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Fear of Rejection? Understand what you are actually afraid of

Barrister

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What I'm saying is that these opportunities basically just fall into a man's lap. As I mentioned to @BackInTheGame78 , men aren't doing things like toastmasters or taking acting/improvisation classes to work on their verbal game. Most men aren't going out multiple nights per week actively approaching large numbers of women or going to social/dating events regularly, those suck btw. Most men are just going about living their lives and at some point their paths cross with a woman that happens to be single and is into them to at least some degree. At that point in time and in situations like this, these women are either interested or not. A man could be in the middle of some massive self improvement and he gets rejected but when these efforts align together a couple years down the road she would have been interested in that version of him. Again, it's all just a combination of timing and luck.

I personally believe that if you need to spend a ton of time and energy into getting anywhere in the dating world there is something very wrong, not necessarily with you as an individual but it could heavily be related to the overall social scene of your area and the women in it, things you have no control over.
Again, I will agree with your comments - to an extent. But most men aren't approaching at all. It isn't just that they aren't doing some desperate toastmasters or speed dating event. It is that they are too petrified to even talk to women and have no clue on how to maximize their success with talking to them.

No one here is advocating to just spam approach women either. It is a learned skill to know when it is opportune to do so and how to do it without it coming off desperate. A contingent of men on this forum seem like they have cold approached once in their life, gotten shut down, and then just given up because they don't look like Brad Pitt or have Warren Buffet's money.

It isn't so much that I think you're wrong as you sound pretty fatalistic when it comes to being successful with women. That is where I think you are missing the mark a bit -- IMO.
 

Mike32ct

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Agree with Sang. A lot of guys just fall into relationships without really trying very much.

Probably luck (ie right place at right time).

Or what might be happening some of the time is that some chick actively or passively seeks out a specific social circle guy because of his look and/or job/business.
 
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BackInTheGame78

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Most men that are in relationships didn't spend months or years putting endless amounts of their energy into trying to find a woman. Most men just lived their lives and at some point their path was crossed with a woman that was by chance single at that time and also open/interested in these men. Men didn't go to PUA bootcamps or need to do toastmasters or go to nightlife venues on a weekly basis approaching endless amount of women. These men literally just wake up, go to school or work, maybe they have some friends and a few hobbies they enjoy and at some point a woman just falls in line for them. This is the reality for the vast majority of men that are dating or in relationships, obviously there are exceptions to this though.
I wasn't referring to women but in general. In some ways it could be applied to women too.
 

2Rocky

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How would a mid 30s guy with no social proof go about this?
Be the "Mysterious Stranger" befriend the guys who are with the attractive women. If you have the social skills and can hang with them, they say "Hey Rocky is cool.." But having the social ability to meet other guys and not come off as a threat, while bringing some value, is the key.

Just like approaching women there is a Gatekeeper. you will see him checking on folks doing a fair bit of talking but it's not about him. That's the guy you want to notice you and strike up a conversation... share some of your beer pitcher with him, compliment his outfit, talk about something he mentioned and you eavesdropped...
 

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Suave88

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I think part of the issue with men who fear rejection from women to the point they won't approach them is they are looking at it from the wrong angle.

Anytime you approach a woman no matter what the result of the interaction, you receive valuable feedback. However, it's only valuable if you do something with it.

Being rejected by a woman is giving you constructive criticism. Basically it says whatever you are doing didn't work to get the result you wanted. However, it also gives you various levels of feedback. The type and lengths of the interactions, what went well and what didn't, etc.

All of this requires some type of commitment to improving your interactions over time and some introspection to determine what you need to work on and/or change.

The issue as I see it is too many people are afraid of receiving critical feedback. You need to greatly increase your feedback threshold level.

The secondary issue is you have low self-worth. So before you continue to work on getting better with women, you need to get better with yourself.
In fact, people afraid of rejection by definition have low self-worth because you are putting so much importance on another person's opinion of you that it greatly overshadows your own opinion of yourself.

Your opinion of yourself should always be the most important opinion and other people's opinions shouldn't have an effect on it.
My fear of rejection comes from bytches play hot and cold, asking about me at the personal level at first, getting personal, then, she be mentioning her husband or asking about other dude, but her reaction could be the result of me taking too long to ask her out and being rejected because of shyt she is saying I cannot really assimilate and prompts me to take step backs. I believe I should concentrate on the objective and not the obstacles.
 

sangheilios

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Again, I will agree with your comments - to an extent. But most men aren't approaching at all. It isn't just that they aren't doing some desperate toastmasters or speed dating event. It is that they are too petrified to even talk to women and have no clue on how to maximize their success with talking to them.

No one here is advocating to just spam approach women either. It is a learned skill to know when it is opportune to do so and how to do it without it coming off desperate. A contingent of men on this forum seem like they have cold approached once in their life, gotten shut down, and then just given up because they don't look like Brad Pitt or have Warren Buffet's money.

It isn't so much that I think you're wrong as you sound pretty fatalistic when it comes to being successful with women. That is where I think you are missing the mark a bit -- IMO.
I agree that many men are not approaching women that are ultimately strangers, though there are a multitude of reasons for this. One could definitely be related to a lack of social confidence, it's difficult to approach a totally random woman in an environment where you have no reason to interact with her and on top of this get her to like you in a very short span of time. Something else to consider is that many women feel uncomfortable when random men approach them and will auto reject. Sure, some of this could be due to a bad approach but I've witnessed this before and the vibe I noticed was that they often had no clue as to what was going on and what to do. Another factor is that in modern society interaction with other people is not really normal, how often is it you go to a grocery store and start talking to random strangers? Most people just do their own thing and mind their business with little to no social interaction.

It also doesn't help when the overall dating market is severely warped, with women grossly overestimating themselves whilst often severely underestimating most men. I've said this a million times on here, but I'm a white male that is in my early 30s and 6'4" and around 235-240 and one of the fittest guys at the gym I go to. I have 17" arms and a 47" chest, etc. Anyway, I've had women tell me I have a "dad bod" or point out an obese woman and tell me that is my league. A few years ago I was out with some friends and one of them wanted to talk to this group of women, they were honestly slightly below average, and one of them start criticizing my appearance. Most men are not built like I am and if someone like me experiences this I can't even imagine what a more average or even below average man goes through. The end result is given enough of these experiences these men will stop approaching, which is totally rational on their end btw. There's a reason why PUA bootcamps and all these youtube channels about "game" and approaching women, working on speaking skills, etc. are so popular today. Also a reason why there are so many channels talking about the red pill, modern dating issues and entire forums dedicated to incels, etc.
 
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DonJuanjr

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and one of them start criticizing my appearance.
I don't think it means disinterest. There was a bar chick that I could have banged, but messed it up due to logistics. She was willing. Earlier in the night she was criticizing my wearing white socks with black shoes(under pants)...
 

DonJuanjr

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I'm a white male that is in my early 30s and 6'4" and around 235-240 and one of the fittest guys at the gym I go to. I have 17" arms
Flexed or cold? At 5'6 I have 16.25" arms flexed and with a pump. So I'd hope for your height you mean cold and not flexed. Otherwise that's not as jacked for your height as you'd think.
 

sangheilios

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Flexed or cold? At 5'6 I have 16.25" arms flexed and with a pump. So I'd hope for your height you mean cold and not flexed. Otherwise that's not as jacked for your height as you'd think.
You just said that you had a pump, by that I'm assuming you mean pumping up with a ton of curls and stuff. That makes a huge difference, just in case you didn't know. For someone your height it's highly unlikely you have arms that size unless you are on steroids, and it would look bad on your frame btw. Most bodybuilder types are in horrendous shape btw, not sure if you are aware of this or not, and it's not something that I even remotely strive for. They also are predominately of "manlet" status, so with that in combination with steroids and not actually being in shape it looks comical to say the least.
 

DonJuanjr

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For someone your height it's highly unlikely you have arms that size unless you are on steroids,
Actually I got them to that size as a natty... But I don't think my arms are even big. If I measure cold, and straight, they're a hair over 13". I'm just saying for your height it's not jacked... If you're talking pumped and flexing.
 
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BadWatermelon

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I've come to realize that often my approach anxiety doesn't come from the woman, it comes from everyone else. Will her boyfriend show up while I'm approaching her? Will the other waitress be mad that I didn't ask her out? Will one of the other girls see me strike out, and then I won't have a chance with her?

Add to this that women complain all the time about being approached by creeps.
 

DonJuanjr

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Add to this that women complain all the time about being approached by creeps.
They're only creeps because they weren't attracted to them. It has nothing to do with the character of the approacher. I was probably the "creep" for some women. I don't care...
 

sangheilios

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Actually I got them to that size as a natty... But I don't think my arms are even big. If I measure cold, and straight, they're a hair over 13". I'm just saying for your height it's not jacked... If you're talking pumped and flexing.
You have no idea what you are talking about lol. Anyway, this is deviating away from the topic of the thread.
 

DonJuanjr

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You have no idea what you are talking about lol. Anyway, this is deviating away from the topic of the thread.
Okay... Sure thing... Keep mentioning how "jacked" you are, and why females don't respond to the physique. I think it's important for those that are perplexed by your height, and supposed jackedness to see that might not really be that jacked. People are thinking your physique is more impressive than it is, when you describe yourself. For example, when you say "most jacked in the gym" I'm picturing you having 20" arms at least... Your gym must be full of DYELS... But anyways... back to the thread topic...
 

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BackInTheGame78

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Every time you approach a woman you’re supporting her value. If that comes coupled with rejection too many times, guys give up (unless he’s Indian).

Not approaching is sometimes the best option. Especially if you’re constantly rejected. You’re just elevating female egos (simping) and not getting any returns. It’s embittering.

Men approach when they get good feedback. Men don’t approach when the legal system is insane (#metoo) and 90% of “high value women” have broken hymens.
The problem is usually they continue to do the same things that aren't working over and over again without any type of thought put in into where they are going wrong in the interaction or what they could be doing better.

Cold approaching is tough because you don't know the status of the woman you are approaching.

It's kinda like doing cold calling for sales.

Is the woman on the market? If she is happily involved with someone it doesn't matter what you say you are likely getting rejected unless you are a 9 or 10 to her.

Is the woman interested in your product's appearance? This is how she views your looks. If you don't meet her looks threshold, it's an auto rejection.

Does your presentation make her want to buy your product? This is the area that you CAN control the MOST. This is your "sales pitch" so to speak or what you are talking with her about and how the conversation flows. It encompasses non-verbal things like body language and how you approach her, verbal things like the conversation, intonation, etc and how she feels as all this is going on.

Most people think they are losing out because of 1 or 2, but the reality is most people lose our because of #3. They don't create any desire in the woman for her to want to go out with them.

It's why you have some sales people who excel and others who are average and others that are bad. The people who excel are able to create a desire in the other person to buy their product by whatever means necessary, and for every person how they create that desire is going to be different. Same with woman...how you create that desire is going to be different with different women, you need to adjust on the fly to what she is giving you in terms of signals that tell you what the best approach will be. And that is tough, no doubt about it, but the people who get comfortable doing that are the ones who end up having the most success.
 

sangheilios

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The problem is usually they continue to do the same things that aren't working over and over again without any type of thought put in into where they are going wrong in the interaction or what they could be doing better.

Cold approaching is tough because you don't know the status of the woman you are approaching.

It's kinda like doing cold calling for sales.

Is the woman on the market? If she is happily involved with someone it doesn't matter what you say you are likely getting rejected unless you are a 9 or 10 to her.

Is the woman interested in your product's appearance? This is how she views your looks. If you don't meet her looks threshold, it's an auto rejection.

Does your presentation make her want to buy your product? This is the area that you CAN control the MOST. This is your "sales pitch" so to speak or what you are talking with her about and how the conversation flows. It encompasses non-verbal things like body language and how you approach her, verbal things like the conversation, intonation, etc and how she feels as all this is going on.

Most people think they are losing out because of 1 or 2, but the reality is most people lose our because of #3. They don't create any desire in the woman for her to want to go out with them.

It's why you have some sales people who excel and others who are average and others that are bad. The people who excel are able to create a desire in the other person to buy their product by whatever means necessary, and for every person how they create that desire is going to be different. Same with woman...how you create that desire is going to be different with different women, you need to adjust on the fly to what she is giving you in terms of signals that tell you what the best approach will be. And that is tough, no doubt about it, but the people who get comfortable doing that are the ones who end up having the most success.
Something that wasn't mentioned on here that is very important is that it's also a numbers game. Let's say the average success rate of an approach leading to an actual number and meeting up on a date is 10%, many women give out their numbers with little thought but may not be open to meeting up. If a man is only approaching a woman once per month that means he'd be getting 1 date per year, maybe 2 if he experiences some positive side variance. For many men, one of the biggest issues is due to a lack of access to women that are single and available. This may have nothing to do with "game" and simply be related to just not being in a set of circumstances that are conducive to meeting women.

The best opportunity is when young men are in college/university, as it's a predominately female environment and the majority of them will be single/unattached. After this period of time men may be in the career grind and maybe have a little bit of a social life where they hang out with some friends and engage in some hobbies. If a man is lacking a good social circle he will find it difficult to meet women IF he is also not in a set of circumstances where he crosses paths with many women. Some of this just comes naturally, as was mentioned on here, but you can put yourself in a place to further your odds. The problem is that with today's society this is not as easy as it used to be.

Many young women are constantly glued to their phones, which is a deterrent of social interaction from strangers. Single/dating events are complete trash, and no man should resort to something like this. Nightlife game is an option but it's not for most men out there and if one is looking for a relationship with at least a halfway quality woman this is not where you find one. Church is a good social atmosphere but if you aren't religious I'd steer clear of it. Outside of cold approaching, which is the most difficult means of meeting women, the only other real option is dating apps, which are also a terrible choice for men.

I feel bad for the average young man today, their parents and grandparents did not have to go through this much just to get a damn date from a non obese female, let alone actually form a relationship with one lol.
 

MtmVaott

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What I'm saying is that these opportunities basically just fall into a man's lap. As I mentioned to @BackInTheGame78 , men aren't doing things like toastmasters or taking acting/improvisation classes to work on their verbal game. Most men aren't going out multiple nights per week actively approaching large numbers of women or going to social/dating events regularly, those suck btw. Most men are just going about living their lives and at some point their paths cross with a woman that happens to be single and is into them to at least some degree. At that point in time and in situations like this, these women are either interested or not. A man could be in the middle of some massive self improvement and he gets rejected but when these efforts align together a couple years down the road she would have been interested in that version of him. Again, it's all just a combination of timing and luck.

I personally believe that if you need to spend a ton of time and energy into getting anywhere in the dating world there is something very wrong, not necessarily with you as an individual but it could heavily be related to the overall social scene of your area and the women in it, things you have no control over.
I'm not sure if you guys have yet realized this, but I'm saying it nonetheless: The Red Pill is not reality, it's just another layer of the matrix. It's still fixated on women to get motherly love and warmth. The end goal is still to end up with a woman.
After a certain age a boy is expected to leave mom's lap and walk towards danger, death, hardship, passing on wisdom, .... If you ever turn 180 degree on this path and try to go back again to sit in mother's lap, women will punish you for it.
You will only be afraid of getting rejected if you look in the wrong direction of the path.
 

thelambofdeth

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I think part of the issue with men who fear rejection from women to the point they won't approach them is they are looking at it from the wrong angle.

Anytime you approach a woman no matter what the result of the interaction, you receive valuable feedback. However, it's only valuable if you do something with it.

Being rejected by a woman is giving you constructive criticism. Basically it says whatever you are doing didn't work to get the result you wanted. However, it also gives you various levels of feedback. The type and lengths of the interactions, what went well and what didn't, etc.


All of this requires some type of commitment to improving your interactions over time and some introspection to determine what you need to work on and/or change.

The issue as I see it is too many people are afraid of receiving critical feedback. You need to greatly increase your feedback threshold level.

The secondary issue is you have low self-worth. So before you continue to work on getting better with women, you need to get better with yourself.
In fact, people afraid of rejection by definition have low self-worth because you are putting so much importance on another person's opinion of you that it greatly overshadows your own opinion of yourself.

Your opinion of yourself should always be the most important opinion and other people's opinions shouldn't have an effect on it.
This isn't true. She could be in a bad mood, you asked her at the wrong time or having a bad day or any one of 1,562,663 things that randomly influence women and you learn absolutely nothing, and if you're someone with approach anxiety, you take massive self-esteem hit. The point is you often DON'T receive critical feedback and you never know why you were unsuccessful bc too much of approaching is based on chance and circumstance.
 
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