FR++: Day2 ASD

[AlwaysExcel]

Remember HBHispanic from my RPG and Martini Dyck FR? http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61369
Well, I finally got around to a 2nd meet up with her. I had to cancel a couple meetings with her because of various reasons. While setting and cancelling these dates, I ended up talking on the phone to her a lot. Several of these convos took place while she was hanging out with the jealous dude she supposedly broke it off with. All of these convos had to do with the extreme drama in her life.

The breaking point was when she wanted to use me as a consultant to defeat her enemies in her job (I have education in her field). I told her that I would talk to her a little bit about her job but I wanted to have fun with her, not get all wrapped up in her work drama. I told her that I’m not here to solve her problems but to give her a vacation from the turmoil. She immediately backed down and said that she did need to escape from it all and have fun.

Some of you may be itching to type NEXT! but I’m polyamorous so I don’t have to worry about finding a quality girl who I can safely make my one and only. I’m interested in people I can have fun with while successfully sexing them, either for the short term or long term. I’m also interested in learning about game and overcoming obstacles.

I realized several things:
1) I was starting to feel like one of her GF’s or an emotional tampon. My previous fears about her dominating the frame were coming true.
2) She is addicted to drama more than most girls. Her family life, work life, past relationships, and current relationship with ol’ dude, all include drama. This girl even keeps the Soap Opera Channel on as background ambience in her apartment!! LOL!
3) The other guy is giving her the drama she craves.

So I thought about how I could reassert control. This girl needs drama but I’m not willing to become negative and jealous like the other guy. Inspired by one of TD’s tactic posts, I decided to insert artificial drama. We went out a couple days after the elections to shoot pool. I told her that it was Bush country now and that men had the right to take their women in hand. I worked up an RPG of me being a wife beating redneck. I would bump into her and then act like I was going off on her and about to hit her. Then I would start kissing her and say that I loved her so much but she made me so mad. She LOVED that shyt. I found out that she’d actually been domestically abused before and thought that my humorous re-enactment was spot on.

Also, since this girl’s frame had been getting out of hand, I decided to guide the frame at every chance I got with funny stories and C&F. The cool thing was that she didn’t talk about her work drama at all. I guess I shut it down by refusing to be her tool.

We had a lot of fun. I easily slipped into a lot of physical play based on the RPG (picking her up and spinning her around upside down as I “kicked her ass”). We kissed a lot too intermittently.

The only shytty thing was that she brought her cell phone. I told her that if she answered it, I would leave her at the bar. She answered it the first time to talk to her mom for a second, which I didn’t trip about. However, I came back from the bathroom to find her answering her phone. It was ol’ dude checking up on her!!! He’s starting to get annoying. My artificial drama was obviously not extreme enough for her. I prolly should’ve given her real drama and left her there like I said would. But I still think that getting angry is weak. And I’ve got to admit, I wasn’t confident that a takeaway would work. After all, she was getting validation from ol’ dude. So instead, I starting giving her a vigorous lap dance and throwing my ass in her face. She stopped talking to dude and busted up laughing. He hung up on her. Lol! Nice, use his pissyness against him.

Finally, I took her back to her apartment. But she claimed that she had to call ol’ dude back because she promised him she’d call and she’s trustworthy. GRRRRRRR! So, just as she started to talk to him, I threw her over my shoulder and started slapping the hell out of her ass. She was screaming and giggling. I then threw her on the ground and wrestled with her, still slapping her ass. Ol’ dude hung up again and the cell phone flew out of her hands! She later told me that he asked her if she was babysitting. Trying to Amog me punk? She got several other calls after this but didn’t answer them because I was keeping her preoccupied..

I pinned her down and we started making out. I got her shirt and bra off with no resistance. She was mad excited as I sucked her tits. Then the ASD came crushing back. She was frantically pushing me off as she shivered and ground her crotch into me. We went through the whole gamut of ASD. I tried every angle in the book. First I combined comments about the nice sensations with dirty talk. She got into it but then regained her senses. She said she was beating herself up for being such a hor and almost fvcking me on our last date. I told her that “hor” isn’t in my lexicon, that I wouldn’t judge her, that I have a radically different view of sexuality (I do), that she was self limiting, that she was denying her natural sexuality, that I was responsible for the seduction so she shouldn’t feel bad (I regret that comment) etc etc. Finally, she pushed me off, rushed to the bathroom, and put her clothes back on. DAMN! State broken!

When she came back in, she stayed across the room from me. She asked me if I came over that night just to fvck her. I stared at her for a moment and she said, “I guess I got my answer.” Ooops! I told her that I came over to have fun, which could include sex. I still had fun, even though I didn’t have sex with her. She asked me why I wanted to hang out with her other than for sex. I had previously qualified her and reminded her of this. We talked more and she agreed that she is a highly sexual person but she wants to have sex with a connection as opposed to casual sex. I prolly should’ve oversold our connection but I got tired of arguing to get sex. She kept referring back to not being comfortable with sex that night so I agreed that we hadn’t spent that much time together and that I wanted her to be comfortable. I’m really regretting agreeing that we didn’t have the connection.

 

[AlwaysExcel]

My biggest issue with the ASD (besides not getting sex) was the thought that she was using sex as a power tool over me. Did she want to string me along until she decided whether she wanted to be exclusive with me, then refuse sex until I became her steady BF? I asked her if she was the type of person who didn’t have sex unless she was in a monogamous relationship. She gave a muddled reply, admitting to having had casual sex before. I told her that I was polyamorous and explained the whole MLTR thing. I really emphasized that jealousy and exclusivity is bad thing. I told her that if she wasn’t down with that, then we didn’t need to be hanging out. I said that I wasn’t trying to convince her to have sex with me now as I no longer wanted to have sex that night. I said that she killed my mood. Lol! She said that she was down with polyamory and that one of the people she really admires to is polyamorous too. Cool, cool.

Then she changed the topic of sex and started talking about a couple of deep experiences that she’s had. We hugged and I got her to cuddle with me. I told her that this is one of my favorite things to do when I’m with her. I commented on how well our bodies fit together and the weird way she wrapped both of her legs around and around one of my legs like a vine. I told her she’d come in handy this winter and did some visualization about cuddling under the covers (I can’t remember who on mASF suggested this but thanks).

She really dug all of this and started getting all excited again. She got on top of me, feeling me up, kissing and grinding on me. Yet, whenever I would start to let my hand wander or become aggressive, she would shut it down. Then she’d start up again when I just held and cuddled her. Hmmmmm. This is an interesting perspective. Maybe I’m stirring up a lot of ASD by being too physically aggressive right off the bat. When I was AFC, I was afraid of doing anything physical and turning off the women. Now, I try to escalate all the time, but in a natural way of course. However, maybe chilling back the escalation just a hair could be helpful. I’m not talking about going back to the fearful inhibited frame. And I’m not talking about slower foreplay. I drag foreplay out for hours. I’m talking about working it so that the girl takes over some of the foreplay and kino. I would always be frustrated when girls just laid there and wallowed in the pleasure I gave them. I’m going to work on getting them to reciprocate by chilling back and maybe this can help with the ASD. Or not. She eventually stopped herself and I left.

I feel that I need to start working some indirect into my game. Indirect stuff like qualifying and push/pull could help me create artificial drama and might also help the ASD. It could help defeat ol’ dude’s appeal as a challenge as well. I don’t care whether she’s fvcking him but I don’t like his reality interfering with mine. And I can feel that the time is coming where I’ll meet him face to face and have to AMOG the fvck out him. BTW, I saw a pic of him and he’s a straight nerd! A nerd with game.....hmmmm....wouldn’t surprise me if he’s up on one of these forums. Watch out dude, I’m coming for your ass! LOL!

I tried to insert some indirect the next day with an e-mail. I told her that I previously had doubts about hanging with her because of her drama but was happy that she didn’t bring much on the date. I said that I’m still unsure whether I could cuddle with her this winter because she got some drama fixes in through the cell phone. She’d have to shut it off if she wanted to be with me in the future. She hasn’t replied promptly, which she usually does. Maybe the gig is up, maybe not.

After thinking about this experience for a couple days, I realized that ASD is my current sticking point. I’ve been successfully gaming girls but keep running into this. And it provokes anger and frustration in me which is my number one red flag for residual AFCness. It pisses me off, among other things, that women will let me lick their puss and get them off but refuse to give me any sort of pleasure. Selfish b1tches!

I kept thinking about this issue and made some game realizations. First, I now understand the value of qualifying during rapport. This is huge and I haven’t used it much. Second, when I tried to deal with the ASD I just spit out lines like crazy. It felt like the early days when I’d blurt out C&F or a routine, expecting a magic pill.

So I as I thought about the ASD I used my indignation and beliefs to come up with my own anti-ASD plan. I’m going to seed my rapport efforts with threads about my past Christian inhibitions and my present pursuit of freedom and unfettered enjoyment of life. I’m also going to qualify future girls in relation to this frame. “Have you ever done anything you were afraid to do at first?” “I don’t like to be with people who are limited by fear and BS mindsets.” “I can connect with you because you’re willing to push through the BS to pure enjoyment of life like me. It’s awesome to meet someone I can enjoy life with like this.”A foreshadowing of sorts.

Then, if I hit ASD, I’m going to express how very disappointed I am to find out that she really isn’t into freedom and accepts BS lines of thought that keep us from having an immediate experience of life. I thought she was different. When I find someone I can connect with like this, it’s natural to want sex. But now that I found she isn’t different, I don’t want to have sex with her. It will be a take-away that reframes the situation where I’m the one with LMR because of lack of connection. I wanted to have sex with her because she’s special and I felt connected. Now she’s not special since she won’t have sex. The only way for the girl to regain validation and connection with me is to have sex with me. I’m thinking I can convey this in a genuine and believable manner because it’s based on my REAL emotions and beliefs. Or maybe it will fail miserably. I’m going to test it out. Either way, it’s a new experience for me to think about how to set the stage during one part of the interaction, for success in another part. And still have a relaxed frame. I like it!

With this particular girl, I’m going to chill back on the physical escalation a tad, in tandem with my indirect gaming. I might try to work in an altered version of my ASD plan but I’ve already used a bunch of other lines and made some mistakes in that area. What do ya’ll think?

 

[Duke]

Your plan to overcome LMR seems like it will work to me. Be sure to post up your results after you try it.

Looks like you're in the same boat as me, man. This past weekend I was making out heavy with a girl, I tried to get my hand on her boobs (or more specifically her nipples, cuz she let me roam her boobs....) and on her panties, but she shut me down repeatedly. I'd go back to making out, treating it like no big deal, then going back. Eventually, she goes "Duke......" as if she was getting tired of my efforts.

ITS FVCKING AGGRAVATING!! LOL I definitely feel ya man. I too feel like she's using sex as a tool, and I also feel like she's trying to make sure that I want her for more than sex... Insecure, believing I only want to **** her, ya know?

I think I need to build a connection with her, cuz I definitely feel one, but I gotta repair damage I did with the CF overdose that happened when I first met her.

When I first met her, I used tons of CF, which was effective in the beginning but got old fast. The CF unfortunately set up a combative frame, where we'd always argue.

So now I'm trying to break that and be more honest and real, yet she's still clawing back at me to be CF... shooting CF stuff at me and expecting me to be a smartass. IOI? I don't think so. She honestly perceived me as a jerk and didn't trust me as much. So now I'm trying to make up for lost trust. Cuz I keep getting ASD even though I can clearly see that her state rises through the roof when we're being physically intimate.

I kid you not, after I made out with her, she was really giddy, initiating a lot of convo threads, smiling, trying to get my attention. Kind of funny how she melts into a little girl when we're physical. But when she verbally spars, she can be very aggressive and caustic.

Anyways, to make up for lost trust, I will try to mention the whole connection thing. Any more details about that? I've been telling her some things about how she reminds me of a bunny and she has a cute smile and sh!t, but she answers me with things like "Okay?" or "uhhh thanks" WTF? Why am I getting these responses? Seems like she should be replying with things like "oh, why do I remind you of a bunny?". You know.... somebody who actually cares lol.

Adios amigo

 

[Walden]

Interesting case.
Being poly ( and casual about it) can run as a real super alpha trip, but I find I have to be careful with it too


I gotta tell you though bro youre a better man than I, poly or not I'd have my finger on that NEXT button by now and just itching to puch the motherf***er .

 

[AlwaysExcel]

Hey Walden, would you elaborate on how you've found being poly or super alpha can backfire on you? Just curious.
Thanx

 

[AlwaysExcel]

Duke, I'm all about experimenting with qualifying now. Letting her know how she pleases you or measures up to your high standards. I'm talking about doing this in a non-arrogant manner of course. It's not, "I'm the prize, measure up biotch!" It's "wow, something else about you that makes you fun to be around and enhances our vibe! I think I'll stick around a bit longer now." I'm working on using it less to increase my value (I assume my high value) and more as ASD deterrent---give her reasons why a high value dude would want to be with her. In fact, I might start framing ASD as a low self esteem issue on her part! Hmmmm.

I think that this might be useful for you if you're having congruency problems with being a jerk and having a connection. Qualifying could help you bridge that gap. She's "winning" you over with her fun and attractive qualities. Isn't that the female fantasy? Maybe you could stand to keep a little more ****y teasing frame with YOUR qualifying at first if you were using a bunch of C&F and she was really digging it.