Does income determine value of the man

Pandora

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#1
So I come from an immigrant background that highly values status and income. They gravitate towards high income high status careers. The argument they make is that money runs the world. They basically worship doctors, high power lawyers and engineers. My observation is that people many of these people are intelligent and talented at one thing. But when you talk to them they don't necessarily have any profound thoughts. They don't have a deep wisdom. The wisdom I get from members on this forum is lacking in some people that have high status jobs.

Their counter argument is that income is a measure of your value to society. The more money you make the more valuable you are. Something in my gut tells me that this type of thinking is off. I went to school with these people and some of them are wonderful, but others are just vapid.

For most of human history we have lived in tribal societies. In tribal societies they took a more holistic approach to a persons value. They didn't have paper money per se. They all depended on each other. A persons loyalty, wisdom and character where all taken into account. I think modern society especially American society places too much emphasis on money. I understand why though. Our system is set up so you can't really survive unless you are a high income earner. It was designed this way on purpose. Am I just painting the target around the arrow? Is my thinking sours grapes? Maybe....what do you guys think.
 

backseatjuan

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#3
Sphere of influence has a lot more effect than your income. For example, you could be a programmer at a desk job, making 100k a month, who cares. On the other hand you could have your own business and make 10k a month. Your sphere of influence will be a lot bigger than that of a rich nerd at a desk job who has no sphere of influence whatsoever. Sphere of influence comes from people you meet, if you own a business, people will be sticking to you like flies to sh1t.
 

Danger

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#4
Value is determined by the buyer and what they are trying to buy.

Some cultures and women place a higher value on income than others.

Men place less value on the income of other men because they are looking for wingmen, not a source of money.

Kids often place less value on money than they do on having a father figure to mentor them, etc,....

It really all depends on context.
 
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R

Ranger

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#5
I can see where it is a practice measure of status. True there are other things as stated above.
If we look at it from the survival potential aspect it makes sense in the long run.

What I am about to say is an opinion. The reason that spheres of influence works, let’s say, this allows her to make contacts and influence so that she can branch away from you to that same status or above if you pan out to be a little bytch.

It’s about survival potential. A woman has these skills for the purpose of dumping you and moving up if the situation dictates it. She doesn’t want to loose status, thus her most optimized survival.

If you are a mechanic and the relationship falls to $hit, what’s she going to branch to? Another mechanic or a beer and pizza guy? Now if you own the mechanic business and it’s successful, you are in a better position.

I know this sounds kinda fukked up but it’s better to face reality than to be wrecked by it. There are plenty of status attractors.

If you are looking for mariage or an LTR then the above applies most definitely. If you are just out enjoying women then it won’t. Rich women on vacations suck and fuk pool boys for fun. Etc.
 

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Mike32ct

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#6
It’s all well and good if you have the talent and drive for that doctor/lawyer/engineer career, and it’s something that you are genuinely passionate about.

In my opinion, you should never force yourself into some “high status” career or start a business just to impress others and/or attract women.

Back to the mechanic example noted above...

Maybe you love working on cars but have no interest in running a business. I wouldn’t fault such a guy working as a mechanic in that case. He’s following his passion.

TDLR: I feel like a lot of society and red pill programming subtly suggests “Force yourself to move up in income/prestige even if you hate it.”
 

Danger

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#7
It’s all well and good if you have the talent and drive for that doctor/lawyer/engineer career, and it’s something that you are genuinely passionate about.

In my opinion, you should never force yourself into some “high status” career or start a business just to impress others and/or attract women.

Back to the mechanic example noted above...

Maybe you love working on cars but have no interest in running a business. I wouldn’t fault such a guy working as a mechanic. He’s following his passion.

TDLR: I feel like a lot of society and red pill programming subtly suggests “Force yourself to move UP, even if you hate it.”

This is a great point. I was happiest when I was worker level as opposed to where I am today. The higher in rank you go, the more ridiculous $hit you have to deal with.
 
R

Ranger

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#8
It’s all well and good if you have the talent and drive for that doctor/lawyer/engineer career, and it’s something that you are genuinely passionate about.

In my opinion, you should never force yourself into some “high status” career or start a business just to impress others and/or attract women.

Back to the mechanic example noted above...

Maybe you love working on cars but have no interest in running a business. I wouldn’t fault such a guy working as a mechanic in that case. He’s following his passion.

TDLR: I feel like a lot of society and red pill programming subtly suggests “Force yourself to move up in income/prestige even if you hate it.”
Agreed. A great mechanic is invaluable. Any craftsman is valuable beyond measure. In the present world we lack such things. This is a mistake. Supposed high end people just think craftsmen are just dumb. This is a lie.
Craftsmen have more common sense and valuable wisdom. The banker is useless with out a bank. He can’t even fix a sink.
 
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#10
With expanded income comes increased opportunities. Social, personal, business, leisure, etc.
What or if a man does anything with those personal opportunities is up to him.
 
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zekko

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#12
I was thinking about this earlier today. About how I had achieved certain financial goals I had set for myself. I realized that we each choose our own goals and what is important to us. When I was a young man starting out, I struggled financially. All my friends made more money than I did. This affected my confidence, because as a man how you support yourself is important, and I wasn't reaching my potential. So I focused on trying to fix that, and even though I had some failures and some stops and starts I got it straightened out. If I hadn't, I don't think I could have the confidence I do now.

But that's for me, someone else may base their confidence on something else. I also had to work to overcome shyness that plagued me from a young age, and I've also pursued creative and spiritual concerns. We all decide what's important to us and work toward those ends.

Money's tricky though, because you have to be able to support yourself at least. Like @billtx49 said, the more money you have the more opportunities and options you have.
 

Pandora

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#13
I was thinking about this earlier today. About how I had achieved certain financial goals I had set for myself. I realized that we each choose our own goals and what is important to us. When I was a young man starting out, I struggled financially. All my friends made more money than I did. This affected my confidence, because as a man how you support yourself is important, and I wasn't reaching my potential. So I focused on trying to fix that, and even though I had some failures and some stops and starts I got it straightened out. If I hadn't, I don't think I could have the confidence I do now.

But that's for me, someone else may base their confidence on something else. I also had to work to overcome shyness that plagued me from a young age, and I've also pursued creative and spiritual concerns. We all decide what's important to us and work toward those ends.

Money's tricky though, because you have to be able to support yourself at least. Like @billtx49 said, the more money you have the more opportunities and options you have.
This is solid. Thanks
 

zekko

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#14
Since it's Christmas, there's a quote from the movie It's a Wonderful Life: "No man is a failure who has friends". I think that would apply well to a guy who draws his confidence from his social life instead of money. Maybe he is leader of his group, has a large social group, or is a gregarious type who makes friends easily. People draw their value from different things.
 
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#17
The harsh reality: yes, it does.

No disrespect intended towards anybody if my words sound harsh, not trying to offend, I'm just trying to dispel these fairy tales we've been told growing up -- this whole "money doesn't make the man" narrative is one of my pet peeves because it's predicated on a defeatist mentality. Only guys that don't have a drive to succeed say things like this to rationalize their own laziness.

Gentlemen, we're MEN. One of the main aspects of being a man is having financial stability. If you don't have financial stability you're not a man, you're an overgrown boy.

I grew up poor. My school years svcked because I was poorer than the other kids and they talked mad sh1t about me. My college years were worse because I was taking classes at community college and working in the stockroom at COSTCO part time just to pay for tuition and books. When I transferred to University it got even worse. Then after I graduated and found an entry level job in corporate America it got even WORSE. I was paid a low salary and worked like a slave. But I persevered all those years, moved up the ranks, and now I'm financially secure and live comfortably.

Aside from the philosophical debate about social status and perceived value, having money just makes it easier to have fun. I'm actually about to head out with some buddies to hit up the strip club. No better way to spend a saturday night than to make it rain in the club and take a hottie stripper to the VIP.

All those years I suffered and struggled definitely paid off and I don't have any regrets about toiling d@mn near 30 years just to get to the level that I'm at now.
 
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FairShake

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#18
If you can't take care of yourself financially, I don't value you as a man.

But when judging someone I tend to look at how they treat the people they care about more than their income.
 

TyTe`EyEz

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#20
Your level of income has no bearing on your value as a man.

My uncle raised five very successful children and he never had a full-time job. He sold inventions at craft shows for a living. They were never rich, but they were well fed, had full social lives and were good at sports (he put up a basketball goal in the dirt back yard). This sort of thing used to be normal in America.

These days we have vapid consumerism, households where both parents have to work, kids that would rather spend time on social media than outside, adults that spend the majority of their time on social media, outrageous drug and alcohol death rates, mass shootings, race riots, higher divorce rates, more violent crime, etc....

Something went wrong somewhere.
 
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