Fat Loss (while still gaining muscle)

[Oxide]

I got a question, I just bought two things and would like your input:


First is Green Tea Extract. 300g extract, 500g additional green tea something. $2.98 at walmart for 50 capsules.

How many should I take daily and when?


2. Cod Liver Oil. With "natural orange flavor" Yeah. How often and how many, this thing tastes awful. Is this better than regular fish oil/flax?


And just to double check, I can process 70-80g of protein in a meal, right?

 

[simon]

Cod Liver Oil is decent in the winter if you're not getting enough Vitamin D, but it's also the cheapest source of Omega-3 for a reason.

Try to get the purest possible fish oil/cod liver oil. The company should tell you that it's been molecularly distilled, (gets rid of all the mercury, PCBs etc.) and that it's been third party tested + passed the various monographs.

And yeah...you can process that much protein. In the past when I've been pushed for time, I've had to eat 200g of protein in one sitting, and still grew fine. Wouldn't advise that though...always gives me a meat hangover.

 

[kickureface]

yes, you 'heard'. have you ever tried it? I heard that the earth was square - doesn't make it true!

45 mins of walking 6x a week is enough to get competitive bodybuilders shredded, and they're even more ripped than sprinters.

A brisk pace is one which is not slow but not too fast you're panting or can't hold a conversation while you're walking.

im curious as to why a slow pace for an extended time is optimal for fat loss compared to running quicker for a shorter time.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Whether you run 2 miles in 10 minutes or walk 2 miles in 20 minutes, you burn the same calories. So neither is better than the other in that respect. However higher intensity cardio burns a higher percentage of glycogen (and protein) rather than fat for energy. Low intensity cardio is protein sparing in that respect, running isn't - otherwise marathon runners wouldn't be skinny.

Alternatively: the signal you send to your (adaptive) body when running is to become a better runner. The body will do this by breaking down muscle as well as fat so you become lighter = hence, a better runner.

If you're ONLY concerned with fat/weight loss and not muscle preservation you can run to your heart's content. But expect to lose as much muscle as fat especially from the lower body.

 

[Skilla_Staz]

However higher intensity cardio burns a higher percentage of glycogen (and protein) rather than fat for energy. Low intensity cardio is protein sparing in that respect, running isn't - otherwise marathon runners wouldn't be skinny.

Higher percentage, but the high intensity stuff burns more fat by volume. Again, I'm going to relate to sprinters on this one. Even at the high school level, many teens become quite lean without losing much, if any muscle mass. I actually tend to gain some during that period of 3 months, often times becoming visibly leaner, while maintaining, if not increasing my overall weight.

 

[Warboss Alex]

How big are your high school sprinters? You can't tell me a 5'10" 220lb guy is going to maintain or gain muscular weight by sprinting.

Conversely if you're 150lbs, you can grow by brushing your teeth hard enough; the anabolic effect of sprinting can gain you some muscle if you haven't got much to begin with.

However don't mistake being leaner with actually growing. A lower bodyfat will give the illusion of a bigger muscle just 'cause it's more defined.

 

[guayaballer]

what if your goal is to be fast and strong? like terrel owens of the nfl or corey magette of the nba how do they maintain that muscle and are still fast

 

[kickureface]

i do not know what glycogen or protein have to do with anything (or much of what it is) so bleh.
and you said you lose more from your lower body, fat & muscle? what happened to the widely supported claim about no spot reduction?

either way, i use the stationary bike for cardio. about 20 mins at 80rpm average, getting me a good sweat. how should i know if im cycling too intensely?


thanks for your input

 

[Oxide]

alex, what do you consider big? 200? on a 6 foot guy

 

[typical]

However don't mistake being leaner with actually growing. A lower bodyfat will give the illusion of a bigger muscle just 'cause it's more defined.

Yep I have to agree with that, I went from 85 kilos to 80 kilos over 3 months starting last december and people thought I got bigger muscles, but they just looked bigger, its all in the eyes more defind muscles look bigger.

 

[betheman]

if a person is attemtping to lose fat and bulk up, become more defined. is weight loss expected and if so is it a good thing?
My understanding is that muscle is heavier than fat, therefore if you losing fat, building muscle, you will put weight on?
Ive got about 15lbs of fat I want to lose, I cant imagine putting that amount of muscle on?

 

[Twitch]

The thing about doing a recomp diet is that a recomp is way slower than cutting diet. I have found that my weight changes very little, but it did go down. To be honest it doesn't matter if you lose weight or not. It depends on the individual( the rate of fat lose vs. muscle gain will vary person to person diet to diet.)

 

[betheman]

excuse my ignorance but what is a recomp diet?

 

[Twitch]

A diet where you lose fat some days and gain muscle others. In the end your weight is likely to change less than a simple bulk or cut diet, but your body composition will be vastly different if done properly.

 

[betheman]

Thank you Twitch!

Ok, Im giving this a go, started 5 days ago, the workouts are fairly light but lots of reps, alternating workouts each day, incorporating light (walking ) cardio, 4 mins, 3-4 times per week.

Ive altered my diet significantly, being much more methodical, choosing select foods, weighing and measuring being that bit more scientific.

its obviously early days but this is feeling good already, however Im actually finding it difficult to eat enough, I jot down what I eat and eat small regular meals, ensuring I get enough protein, I just dont feel that Hungry, Im going to have to supplement with whey protein, due to the relatively light weight, I didnt feel the need for whey just yet but I will have to use it soon.

 

[Twitch]

Awesome! I am going to add some more tidbits and tips.

1. You can change the direction of a recomp from fatloss to lean muscle gain. There are 7 days a week and if you lift on 2 days these will be the days you eat excess calories(above your maintenence level, choose protein calories though). The other 5 will be focusing on slow diliberate fat loss. If you eat 500 above on the 2 lift days and 400 below(maintenance level) you will be in a 1000 calorie deficit(assuming you aren't gaining any muscle you would lose a pound of fat in 3 weeks, so if you are gaining muscle the weighing scale change will be minimal).

If you wanted to bulk you could keep the diet concept but just tweak the calorie levels and macro nutrient ratios. Like lifting 3x a week with a 600 surplus and 4 days with a 300 deficit would put you at 600 above maintence(you will gaining muscle if you are getting stronger)

You gain muscle and lose fat on both approaches, but see how one is geared towards muscle gain and one is geared towards fat loss.

2. You must be getting stronger if you want to gain muscle. The only exception to this is if you are running the juice, or are very advanced strength wise(350+ bench press, 450+ squat, 550+ deadlift). Don't do this "I am lifting light" sh1t. Lift with lower/heavier reps to improve strength.

3. Do fasted morning cardio. This is not going to be vigorious cardio(unless you are out of shape, then everything is going to be taxing). I do brisk walking in the morning on an empty stomach for my fasted morning cardio. Obviously the leaner I get the longer the walks are(to prevent fat loss stalling out). Start out with 15 minutes on your off days.

4. Carb control. Most people have such a skewed perception of carbs and fats. If we just called carbs "fats" and called fats "carbs" diet info would be much more solid. On your off days you are going to want to keep your carbs low. This is what allows you to lose fat.

Carbs become sugar once broken down. Sugar releases insulin. Insulin is a storage hormone. Your body can't liberate fat cells(lipolysis) in the presence of a insulin. Type 1 diabetics bodies attack insulin producing cells in the pancreas. Thus they can't produce insulin. As a result they eat a bunch of crap and stay very lean. Fatloss is not just calories in calories out. It is also hormone manipulation.

Eat low Glycemic Index fiberous carbs and keep the number low(vegetables and fruits, avoid grains). I usually go for 100 grams on a fatloss diet(eventually I get really really sparse with my carbs on some days to keep fat loss progressing). On a weight training day you can eat a bit more carbs(135-150).

Cluster your carbs. On a lifting day eat them after weight training. On a normal day eat them in the afternoon. This avoids putting your carbs in the morning(when you do you fasted cardio, which would be counter productive), and at night(when you get a big surge of HGH a few hours after you fall asleep).

5. Fiber Control. You need to regulate your fiber intake to prevent constipation(which will happen when you slip up). I eat flax seeds and psyllium husk powder to keep my fiber up. I also cut iron out of my multivitamin. If you get constipated, fvck the diet until you get that fixed. Take some stool softeners until you poop(softeners will not create a dependency like laxatives).

 

[betheman]

what is "running the Juice"? Im English and some of these things get lost mid atlantic!

looks like good advice again, one thing though, I was always led to believe that to bulk up, lots of reps are required whereas strength is gain from heavy weights/low reps? in terms of being more defined and losing fat, what is the advantage of the latter?

 

[Twitch]

what is "running the Juice"? Im English and some of these things get lost mid atlantic!

looks like good advice again, one thing though, I was always led to believe that to bulk up, lots of reps are required whereas strength is gain from heavy weights/low reps? in terms of being more defined and losing fat, what is the advantage of the latter?

Running the juice = AAS(Androgenic Anabolic Sterioids). Using lots of reps is optimal once you have a strength base in place(like say a pro bodybuilder, this is where the lots of reps thing originated). If you lift girl weights you will have a girl body though.

Training with lower reps(1-6) will help preserve muscle while losing fat. Most people think low reps=strength and high reps=muscle. In reality it is not as perfectly defined. There is a strength carryover from high reps and a muscle carryover from low reps. At the lower levels strength training will build the most muscle.

Let me be clear though, when bulking up you do need to stimulate the muscle. Trying to bulk up doing only 1 rep maxes won't be very effective because muscle isn't being stimulated. That is not to say 1 Rep maxes should not be done.

Here is a sample deadlift day that incorporates strength and "bodybuilding":
After warmup sets
Deadlift
Set 1- 1 rep at 90% (of 1 rep max)
Set 2- Same
Set 3- Same
Set 4- 5 reps at 85% of max
Set 5- 5 reps at 85% of max

Good mornings
2(sets)x8(reps) stop a few reps from failure

Dumbbell Rows
2x10 stop a few reps from failure

 

[j0n24]

Why would you start off with your max instead of the other way around...I'd rather do the pyramid if your going to try to do both.... low weight then up to your max at the end.

I do agree with a few points.

You can lose fat while still going up in weight albeit it slowely but you will still see results. I am not on a diet per se nor a bulk but I am seeing better definition as well as adding weight to my lifts.

Fasted cardio does work as well...although I would rather the person do sprints instead of slow cardio. Sprints last longer and ramp up the metabolism for longer so your body can break down fat longer.

Constipation SUCKS! I dont know how anyone can workout without having fiber on hand once you start getting constipated. Psyllium husk is nasty if you stir it up in your water due to it getting chunky but if you chase it with water its ok. Prune juice with milk also helps but thats alot of sugar so it would be best served in the morning.

 

[escobar04]

Losing fat is simple

cut calories while maintaining protein levels




there's no miracle science to it!

gain weight = increase calories
lose weight = drop calories