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Escalation

AttackFormation

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This will be a rant....

Escalation has been my biggest problem with women all my life. Even if I suspect a woman is interested, I'm thinking that she might regard escalation as an unwelcome bother or harassment.

Just now this thought pattern cost me another opportunity, the first girl I've interacted with in the university town I'll be staying in for 3 months until I go back to study in my home city. I arrived today, and she had a room in my student corridor (which is in a detached residential dwelling, so there isn't a large complex of other student corridors with more girls nearby either). At first when she walked into the student kitchen and gave me an enthusiastic greeting I thought "this is it, it doesn't get easier than this, a friendly girl glad to have found someone she can have sex with in the evenings here". My immediate plan was to just roll with the flow of the interaction and eventually we would have sex, whether today or tomorrow, as I felt her out.

But then, she said she was just stopping by to get a few of her things before moving to another town. This is where I fvcked up. I could've done something to at least try to escalate for some making out, groping, and that leading to some dry sex or even full on sex, but I didn't. Why didn't I do it? because even though she seemed enthusiastic, and stuck around with me in the kitchen saying she "didn't want to drive in rush time", I didn't want to make her feel uncomfortable or harassed. I hate this mindset. I don't want to have it. Being considerate and thoughtful does NOT get you laid, ESCALATION does. Any man who has ever looked back at how he actually had sex will confirm this. Is it just in my fvcking DNA to be this way? I didn't grow up with my mother telling me to do or not do this or that, or anything like that, it just seems wired into me... FVCK. I HATE this shyt. I can't convey through the screen how sick I am of being this way.. What angers me even more, what really fills me with rage, is knowing that she might have actually counted on me escalating thus why she stuck around, but then packed her stuff and bounced saying "well, take care" after I hadn't sexualized the interaction. She might have just been wanting some entertainment before she went, and not have wanted to make out or anything... but I didn't find out whether that was the case. I only seem able to escalate when I feel the girl has made it clear she wants me to. If she does, my barrier completely goes away.. I am not this way with girls who I've actually been sexual with. But if not...

This night I am making a commitment to be deliberately sexually provocative if I encounter another girl who seems enthusiastic (although with the university campus on lockdown for the coronavirus, I'm not sure when that will start). The first thing I'll do after saying hi or hi back, will be to look at her body and say "how sexy you are... I like your body" (the first part sounds more sensible in my language) in a calm voice. I am SICK of being thoughtful, SICK of being considerate. Those things only prevent you from having sex.
 
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AttackFormation

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Now I'm going to the gym......... FVCK. I'm SICK of being this fvcking way. This must be made my wake up call... if this happens again, I'm gonna fvkcing smash something apart and go into a frenzied rage.. I won't because I have too much impulse control, but that's what I WANT to do. Smash apart this BS.

I shouldve said "youre going? But how will i have time to make out with you then? I want you"

I hate that stupid fvcking BS dating "advice" that tells men to be like this. I know that stuff is BS, but I seem wired to be that way anyway, and now I'm at a tipping point of anger. I can't take this anymore.
 
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AttackFormation

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Theres still a pair of heels and what looks like it could be other girl shoes in the shoe stand.. i wont fck up with those
 

Ohso-Phresh

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This will be a rant....

Escalation has been my biggest problem with women all my life. Even if I suspect a woman is interested, I'm thinking that she might regard escalation as an unwelcome bother or harassment.

Just now this thought pattern cost me another opportunity, the first girl I've interacted with in the university town I'll be staying in for 3 months until I go back to study in my home city. I arrived today, and she had a room in my student corridor (which is in a detached residential dwelling, so there isn't a large complex of other student corridors with more girls nearby either). At first when she walked into the student kitchen and gave me an enthusiastic greeting I thought "this is it, it doesn't get easier than this, a friendly girl glad to have found someone she can have sex with in the evenings here". My immediate plan was to just roll with the flow of the interaction and eventually we would have sex, whether today or tomorrow, as I felt her out.

But then, she said she was just stopping by to get a few of her things before moving to another town. This is where I fvcked up. I could've done something to at least try to escalate for some making out, groping, and that leading to some dry sex or even full on sex, but I didn't. Why didn't I do it? because even though she seemed enthusiastic, and stuck around with me in the kitchen saying she "didn't want to drive in rush time", I didn't want to make her feel uncomfortable or harassed. I hate this mindset. I don't want to have it. Being considerate and thoughtful does NOT get you laid, ESCALATION does. Any man who has ever looked back at how he actually had sex will confirm this. Is it just in my fvcking DNA to be this way? I didn't grow up with my mother telling me to do or not do this or that, or anything like that, it just seems wired into me... FVCK. I HATE this shyt. I can't convey through the screen how sick I am of being this way.. What angers me even more, what really fills me with rage, is knowing that she might have actually counted on me escalating thus why she stuck around, but then packed her stuff and bounced saying "well, take care" after I hadn't sexualized the interaction. She might have just been wanting some entertainment before she went, and not have wanted to make out or anything... but I didn't find out whether that was the case. I only seem able to escalate when I feel the girl has made it clear she wants me to. If she does, my barrier completely goes away.. I am not this way with girls who I've actually been sexual with. But if not...

This night I am making a commitment to be deliberately sexually provocative if I encounter another girl who seems enthusiastic (although with the university campus on lockdown for the coronavirus, I'm not sure when that will start). The first thing I'll do after saying hi or hi back, will be to look at her body and say "how sexy you are... I like your body" (the first part sounds more sensible in my language) in a calm voice. I am SICK of being thoughtful, SICK of being considerate. Those things only prevent you from having sex.
Ok, there hot stuff. When you’re emotionally less reactive dissect the interaction through the eyes of a detached anthropologist viewing everything through a one-way mirror.

Verbal stuff is ok,... and focus on body language, positioning and physical contact present or not.

It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it and the micro-calibration on the fly.



ie. She comes in says Hi, you motion to her to come closer, (like you’ve been homies forever) reach out your non-dom hand for her to take, lead her closer, keep holding her hand into a caress, lead her slowly even closer, strong eye contact, speak softly for her to come even closer, take your other hand and begin massaging the hand you have,... small talk takes on a completely different atmosphere.

Playfully push her away before she pulls away. Game on from here.

It all starts with your mental point-of-origin which begets your frame.

Accept who you are, from here anything is possible by thinking better feeling thoughts.

When you don’t, that just creates more of the same.
 

Ohso-Phresh

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You fear the thought of women not wanting to be dominated and maybe because of metoo i don't know.
Do this next time your getting a *******b dont ask her but grab her hair and gag her with your dik until she gasps for air. And feel how wet her puzzy gets.
Tgis in turn will help you break ice in the future like amd ice cutting ship.
^^^ Living a large, rich fantasy life.
 

AttackFormation

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Liberal politics, I counsel a few guys with this issue and I flat out told them they're going to have to change their politics to succeed because they are immersed in an environment where women are the victim 24/7. It's a world where women are damsels in distress like the old age of chivalry rather than starving sexual beasts.
I must have internalized this just from growing up in that environment then. Sweden is extremely "liberal", right across the political spectrum. I've read posts from women saying how men simply don't approach in Scandinavia, so the women who traveled here had to do it. I've never identified as a feminist and the only time I consciously viewed women as victims was a brief stint in 7th grade (which the girls themselves made me snap out of when I thought of how ridiculous they must think my idea was).

But I'm willing to do whatever it takes to kill this internalized helplessness of thinking women will be offended, bothered or harassed by sexual escalation, or that even if they are that that means I shouldn't escalate with women and just be sexless. I've been aware of this internalization since 7th grade but today in particular really filled me with rage. I thought today was going to be one of the most cheerful days of my life, but instead the wasted opportunity with an enthusiastic and available girl made me feel a seething hatred for both myself and what caused me to be this way. If I don't get rid of this internalization now, my whole fvcking university years could be fvcked up. It's bad enough now that they canceled the campus attendance because of the coronavirus so I won't even be seeing any new girls as far as I can tell in the foreseeable future.
 
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AttackFormation

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Hope ill be able to sleep... Im so ****ing angry, and anguished.. I hate this internalization...
 

samspade

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Don't be angry. About a year ago I pu$$ed out on an escalation and was really hard on myself. Posted here about what a pu$$Y I was. That line of thought gets you nowhere though. The fact is, all men on this board have failed to escalate at some point or another.

I'm guessing the reason you are mad is you know that women don't place themselves alone with you unless they know they want to be fukked by you. And they send signals. So yeah, you failed to escalate. But keep in mind you only get that window to do it, and you're human. And you still might get another chance. She's not just going to flip the switch off like that. I recommend trying to make plans with her.

As for not wanting to make her feel "uncomfortable," this is not some DNA flaw. This is wired in everyone, believe it or not. You're worried about some kind of caveman ostracism from the tribe. Totally normal, even if it's illogical on its face. What you have to keep in mind is that if you went in for a kiss and she turned you down, well then what? Nothing bad will happen. You just say, "guess I read you wrong" and laugh it off.

With the same girl I mentioned earlier, I got her isolated a second time and tried to make a move. She rejected very kindly. I tried again a bit later, and she was cool about it and so was I. I had a c0cky shyt eating grin on my face and just gave her some friendly grief over it. Total 180 because I adjusted my perspective. Then I moved on with my life.

Remember that even the best pro athletes pass up easy shots. They get mad for a few hours, then move on to the next game.
 

Black Widow Void

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I relate quite well to your posting and it's not just a result of the "me too" movement. I'm twice your age and long before this attitude, I have gone through this as well.

Much as I hate to admit this, alcohol has tremendously helped.
And before anyone here starts with this "that's a crutch" BS... I'll further explain.

In a previous posting, I mentioned that I think you're one of the most intelligent members here. Speaking as someone with a higher IQ, I've revisited this particular subject many times. The desire is there for women, but that instinctual part just doesn't occur as often. I also overlook most of the subtle signs.

Back to the alcohol part: when I drink, I become less analytical. I'm no longer the 'eccentric' guy (which I mask fairly well when necessary) ,Instead, I think that booze actually drops my IQ (dulls the senses) a bit and suddenly, I'm more 'primitive (less dimensional) '

No matter the country, I think one thing is universal. If a man is halfway good looking and is more thick than intelligent, he's going to score more often.

Although I do have loads of past success stories, I'd not have even half of these 'conquests' if not for "dulling the senses" through alcohol.
I expect responses with the claim that this is a result of lacking confidence etc... but I know otherwise.

This may not be the most healthy advice, but I have no regrets for medicating my intellect when on the prowl.
 

Ohso-Phresh

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All this is regurgitated PUA. It comes down to is your dik in her puzzy or not. What's getting the deal done.
You can step by step this until time immemorial but OP has to figure out what works for him. Every interaction is different.
Lol, so say the cavemen who grabs a girl by the hair and shoves her face into his crotch. Tell us more simple caveman tactics enlighten one.

You do make a valid point, it is an individual thing to work out.

What works is frame and pulling a women into one’s reality with no attachment to outcome.

Trial and error, experience is the only true teacher.
 

Ohso-Phresh

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You don't walk up to a girl an assault her. Im talking about a girl who willingly submits to you.
Again....when your getting a blow j_b ie...one that she already got down to give you.
Lets not make this a metoo issue. Its not.
Good to know you still have some social calibration. How about make an appropriate suggestion for his situation then, champ.

Hi to blow jb has a couple of more steps in there unless, of course, you are a stringpuller.
 

lamath

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This will be a rant....

Escalation has been my biggest problem with women all my life. Even if I suspect a woman is interested, I'm thinking that she might regard escalation as an unwelcome bother or harassment.

Just now this thought pattern cost me another opportunity, the first girl I've interacted with in the university town I'll be staying in for 3 months until I go back to study in my home city. I arrived today, and she had a room in my student corridor (which is in a detached residential dwelling, so there isn't a large complex of other student corridors with more girls nearby either). At first when she walked into the student kitchen and gave me an enthusiastic greeting I thought "this is it, it doesn't get easier than this, a friendly girl glad to have found someone she can have sex with in the evenings here". My immediate plan was to just roll with the flow of the interaction and eventually we would have sex, whether today or tomorrow, as I felt her out.

But then, she said she was just stopping by to get a few of her things before moving to another town. This is where I fvcked up. I could've done something to at least try to escalate for some making out, groping, and that leading to some dry sex or even full on sex, but I didn't. Why didn't I do it? because even though she seemed enthusiastic, and stuck around with me in the kitchen saying she "didn't want to drive in rush time", I didn't want to make her feel uncomfortable or harassed. I hate this mindset. I don't want to have it. Being considerate and thoughtful does NOT get you laid, ESCALATION does. Any man who has ever looked back at how he actually had sex will confirm this. Is it just in my fvcking DNA to be this way? I didn't grow up with my mother telling me to do or not do this or that, or anything like that, it just seems wired into me... FVCK. I HATE this shyt. I can't convey through the screen how sick I am of being this way.. What angers me even more, what really fills me with rage, is knowing that she might have actually counted on me escalating thus why she stuck around, but then packed her stuff and bounced saying "well, take care" after I hadn't sexualized the interaction. She might have just been wanting some entertainment before she went, and not have wanted to make out or anything... but I didn't find out whether that was the case. I only seem able to escalate when I feel the girl has made it clear she wants me to. If she does, my barrier completely goes away.. I am not this way with girls who I've actually been sexual with. But if not...

This night I am making a commitment to be deliberately sexually provocative if I encounter another girl who seems enthusiastic (although with the university campus on lockdown for the coronavirus, I'm not sure when that will start). The first thing I'll do after saying hi or hi back, will be to look at her body and say "how sexy you are... I like your body" (the first part sounds more sensible in my language) in a calm voice. I am SICK of being thoughtful, SICK of being considerate. Those things only prevent you from having sex.
Most of us have been conditioned to think like that.

I used to work in a lab that was mostly women and i remember them complaining bout guys being too foward with them.

Insunuating in a way that those guy just wanted to bang them.
What i did not realise is rhat it was not complaining it was bragging.
Things like that did have an effect on me too, making ne think that being foward is not a thing they want.

Changed that mind set but not 100% there yet.
 

AttackFormation

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Liberal politics, I counsel a few guys with this issue and I flat out told them they're going to have to change their politics to succeed because they are immersed in an environment where women are the victim 24/7. It's a world where women are damsels in distress like the old age of chivalry rather than starving sexual beasts.
"Just thought I’d share my thoughts on dating apps ... Initially I didn’t like the idea at all & wanted to meet someone “naturally”, IRL. 6 months later I’d had interest 1 or 2 guys who pursued me but what transpired was totally inappropriate. Many decent men do not approach women; it’s more the confident player types who do."
 
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AttackFormation

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I relate quite well to your posting and it's not just a result of the "me too" movement. I'm twice your age and long before this attitude, I have gone through this as well.

Much as I hate to admit this, alcohol has tremendously helped.
And before anyone here starts with this "that's a crutch" BS... I'll further explain.

In a previous posting, I mentioned that I think you're one of the most intelligent members here. Speaking as someone with a higher IQ, I've revisited this particular subject many times. The desire is there for women, but that instinctual part just doesn't occur as often. I also overlook most of the subtle signs.

Back to the alcohol part: when I drink, I become less analytical. I'm no longer the 'eccentric' guy (which I mask fairly well when necessary) ,Instead, I think that booze actually drops my IQ (dulls the senses) a bit and suddenly, I'm more 'primitive (less dimensional) '

No matter the country, I think one thing is universal. If a man is halfway good looking and is more thick than intelligent, he's going to score more often.

Although I do have loads of past success stories, I'd not have even half of these 'conquests' if not for "dulling the senses" through alcohol.
I expect responses with the claim that this is a result of lacking confidence etc... but I know otherwise.

This may not be the most healthy advice, but I have no regrets for medicating my intellect when on the prowl.
Funnily enough, she actually showed me the big bottle of 15% booze she had in the fridge. I didn't push to start drinking with her mostly because I don't want to drink alcohol anymore and decided to stop many years ago, but also she'd said she was driving to another town.. though I guess that plan could've been "postponed". If I hadn't stopped drinking, I would've agreed with you that alcohol would've made it easier to escalate. But even then, what about in situations you can't drink? lol, you can't walk around drunk all day right. I used to bring a bottle of vodka to high school sometimes.. for this exact reason you talk about.

Indeed, no woman has ever had sex with me because of my "intelligence" or because of how considerate she thought I was. What I have heard though is that I "wasn't as c0cky as I seemed" and "she slapped me on the arm because she was trying to wake me up", both said in the negative sense, and in both cases I did rescue the situation point by escalating (after she said that in the first case, before she said it in the second case). But I would specify it more than "intelligence", it's the combination of empathetic sympathy and inhibition control in the executive brain which is behind the failure to escalate. With alcohol you still feel the empathetic sympathy... but it dampens the inhibition control. Every time I have managed to have sex in my life, it has been because I managed to act more like an ape than my baseline of executive function.

I don't knock alcohol if you want to drink it, but I want to switch this inhibition control off without it.. I know I would be able to do it, I must do it. I swear the next time I encounter a girl like this, I will be provocative on purpose. I will think of something sexual that will be "inappropriate" to say or do sober, or to do so quickly, and do just that. I will provoke her and myself on purpose.
 
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AttackFormation

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And you guys wanna know a funny thing? On the train here, I actually overheard a couple of women older than me talking about men once I moved behind them. One of them, who had glanced at me with what looked like a little smile as I first sat down diagonally across from her, said to her friend about some man that "well... he's good at sex" and they both chuckled at that being her reason to keep him around.

My problem isn't that I don't know women want to have sex, or that I have some complex that sex is dirty or that women who have sex are dirty or trashy, or whatever... I'm really easygoing without hangups about women. The problem is the fvcking inhibition control that stops me from escalating like I know I both want and need to do, and like I know they want you to. But you guys are reminding me that this is something we all deal with.... so thanks for that. I swear I will kill it...
 

Bokanovsky

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You'd be surprised how many men have the same problem, especially in the West, due to the sexual harassment hysteria. On the one hand, men are expected to escalate. On the other hand, if you misread her mind, and your advances are unwelcome, you've committed sexual harassment or even sexual assault, a very serious offence with a vague definition (any unwelcome touching can be considered sexual assault). The fact that women often send mixed messages, and act in an ambiguous and attention-seeking manner, does not help things.
 

AttackFormation

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You'd be surprised how many men have the same problem, especially in the West, due to the sexual harassment hysteria. On the one hand, men are expected to escalate. On the other hand, if you misread her mind, and your advances are unwelcome, you've committed sexual harassment or even sexual assault, a very serious offence with a vague definition (any unwelcome touching can be considered sexual assault). The fact that women often send mixed messages, and act in an ambiguous and attention-seeking manner, does not help things.
I must say that although this sentimental internalization is the root issue, the added fear of a formal harassment/rape charge does make it even worse. If I get a sexual assault charge on me now, my life will genuinely be fvcked just as I was taking it a big step forward, and you can't confirm that it won't happen. I have overheard three women gloating about how they got guys put in jail over fake charges back in high school.

It's a very confused time. I bet many women notice it too, but they wouldn't understand why it's going on.
 

Bokanovsky

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I must say that although this sentimental internalization is the root issue, the added fear of a formal harassment/rape charge does make it even worse. If I get a sexual assault charge on me now, my life will genuinely be fvcked just as I was taking it a big step forward, and you can't confirm that it won't happen. I have overheard three women gloating about how they got guys put in jail over fake charges back in high school.
Considering you live in Sweden, I'm not surprised by any of that. Things aren't much better here in Canada. If you're not sure, don't take the risk. No pvssy is worth going to jail for, even if it's a luxury Swedish jail that looks like an Ikea-furnished condo...lol.
 

sosumba

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She comes in says Hi, you motion to her to come closer, (like you’ve been homies forever) reach out your non-dom hand for her to take, lead her closer, keep holding her hand into a caress, lead her slowly even closer, strong eye contact, speak softly for her to come even closer, take your other hand and begin massaging the hand you have,... small talk takes on a completely different atmosphere.

Playfully push her away before she pulls away. Game on from here.
Can you guys give more examples of possible escalations?
 

AttackFormation

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I've now escalated with this girl since I made the thread, so this specific scenario is solved now and it was another step toward solving the greater trouble. It was just making out, no sex, but the issue was psychological so I was very happy with this.
 
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