"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

Read more...

Flirting on a 1st date

MikeEdward1973

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
276
Reaction score
9
Hi folks - after surfing on this forum a bit, I realized that this section of the forum might be a better place to seek feedback, since I'm 34. So I'm repeating some thoughts that I did post a bit earlier in another section of the forum.

In any case, here is my problem. I am getting plenty of first dates with good looking women. Very few 2nd dates. I talked about this with a friend of mine tonight. His point was a good one - I have zero idea of how to flirt. I'm just bad at it. I talk to women like they're friends. Male friends. We talk for hours, and have great conversations, but I think I'm getting moved into the 'friends' category really fast.

So - could some folks here give me advice on flirting on a first date? I really need some new moves.

(just as background, I'm 34, and the women we're talking about are usually between 28 and 31.)

We talk about everything from work and family life (I don't have any kids, and neither do the women I date - I'm referring to parents and siblings) to the places we've lived and what we do for fun.

Not to sound arrogant, but I do have a lot of interesting stuff to talk about, I spent 5 years on Wall Street, and now I work in Silicon Valley. And I spend most of the time asking them about them, not talking about just me. I show a lot of interest in what they do, their life, etc.

And I get a lot of good vibes - almost *always* they do the hair-stroking thing and we make a ton of eye contact.

My follow-up is I call a couple days later, leave a message, and they usually don't call back. And then a couple days after that, I'll shoot them a text message, just saying hi, asking how their week is going. Usually no reply.

My suspicion is that I'm not flirting - I treat it way too much like a job interview. And I am really good at job interviews, so I think my brain is trained to be too much of a gentlemen.

Does anyone know what I'm talking about? help?
 
Last edited:

"You'll Never Feel READY to Walk Over"

Next Monday you'll feel more confident. After the gym you'll feel more confident. After one more drink you'll feel more confident. After you get a better haircut, a better jacket, a better job.

You've been "getting ready" for two years.

She's standing ten feet away right now. She'll be gone in four minutes. No amount of preparation will manufacture the courage that only comes from moving your feet.

Walk over. Stumble through the first sentence. Let it be clumsy. Let it be imperfect. You will feel more alive in those ten seconds than you have all month.

Read more...

jophil28

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
5,216
Reaction score
278
Location
Gold Coast. Aust.
MikeEdward1973 said:
I treat it way too much like a job interview. And I am really good at job interviews, so I think my brain is trained to be too much of a gentlemen.

Does anyone know what I'm talking about? help?
OK here is the BIG question - on the dates, who is the "interviewer" and who is in the role of the interviewee.
( think that I already know what your answer will be )
 

MikeEdward1973

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
276
Reaction score
9
So, I ask a ton of questions, and show a lot of interest. And they ask me questions. And I think that's the way to go. And I usually have a good time, and I think they do to. Sometimes we'll talk for 2+ hours. That's common.

But I also think that my style is, while not overly formal, is also not 'flirty' or 'silly' or...what's the word I'm looking for...'fun' enough.

Know what I mean?
 

MikeEdward1973

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
276
Reaction score
9
window said:
wait at least 5 days to call them next time, never leave a message and never check in especially if they haven't returned ur call...

always keep em guessing...so she thinks "geez I wonder if that guy liked me or not...."
Whoa - really? Do you guys wait 5 days? I usually call after 2. Like I'll go out on a Friday, and then call on a Monday. Bad move?
 

Phyzzle

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
1,963
Reaction score
35

“The 22 Rules That Flip the Script With Women… And How You Can Use Them Tonight”

Most guys accidentally kill attraction before they even speak. They assume they need a bigger bank account, a better physique, or smoother lines. They miss the point.

Female desire operates on a specific set of psychological triggers.  Break them, and you're invisible. Follow them, and you become magnetic.

I learned this the hard way. Years of freezing up. Getting friend-zoned. Watching other guys walk away with the girl I wanted. Then I discovered a set of 22 simple rules that rewired my entire approach.

Read more...

MikeEdward1973

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
276
Reaction score
9

Bible_Belt

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
17,577
Reaction score
6,360
Age
50
Location
midwestern cow field 40
Did I ask you already if you kiss them on the first date? I can't remember. The best door-to-door salesman I ever met either closed the deal or got thrown out of the house. There was no in-between. He who hesitates is not closing deals.

And out of curiosity, how many manly-man, high-testosterone elements do you have in your life? I am guessing the list is short. It's obvious that you're an intelligent, successful guy, but you may not be emitting the kind of dominant vibe that makes women return your calls because they want sex.
 

MikeEdward1973

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
276
Reaction score
9
Bible_Belt said:
Did I ask you already if you kiss them on the first date? I can't remember. The best door-to-door salesman I ever met either closed the deal or got thrown out of the house. There was no in-between. He who hesitates is not closing deals.

And out of curiosity, how many manly-man, high-testosterone elements do you have in your life? I am guessing the list is short. It's obvious that you're an intelligent, successful guy, but you may not be emitting the kind of dominant vibe that makes women return your calls because they want sex.
Dude, you know what? I am lacking in testosterone-laden stuff. I will give you that. Not to say I don't have testosterone. But it's just that, well, you got it right, I reek of white-collar, overly-intellectual, 'nice guy.' But I think I can change that. I'm optimistic. I do get a lot of at-bats. But not many base hits.

So for kissing, I do it if the opportunity presents itself, and I do try to press that issue. Not in a bad way, but my body-language, etc., after a date does show I'm looking to kiss. Sometimes they dodge it, and sometimes they dig it.
 

Bible_Belt

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
17,577
Reaction score
6,360
Age
50
Location
midwestern cow field 40
Yeah, that's the trap of the intellectual. I suggest risk-taking behavior of some sort. Adrenaline hobbies are good. Obviously, find something that you actually enjoy, but men who engage in risk are attractive to women in some primal genetic or chemical way.

With the kissing, yeah, press the issue. If she will look into your eyes as you touch her hair, then she wants to make out with you, and you are a wuss for not kissing her (this is what I tell myself when it is happening). I have had women lose all control after one kiss, and I have also had some fantastic failures, too , one girl cringed like I was about to molest her, but you are still much better off to have tried and got shot down than to have not tried at all. I feel like if I don't try to kiss any girl I'm with, then the time spent with her was wasted. Salesman close the deal while the buying temperature is hot. They don't expect to show up and close a prospect a few days later. I knew one salesman guy who even had t-shirts printed for his sales crew that said 'No Call-Backs." If you wait until date 2 to kiss her, then her buying temperature has dropped, and you have to put more work into getting her where she already was when you wussed out the first time. Plus, even if you don't have sex immediately, if you have a steamy good-night kiss, she will think about you non-stop and work up her own buying temperature for date 2. And she will be more inclined to return calls.
 

jophil28

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
5,216
Reaction score
278
Location
Gold Coast. Aust.
Bible_Belt said:
Yeah, that's the trap of the intellectual. I suggest risk-taking behavior of some sort. Adrenaline hobbies are good. Obviously, find something that you actually enjoy, but men who engage in risk are attractive to women in some primal genetic or chemical way.

With the kissing, yeah, press the issue. If she will look into your eyes as you touch her hair, then she wants to make out with you, and you are a wuss for not kissing her (this is what I tell myself when it is happening). I have had women lose all control after one kiss, and I have also had some fantastic failures, too , one girl cringed like I was about to molest her, but you are still much better off to have tried and got shot down than to have not tried at all. I feel like if I don't try to kiss any girl I'm with, then the time spent with her was wasted. Salesman close the deal while the buying temperature is hot. They don't expect to show up and close a prospect a few days later. I knew one salesman guy who even had t-shirts printed for his sales crew that said 'No Call-Backs." If you wait until date 2 to kiss her, then her buying temperature has dropped, and you have to put more work into getting her where she already was when you wussed out the first time. Plus, even if you don't have sex immediately, if you have a steamy good-night kiss, she will think about you non-stop and work up her own buying temperature for date 2. And she will be more inclined to return calls.
Mike read this a few times - it is right on the money..
 

"She Liked You in March. It's October Now."

Attraction runs on a clock.

She flirted for weeks. Touched your arm. Found reasons to be alone with you. And you were careful. Respectful. Waiting for the right moment.

The moment had a shelf life. It expired around month two, and by the time you asked her out, she'd quietly filed you under "little brother."

One of the hardest lessons inside the 22 Rules: women rarely wait. Interest either grows or it decays, and nothing decays it faster than a man who never moves.

Make the move while she's still inventing reasons to be near you.

Read more...

Top