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Do you think the London Bridge terrorist qualifies as an ethniccel?

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What a loaded question. That would be like asking what laws are in the US. I know Saudi Arabia helped demolish the Caliphate so I don’t see them as a prime example of a nation upholding the sharia. Plus, Wahhabism has part of its roots tied into the Dönmeh, which makes it all the more sketchy. I’m not sure about the others tbh. I know that there were people who did completely denounce Islam during the time of Prophet Muhammad (albeit rare, but it did happen), so it doesn't make sense to me that there would be punishments for apostasy if Muhammad himself didn’t kill apostates.
Hadith of Prophet Mohammed "Whoever changes his religion kill him".

Perhaps you should check with ur local Iman's 1st, on whether what I wrote is true or false.

But I don't blame you, the Quran itself is a contradiction.
 

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Hadith of Prophet Mohammed "Whoever changes his religion kill him".

Perhaps you should check with ur local Iman's 1st, on whether what I wrote is true or false.

But I don't blame you, the Quran itself is a contradiction.
Oh please, you’re still stuck on that?

That was during war when those who were fighting against them would ‘convert’ just to take their resources. As in, they’re in war and they say the shahada, then they’re treated like brothers by the Muslims. They eat a lot of their food, drink a lot of their milk and water, take their horses/camels, etc., and say they want to leave Islam, and then they go back to try killing the Muslims again the next day.

The thing is, there’s loads of hadiths that are incomplete. I don’t think you understand just how far I’ve taken this, Spaz...
 

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Oh please, you’re still stuck on that?

That was during war when those who were fighting against them would ‘convert’ just to take their resources. As in, they’re in war and they say the shahada, then they’re treated like brothers by the Muslims. They eat a lot of their food, drink a lot of their milk and water, take their horses/camels, etc., and say they want to leave Islam, and then they go back to try killing the Muslims again the next day.

The thing is, there’s loads of hadiths that are incomplete. I don’t think you understand just how far I’ve taken this, Spaz...
Well, why don't we take it further then...

Mohammed was invading lands...

Killing both men and boys as young as 12 or upon reaching puberty.

The rest he took as slaves and sold them...

But of course he and his army rapes them 1st.

Of course he gives them a chance to convert 1st before beheading.

It's after all in the Quran.

Don't tell me the Quran is lying too?
 

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Oh now we’re getting into some of the juicy stuff
Mohammed was invading lands...
Who are we talking about here exactly? There’s tons of lands that were invaded, but not without provocation first. It’s important to preface first that the murder of a messenger, especially back then, was an act of war. Even today, it still is too. With that being said, we know that Muhammad sent emmissaries/missionaries/ambassadors all over the place, telling the surrounding areas about Islam. These were the results:

- Heraclius initially had declined to accept Islam, and had given some gifts to the emissary/emissaries and sent him/them on their way.

- Ghassanids, who were Christian, executed one of the emissaries. This, as previously mentioned, was an act of war. Because of that, the Muslims rallied against them. However, because the Ghassanids were Christian, the Byzantines had decided to help support the Ghassanids against the Muslims (and also because of disingenuous political/religious reasons too). This is also how the fighting between the Byzantines and Muslims began.

- Persia/Sassanids were sent I believe 7 emissaries (maybe it was 10 though, I could be wrong) with a letter inviting them to Islam. The emperor ripped up the letter, and behead all of the emissaries, except for one. {Just as a side note: when Muhammad learned of this, he said, “May God rip his empire like he ripped that letter”. Coincidentally, the Sassanids started to face economic issues, political unrest and corruption, a massive plague that took out a huge percentage of their population, civil sedition/uprising, and declining military prowess due to wars with the Byzantines).

The initial raids against the caravans of Quraysh after Hijra were because the Muslims had been persecuted out of Mecca and as such had left most of their belongings there. Because of this, the Quraysh sought to sell the Muslims’ belongings for a profit in Syria. They had essentially raided the caravan and taken back what was already theirs. This was despite initial hesitance by Muhammad to do so (until that one verse came about anyway).
Killing both men and boys as young as 12 or upon reaching puberty.
Children were always spared. That’s a rule. Only men who fought against them were killed and that was during battle. The few times some were killed after surrendering were due to either breaking of treaties or because they were criminally-minded and were just ****ty people by standard human metrics of ethics.
The rest he took as slaves and sold them...
Only of those who fought against them and had surrendered. Plus, slavery in Islam is nowhere near Christian/European slavery. It’s a mixture of being a butler/nanny, indentured servant, and adopted child. You can’t beat the slave, or else you must free them, and then you’ll be punished in the same way you hurt your slave. You have to feed them with the same quality food you eat and clothed them with the same quality clothing you wear. They can still have autonomy outside of you, and get their own freedom if they really desired. That’s why there were entire armies who were ‘slaves’ with generals/emirs who were ‘slaves’ too, and even generations of kings who were technically ‘slaves’; it’s not even remotely the same. Not to mention, they can still buy their freedom if they wanted to.

With the system that ‘slavery’ was set up in Islam, slavery would have naturally have disappeared ~100 years after Muhammad’s death. It’s just that the rules pertaining to it weren’t followed.
But of course he and his army rapes them 1st.
It’s not like the rest of the world is much better lol. They’re still doing that today, pretty sure Epic Days might’ve raped a couple people himself when he was in the military overseas.

I currently have a book called Slavery & Islam by Jonathon A.C. Brown. I haven’t finished reading it, but it goes over everything you’re talking about in regards to these sorts of things. Check it out.
Of course he gives them a chance to convert 1st before beheading.
Answered in previous response.
It's after all in the Quran.

Don't tell me the Quran is lying too?
Don’t mock me. Firstly, you and I both know that pretty much all of the stuff you’re talking about is solely in the ahadith, not the Qur’an. And secondly, u should know by now that I’m too smart and too much of an ******* to just accept something for no reason. How else do you think I was driven to come to this website at a younger age than everyone else?
 

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Not seen anything here about the biggest conservative victory in well over my lifetime.

lol

It's been glorious thus far. And it's only just started.

(and that despite it being a conservative government for a decade!)

Proper funny times brothers. I love it.
 
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Guys, and I'm not joking, you need to actually make an effort to make this place fvcking relevant for goodness sakes.
 

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Oh now we’re getting into some of the juicy stuff

Who are we talking about here exactly? There’s tons of lands that were invaded, but not without provocation first. It’s important to preface first that the murder of a messenger, especially back then, was an act of war. Even today, it still is too. With that being said, we know that Muhammad sent emmissaries/missionaries/ambassadors all over the place, telling the surrounding areas about Islam. These were the results:

- Heraclius initially had declined to accept Islam, and had given some gifts to the emissary/emissaries and sent him/them on their way.

- Ghassanids, who were Christian, executed one of the emissaries. This, as previously mentioned, was an act of war. Because of that, the Muslims rallied against them. However, because the Ghassanids were Christian, the Byzantines had decided to help support the Ghassanids against the Muslims (and also because of disingenuous political/religious reasons too). This is also how the fighting between the Byzantines and Muslims began.

- Persia/Sassanids were sent I believe 7 emissaries (maybe it was 10 though, I could be wrong) with a letter inviting them to Islam. The emperor ripped up the letter, and behead all of the emissaries, except for one. {Just as a side note: when Muhammad learned of this, he said, “May God rip his empire like he ripped that letter”. Coincidentally, the Sassanids started to face economic issues, political unrest and corruption, a massive plague that took out a huge percentage of their population, civil sedition/uprising, and declining military prowess due to wars with the Byzantines).

The initial raids against the caravans of Quraysh after Hijra were because the Muslims had been persecuted out of Mecca and as such had left most of their belongings there. Because of this, the Quraysh sought to sell the Muslims’ belongings for a profit in Syria. They had essentially raided the caravan and taken back what was already theirs. This was despite initial hesitance by Muhammad to do so (until that one verse came about anyway).

Children were always spared. That’s a rule. Only men who fought against them were killed and that was during battle. The few times some were killed after surrendering were due to either breaking of treaties or because they were criminally-minded and were just ****ty people by standard human metrics of ethics.

Only of those who fought against them and had surrendered. Plus, slavery in Islam is nowhere near Christian/European slavery. It’s a mixture of being a butler/nanny, indentured servant, and adopted child. You can’t beat the slave, or else you must free them, and then you’ll be punished in the same way you hurt your slave. You have to feed them with the same quality food you eat and clothed them with the same quality clothing you wear. They can still have autonomy outside of you, and get their own freedom if they really desired. That’s why there were entire armies who were ‘slaves’ with generals/emirs who were ‘slaves’ too, and even generations of kings who were technically ‘slaves’; it’s not even remotely the same. Not to mention, they can still buy their freedom if they wanted to.

With the system that ‘slavery’ was set up in Islam, slavery would have naturally have disappeared ~100 years after Muhammad’s death. It’s just that the rules pertaining to it weren’t followed.

It’s not like the rest of the world is much better lol. They’re still doing that today, pretty sure Epic Days might’ve raped a couple people himself when he was in the military overseas.

I currently have a book called Slavery & Islam by Jonathon A.C. Brown. I haven’t finished reading it, but it goes over everything you’re talking about in regards to these sorts of things. Check it out.

Answered in previous response.

Don’t mock me. Firstly, you and I both know that pretty much all of the stuff you’re talking about is solely in the ahadith, not the Qur’an. And secondly, u should know by now that I’m too smart and too much of an ******* to just accept something for no reason. How else do you think I was driven to come to this website at a younger age than everyone else?
Young man, if I were to respond to this which I could and I'll be convincing as hell, it's just gonna be more of the same (response) since ur mind is set in stone already.

Let's make this more interactive, an eye opener for all and sundry.

WE SHALL USE THE QURAN AS REFERENCE.

Since Islam is ur religion, then of course u r an authority when it comes to it, to which I shall defer towards.

Let's get started, we'll use 2 prominent Prophets from the Quran.

Take a piece of paper, draw a line right at the middle.

On the left top conner, Mohammed and on the right top conner Jesus.

Now fill in at each sides, the miracles they performed ACCORDING TO THE QURAN.

From birth till death.

Then we shall compare and discuss it further.
 

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Young man, if I were to respond to this which I could and I'll be convincing as hell, it's just gonna be more of the same (response) since ur mind is set in stone already.
That’s a cop out. I’ve already debated some ex-Muslims before and it went beyond Islam and into science, psychology, and philosophy. Each and every time it happened, one thing that remained consistent was the whole “I just don’t want to believe anymore” mindset.
Since Islam is ur religion, then of course u r an authority when it comes to it, to which I shall defer towards.
I’m not an authority on Islam. I know more than just about anyone on here, but that’s about it.
Now fill in at each sides, the miracles they performed ACCORDING TO THE QURAN.
According to the Qur’an, there weren’t many miracles Muhammad performed. The ones that are tend to be in reference to one’s he did, not a direct telling. The Qur’an is written more so as a handbook that talks to YOU about what YOU need to do to live properly live your life. The stories themselves are mostly in the ahadith. A lot of the same goes for the miracles of Jesus in Christianity—most of them aren’t described in the Bible itself except for the parts that were written by other PEOPLE. I do remember one part where it is stated in the Qur’an about how it was not Muhammad that threw the sand that blinded the entire army, but God/whoever God ordered. But again, it wasn’t even described as a direct event. The Qur’an isn’t a biography of Muhammad lol.

But anyway, what do you want me to do next?
 

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That’s a cop out. I’ve already debated some ex-Muslims before and it went beyond Islam and into science, psychology, and philosophy. Each and every time it happened, one thing that remained consistent was the whole “I just don’t want to believe anymore” mindset.

I’m not an authority on Islam. I know more than just about anyone on here, but that’s about it.

According to the Qur’an, there weren’t many miracles Muhammad performed. The ones that are tend to be in reference to one’s he did, not a direct telling. The Qur’an is written more so as a handbook that talks to YOU about what YOU need to do to live properly live your life. The stories themselves are mostly in the ahadith. A lot of the same goes for the miracles of Jesus in Christianity—most of them aren’t described in the Bible itself except for the parts that were written by other PEOPLE. I do remember one part where it is stated in the Qur’an about how it was not Muhammad that threw the sand that blinded the entire army, but God/whoever God ordered. But again, it wasn’t even described as a direct event. The Qur’an isn’t a biography of Muhammad lol.

But anyway, what do you want me to do next?
Is it really that hard to just name a few miracles performed by 2 of the Quranic Prophets?

Let's see, according to the Quran, Jesus walked on water, raised the dead, rose up from the dead and ascended to heaven, healed the sick, etc etc etc.

I'm sure the more pious Christians here can name many more, I'm hardly pious.

But I'm pretty sure Mohammed never did those I mentioned, however I would like to know at least a few, even if it's just 3 miracles, since he's revered as the greatest Prophet.

And if you can't name 3 miracles, at least name 1.
 

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Is it really that hard to just name a few miracles performed by 2 of the Quranic Prophets?

Let's see, according to the Quran, Jesus walked on water, raised the dead, rose up from the dead and ascended to heaven, healed the sick, etc etc etc.

I'm sure the more pious Christians here can name many more, I'm hardly pious.

But I'm pretty sure Mohammed never did those I mentioned, however I would like to know at least a few, even if it's just 3 miracles, since he's revered as the greatest Prophet.

And if you can't name 3 miracles, at least name 1.
He did ascend to the heavens lol. He tossed a small bit of sand at the Batle of Badr, and it blinded the whole enemy army. And he relayed the Qur’an to humanity.

Also, I’m not sure Jesus actually walked on water in the Qur’an. And I know for a fact that the Qur’an does NOT say that Jesus rose from the dead, that’s Christianity your conflating it with. Now I know for a fact that you don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to Islam. Even more, it doesn’t talk about the miracles of Jesus directly either, it only talks about them in reference to a larger overall message. This is the same thing with all the other prophets.

You see, the problem with your question is that Islam is twofold: the Qur’an AND the sunnah. The sunnah is known via the ahadith. There’s a complicated verification process for the ahadith, so many are rejected, including some that very well may be/are true.

You really thought that you could corner me by asking me about miracles that the Qur’an says Muhammad performed? That’s an insult to human intellect. I already explained to you why that’s a faulty premise to base the veracity of a religion off of. That would be like saying that the best nutrition book has to have the word ‘nutrition’ in it more than any other book in the world. Try again.
 
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He did ascend to the heavens lol. He tossed a small bit of sand at the Batle of Badr, and it blinded the whole enemy army. And he relayed the Qur’an to humanity.

Also, I’m not sure Jesus actually walked on water in the Qur’an. And I know for a fact that the Qur’an does NOT say that Jesus rose from the dead, that’s Christianity your conflating it with. Now I know for a fact that you don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to Islam. Even more, it doesn’t talk about the miracles of Jesus directly either, it only talks about them in reference to a larger overall message. This is the same thing with all the other prophets.

You see, the problem with your question is that Islam is twofold: the Qur’an AND the sunnah. The sunnah is known via the ahadith. There’s a complicated verification process for the ahadith, so many are rejected, including some that very well may be/are true.

You really thought that you could corner me by asking me about miracles that the Qur’an says Muhammad performed? That’s an insult to human intellect. I already explained to you why that’s a faulty premise to base the veracity of a religion off of. That would be like saying that the best nutrition book has to have the word ‘nutrition’ in it more than any other book in the world. Try again.
I just read the 1st paragraph and just stopped.

You don't even know the Quran.

The Quran was written decades after Mohammed's death.

And mohammed didn't rose up from the dead to ascend to the heavens. He's rotting somewhere on earth.

You need to learn more abt ur own religion before debating with me.

I posed those questions in my previous postings to help you to think or rather to help you to at least question.
 

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I just read the 1st paragraph and just stopped.

You don't even know the Quran.

The Quran was written decades after Mohammed's death.

And mohammed didn't rose up from the dead to ascend to the heavens. He's rotting somewhere on earth.

You need to learn more abt ur own religion before debating with me.

I posed those questions in my previous postings to help you to think or rather to help you to at least question.
What are you even talking about? I never said he died, you need reread EVERYTHING. And I also know how Qur’an was written, I never said Muhammad wrote it, wtf

And if you look back to my posting history from over the years, you’ll see that I actually questioned Islam. This past year I especially went hard, how else do you think I know so much? I visited ex-Muslim forums and websites and everything. Don’t you dare tell me I need to think more. I think more than any poster on here. And definitely more than you. Your ego can’t the fact that you could be wrong about this.

Why tf are all old people like this? I swear...
 

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You need to learn more abt ur own religion before debating with me.
Oh yeah, and educate yourself first before you ever try posing any arguments to me. Spaz, this isn’t a fight that you’ll win. And it’s very clear from your own posts that you don’t Islam nearly as well as you think you do. You couldn’t even respond to my other post even though you said that you could be “convincing as hell”

What a lie hahaha
 

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What are you even talking about? I never said he died, you need reread EVERYTHING. And I also know how Qur’an was written, I never said Muhammad wrote it, wtf

And if you look back to my posting history from over the years, you’ll see that I actually questioned Islam. This past year I especially went hard, how else do you think I know so much? I visited ex-Muslim forums and websites and everything. Don’t you dare tell me I need to think more. I think more than any poster on here. And definitely more than you. Your ego can’t the fact that you could be wrong about this.

Why tf are all old people like this? I swear...
Refer to below.

Oh yeah, and educate yourself first before you ever try posing any arguments to me. Spaz, this isn’t a fight that you’ll win. And it’s very clear from your own posts that you don’t Islam nearly as well as you think you do. You couldn’t even respond to my other post even though you said that you could be “convincing as hell”

What a lie hahaha
I never lied.

All the information I've given is from the Quran itself.

I purposely used the Quran because you keep on mentioning western propaganda.

So I used the Quran itself, but then you either refuse to answer directly or flat out lied or maybe you don't know any better.

1st you said Mohammed gave the Quran to humanity - you lied, he didn't give write the Quran nor gave it, he was an illiterate.

2nd you implied that Mohammed ascended into heaven much like Jesus - when in actual fact he's was riddled with worms after he died just like everyone else.

3rd you are again implying he did a miracle, by throwing sand to blind the enemy? Might as well say he deflected sunlight by using a mirror or the flat side of his sword to blind the enemy and then call it a miracle.

Again, I ask for 1 singular act, any act, that shows that Mohammed is indeed a prophet of God.

Every single prophet has produced a miracle.

Moses tore apart the red sea to walk across it.

Jesus, brought the dead back to life.

I'm sure the greatest prophet can do more then just throwing up sand...

R u even willing to compare ur own 2 prophets, Mohammed and Jesus?
 

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1st you said Mohammed gave the Quran to humanity - you lied, he didn't give write the Quran nor gave it, he was an illiterate.
Actually, you’ll find that my completely unedited post says this:
And he relayed the Qur’an to humanity.
As we can clearly see here, at no point did I say Muhammad wrote it. I carefully chose my words on purpose. You just damned yourself here.
you implied that Mohammed ascended into heaven much like Jesus
Well guess what genius? You asked me to give a miracle from the Qur’an that Muhammad did, and this is one of them that’s actually mentioned in the Qur’an. Congratulations. You just damned yourself here as well.
3rd you are again implying he did a miracle, by throwing sand to blind the enemy? Might as well say he deflected sunlight by using a mirror or the flat side of his sword to blind the enemy and then call it a miracle.
A small bit of sand from one single man happened to blind an entire army? And it happened in such a way to where they won the battle even though they were outnumbered 3-to-1? That’s a miracle from God if I’ve ever heard one. You just damned yourself here, too.
Again, I ask for 1 singular act, any act, that shows that Mohammed is indeed a prophet of God.
I gave you 3. And now, just like Danger did, you tried twisting my words around to suit your own needs, spiel out wrong information about Islam, and started bringing up other stuff that’s completely unrelated to the topic at hand. Then, you even tried to downplay and trivialize the examples I did give. Face it, you lost. Those Christians you went to that hate Islam? They just gave you wrong information and don’t know nearly as much about Islam as they think they do.
 
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Actually, you’ll find that my completely unedited post says this:

As we can clearly see here, at no point did I say Muhammad wrote it. I carefully chose my words on purpose. You just damned yourself here.

Well guess what genius? You asked me to give a miracle from the Qur’an that Muhammad did, and this is one of them that’s actually mentioned in the Qur’an. Congratulations. You just damned yourself here as well.

A small bit of sand from one single man happened to blind an entire army? And it happened in such a way to where they won the battle even though they were outnumbered 3-to-1? That’s a miracle from God if I’ve ever heard one. You just damned yourself here, too.

I gave you 3. And now, just like Danger did, you tried twisting my words around to suit your own needs, spiel out wrong information about Islam, and started bringing up other stuff that’s completely unrelated to the topic at hand. Then, you even tried to downplay and trivialize the examples I did give. Face it, you lost. Those Christians you went to that hate Islam? They just gave you wrong information and don’t know nearly as much about Islam as they think they do.
No. 1) The Quran didn't exist while Mohammed was alive.

Again u r leading people on by claiming that Mohammed gave the Quran to humanity.

No. 2) What miracle? State the verse in the Quran that states he performed that miracle.

No. 3) I did not twist my words, I explicitly said we shall use the Quran ONLY.

And what I wrote is from the Quran itself.

If you say that I am lying then the Quran itself is either false or you simply don't know it.
 

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No. 1) The Quran didn't exist while Mohammed was alive.

Again u r leading people on by claiming that Mohammed gave the Quran to humanity.
It was verbal. Have you even read the hadiths that talked about this?
No. 2) What miracle? State the verse in the Quran that states he performed that miracle.
Wait no it was the Battle of Hunain, not Badr. It’s talked about in Qur’an 8:17.
No. 3) I did not twist my words, I explicitly said we shall use the Quran ONLY.
But Islam is twofold and I already told you that. You can’t just reject the hadiths, even the Qur’an says so (Qur’an 4:59 | Qur’an 24:63 | Qur’an 59:7).

Like, who do you think you’re trying to fool here?
And what I wrote is from the Quran itself.
Then quote it. Where in the Qur’an does it say Jesus rose form the dead?

Ha, trick question actually, because it doesn’t.
If you say that I am lying then the Quran itself is either false or you simply don't know it.
Bro you’re the one who says that Muslims believe Jesus rose from the dead, and EVERY Muslim regardless of sect will tell you otherwise. Don’t even act like you know more than me. This is one of the basics of Islam and one of the differences between Islam and Christianity. Gtfo if you think it’s written in the Qur’an. Qur’an 4:157 explicitly says Jesus did not die. Sit down.
 

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I’m sorry @Spaz but you just lost all credibility.
Really?

R u gonna admit that Mohammed NEVER created a miracle according to the Quran?

Or if you still prefer to spin it...i can play along.

BTW wasn't it you that said the hadith's is unreliable and that's why I said we shall use the Quran as reference point?

After all Muslims claim the Quran is the word of God that was passed to by an Angel...

R u gonna use the hadith's now since the Quran itself has disproved ur narratives?
 

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

Master Don Juan
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R u gonna admit that Mohammed NEVER created a miracle according to the Quran?

Or if you still prefer to spin it...i can play along.
I mean I literally cited the verses for you. You LITERALLY have the Internet at your fingertips. The sheer laziness is astounding...
BTW wasn't it you that said the hadith's is unreliable
Some of her are, some of them are not. Some are incomplete or are taken out of context. If you had properly read what I said, I stated that there was a verification process.
R u gonna use the hadith's now since the Quran itself has disproved ur narratives?
I gave you 3 examples, and now you’re in denial that I did. Cry me a river.
 
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