Electric Cars

Billtx49

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One negative I heard is that if it's too cold out the battery drains faster than a charger can charge it, is that true?
An EV can lose 12% of its range in cold weather, but if the heater has to be on full to keep warm, that loss can jump to 41%.
A low drag electric heater is essential in an EV, and one manufacturer suggests you use the seat warmer to supplement the main heater and cut down battery loss.

Full charge times increase significantly in cold weather with an outside lower battery temperature also.
 

EyeBRollin

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Great responses on this...

So public charging stations cost money?? I thought they were free :(
Lol. Why would you think that?

Are there travel chargers you can bring in the car itself?
Every electric car comes with a portable Level 1 charger. Won’t help you during a road trip. It only charges 3-4 miles per charging hour.

One negative I heard is that if it's too cold out the battery drains faster than a charger can charge it, is that true?
No. EVs charge slightly faster in cold weather. However, you lose 20-30% driving range in cold temperatures due to denser air and excess power going towards running the cabin heat. What this means is an EV rated for 200 miles is actually more like 150 in winter driving.
 

lost_blackbird

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So public charging stations cost money?? I thought they were free :(
Are there travel chargers you can bring in the car itself?
In the UK some are (for now...), they are usually located at supermarkets, a little carrot for the shoppers.
But they are slow chargers, so they aren't giving much away really. I believe you can carry a charge cable
around so you can plug into the mains when (not if) you get caught short. I look forward to the day a stranded
EV user taps on my door asking to plug in. Short shrift is the term that best describes my intended response
to such a request should it happen.
 

EyeBRollin

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Air conditioning must be a range killer too.

There is no idling engine to spin the compressor, so it must be a significant electrical power draw to run the A/C.
No. Actually air conditioning is more efficient in EVs than ICE. It’s not much range difference. Cabin heat is different. An ICE naturally creates more heat.
 

Reyaj

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An EV can lose 12% of its range in cold weather, but if the heater has to be on full to keep warm, that loss can jump to 41%.
A low drag electric heater is essential in an EV, and one manufacturer suggests you use the seat warmer to supplement the main heater and cut down battery loss.

Full charge times increase significantly in cold weather with an outside lower battery temperature also.
Wow... so EV are hardly ideal for long trips when its cold....

Lol. Why would you think that?
I thought that's one of the big selling points... you no longer have a gas expense and chargers are put around the country to help promote the switch over.... How much do charging stations charge? If you have Tesla do you get to use there's for free if you also have a Tesla but have to pay if you have a different brand? Does it take like a half hour to re-charge the vehicle?

Oh and the travel chargers can only take you 3 miles... I guess you are shvit of luck if you run out of power outside that range...
 

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Wow... so EV are hardly ideal for long trips when its cold....



I thought that's one of the big selling points... you no longer have a gas expense and chargers are put around the country to help promote the switch over.... How much do charging stations charge? If you have Tesla do you get to use there's for free if you also have a Tesla but have to pay if you have a different brand? Does it take like a half hour to re-charge the vehicle?

Oh and the travel chargers can only take you 3 miles... I guess you are shvit of luck if you run out of power outside that range...
Tesla superchargers used to be free for tesla owners, but there is a cutoff date that has already passed and you now have to pay. Usually it takes about 20 minutes to get a charge big enough to get you to the next charging station. But this is if you get lucky and the charger isn't already full of cars, there are starting to be so many teslas that you might run into a long line at the charger.

Electric cars make great second cars, but a gas car is kinda required if you do any kind of roadtripping.
 

EyeBRollin

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Wow... so EV are hardly ideal for long trips when its cold....



I thought that's one of the big selling points... you no longer have a gas expense and chargers are put around the country to help promote the switch over.... How much do charging stations charge? If you have Tesla do you get to use there's for free if you also have a Tesla but have to pay if you have a different brand? Does it take like a half hour to re-charge the vehicle?

Oh and the travel chargers can only take you 3 miles... I guess you are shvit of luck if you run out of power outside that range...
Correct, EVs are not well positioned for road trips. It is possible yet suboptimal to perfectly plan an EV road trip.

One important thing to keep in mind though is how little road trip driving most people do. EVs are rechargeable each and every night just like your cell phone. How often do you drive 300 miles or more in a day?

The battery technology is actually outstanding; Tesla and GM EV batteries are proven retain >90% of their capacity for 500,000 miles. Most people will not see more than a 5-10% reduction in battery range over the life of their EV. GM stated that the Volt Gen2 battery can withstand 6,000 charging cycles with no range loss.

Electric cars make great second cars, but a gas car is kinda required if you do any kind of roadtripping.
Disagree. That’s backwards. Do you spend most of your time on road trips or daily driving?
 

EyeBRollin

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Full charge times increase significantly in cold weather with an outside lower battery temperature also.
Actually this part is not true. They charge slightly faster in cold weather. EV charging creates some heat in the battery, which quickly pushes outside of optimal temperatures. Charging is longer in warm and hot ambient temperatures. When charging in summer, the battery fan actually will run to cool it down before charging. On a hot day if you are near a Tesla you can hear they actually automatically run the battery cooling system even when the car is off and not plugged in.
 

Billtx49

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EV’s are cheaper on their fuel source, initially cost more, require more owner sometimes daily hands on plugin time, more preplanning before distance travel, and cannot yet match their rivals gasoline powered vehicles owner convenience factor, plus we need a larger electricity manufacturing grid to handle the increased demand.…
That is why any eventual driving changeover will take decades to accomplish.
 

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Disagree. That’s backwards. Do you spend most of your time on road trips or daily driving?
I do a lot of driving out to remote areas to access recreation, and I also do some light towing. Owning an electric car as an only car is out of the question for me.

I also think it's ridiculous to pay 45k for a car that is the same size and range as a gas car that costs half as much.
 

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Correct, EVs are not well positioned for road trips. It is possible yet suboptimal to perfectly plan an EV road trip.

One important thing to keep in mind though is how little road trip driving most people do. EVs are rechargeable each and every night just like your cell phone. How often do you drive 300 miles or more in a day?

The battery technology is actually outstanding; Tesla and GM EV batteries are proven retain >90% of their capacity for 500,000 miles. Most people will not see more than a 5-10% reduction in battery range over the life of their EV. GM stated that the Volt Gen2 battery can withstand 6,000 charging cycles with no range loss.



Disagree. That’s backwards. Do you spend most of your time on road trips or daily driving?
Thanks for the info! So are there 2 main types of batteries.. Tesla and GM? I'm guessing you would need specific public and home chargers depending on which you had?
 

EyeBRollin

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EV’s are cheaper on their fuel source, initially cost more, require more owner sometimes daily hands on plugin time, more preplanning before distance travel, and cannot yet match their rivals gasoline powered vehicles owner convenience factor, plus we need a larger electricity manufacturing grid.
That is why any eventual driving changeover will take decades to accomplish.
It takes 5 seconds to plug the car in. An EV is like plugging in a phone. Almost all EV owners charge daily at home. They require far less maintenance and “hands on” time than a gas car. The only time gas is more convenient is on a road trip.

I also think it's ridiculous to pay 45k for a car that is the same size and range as a gas car that costs half as much.
The cost is only $10K more than gasoline powered equivalent, most of that difference is currently subsidized by the government. The $80K EVs are competing with $70K gas cars, not $40K gas cars.


Thanks for the info! So are there 2 main types of batteries.. Tesla and GM? I'm guessing you would need specific public and home chargers depending on which you had?
Each automaker has its own battery. We just have long term battery data from GM and Tesla because they’ve had functional EVs for 10 years already.

No, all EVs use a universal standard charging port. The home charger you buy for an EV will work on all makes and models, as well as non-Tesla public charging stations. Tesla supercharging stations however are encrypted for Tesla only, though any EV can physically connect to them (and not draw any power).
 

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It takes 5 seconds to plug the car in. An EV is like plugging in a phone. Almost all EV owners charge daily at home. They require far less maintenance and “hands on” time than a gas car. The only time gas is more convenient is on a road trip.



The cost is only $10K more than gasoline powered equivalent, most of that difference is currently subsidized by the government. The $80K EVs are competing with $70K gas cars, not $40K gas cars.




Each automaker has its own battery. We just have long term battery data from GM and Tesla because they’ve had functional EVs for 10 years already.

No, all EVs use a universal standard charging port. The home charger you buy for an EV will work on all makes and models, as well as non-Tesla public charging stations. Tesla supercharging stations however are encrypted for Tesla only, though any EV can physically connect to them (and not draw any power).
Got it... What's the difference in charging time on the Tesla Super Charger versus a normal charger? Do they make a Supercharge for both home and public and is there a difference in charging time between them?

Do you think other car companies will eventually make their own super charger?

What are your thoughts on this beast?

 
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Got it... What's the difference in charging time on the Tesla Super Charger versus a normal charger? Do they make a Supercharge for both home and public and is there a difference in charging time between them?

Do you think other car companies will eventually make their own super charger?

What are your thoughts on this beast?

That’s what I’m looking at, sucks that it’s not available in a 2-door config
 

MatureDJ

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The only things holding back electric cars from really taking over is the cost/size of the battery as a function of range and the ease/ubiquity of charging it. Because an ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) is so much less carbon-efficient than a natural-gas power plant (which is already twice as carbon efficient because it's natural gas, and there is the optimization that can be done for a large, landed plant), electric cars are far better, batteries aside, even without renewables/nuclear supplying the energy.

I think the electric-car paradigm will be a perfect fit for driverless cars as the driverless taxis that will inevitably follow will be able to handle getting charged on their own (i.e., or at least drive itself to a powering station where a tech can hook it up to charge).
 

MatureDJ

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If I want to take a long range road trip and need to drive an 8 hour day, that’s at least 480 miles, possibly more depending on how fast I want to get there. That’s well beyond the current EV range.
I’ll make a 15 minute stop for gas, not a who knows how long mid-trip recharge if I can even find a charging station …
Edit -
I just read an article about a guy in Wyoming that took 15 hours to drive 178 miles. Apparently he had to deal with three charger types and finding the right one. It seems they have different charge speeds and vary on the mileage / charge time ratios…

I think there could be a solution to this problem: an ICE generator trailer. The idea would be that folks would only need to use the generator when going on a long trip, and thus most of the time the trailer could be detached. The ICE would be diesel to maximize efficiency, as the power-curve weakness of the diesel would not be an issue.
 

EyeBRollin

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Got it... What's the difference in charging time on the Tesla Super Charger versus a normal charger? Do they make a Supercharge for both home and public and is there a difference in charging time between them?

Do you think other car companies will eventually make their own super charger?
I already broke this down. Home charging with a garage mounted charger is level 2. Supercharging is level 3. No other car company will make super chargers because they already exist!

Now to your question - There are 3 ways to charge an electric vehicle:

Level 1: This is with a standard kitchen duplex outlet. All electric vehicles come with an adapter that will plug into any 110V outlet. Recharge rate is about 4 miles per charging hour. It takes 3-4 days to charge a fully electric car, and about 12 hours to charge a Plug-In Hybrid

Level 2: This is with a 240 Volt Charging Station. Most EV owners purchase this for their home. These are also found in shopping malls, parking garages, and airports. Recharge rate is about 20 miles per charging hour. It takes 8-10 hours to fully charge an electric car, and just 2 hours to charge a Plug-in Hybrid

Level 3: This is called "fast charging." These are usually found at rest areas. Tesla Superchargers are at this level, but are encrypted so that only Teslas can use them. Recharge rate is about 300 miles per hour. They can fully charge most electric vehicles in 45 minutes. Plug-in Hybrids cannot use these.
 

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California can get their electric cars and test them out for me. Work out all the bugs. Get that firmware to a stable version. I’ll wait till the last geek snorts before I get one, just like I did with the smartphone. Didn’t get my first smartphone till 2016, after watching people go thru he!! with them in 2011-13. One of the first androids crashed on someone I know right as they were calling 911 about an emergency with their kid.. Bleeding edge technology meant for serious use is a dangerous combo. No thanks!!
 
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