Do you open the car door for girls?

[Bokanovsky]

Me and my girl had a row because I didn’t open her the car door. Well, I panicked. I opened mine, then swam to the surface

Is your name Ted Kennedy?

 

[Sophisticator]

Control isn't about fear, it’s about influence. It's not manipulation but creating a dynamic where she wants to follow. Control comes from choice, not coercion. A man with options doesn't make covert contracts; he leads and naturally attracts. You see control as fear, I see it as direction. You see details as submission, I see them as tools of influence. Just because something doesn't fit your approach doesn't make it wrong, it just means you don't understand how it works.

I think the guy you're talking to sees any type of behaviour different from his own as not being as masculine as he purports to be. And any man who treats women with respect as 'servile'.

You can't win an argument with bottom feeders.

By the way, if you open the door for another girl, your chick will twist on you. Especially if the other girl is hotter than her.

That's why you should move on from dating insecure 'chicks' and move on to women who don't feel threatened by their more beautiful peers because they know you're not that shallow.

 

[BeExcellent]

Not just that. If you actually tango, you learn that as the lead, what you do is that you create a space for the follower to shine. Tango is actually a great way to test your relationship dynamics. You cannot lead if she doesn't follow, she cannot shine if you don't lead properly.

Precisely. I tango.

 

[Sophisticator]

Precisely. I tango.

Anyone who tangoes knows it takes two. If someone tends to be a good dancer, most of that dynamic also goes into the personal relationship dynamic.
Most of my lovers in the last decades were dancers. Elegant, feminine, enjoying their role in the dynamic.

 

[Clockwerk50]

I think the guy you're talking to sees any type of behaviour different from his own as not being as masculine as he purports to be. And any man who treats women with respect as 'servile'.

You can't win an argument with bottom feeders.

There’s a Buddhist saying: ‘The identity we create for ourselves is the root of our suffering.’ When someone becomes too attached to a rigid idea of who they are or how things must be, anything outside of that feels like a threat. But sometimes, what we resist the most is exactly what we need to understand.

 

[Sega Genesis]

So guys, if I'm envisioning this correctly, opening the car door for a lady (let's say on date) would require her to, once they reach the destination, her not exiting the vehicle but rather remaining in the passenger seat waiting for you to walk over to her side and open the door for her?

If so, it would seem so awkward to me doing that, like what am I, some entitled princess or something. Lol

I'm ALL for chivalry and appreciate a man holding the door (of a building) for me to enter first or sometimes pulling out my chair as we're about to sit down at a restaurant but...

Unless my getting out of the car myself presents a danger like if I'm wearing super high heels and the car is parked on a sleep slope or cliff where I could fall, I cannot imagine intentionally sitting in the car waiting for my boyfriend or a date to walk over to my side and open the door for me!

If we're attending the theatre or dining at a high-end restaurant, the valet is typically the person who would open the car door for me.

Honestly, if my boyfriend did, I would just feel silly. Realistically, I would have already opened the door myself and exited the vehicle by the time he reached my side anyway!

I dunno maybe I'm weird, it just seems so contrived to me, right up there with bringing me flowers to a first date to impress me.

I'm not a "feminist" but some of these dating rituals just sound silly in today's dating environment, IMO!

 

[Sophisticator]

There’s a Buddhist saying: ‘The identity we create for ourselves is the root of our suffering.’ When someone becomes too attached to a rigid idea of who they are or how things must be, anything outside of that feels like a threat. But sometimes, what we resist the most is exactly what we need to understand.

I agree.

There's also a saying by Mark Twain: “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

 

[Sophisticator]

Unless my getting out of the car myself presents a danger like if I'm wearing super high heels and the car is parked on a sleep slope or cliff where I could fall, I cannot imagine intentionally sitting in the car waiting for my boyfriend or a date to walk over to my side and open the door for me!

If we're attending the theatre or dining at a high-end restaurant, the valet is typically the person who would open the car door for me.

Let's say you do go to an event in a gown and heels.
Do you prefer to be walked by your date to the car and him opening the car door for you and making sure your gown and coat are inside before closing the door and walking around to the driver side, or him just sitting impatiently behind the wheel scanning his phone while waiting for you to get out of the house and walk to the car by yourself on your heels, yank open the door yourself and plonking yourself in the passenger seat while he's drumming his fingers on the steering wheel, probably annoyed that you didn't have a valet to open the door for you?

Sure, it's nice if there's a valet to open your door for you, but if there isn't?

And how about having to go into a less affluent neighbourhood where carjacking is a common occurrence, do you also feel it's unnecessary that your man exits the vehicle before you and walks around the car to let you out safely?

You don't need to be a bodyguard for a woman, but some chivalry had more purposes than just being polite.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Let's say you do go to an event in a gown and heels.
Do you prefer to be walked by your date to the car and him opening the car door for you and making sure your gown and coat are inside before closing the door and walking around to the driver side, or him just sitting impatiently behind the wheel scanning his phone while waiting for you to get out of the house and walk to the car by yourself on your heels, yank open the door yourself and plonking yourself in the passenger seat while he's drumming his fingers on the steering wheel, probably annoyed that you didn't have a valet to open the door for you?

This scenario is a bit different from what I posted and yes to what's bolded. Definitely!

In fact even if I wasnt in a gown, us leaving the house together (or wherever we were) and him opening the car door for me first, I would appreciate!

Under normal circumstances, I just couldn't imagine intentionally sitting in the car waiting for him to walk to my side to open the door once we reached the destination. That's all.

I've seen it happen which is why I presented that scenario.

All in all I really value politeness and good manners. I'm from back east where such things were taught to young men at a very early age.

My brothers are all very polite and "protective" I think women enjoy that feeling - of being protected and "safe" from harm; it's kind of a primal thing imo.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Those things are great, they created intimacy, my only problem is doing it for a random chick who hasn't earn it, or using it as a tool to get something.

^^I agree @New_Journey (underlined) it's what I meant by "contrived." It feels forced, disingenuous, manipulative sometimes even.

Same with buying me flowers on a first date. Many women see this as a BIG plus and a man knows this versus something done genuinely from his heart.

His goal is to impress and personally I'm not into that type of impressing.. Not in those types of ways. They seem phony to me.

I'm either impressed by his presence or I'm not. I'm either attracted to him, his being, his essence and energy or I'm not.

 

[zekko]

Yes, I let them sit down first at dinner, give them roses, escort them to romantic places, pick them up in my car smelling nice and super clean, lead them on the dance floor, wear the clothes and colours they like, light up their cigarette/blunt, bring gifts, open the champagne, fresh haircut, etc.

Give them roses? I won't even give them roses for Valentine's Day anymore. I'll give them something else, but not roses.

I will open a door to an establishment, if I happen to reach it first. If she gets there first, she'll usually open the door for me. If there's a lobby, this means there are two doors and we take turns holding the door for each other. I won't pull out the chair at a restaurant, although we usually prefer to sit in booths where possible. Car doors, never. As I said, used to do it when I was younger, but those were different times.

 

[Clockwerk50]

You don't influence somebody by controlling that person, if you resort to control it means they don't follow you willingly.


Exactly, leaders don't need to control anybody.


Brother, you are using those tools expecting something (control, they'll want more, they will come back to have fun, they will keep fvcking me, whatever you wanna call it) that by definition is a covert contract. If I do X, I will get Y. If they don't know you're doing it to get control, then the other party is not aware, then the contract is covertly, you should give because you want to, not expecting anything in return.


You are 100% on that, that will never be my approach.


Or maybe she has baby rabbies and wants to settle down with you or they love the amazing services you provide and not for who you really are.


So you are saying, if I do all of these things "The right cologne, a glass of wine, an oil massage, candlelight, opening the door for her", she will fall for me. Holy fvck man, you are full of convert contracts.


You just contradicted yourself, you said, you do all of that to get control, for her to fall for you, you have the expectation of doing all of that to get control, therefore, she will fall for you.


This resonated with you, because this is actually you, you do all of those things to be liked.


In order to dance tango the follower needs to willingly follow you, you don't need any tools to make her follow you, just like seduction, simple as dancing.


100% agree, using tools to get something is simp behavior and I don't see it as masculine. That's the same as buying gift, so she will have the good feeling, I will have control over her emotions and she will fall for me, same $hit, different name.


Do men have to use any tools to get you to follow dancing Tango?


Those are the best women.


But isn't your identity the guy who uses tools to get control? That's definitely not healthy.


Those things are great, they created intimacy, my only problem is doing it for a random chick who hasn't earn it, or using it as a tool to get something.

Its like you having sex with a guy who hasn't earn it or having sex to get control, which many women do. So it is a female trait, masculine men don't need any tools to get something, that's like saying I'm a robot, let go to my garage and get some tools to use to get control.

@Clockwerk50 you are exactly what women do to get control by using sex, but with servant behaviors.

I think you’re stuck on the idea that any intentional action to shape an outcome is a “covert contract” which is flawed. Influence always involves some level of control - whether through charisma, emotional connection, or setting the right atmosphere. You’re also equating effort with desperation, which is just posturing.

Lastly, I do these things because I want to, without expectations, and I’ve already explained why they work psychologically. I even put a disclaimer in my first post about when they should be used - when the woman is already intrigued and desires me. How could it be a covert contract if she already likes me? By your definition, even making eye contact with a beautiful woman is a covert contract because, heaven forbid, I might hope she looks back.

By your logic, any action with an expected outcome is manipulation. Does that mean a businessman making a deal, a leader inspiring people, or even you arguing your point is a covert contract? Expecting a result doesn’t make something weak - it makes it effective.

Leaders don’t control with force (unless you are a dictator); they guide, set the tone, and create an environment where people want to follow. That’s not manipulation - it’s understanding psychology. And let’s be real, whether in business, politics, or seduction, the ones who master the details are the ones who get results. If ignoring them was truly better, the most successful men wouldn’t be the ones carefully shaping experiences - they’d be the ones doing nothing.

I think you may need to take a step back and re-read masculine-feminine energy and covert contracts since you’ve got it all wrong.

 

[Clockwerk50]

Give them roses? I won't even give them roses for Valentine's Day anymore. I'll give them something else, but not roses.

I will open a door to an establishment, if I happen to reach it first. If she gets there first, she'll usually open the door for me. If there's a lobby, this means there are two doors and we take turns holding the door for each other. I won't pull out the chair at a restaurant, although we usually prefer to sit in booths where possible. Car doors, never. As I said, used to do it when I was younger, but those were different times.

It works for me. Obviously, I don’t do it all the time - only on special nights and not so often that it becomes predictable. And yeah, I give a rose. It’s $6.99 at the grocery store, not exactly a grand sacrifice. Plus, I’ve already said it only works when she’s intrigued and desires me. I’m not just handing out gestures for nothing - I do it because I like the girl and she likes me back.

I have receipts. If you want I’ll PM you.

 

[BeExcellent]

In order to dance tango the follower needs to willingly follow you, you don't need any tools to make her follow you, just like seduction, simple as dancing.

Do men have to use any tools to get you to follow dancing Tango?

Tango has well defined roles. Each partner must know their roles.

There are no tools required other than a knowledge of the dance and an ability of the man to lead and the woman to follow the lead; the woman CANNOT lead in tango.

 

[Clockwerk50]

So you are investing a lot of money, time, effort, nice dinners and flowers for girls who only are " intrigued by you or desired you" ? With whom you haven't had sex yet? LOL alright Champ, you got this.

Yes, that's the premise of dating. People go to dinners, bars, events, and do nice things for each other. Meanwhile, the man leads and creates opportunities where romance can happen while the woman follows - this happens even before sex. If that's too much effort for a woman I actually like, and who likes me back, l'd question what kind of experiences you're offering. But hey, different approaches lead to different results.

Again, I explained the psychological and behavioral aspects of paying attention to the little details, creating nice experiences, and their power in influencing people, but your counterarguments didn’t engage with the science behind it. I also mentioned that in business, sales, politics, or seduction, those who master the details are the ones who succeed. If ignoring them worked better, the most successful people would be doing nothing. Instead, you relied on incorrect terminology, personal attacks, and a misunderstanding of gender dynamics. I would’ve appreciated at least some bro-science. Nonetheless, you proved my point: I used logic, and it triggered a defensive response. If I had appealed to your emotions, I might’ve been able to change your mind.

Good day.

 

[plumber]

Lol, is this still a thing? It used to be, back when there were still manual locks on the doors. Now days, when I unlock the car, I push the button on my keyfob twice. The first push unlocks the driver side door, the second push unlocks the passenger side. The only way I could unlock the passenger side without first unlocking the driver side is to physically use the key to unlock the door (which is not going to happen).

haha, I still have a truck I use sometimes that is the old way. but, yes your right, this one is probably not anymore.

 

[Oatmeal31]

Yes, that's the premise of dating. People go to dinners, bars, events, and do nice things for each other. Meanwhile, the man leads and creates opportunities where romance can happen while the woman follows - this happens even before sex. If that's too much effort for a woman I actually like, and who likes me back, l'd question what kind of experiences you're offering. But hey, different approaches lead to different results.

Again, I explained the psychological and behavioral aspects of paying attention to the little details, creating nice experiences, and their power in influencing people, but your counterarguments didn’t engage with the science behind it. I also mentioned that in business, sales, politics, or seduction, those who master the details are the ones who succeed. If ignoring them worked better, the most successful people would be doing nothing. Instead, you relied on incorrect terminology, personal attacks, and a misunderstanding of gender dynamics. I would’ve appreciated at least some bro-science. Nonetheless, you proved my point: I used logic, and it triggered a defensive response. If I had appealed to your emotions, I might’ve been able to change your mind.

Good day.

Some people on this site, like any, are so out of touch with reality. Since when is opening doors a big investment? Wtf? I open doors for people regardless of whether I'm attracted or not. It's called having manners and being a decent person. And buying a rose for a special event isn't grand either lmao. Jesus Christ, I instantly block those guys, ain't worth arguing.

 

[sevbucmash]

guys

If the two of you driving to some event, you park, you exit and she sits -- that is expectation of her to get her door opened.

This is uncommon now.

Chances are she'll open her door. But if you exit and she still inside, you walk around your car and open the door for her.

Much common situation is you picking her up from her place. You buy flowers, always an odd number (even number is for funerals and stuff), you give her flowers. Kiss and hug her. Open the door for her. Walk around to your side, sit down. Put some music on. Put her hand on shifter and your hand on top of her hand, and drive.

 

[Sophisticator]

All in all I really value politeness and good manners. I'm from back east where such things were taught to young men at a very early age.
My brothers are all very polite and "protective" I think women enjoy that feeling - of being protected and "safe" from harm; it's kind of a primal thing imo.

That is what I mean. The same thing when I'm walking with a woman, I make sure she doesn't walk too close to the curb and have her purse between us, not dangling outside where a purse-snatcher can yank it from her shoulder. I don't do that because I think women are incapable of guarding their belongings. I do that because I don't want to tempt criminals in seeing us as easy targets.

Chivalry is not about pedestaling women or behaving like a serf, it's about caring about the safety and comfort of your (future) loved ones.

 

[Sophisticator]

This resonated with you, because this is actually you, you do all of those things to be liked.

If you use words like 'resonate', you must also be aware of 'projection'.

I don't know you, but I can read your posts. You don't know me, but you read my posts. I'm sure you've formed some image in your mind that my chivalry is just a technique/method of ingratiating myself to others. However, that says more about how you think and interact with others than an accurate assessment of me.

In order to dance tango the follower needs to willingly follow you, you don't need any tools to make her follow you, just like seduction, simple as dancing.

When you dance tango as the lead, your dance partner follows. If she doesn't (want to) follow, you don't dance with them. Same for dating. You date women who want to be intimate with you. If you have to convince them, they're not interested enough to date.