Electric Cars

Reyaj

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What are your thoughts? I want to hear the pros and cons...

They seem faster than gas cars and obviously you save on not having to pay for expensive gas all the time...
 

zekko

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I'm not sold on EVs as a solution to get off of gas powered vehicles. I used to be fond of hydrogen powered cars, but I suppose the technology isn't there yet?

Our electrical grid is not ready to support all of these electric cars, California wants to go to them exclusively, but their grid can't support their power needs now, they have to import electricity in from other states. Most electricity is also produced by fossil fuels, so that doesn't accomplish what they're wanting either. I also understand there are environmental issues with disposing of the batteries. Also, where I live we have almost no charging stations, so the infrastructure isn't there yet. The cars are expensive, although the federal government will help you buy one. But they charge you more for plates to make up for the loss of gas taxes.

Also, follow the money. Who benefits the most if we switch to EVs? China.
 

Bokanovsky

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Pros: faster, better handling (due to lower centre of gravity), cheaper to run (provided you charge at home), require less maintenance and repairs (at least in theory).

Cons: signifcantly more expensive than comparable gas powered cars, charging infrastructure is a work in progress (especially for anything other than a Tesla), chargers are frequently out of order, long trips can be a challenge, range drops dramatically in cold weather, batteries eventually degrade and are very expensive to replace, it's not clear if building enough electric cars to replace ICE cars is even possible (i.e. rare earth minerals needed for battery production are in limited supply and very expensive).
 

Kotaix

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My gf has a nissan leaf with the long range package (230 miles) and I really like driving it. It's fast and fun in it's own way.

The cons
-Everything @Bokanovsky mentioned.
-It takes a LONG time (multiple days) to charge from empty if you're using a regular 110v outlet. But it's very rare that it gets down that far, so far there hasn't been a need to get a 220 charger. ($600)
-No user serviceable parts. If anything fails, there is almost nothing your average joe can do to get it running again, it becomes a brick. And with the voltages involved, it's pretty dangerous to mess with it.
-Way too expensive for what they are (new), compounded by steep depreciation.

Pros:
-They're REALLY nice for city driving and short trips that wreck gas mileage and engine life on ICE cars. The more start-stop you get, the better the range.
-Great performance that you can't match with ICE cars without compromising engine life.
-More efficient than ICE cars.
-No maintenance whatsoever
-Quiet

If it's my money, there's no way I'd buy anything other than a Tesla. The other car makers are too traditionally minded, and electric drive makes the traditional car design obsolete. But I don't see myself going electric until they come up with the next revolutionary battery chemistry that replaces Li-ion.
 

Bokanovsky

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If it's my money, there's no way I'd buy anything other than a Tesla. The other car makers are too traditionally minded, and electric drive makes the traditional car design obsolete. But I don't see myself going electric until they come up with the next revolutionary battery chemistry that replaces Li-ion.
The main problem with Teslas is the sh!t build quality. They make the 1980's Yugo feel like a solidly built car in comparison.
 

Kotaix

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The main problem with Teslas is the sh!t build quality. They make the 1980's Yugo feel like a solidly built car in comparison.
I won't argue that tesla has a build quality problem, but this is a ridiculous comparison. Yugos were hot garbage in every possible metric.
 

EyeBRollin

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Electric Cars are 100% superior to gas cars in literally every way.

I am a 5 year owner of a Gen 2 Chevy Volt. For those unfamiliar, it is “both” in one vehicle.
 

Bokanovsky

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I won't argue that tesla has a build quality problem, but this is a ridiculous comparison. Yugos were hot garbage in every possible metric.
I'm being somewhat sarcastic but I've never seen any modern car with such sh!tty paint quality a Tesla. Or body panels that are not properly aligned. Or interior trim pieces that are falling off on a brand new car. If they can't even get the basic things right, it makes you wonder how the rest of the car is going to hold up.
 

EyeBRollin

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The main problem with Teslas is the sh!t build quality.
I agree with this. Tesla is a tech company not a car company. When I bought my Volt I was actively shopping the Model 3. Between the two the Tesla was a bit faster but the interior is garbage and it had some troubling road noise on the highway. Chevrolet at least has been in market of building cars for decades. Also, fully optioned out the 3 came to $55K, a full $20K more than what was marketed and $20K more than what I ended up paying.

After government incentives, I ended up paying only $25K for a fully loaded brand new electric car. This was in 2017 though.

Also something to keep in mind- If your state follows California’s emission standards legislation (most of the NE States), electric vehicle components related to the zero emission propulsion (anything relating to the battery, electric drive unit and their computers) are warrantied for 150,000 miles or 15 years, regardless of the manufacturer warranty.
 
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Bible_Belt

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Electric motorcycles look fun. Harley Davidson has gone all in on electric. The loud, slow v twin will be a relic of the past.
 

behimo

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Pros: you have an EV
Cons: Parts will cost you arm and a leg to service after warranty. EVs are heavier, more tire wear, more pollution made by spent rubber from those tires, especially since ppl get EVs for that G force thrill/acceleration. As mentioned above, as more ppl adopt price of electricity will also rise.

Summary: get what you like, don't do too much mental gymnastics. get what works for you.
 

EyeBRollin

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Cons: Parts will cost you arm and a leg to service after warranty. EVs are heavier, more tire wear, more pollution made by spent rubber from those tires, especially since ppl get EVs for that G force thrill/acceleration.
This is all straight up false. It’s fine if EVs aren’t your preference. No need to spread misinformation.
 

Bokanovsky

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The big question is whether cars powered by electric batteries are sustainable in the long run and on a global scale. Currently, there are about 1.5 billion motor vehicles (including buses and trucks) in the world. Of those, about 6 million are electric. This means that less than half of 1% of all cars currently on the road are electric. To put in another way, for every electric car already on the road, you would have to build another 249 to replace every ICE car in the world. I just don't see how that would be possible given that the raw materials necessary for battery production are already in short supply.
 

behimo

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This is all straight up false. It’s fine if EVs aren’t your preference. No need to spread misinformation.
then provide the facts with your claims, otherwise it's all hearsay anyway. i'd provide the sources but too lazy to have a discourse with you on the matter.
 

lost_blackbird

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Electric motorcycles look fun. Harley Davidson has gone all in on electric. The loud, slow v twin will be a relic of the past.
I'd rather be on something you can hear thanks. It's bad enough that drivers miss you frequently because they're
faffing about with their phones instead of being aware of their surroundings. Additionally electric motorcycles don't
have much range as they are physically limited by their battery size. Meaning more charge stops. I've ridden a few
petrol powered Harleys in my 42 years of motorcycling (started riding geared bikes aged 7) and frankly, they are slow,
heavy and boring. However cool some may think they look, they simply don't handle and are only relevant as straight
line bikes. We don't have miles of straight roads here in the UK, I need something that can hustle round a bend with
tons of midrange grunt to accelerate out of the bend. Electric doesn't do anything to stir the lifelong biker in me.
My crossplane 1000cc Yamaha MT10 delivery is due in about 2 weeks, specced with a titanium Akrapovic silencer
for extra rumble, it's replacing the MT09 850 triple I've had for the last 6 years. I also enjoy shifting gears, which is not
really an option with electric vehicles, takes more skill and planning to ride a powerful 6 speed bike than a clutchless
twist and go glorified scooter which is how I see electric bikes.
 

zekko

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Suggesting EVs have higher operational costs and more pollution than ICEs is asinine.
Since you have an electrical vehicle, maybe you can answer something I've been curious about. If you stop at a charging station, how much does it cost? I've heard you should recharge about once an hour, so how much is an hour's worth of electricity at a charging station?
 

Billtx49

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If I want to take a long range road trip and need to drive an 8 hour day, that’s at least 480 miles, possibly more depending on how fast I want to get there. That’s well beyond the current EV range.
I’ll make a 15 minute stop for gas, not a who knows how long mid-trip recharge if I can even find a charging station …
Edit -
I just read an article about a guy in Wyoming that took 15 hours to drive 178 miles. Apparently he had to deal with three charger types and finding the right one. It seems they have different charge speeds and vary on the mileage / charge time ratios…

 

EyeBRollin

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If I want to take a long range road trip and need to drive an 8 hour day, that’s at least 480 miles, possibly more. That’s well beyond the current electric range.
I’ll make a 15 minute stop for gas, not a who knows how long mid-trip recharge if I can even find a charging station …
Since you have an electrical vehicle, maybe you can answer something I've been curious about. If you stop at a charging station, how much does it cost? I've heard you should recharge about once an hour, so how much is an hour's worth of electricity at a charging station?
Thanks for the question. I'll shed some light. There are two kinds of electric vehicles:

Full Electric - (i.e. Tesla Models, Chevrolet Bolt, Nissan Leaf) These have huge batteries lasting 150+ miles, with the largest batteries over 300 miles of total range.

Plug-In Hybrid (i.e. Chevrolet Volt, Toyota Prius Prime, BMW i8) These are "transitional electric vehicles" that were designed to bridge the gap between gas and electric. All automakers have these options available but they won't market them because it is difficult to explain to customers. These have small batteries (10-50 miles range) but a fully operational gas engine once the battery is depleted. In short, they are a Tesla on electric mode, but a conventional hybrid (i.e Toyota Prius) under gas mode. They can run on gas indefinitely, and take road trips just like a regular car. You never have to charge these if you are unable to find charging.

Now to your question - There are 3 ways to charge an electric vehicle:

Level 1: This is with a standard kitchen duplex outlet. All electric vehicles come with an adapter that will plug into any 110V outlet. Recharge rate is about 4 miles per charging hour. It takes 3-4 days to charge a fully electric car, and about 12 hours to charge a Plug-In Hybrid

Level 2: This is with a 240 Volt Charging Station. Most EV owners purchase this for their home. These are also found in shopping malls, parking garages, and airports. Recharge rate is about 20 miles per charging hour. It takes 8-10 hours to fully charge an electric car, and just 2 hours to charge a Plug-in Hybrid

Level 3: This is called "fast charging." These are usually found at rest areas. Tesla Superchargers are at this level, but are encrypted so that only Teslas can use them. Recharge rate is about 300 miles per hour. They can fully charge most electric vehicles in 45 minutes. Plug-in Hybrids cannot use these.

Most EV drivers do not charge publicly, with the exceptions being parking garages and road trips. Parking garage charging is usually "free" because it is included in the cost of parking. Outside of garages, the cost of public chargers is usually at least 5X more expensive than charging at home. They are owned and serviced by private companies, so they aren't well regulated. Also, it's common to go to a charging station and it is either broken, taken, or the spot is just blocked by a non-EV because someone is being a scrub.

Also, utility companies don't advertise this- but they have time of use power plans. This is useful for anyone without solar panels on their home. I have a time of use plan. Standard electricity for me was $.13 / KwH, but now I pay $.17 / kwH during the day and just $.06 overnight. My car has a 15 kW battery, so each charge costs about $1 and I get 53 miles of juice. A 100kWh Tesla would cost me about $7 to fully charge at home for 300 miles of juice. If you convert that it in $ it is roughly 150 MPG.
 
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