvage this? How would you do it? When I left she was still friendly, but seemed confused at how I had acted. Has she already nexted me?

I mean, between now and December I'm definitely going to try something on her, but knowing the history now.....any advice?

Thnks

 

[Darth]

What I'm thinking is that I'll go to the library again and ask her to help me find another book. When we get to the bottom and she asks which book, I'll say "I forgot" and start flirting.

 

[Darth]

Going downstairs might seem sketchy; I have no idea though, and I personally would worry about her thinking for a few seconds and being like "umm, sure, let me get name/this guy to help you", because that would suck, and I would have no idea what to say.

That's definitely something to think about. That would suck.

Well, I think I've gotten step 1, which would be: Sit next to her in class and get her name, and then ask her some personal questions (she was telling me some stuff she was taking in the library, but we had to cut off after reaching the desk).

Can't hurt.

I think I still have a good shot, because I made a really good first impression on her previously, as someone with a lot of confidence and good sense of humor. Plus, I didn't do anything outright stupid at the library. She'll probably be into me still if I play it right...

 

[Darth]

Although, I am not experienced with classroom game. We're always in the front (it's like 20 person class), so I'll have an audience. Also, there's another guy who really likes her and who has been talking to her. I might have that to deal with.

So what do I do, just plop down next to her and start talking, ignoring everyone else unless we're interrupted?

Any tips on dealing with the audience factor? I'm going to try this soon...

Thnks

 

[Darth]

11-7
So I noticed she was staying in her seat after class was over, so I stayed too, and then I started to get up and she got up too. I headed toward the door. She practically ran across the room to give her paper to the teacher, and then turned for the door. I held it open for her.

Then, she turns around, smiling, and initiates conversation, complimenting me on something. Unfortunately I was smiling way too much. At the end, I asked her what her name was, and she asked what mine was, and then I didn't know how to end it so it ended awkwardly, but the way she was smiling told me she was happy I was finally showing interest in her.

11-9

I go to the front desk of the library. She looks up, smiles, and says, "Hey." I say, "Hi Connie." She smiles a little bit and looks down. "I just wanted to return...this," I say, holding up a music book.

At this point there is a guy working next to her that turns around to watch. I got a little nervous at this point. I don't like having an audience for this kind of thing....

"Oh, OK. Would you like a receipt with that?"
"Uh...I don't know. Do I need one?" I said.
"Well....basically you don't need one if you trust me to file the book away, return the form...blah blah blah etc."
I break out into a smile.
"I guess I can trust you."
She smiles back.
"OK."
She looks down, smiling. I turn around and walk out the door. It's a little awkward.

MUCH BETTER would have been to acknowledge the guy next to her, and ask him, "I don't know. Can I trust her?" And get his response.




Pros
-She still seems to like me, and even in my moments of weakness I am a good contrast to the very needy nice guy in my class. I've actually talked to him some, and he's a really nice guy, but he is a textbook AFC, always offering to do things for her, always telling her what his plans are, etc.
-Even when I acted stupid, she can't quit smiling. Maybe I'm her type physically? Either way, even considering my mistakes, her IOI's were off the chart.

Cons
-I had this dopey, stupid smile on talking to her
-I shouldn't have given away my hand. What probably attracted her to me in the first place was that I was talking to her a little roughly/indifferently. Suddenly I turned into an awkward wimp that obviously likes her.
-She has an irritating tendency to ask questions I'm not expecting, rather than letting me run the conversation. I have demonstrated lack of conversational skill, making moments awkward.






So how do I play it from here? My gut tells me to just ignore her now for a couple weeks and try to make her actively want me again. Then, approach her in the library and ask her to help me find another book, but in a serious way. And only then make a move.

Because I'm afraid now I flirted with AFC-ism and now, she thinks she can have me and is no longer interested. So I've got to actively convince her she can't have me by continuing not to sit next to her in class and talking to her roughly, even rudely, and she will be very interested again.

Right?

 

[Darth]

Any comment?

I don't want to admit one-itus for this girl....but yeah, I really like her and I need to have the best strategy possible to get her.

 

[goodfoot]

"I need a study buddy. Let me get your number."

Whatever you do, don't ask for another book.

 

[Darth]

Whatever you do, don't ask for another book.

Really? Is it because it's too predictable/I could get turned down? Anyway, you sound really sure about this, so I won't. But it's going to make it more difficult....



So now I guess what I'll do is ignore her for a couple weeks to try to undo the damage I just did. If I run into her at the library when I'm returning something, I will be aloof and hands-off. No small-talk, no nothing. I'll make her wonder why suddenly I don't want her anymore (hopefully).

Then, one day after class, I'll just go for it. Think of a thinly veiled excuse to get her number.


Actually I think I've got one. She plays violin and I write music, so I can tell her to give me her number in case I ever write anything for violin.


It's actually a legit reason (except she knows better, lol). But if I can just salvage this thing and get her number, then I know what to do from there

Does this sound good?

 

[daygameguy]

Really? Is it because it's too predictable/I could get turned down? Anyway, you sound really sure about this, so I won't. But it's going to make it more difficult....



So now I guess what I'll do is ignore her for a couple weeks to try to undo the damage I just did. If I run into her at the library when I'm returning something, I will be aloof and hands-off. No small-talk, no nothing. I'll make her wonder why suddenly I don't want her anymore (hopefully).

Then, one day after class, I'll just go for it. Think of a thinly veiled excuse to get her number.


Actually I think I've got one. She plays violin and I write music, so I can tell her to give me her number in case I ever write anything for violin.


It's actually a legit reason (except she knows better, lol). But if I can just salvage this thing and get her number, then I know what to do from there

Does this sound good?

Your creep-o-meter is going off the roof. I think you are too invested in her, without her being invested in you. Your inner state is AFC at the moment.

Next time she sees you, or you see her, either way, there MUST be a girl with you, or a group of guys all laughing and enjoying themselves.

Build some attraction dude. Let her chase you.

Just scrap your game, and all your interactions with her upto this point, and make a fresh start. Be cool, NON NEEDY, show her some social value, and if you can't handle that, just go in genuine and direct, with COMPLETE conviction, like you REALLY like her, and want to take her out, have fun with her, and make love to her.

Your logical analysis paralysis is killing you and your chances with her. You used too much indirect conversation which was all over the place. So don't keep doing what you are doing. Go in Direct or with a good healthy social value. At least it will help flushing out any negative elements that she might have developed about you.

And if none of this works out, or seems feasible to you, then forget about her, its a dead set. Move on.

 

[The Master Disaster]

So now I guess what I'll do is ignore her for a couple weeks to try to undo the damage I just did. If I run into her at the library when I'm returning something, I will be aloof and hands-off. No small-talk, no nothing. I'll make her wonder why suddenly I don't want her anymore (hopefully).

NO NO NO NO! DO NOT DO THAT!

For god sakes, act now! You can only turn it off when she thirsts for it. You've only given her some mild attention and a plethora of awkward moments.

Just ask for another book get to the bottom. When your all alone, she'll be like, "what book are you looking for, stud muffin?" Just be like, "It's not a book, sweet cheeks" and go in for a kiss.

Do something like that, but if you don't act now she'll get bored and label you as Mr. Awkward Creep.

Also, don't you ever dare say that thing about give me your number in case I write something for Violins. Mother of god, that is a terrible excuse.

 

[daygameguy]

Also, don't you ever dare say that thing about give me your number in case I write something for Violins. Mother of god, that is a terrible excuse.

Fvck YEAH dude. There should be NO excuses EVER in ANY part of courtship with a woman.

 

[Darth]

Thanks for the awesome advice guys. I'm getting a couple contradicting things here, but it looks like the bottom line is...quit playing games and start running on testosterone and just take what I want. No more indirect conversation- the next time I get one-on-one with her, go for the kill.

Now, the reason I wanted to ask for another book was because it's the only way I know I can isolate her, so I think I'm still going to do it, although I'd like to know why Goodfoot thinks I shouldn't.

You can only turn it off when she thirsts for it. You've only given her some mild attention and a plethora of awkward moments...if you don't act now she'll get bored and label you as Mr. Awkward Creep.

I didn't want to admit it, but that's true. I need to create attraction again.

My problem is this, though:

I need to act soon, but if I act too soon without anything in between, it will come across like I'm chasing her.

Next time she sees you, or you see her, either way, there MUST be a girl with you, or a group of guys all laughing and enjoying themselves.

The problem being that I'm going to see her Thursday in class. But yeah, I definitely need to show social value, so talking with everybody else would be a good start.

Should I sit next to her? Probably not. But ignoring her won't work, because it could be she doesn't care anymore.

But bottom line from what I understand is....forget everything in the past, and talk to her with the sole intention of getting her. No more social games. Screw it.

Although, then isn't it me that's coming onto her?

Thanks guys. I'm learning a lot from this. Looking forward to your response.

 

[The Master Disaster]

Although, then isn't it me that's coming onto her?

Is that a serious question? Men are suppose to come on to women... That's the whole point of the site. Teaching men proper ways to come on to women...

Approaching, Conversations, Attraction, Sex... I mean there is nothing but men coming on to women.

So, DO IT! Don't worry about "Showing" social savey. Who cares... If your aim is to impress, you're never going to do it. It's the sheer fact of trying to impress people. It never pans out the way you plan.

If the next time you see her is on Thursday, wait after class like you did. Chit-Chat for awhile, then when you feel the moment is right offer her a chance to get to know you more. Be like,

"I would like to get to know you more. What do you have planned Saturday night?"

She'll either say "Nothing (Yes I'll go out with you.)" or "I'm busy."

If she says Yes, Boom. Done. Game over. You don't have to debate if she likes you or not.

If she says "I'm busy" or "I have plans" offer her a second option. "What's do you have planned Friday?"

She'll either say "Nothing (Yes)" or "I'm busy."

I mean if she says "I'm busy," who cares move on. Just say "Alright, I'll see you around. Bye."

Over, you don't have to think about getting with her anymore. You can devote your attention to whoever you want now.

Just get some closure man. I don't want to see that you didn't pop the question. Because if you don't pop it ASAP, there won't be an option down the road.

Strike Now!