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First date - failed to make a move

RickTheToad

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Like I said, I do have good options for the after dinner activity already. I agree that maybe I jumped the gun on dinner, but that is besides the point now. Typically, I don’t do dinner on a second date, but alas, that is what will happen now.

As for escalating with kino earlier on, I may try to arrange us to sit at the bar at the restaurant we are going to. It will likely be busy, so it would be an easy way to sit side by side and make it less formal and allow for some kino to occur. But aside from that, any suggestions on the escalation, aside from just reminding me that dinner before sex is not the right idea?

It’s worked out in the past, where second date dinner and activity has been just fine. Just needing pointers on building kino/escalating with dinner dates, if possible.

Part of the reason I went the dinner-route is, despite my better knowledge, this girl is a winner (HB8-9 and great personality, entirely my type, which gets to my head at times). I know it doesn’t mean much, but we did vibe really well on the first date, and it made me kick myself for not making the move on that date.


For example, when picking up a date, do you wait in your car or do you meet them at their door for an easy chance to kino right away?
You're heading for disaster dude. Might as well just open a window and throw the money out the window as you are driving. At least you would receive a better value.

1) Just change for drinks and an apps. You will not get into her pants through food and drink. She's seeing you again, so that is a good sign. She'll have more respect for you if you do not follow the same M.O. as so many other dudes. Be different. Drinks and apps only. If you get a third date, you go to her place or she goes to yours and you cook a meal and "watch a movie".

2) Sit next to her, not across. You need to conduct the kino subtlety. Here's a good intro video. It's pretty basic, but works to help escalate.


3) Stop with the dinner dates. Stop putting these ladies on a pedestal. You taking out to dinner is putting them on a pedestal. They've not earned a dinner date yet.

4) When you first see her, give her a hug, hold it for around 3 seconds and smile. Make sure you are wearing some good cologne too. A spray behind both ears and top of one hand, smack them together (the top of both hands) and you are good to go. Spray about 30 minutes prior to meet.

5) Don't tell her the activity, if you listen to us, and only do dinner and drinks, after you are done, you take her hand and say come with me, we're going to do something fun. Then go to the event. If you are doing the activity first, after the activity, say I'm a bit thirsty, let's grab a drink and something to eat. subtle kino builds report. Then, follow some of the video points above.

6) Most importantly, have a good time!
 

BJP1991

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5) Don't tell her the activity, if you listen to us, and only do dinner and drinks, after you are done, you take her hand and say come with me, we're going to do something fun. Then go to the event. If you are doing the activity first, after the activity, say I'm a bit thirsty, let's grab a drink and something to eat. subtle kino builds report. Then, follow some of the video points above.

6) Most importantly, have a good time!

For #5, my plan is dinner first and an activity second, a drink or two will fall in there whenever most appropriate with time. I think cancelling the dinner portion seems extreme at this point and might not convey the right message now. The place I’m taking her isn’t anything fancy by any means, just a little place that makes for a good date and I would bet she’s never been there before either.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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Makes sense, but I thought DJ was not the PUA community?

I’ve narrowed down my options, and my plan will be dinner followed by an activity, other than bowling or pool/darts, since those are kind of generic and not as cool as what my city has to offer.

As far as trying to escalate earlier in the date, what would you recommend since I’ve sort of pigeon-holed myself with the dinner part happening first in the date.
I always do drinks or coffee. Inexpensive and something I can bounce locations from easily. Enough time to screen for dtf or not.

Esculate is a simple process of making it routine. As in, chick you won't ever see again but, you makeout just because "I'm that guy." Esculate just because "life's too ****in boring not to try." golden mindset to internalise.

Example, i picked up a cute brunette eons ago. She was cute and made the pickup easy. Stated what i was doing, where i was going. She asked how would she know if i was going. I took he4 digits.

It was dead thereafter. Met up at a local pub. The chick was a college girl, feminist, SJW and combative **** to the max.

I still made out with her full well knowing I'd never talk to her again.

Its lame that the spark was better as strangers then in knowing her.


Bjp mate, it's all practice.

Focus on the cultivation of being "that guy" > any one particular outcome or plate.

Cancel, change location, and pick inexpensive coffee or drinks. Furthermore, dinner is beta, more expensive than the alternative, and undeserving till proven otherwise. Bouncing from coffee or drinks to movie at your/her place is a simple transition then dinner which guarantee you postpone sex. Don't do that.

If not any chemistry, inexpensive is no harm or foul.
 

BJP1991

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I always do drinks or coffee. Inexpensive and something I can bounce locations from easily. Enough time to screen for dtf or not.

Esculate is a simple process of making it routine. As in, chick you won't ever see again but, you makeout just because "I'm that guy." Esculate just because "life's too ****in boring not to try." golden mindset to internalise.

Example, i picked up a cute brunette eons ago. She was cute and made the pickup easy. Stated what i was doing, where i was going. She asked how would she know if i was going. I took he4 digits.

It was dead thereafter. Met up at a local pub. The chick was a college girl, feminist, SJW and combative **** to the max.

I still made out with her full well knowing I'd never talk to her again.

Its lame that the spark was better as strangers then in knowing her.


Bjp mate, it's all practice.

Focus on the cultivation of being "that guy" > any one particular outcome or plate.

Cancel, change location, and pick inexpensive coffee or drinks. Furthermore, dinner is beta, more expensive than the alternative, and undeserving till proven otherwise. Bouncing from coffee or drinks to movie at your/her place is a simple transition then dinner which guarantee you postpone sex. Don't do that.

If not any chemistry, inexpensive is no harm or foul.

Cancelling the dinner portion would be more beta than going through with it, at this point. The plan is easy dinner out, then an activity and a drink afterwards. Should be fine, really. Everyone is really getting their panties in a bundle about not doing dinner on a second date, but personally, I’ve maybe only once or twice gone on a dinner date that didn’t result in sex or at least another date the following week.

I’m confident I can make it a good time for her with the current plan. Changing it now, just a couple days beforehand, would not be the confident thing to do and would probably make me come off as uncertain to her, regardless of whatever fake excuse I give to get out of the dinner part. Unless you guys have some real winners or examples of doing this, I don’t feel comfortable with it
 

samspade

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Cancelling the dinner portion would be more beta than going through with it, at this point. The plan is easy dinner out, then an activity and a drink afterwards. Should be fine, really. Everyone is really getting their panties in a bundle about not doing dinner on a second date, but personally, I’ve maybe only once or twice gone on a dinner date that didn’t result in sex or at least another date the following week.

I’m confident I can make it a good time for her with the current plan. Changing it now, just a couple days beforehand, would not be the confident thing to do and would probably make me come off as uncertain to her, regardless of whatever fake excuse I give to get out of the dinner part. Unless you guys have some real winners or examples of doing this, I don’t feel comfortable with it
Do you want advice or not?

Look, you're the man, you pay, you're in charge of the date. Just say "I have to work a couple hours late, let's just meet for drinks at X time." Or something came up if you can't use work as an excuse. The "confident thing to do" is what you want. However like I said, if you're hell bent on dinner, have a great date. Just don't call it "beta" or tell us we're getting our panties in a bundle. At the end of the day it's you on the date and not us. We only care insofar as we are here to give the best advice possible, but you're protesting. If you're worried about looking beta because you're changing plans, then yes, you will look beta. If you think she might bail, that is always a risk and not something that should concern you.

What is ideal is either a drinks situation where you're sitting close so you can kino, or the activity (+ drinks if it's bowling or pool or whatever) so you can be doing something, tease her, and kino. You can also do a venue change (or cut out early) more easily than if you're sitting for an hour plus for dinner.

It doesn't matter so much when the kiss happens, just go for it when it feels right. Most women give a sign. Some don't. But I think mid-date is fun because it relieves a little pressure, sets a tone, and plus you know you'll get more of a makeout toward the end, maybe more than that if things go well. In other words a mid-date kiss is like a mini kiss-close, and since we're always looking for short cuts this helps speed things up with her comfort level with you. But go with the flow, don't be so locked in that you forget to have fun.

The problem with dinner is it slows things down, and is not kino conducive unless you're sitting very close. And even then, first you're hungry, then there's the ordering, then there's the eating (elbows are up, forks in hand), then you're full, etc. To me it's something I do with a girlfriend and not a pre-sex date. You're just sitting there and dealing with dinner instead of each other. If your game is such that you can surpass these obstacles, then go for it, but listen to what the guys on this thread are telling you, at least. Most of us are saying "no dinner" because we've made the mistake in the past and learned from it.
 
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BJP1991

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Do you want advice or not?

Look, you're the man, you pay, you're in charge of the date. Just say "I have to work a couple hours late, let's just meet for drinks at X time." Or something came up if you can't use work as an excuse. The "confident thing to do" is what you want. However like I said, if you're hell bent on dinner, have a great date. Just don't call it "beta" or tell us we're getting our panties in a bundle. At the end of the day it's you on the date and not us. We only care insofar as we are here to give the best advice possible, but you're protesting. If you're worried about looking beta because you're changing plans, then yes, you will look beta. If you think she might bail, that is always a risk and not something that should concern you.

What is ideal is either a drinks situation where you're sitting close so you can kino, or the activity (+ drinks if it's bowling or pool or whatever) so you can be doing something, tease her, and kino. You can also do a venue change (or cut out early) more easily than if you're sitting for an hour plus for dinner.

It doesn't matter so much when the kiss happens, just go for it when it feels right. Most women give a sign. Some don't. But I think mid-date is fun because it relieves a little pressure, sets a tone, and plus you know you'll get more of a makeout toward the end, maybe more than that if things go well. In other words a mid-date kiss is like a mini kiss-close, and since we're always looking for short cuts this helps speed things up with her comfort level with you. But go with the flow, don't be so locked in that you forget to have fun.

The problem with dinner is it slows things down, and is not kino conducive unless you're sitting very close. And even then, first you're hungry, then there's the ordering, then there's the eating (elbows are up, forks in hand), then you're full, etc. To me it's something I do with a girlfriend and not a pre-sex date. You're just sitting there and dealing with dinner instead of each other. If your game is such that you can surpass these obstacles, then go for it, but listen to what the guys on this thread are telling you, at least. Most of us are saying "no dinner" because we've made the mistake in the past and learned from it.
Great post, thank you for leveling with me a bit here. I don’t mean to come off as protesting and I’m sorry if I did that way. I should let you all know that your help and guidance is always appreciated and has led me to success in the past, with my own added element to it. I think everyone is different and comfortable with certain things.

Like many of you, I’ve had early on dates that are only dinner that never led to anything. I agree, just dinner is a bad idea. But dinner AND something else? I guess I don’t really see what’s wrong what the latter, since it would allow kino/etc to occur after dinner.

I would think dinner first, with an activity + drinks second still allows for all of the same kino/chemistry though, right? I agree that doing what I feel most confident with will probably yield the best results.

Plus, this is a girl I feel I want to be courtful towards, but I also know what to do to avoid being a “nice guy” type. The dinner place I’m thinking of is a place where you generally share orders with someone, and if there’s bar seating I plan to go for that as a first option.

I could still cancel dinner and just do the activity plus drinks. I wonder if some of you are missing the aspect where I say that dinner isn’t the focus of the date, and rather just a component (happening to be the first component, with activity + brewery in the same venue as the bigger, more active components)
 

samspade

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If the dinner is super casual, like you're grabbing tacos or tapas or something, it's not gonna sink you. As long as it's not The Four Seasons or some stuffy place, you can probably just roll with your plans. Not every rule is ironclad and you've still got to go with what you think is best. There are a lot of possibilities to eat with a girl early on that can work. Anything that's inexpensive, and incorporates some kind of shared experience might work. Like a food truck at a beach, an outdoor beer garden with bratwursts on the grill, a sports/games bar where you share an appetizer, etc.

I would NOT do: Anything "fancy" or expensive; anything involving a long sit-down; fast food; family restaurants like Perkins or Denny's.

But why don't you explain it to us if you have doubts. If not, go with your gut.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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Cancelling the dinner portion would be more beta than going through with it, at this point. The plan is easy dinner out, then an activity and a drink afterwards. Should be fine, really. Everyone is really getting their panties in a bundle about not doing dinner on a second date, but personally, I’ve maybe only once or twice gone on a dinner date that didn’t result in sex or at least another date the following week.
Women ghost, flake, fall off without recourse. I start my Houdini disappearing act like clock work. Dread game is OG.

I’m confident I can make it a good time for her with the current plan. Changing it now, just a couple days beforehand, would not be the confident thing to do and would probably make me come off as uncertain to her, regardless of whatever fake excuse I give to get out of the dinner part. Unless you guys have some real winners or examples of doing this, I don’t feel comfortable with it
Lol

Cause women never change plans or thrir minds lololol

Good luck either way.
 

backseatjuan

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It went well basically.....We leave the establishment
You know what went wrong don’t you? I’m guessing you did not flirt. If you did you’d suggest a different venue or setting and escalate. It was platonic boring fun sht.. towards friendship.

Man, you know women are bored with boring sht, they want a pimp.


None will admit they want to get fcked on first date, they will even misinterpret it. But they all want your dck all over their face within hours of meeting you, all yiu gotta do is take initiative and control.

Inner game man, hit that.
 

Medina

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Wtf did i just read?

I ****kkk on what betas call 1st date.

My recent work includes Monday night skull **** and a mid week parkin lot throater.

#nextset

I swear a lot of guys really need to get their testosterone checked.

Hard for a kiss? My ****kkk gets hard and I tell her what to do.

Her ability to follow my lead is the determining factor in whether her assistance will be required in the future. SRS

Too aggressive lulz

You guys kill me. Also make doing the Robbery like child's play.

Please continue on amateur hour game.

I'd like to see someone try parkin lot finger blast during the make out.

I would skull **** a slut and some delusional DJ will preach here about he found a perfect girl but she made him wait.



Meanwhile my proteins are doing the backstroke in her anal cavity and digestive tract.

You wut mate?
What the **** are you talking about
Lmfao
 

Scars

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"It's always better to make a move and get rejected, than be labeled as the guy who is too much of a pvssy to make a move." - Scars
 

BackInTheGame78

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If a girl is interested at all none of this should really matter all that much, seriously. I personally would never feel comfortable to kiss some woman I went on a date with for the first time, as I see that as way too intimate with a stranger.
And that's why you have such a low success rate. You don't understand how to be comfortable around women you just meet to do things like that so in turn they pick up on your discomfort and something seems "off" about you. In turn it sends them running for the hill. FAST. That type of feeling makes them SOOOOO uneasy that you may as well tell them you are a serial killer. I am being dead ass serious bro.

You need to figure out what is causing this and correct it or you will continue having the same issues. Is it some mental block? Do you get nervous? Are you not confident enough in yourself to just go for it?

I mean plenty of dudes are fvcking on first dates so for you to not feel comfortable to even make a move to kiss means you are well behind the curve.
 

BackInTheGame78

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For #5, my plan is dinner first and an activity second, a drink or two will fall in there whenever most appropriate with time. I think cancelling the dinner portion seems extreme at this point and might not convey the right message now. The place I’m taking her isn’t anything fancy by any means, just a little place that makes for a good date and I would bet she’s never been there before either.
Don't ever schedule dinner dates with women you are not banging unless it's you cooking alone with them at one of your places.
 

CopperHead

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3) Stop with the dinner dates. Stop putting these ladies on a pedestal. You taking out to dinner is putting them on a pedestal. They've not earned a dinner date yet.
A lot of times when I take a woman out it is after work, after the gym, scheduled around a busy schedule. I need to eat. So it makes sense that food or dinner would be involved. I'm not talking about a fancy expensive dinner, but I need to eat. Usually if its a first date I will take them to get coffee first. Why is getting dinner putting them on a pedestal?
 

mrgoodstuff

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A lot of times when I take a woman out it is after work, after the gym, scheduled around a busy schedule. I need to eat. So it makes sense that food or dinner would be involved. I'm not talking about a fancy expensive dinner, but I need to eat. Usually if its a first date I will take them to get coffee first. Why is getting dinner putting them on a pedestal?
Dinner became a not good first or second date when the phenomina of the "dinner guy" popped up due to social media. Guys will use one guy for dinner and entertainment, and fvck another guy who would never do those things.

This website is focused on dealing with babes who already like you and not forcing them to like you. In our society if she likes you enough the legs will open, there are no stigmas anymore.

I'm cool with dinner if I know we have a strong mutual like of each other. This is proven because we have sex and good times. But to be used as a "dinner guy", to butter her up, so Tyrone or Chad can tear her up, and he's like "it's better for me", that you swole her emotions and gassed her up.
 

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RickTheToad

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A lot of times when I take a woman out it is after work, after the gym, scheduled around a busy schedule. I need to eat. So it makes sense that food or dinner would be involved. I'm not talking about a fancy expensive dinner, but I need to eat. Usually if its a first date I will take them to get coffee first. Why is getting dinner putting them on a pedestal?
Quit the dinner sh it and you'd be in a better place. You want to give them a piece of pizza or an app with a coke/water/tea, sure. Dinner before anything sexual, no go.
 

RangerMIke

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Putting you hands on a chick and trying to kiss her when you first meet shows no class. You didn't do anything wrong. I don't even try anything with a woman until she is giving me the green light... with experience it's a gut feeling... or she is touching you first.

If she's interested she will let you know.... as long as you know how to read the signs.

It's not a problem taking a chick to dinner on a first date, if this is what you do and what you like... and of course have the money to do it.... but don't take her anyplace in an effort to impress her.
 

Lookatu

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Just like guys that look for booty calls, there are a lot of gals just looking for foodie calls these days. So dinner on first couple dates to me is a no no merely due to this aspect.
Hell, I sometimes mention this if it comes up in conversation on a date and it makes the gal feel like they have to pickup the tab for drinks, which they do sometimes. LOL

Here's a story around making moves on the first date or kissing on the first date:
I'm usually a talkative guy to Lyft and Uber drivers when I'm getting a ride and whenever I talk about dating, they ALL tell me that girls that talk about their first date with them wished that they had been kissed.

If it's going good and the vibe is there, there is no reason not to kiss. Usually for me, no first date kisses mean I'll never see them again.

Once again, it's being able to evaluate the situation on whether it's actually going good and calibrating accordingly. Calibration is key here.
My $.02
 
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