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Burningblue

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At the expense of my own ego I would like to share a story to hammer home the point of always being a challenge. This has all been heard before but maybe it will help someone new.
My most recent GF, who dumped me last month, was my first attempt at being a DJ. In the beginning, I played the game to the hilt. I was a challenge through and through. At the end of a date I would never suggest another date. I would let her wonder for days on end if she was ever going to see me again. On the dates, I was confident, funny, always had a fun plan, threw in some neg hits, let her do the majority of the talking, and never, EVER let her know that I was into her.
One month into the relationship, she began crying while we were kissing. She ran to the bathroom sobbing. When I asked her what was wrong she said that she was sure that I was going to leave her and she didn’t want me to go. This girl wanted me bad! I reassured her for about 20 minutes and she seemed to love me even more for it. Despite, this high interest level, I continue the game and the challenge.
Two months into the relationship we were sitting on her couch after a great day together. She starts to call me out on being such a challenge all the time. She tells me that she doesn’t hear from me very much and that it concerns her. She worries about me being late for dates. She wonders why I don’t say much about my feelings. She says “this is just kind of scary for me. It’s been a long time since I’ve liked someone this much. Actually, I think it’s more than that….but I’m holding back”. It sounded like an “I love you” to me. I let my guard down and told her how much I cared and that I wanted a serious relationship. I started giving compliments, etc.
The very next week she was distant. She said that she was nervous about being in a relationship. She says that dating is more serious these days because she is “looking for someone”. She said that she didn’t know if it was right. The next week she seemed happy again but then the following week she, once again, says that she doesn’t want to jump in with both feet. I AFC and become visibly upset. She knows that she has the control now. I stop believing in the DJ version of manhood. I think that I have to supplicate to get back into her heart. I throw away everything I’ve learned. I just keep giving the compliments, telling her that I care, even wrote her a guitar song. Her interest seems to go up and down for a few weeks. One week she is unsure. The next week she invites me to meet her parents. The next week I give her a compliment and she says she “doesn’t deserve that”. I avoid talking about it and don’t even ask her what she means by that. Actually, I’m still kind of wondering if she was cheating. Her interest level seems to be going up and down for weeks. Finally, she dumps me. “I care about you but it’s not forever” she says.
So, in the space of a couple weeks I went from her sobbing and begging to be with me to her having zero interest in me. Do NOT stop being a challenge…..even when you are winning.
 

mountain

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a TRUER statement was never spoken. i posted a thread about this a couple weeks back because i did the exact same sh1t. I had a girl wanting sex with me at every moment of the day, telling me how great i was, etc. Then i made some painful to remember afc moves. I allowed her to stand me up for a date among other things. all down hill from there, told her i liked her. burningblue is right, when you are comfortable you have your game together, pay extra careful attention to not revert to afc mode. and its probably wise to "spin more plates" so it naturally doesnt happen, but im not at that level as of yet. girls are really good at making you feel comfortable with their sweetness only to pull the rug from under you. it's really quite an ingeneous evolutionary weed out method.
 

xmlenigma

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I'd say there is no need to play extreme ends of the spectrum.

Always being a challenge makes it tough for you to really connect.

Being an AFC makes it boring and ..basically lose respect for you.

Be Dr. TOUGH LOVE. Love her but lead and make sure she understands the respect factors. Dont have to be a prick & challenge all the time.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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I always tell rAFCs to analyze and learn from their mistakes, but question their successes even more so. It's far to easy to achieve an accomplishment and think, "hey, I did it right" and fall back on old behaviors than to put the circumstances for that success under a microscope. We need to learn from what we did wrong as well as what we did right. This leads to sustainability.
 

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WestCoaster

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The female psyche is bizarre. This one gal and I had been hanging out, dating now and then, e-mailing (too much) ... we had a little blow-up, but got over it. But then I decided to distance myself a bit from the whole thing, step back, re-assess, look at dating others. I don't e-mail or contact for over a week ... get an e-mail: Where are you? Are you mad at me?

Crazy stuff ... it never changes. The only consistent thing about women is that they don't like AFC and if you're a challenge, they pursue you. You can etch those things in stone.
 

resilient

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challenge factor in LTR

So by being a challenge does that mean I must be aloof or subliminaly suggest that I'm dating others constantly? I think it's crummy to constantly use c+f and/or negs to batter their self-esteem and keep leading them on. I rather enjoy a sincere connection and be able to compliment them time to time, but then disqualify myself. It's almost like I have to be mildly disinterested in relationship just to keep her persuing me. I do however understand the importance of staying busy, so the relationship doesn't slip into the comfort zone.

I'm trying to use the Juggler Method right now in pick-up, but am worried it's supplicating too much power to HB on dates/future LTR. I do know that once HB knows the mate is conquered in the romanticism fantasy, she quickly finds another AFC to victimize. This thread really irks my curiousity because I know in the DJ bible it entails to say "I love you" very rarely in order to keep her hooked.
 

Latinoman

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I once said that approaching dating and life in general is a "game". And to succeed...we must be "players" in that game.

That means in the job...that means when you meet a woman and date her. And that means, even after you marry her and she has your children.

But we must apply some level of balance too. Or we can risk becoming "too detach" and next time we see...she might fall for some "overly romantic" geek.

This is ART and not science.
 

WestCoaster

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Sadly resilient, you do have to be a bit of challenge ... at least in the good ol' U.S. of A. Our strange, powerful, and corrupt pop culture has women being bombarded with romance stuff from novels to TV to billboards and advertising and them saying they want flowers, candy, "I love yours" etc., but in reality they flat-out crave a guy who is distant and tough to catch. It's psychotic thinking at its worst.

Think of most guys you know: They think somewhat logically, see a problem, try to fix the problem and move on after it's fixed. If a guy sees a gal with another guy, they immediately turn elsewhere (if they're not AFC). With women it's the opposite.

When I was in grad school, I'd meet this gal after class (she was about a 9) at Starbucks. I'd get there early to read the sports page, and all these hotties there wouldn't give me the time of day. Ms. Nine walks in, sits down next to me and all eyes from the women previously ignorning me suddenly bolt up and eyeball me ... happened every f--king week like clockwork.

So yeah, you gotta be distant, be seen or heard with other women, talk about other women, and so forth. It's a sick game, but it has to be played.

The only thing consistent are women's strange behaviors.
 

driver55

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Veritas

Great thread....so true! Thank you to the original poster...never stop playing the game!
 

legolas

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It's tough to have game on 24/7 but if you somehow make the game a part of life and blend it with the lifestyle then it gets easier. It is tough to be a challenge all the time since the girl has to feel a little secure in the relationship sometimes for her to let go and experience extreme pleasure...don't you think?
 

Maverick001

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Being a challenge shouldn't be a contrived or rehearsed mannerism. You should genuinely be busy with your own life and pursuits.

If you have to act to be a challenge then it's time to fill those missing areas in your life:

a) Professionally

b) Academically

c) Socially

d) Spiritually

e) Financially


When you're so damn busy pursuing your own goals in life, women become secondary or even tertiary and they know it. They know that the sun that shines, rises and sets in your life isn't them and they can't stand it. They want all of your attention and when they don't get it, it drives them crazy.

Women should never be a central focus of a man's life. They can be an important part, if they've demonstrated that they're worthy of that status. Otherwise, they have to compete with all of the other things that you've got going on in your life.

Remember, a woman would rather have part of a winner than a loser all to herself.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
Mav
 

So Many Ways

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Maverick001 said:
Being a challenge shouldn't be a contrived or rehearsed mannerism. You should genuinely be busy with your own life and pursuits.

If you have to act to be a challenge then it's time to fill those missing areas in your life:

a) Professionally

b) Academically

c) Socially

d) Spiritually

e) Financially


When you're so damn busy pursuing your own goals in life, women become secondary or even tertiary and they know it. They know that the sun that shines, rises and sets in your life isn't them and they can't stand it. They want all of your attention and when they don't get it, it drives them crazy.

Women should never be a central focus of a man's life. They can be an important part, if they've demonstrated that they're worthy of that status. Otherwise, they have to compete with all of the other things that you've got going on in your life.

Remember, a woman would rather have part of a winner than a loser all to herself.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
Mav
You got it. It's one thing to act like a challenge as a technique and to sincerely have something else going on in your life that prevents you from giving your life over to a female you've only known for a short time. Completely different.
 

thesynergist

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YYYYYep. Had a similiar experience. I refused to be pinned down for the longest time. Once I let her catch me, her IL started dropping. Then it dissapeared. Then she was toast. Short-term I can apply the seduction principles I've learned. And I continuosly take the steps I need to to improve myself, my life, my universe.

But when it goes into overtime it's just so damn easy to slip back into AFC mode.

As has been said before, that's a sure sign you haven't truly internalized the correct, strong, seductive dj mindset. I know I got work to do.

Also, good point from Rollo about analyzing SUCCESSES. It's so typical to analyze the hell out of failures with HB's, but analyzing the times you succeed, digging deep and figuring out WHY...that's vital. Another area I need to work on. Good post.
 

Victory Unlimited

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Yo Troops!


So what are we suggesting here? Is this war between the sexes truly a neverending battle? Can we never declare absolute victory? Is a temporary cease fire the most we can ever hope for?

Can we only allow ourselves to "care" about women only "so" much? Do we discipline ourselves only to like women, but NEVER love them?


So many questions.

But I fear I may already know what the answer is...
 

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Macgyver

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You kinda have to have a balanced relationship constantly never allowing her to win all the time as well as you occasionally letting down your guard but always remaining stern on primary objectives : to be the man.

You choose when you want to open up, If she asks what made you this and that, vagueness always works. Going into details only tells the girl that you got big ass probs.
 

Foxman

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Just found and joined this site/board today, and man I really need it!!
This here is one tremendous thread to say the least.
Being new I have to ask: What do "AFC" and "HB" stand for?

I will be posting more and anticipate all the responses from you fellow DJ's.
Much Respect,
Foxman
 

Slickster

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BurningBlue

Its a fine line.

If you went on forever being a supreme challenge and never ever opening up then there is a good chance she'll leave you too. Most chicks will respond favorably to the challenge game for awhile but then actually get sick of it. Next thing you know she's found some chump who feeds her desire for attention and she'll lose interest in you. His supplicating actions won't win her over for long but once she grows tired of your ultra-challenge behaviour she'll welcome his chumplike suck-up routine.

The trick is to sparingly give out subtle little hints here and there that you do actually care and want her around. But at the same time give her a sense that it could all end in a flash.

It becomes a game of sorts and it is very much like the "push/pull" tactics used early on in a seduction. You send her on an emotional rollercoaster where she is never really sure where she stands. Who knows why, but women thrive on this sort of drama.

You've written a good post and I hope you've learned alot. If you ever find yourself in this situation again (hopefully not :) ) just remember that even if you make a mistake like dumping your guts you can always get the "power" back.

You could have simply arranged a date with another chick and had her find out about it. Presto you are back to being a challenge. ;)

Better yet, when the two of you had your very first discussion about the fact that you were being too much of a challenge you play it like this....

Two months into the relationship we were sitting on her couch after a great day together. She starts to call me out on being such a challenge all the time. She tells me that she doesn’t hear from me very much and that it concerns her. She worries about me being late for dates. She wonders why I don’t say much about my feelings. She says “this is just kind of scary for me. It’s been a long time since I’ve liked someone this much. Actually, I think it’s more than that….but I’m holding back”.
Act all dissappointed and everything and then say, "Yeah..I understand....if you want to call it quits thats cool...."

She'll freak thinking you want to break up and then you give her a "little" bit of reassurance that you really want to be together with her.

This way you give her a little of what she needs and also a sense of impending doom.

Get it? :up:
 

Latinoman

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Victory Unlimited said:
Yo Troops!


So what are we suggesting here? Is this war between the sexes truly a neverending battle? Can we never declare absolute victory? Is a temporary cease fire the most we can ever hope for?

Can we only allow ourselves to "care" about women only "so" much? Do we discipline ourselves only to like women, but NEVER love them?


So many questions.

But I fear I may already know what the answer is...
From MY perspective...it is not a war. And it should not be a war. Furthermore, I am capable of loving a woman (and I love women).

However, I'm also aware of what's best for ME. And I can control what's best for me. Many men give that control to others (kids, wife, girlfriend, friend, etc.). I don't.
 

Charm

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Like others said, it is an Art, not a Science. That means that sometimes the formula that worked perfect for one guy won't work for you. Every situation has countless variables (some we have no idea fully about) that play into the grandoise Game we play.

One of the biggest things worth emphasizing over and over again however is to sarge regularly and date several women. This will help you avoid the oneitus that is all too common.

One of the major hurdles when "getting back into" the game, is getting it through the skull the importance of seeing more than one woman. Just because you get the number-close and a date with one girl doesn't mean you should stop sarging and pursuing others.

The art of it is that every situation is unique and we are constantly learning. Mastery of any art is a lifelong practice and one that the artist pursues with passion and enjoyment, regardless of the outcome of individual creations. They realize that excellence in the art itself can only be achieved through trial, error and constant practice. Only then will they Master art and themselves in the process.

Don't be afraid to make mistakes. Don't be afraid to act. At least you're doing something and learning from it. Keep it up.
 
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