Every man I know who's gotten married has a sh**ty life

[FlexpertHamilton]

Couldn't one argue that you just haven't met that one woman that made you want to sleep over? Imagine an absolute 10 in appearance, personality, everything you wanted in a woman with the upmost loyalty to you, and you still wouldn't commit to her? If you're claiming you'd still walk away from that, then I'm concerned for this generation of men.

Nope, because I can't sleep like that and I value my sleep more than relationships. I'm also not a morning person, and I usually can't stand being around any 1 person intimately for more than 12 or so hours at a time. Exceptions are often made, but less out of desire and more out of willingness to compromise. Doesn't matter how hot she is or how much I like her.

My distaste for marriage is built upon a lot of preferences like this. These are just my preferences though. Point being, marriage is a huge commitment and men are too self-sacrificing, it's never about what he wants. If the marriage is built around the man's happiness, not hers, then and only then will I consider it a valid option.

 

[Barrister]

I have been married and been in multiple LTRs as an adult. I find that when I am single I generally feel more isolated but am much more at peace and overall "happier." Spinning plates gets exhausting after awhile, but the actual freedom to always do what I want to do without having to ever explain it to anyone is priceless in and of itself.

To those men who are really "happily married," good for them. I will never get married again. I value my own personal time and personal goals too much to bring someone else into the equation who is going to muck it all up. I am good with occasional LTRs where the woman will acknowledge my desire for freedom, but as soon as she begins to lose that understanding, she will be shown the door.

I will also add, almost every couple I know who has been married for over 10 years is usually in some state of unhappiness and/or pure apathy about the relationship/the other person and usually close to or at a dead bedroom. I can think of maybe 1 or 2 exceptions. To me, what is the point? My own parents have been married for close to 50 years now and can barely be in the room with each other for more than 2 minutes before a snide remark is made and bickering begins. If I die married with a wife who can barely stand me, is that supposed to be better than just dying by myself (outside of my kids who I hope are around)?

I am good with the single life of plates with the occasional LTR here or there.

 

[remarkable]

Nope, because I can't sleep like that and I value my sleep more than relationships. I'm also not a morning person, and I usually can't stand being around any 1 person intimately for more than 12 or so hours at a time. Exceptions are often made, but less out of desire and more out of willingness to compromise. Doesn't matter how hot she is or how much I like her.

My distaste for marriage is built upon a lot of preferences like this. These are just my preferences though. Point being, marriage is a huge commitment and men are too self-sacrificing, it's never about what he wants. If the marriage is built around the man's happiness, not hers, then and only then will I consider it a valid option.

That's fair, but now I wonder how you feel about fatherhood. Is being a parent and having children of any value to you?

 

[BaronOfHair]

@FlexpertHamilton "My distaste for marriage is built upon a lot of preferences like this"

Luckily, no one's pressing a loaded gun to your skull, forcing you(or any of us, for that matter)to walk down the aisle

Expending THIS much thought on the topic at hand is less productive than groaning endlessly over how awful tofu burgers taste, when one can simply chose to consume an Angus cheeseburger, Chilli dog, or grilled chicken sandwich instead

 

[Slowhandluke]

I have been married and been in multiple LTRs as an adult. I find that when I am single I generally feel more isolated but am much more at peace and overall "happier." Spinning plates gets exhausting after awhile, but the actual freedom to always do what I want to do without having to ever explain it to anyone is priceless in and of itself.

This is the reason why I think mother nature/ evolution made young women (almost all of them even the average ones) attractive to men. If young women were not that attractive, no man would submit to her and the human species would die out.

But yeah, being single does have its benefits...I really do like the freedom... not having to worry about the SO... not having my thoughts being 2nd guessed, etc. obviously in the past, it wasnt as bad.. women had deference towards their husbands and he was the "captain"... feminism took that away. And in a way, feminism, also took away women's beauty... feminism are brainwashing women to waste it away by glorifying careers and "discoverying oneself" during their most "attractive" years where they are the most beautiful - early 20's.

 

[remarkable]

obviously in the past, it wasnt as bad.. women had deference towards their husbands and he was the "captain"... feminism took that away. And in a way, feminism, also took away women's beauty... feminism are brainwashing women to waste it away by glorifying careers and "discoverying oneself" during their most "attractive" years where they are the most beautiful - early 20's.

It's hard for me to entirely blame women for pursuing higher education and higher paying jobs when a substantial amount of Gen Z men around them are working part time, if at all, and playing video games 12 hours a day. Is she supposed to give her best years to a deadbeat still trying to figure out his finances, his career while he lives in a studio apartment? I believe all of us would not want our daughters depending men like that.

My solution to 4th/5th wave feminism is for men to rise up and be better men, so that women can depend on and feel safe with their husbands. Then these women can focus on being a loyal, supportive wife, raising good children so that the home is contributing positively to society.

 

[Widowed]

So sorry for your loss, may I ask how you dealt with it all? Do you plan on getting back on the dating market or re-marrying?

Thank you, it has been a difficult road and still somewhat fresh (less than a year). I got married at 28 and had a great time during my single years. I do plan on getting back on the dating market but not sure about ever getting married again. Not that it always a bad thing but I did it and want to protect everything for my children. I joined this group to read, learn and figure out what the scene is like nowadays. I’ve been married half my life and my game is extremely rusty so I got a lot of learning to do. I did get comfortable while married and currently working on improving mind and body. I got a road to travel but looking forward to seeing where this all takes me. Any and all recommendations are appreciated and welcome.

 

[Slowhandluke]

It's hard for me to entirely blame women for pursuing higher education and higher paying jobs when a substantial amount of Gen Z men around them are working part time, if at all, and playing video games 12 hours a day.

Most men are not playing video games 12 hours a day. At the end of the day, one decides what one wants to do with their lives. If women want to "pursue" higher education (more college debt; more time "studying") and get higher paying jobs (more stress, less time to enjoy life); so be it. But don't complain about the consequences. Get the advanced degree. Get the 6-7 figure job.. But don't be "high and mighty" thinking they are all that and they "deserve" better. A woman who spends most of her twenties getting advance degrees and working long hours climbing the corporate later is not automatically "better" than the guy who decides to get one degree and take a less stressful and lower income job. Or decides to forgo traveling to another part of the country to make more money, but instead decides to stay closer to his relatives because he enjoys their company. Nobody lives forever. People die... No amount of money will be able to bring them back.

Is she supposed to give her best years to a deadbeat still trying to figure out his finances, his career while he lives in a studio apartment?

Yes... the average young woman did not earn her youth; her beauty. The "best years" of her life, she was given to her by nature - as a consequence for being a female. Men are not given this gift when they are younger. They have to work for it. The average man is not very attractive. Though out history, younger men did not have that much resources. The young men (with their wives) who were settlers on the great plains -- they were poor, and almost at the edge of starvation.. During the middle ages, most young men barely had food -- but their young wives were still with them. Though out history, most young men were "deadbeats"... because men get nothing when they are younger. Feminist have brainwashed young women to think they are better than average men. Just only 100 years ago, a lot of people were living in houses without indoor plumbing/ AC/ electricity. These young women were able to survive and love their husbands. Now we have young women complaining about "studio apartments"??? While complaining they can't find anyone? give me a break.

I believe all of us would not want our daughters depending <on> men like that <deadbeats>.

Average young women pair up quickly and with intention.. or date around and get no one. If one was a father, what would one like for his daughter to do? Aim for the stars like most young women are told to do today.... and like most older women today, get no one? These are the odds.. This is the reality...

Every father thinks their young daughter is special... Is a princess. But, on average, she is AVERAGE. His young daughter maybe pretty, but most young daughters are..

My solution to 4th/5th wave feminism is for men to rise up and be better men, so that women can depend on and feel safe with their husbands. Then these women can focus on being a loyal, supportive wife, raising good children so that the home is contributing positively to society.

Average men cannot be made to be above average. This is not how math works.. This is not how reality works. Women are too picky today. Their standards have been inflated by dating apps and society... But as we are now seeing, a lot of these women are going to be all alone. Oh well... the pendulum will swing the other way.. It always does. I can sorta feel it right now

 

[Bokanovsky]

I'm sorry in your social circle, most aren't happy in marriage.

But in a poll of 2.5 million people over a 14 year period reported here by CNN...

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/09/health/marriage-happiness-wellness

...married people are significantly happier than unmarried ones.

So it seems it's just the people you know.

You can't do this dating and seduction crap forever. When you're a senior citizen and remain unmarried, you won't have women in your life and you're just waiting to die.

Well, if it's poll reported by CNN, it must be absolutely true. No question about it.

 

[Bokanovsky]

one common thing among married ones:
For some reason they do allow their wives to talk bad about them.
That shows no respect.
I dont care about wheter that is considered normal, because women are emotional ones.
That is a huge turn off for a man bending his back to provide for his family.
That is why I wont commit, until I find one who doesnt do that ****

The foundations of a bad marriage are set early on (often even before the marriage itself). Any man who allows his wife to be his boss by delegating control over family finances and other important decisions to her is doomed to be miserable. If you act as a subordinate, you will be treated as one.

 

[Ricky]

I’m 9 years into my second marriage. I am very happy.

First marriage was awful though - at that time I came to this site to learn what I was doing wrong.

Forever wifey is a flight attendant, so I have the house to myself half the month. I spent Saturday playing Xbox, eating pizza (that she ordered for me), and hanging out with my best friend, our dog. A very ruff life indeed!

No children together as we met late in life.

While we pseodo-fight like most married couples ( eg do it this way not that), we make each other laugh every day.

My friend circle is just my SIL and BIL, they are good people.

I have made many posts on this site for those who might want a similar life - pretty much everything you need to know to acquire and keep a good woman.

I will say there is an elephant in the room - attachment styles.

Avoidant attachment style means it is almost impossible for that person to have a successful long term relationship. A high percentage of those in a dating pool are avoidants because they can’t keep a mate.

The anxious attachment ladies seem to get pulled into long term relationships early in life compared to men the same age.

Likely, a high percentage of people on this site have Avoidant attachment style. Nothing wrong with that - just means marriage is not in the cards for you and you will likely date other avoidants your whole life.

Sosuave, eg Pook and others teach men to mimic a combo of Secure and Avoidant Attachment styles in order to attract and retain quality woman. That is why every thing you read here works - the advice is mimicking attachment styles.

Marriage can only be successful in a few combinations 1) Secure with an Anxious OR 2) Secure with secure. I suspect the 2nd option is a bit boring though. My preference is option 1. The man must always be Secure attachment for the marriage to work.

There is alot too this. My wife is an avoidant attachment and i liked the freedom and relatively drama free nature of it until 2020 when it went bad

 

[Pandora]

I truly do not understand why men keep doing this.

Because men want kids. A marriage is the best way to raise them unfortunately ( in the modern world atleast).

 

[Pandora]

I have been married and been in multiple LTRs as an adult. I find that when I am single I generally feel more isolated but am much more at peace and overall "happier." Spinning plates gets exhausting after awhile, but the actual freedom to always do what I want to do without having to ever explain it to anyone is priceless in and of itself.

To those men who are really "happily married," good for them. I will never get married again. I value my own personal time and personal goals too much to bring someone else into the equation who is going to muck it all up. I am good with occasional LTRs where the woman will acknowledge my desire for freedom, but as soon as she begins to lose that understanding, she will be shown the door.

I will also add, almost every couple I know who has been married for over 10 years is usually in some state of unhappiness and/or pure apathy about the relationship/the other person and usually close to or at a dead bedroom. I can think of maybe 1 or 2 exceptions. To me, what is the point? My own parents have been married for close to 50 years now and can barely be in the room with each other for more than 2 minutes before a snide remark is made and bickering begins. If I die married with a wife who can barely stand me, is that supposed to be better than just dying by myself (outside of my kids who I hope are around)?

I am good with the single life of plates with the occasional LTR here or there.

Dang bro this is scary. Very interesting though.

 

[remarkable]

Average young women pair up quickly and with intention.. or date around and get no one. If one was a father, what would one like for his daughter to do? Aim for the stars like most young women are told to do today.... and like most older women today, get no one? These are the odds.. This is the reality...

Every father thinks their young daughter is special... Is a princess. But, on average, she is AVERAGE. His young daughter maybe pretty, but most young daughters are..

I actually wouldn't want my daughter to "aim for the stars", I would just want her to marry a good man who will love and protect her, so he works hard to make sure my daughter and their children are safe. It's not about status or money at all, in fact, I'd rather her be with someone who earns less but makes her the happiest, than be with a wealthy man that verbally abuses her.

 

[plumber]

I actually wouldn't want my daughter to "aim for the stars", I would just want her to marry a good man who will love and protect her, so he works hard to make sure my daughter and their children are safe. It's not about status or money at all, in fact, I'd rather her be with someone who earns less but makes her the happiest, than be with a wealthy man that verbally abuses her.

that's an interesting thing. how to pick or approve a man for daughter.

would i want her to pick a man like myself... every dad could ask that about themself.

when and how should i interfere if she is making mistake...

she is my responsibility until I am no more. same as a son is.

 

[jhonny9546]

The foundations of a bad marriage are set early on (often even before the marriage itself). Any man who allows his wife to be his boss by delegating control over family finances and other important decisions to her is doomed to be miserable. If you act as a subordinate, you will be treated as one.

Yes we are on the right track.

But you talk about "delegating control over family finances and other important decisions to her".
While in my opinion, giving her room to talk bad about you, even worse in front of others, it's the worse thin you could do.

When women are in a social circle where other women are doing it, they feel freer to do so and will be supported by other women.
This means that as a man, you also need to understand who you're friends with (your friends, and whether their wives respect them).

 

[jhonny9546]

@plumber @remarkable If you have a daughter, you can hope well for her that she gets a man like you described, the problem though, is that in reality she will choose either a man who behaves like you, her father, and how your wife interacted with you, or she will end up with a criminal who will capture her emotions. No other ways

 

[Divorced w 3]

It’s remarkable to me that people are surprised that two consenting adults have become absolutely sick of each other after a substantial period of time isolated in living situations with one person. That’s where the work starts. You learn how to deal with it.

 

[Pumax]

1) Secure with an Anxious

I'm pretty sure I'm avoidant, but maybe we can work to make it to secure someday?

Given this, how did you distinguish between avoidant and anxious woman?

Also, that secure attachment, is something a nice guy without backbone have?

What will happen with a avoidant (man) and anxious (woman) ltr?

Because, mature man or a sosuaver, feels like they're more into the Avoidant thing.. isnt' it?

That’s where the work starts. You learn how to deal with it.

How did you?

 

[Sega Genesis]

My wife is an avoidant attachment and i liked the freedom and relatively drama free nature of it until 2020 when it went bad.

^^I don't think it requires one (or both) to be avoidant necessarily however maintaining separate interests, friends and a certain level of independence from each other helps!

Problem is traditional advice is typically to spend more time together which imo and experience is the absolute worst advice!

I have posted this before but a balance of togetherness and distance works best. It allows you BOTH to wonder about and miss each other which creates longing from time to time and keeps your desire for each other alive.

Even when living together or married.

Check this out. Watch the first two minutes, it'll grab you and make you want to watch the entire video.