Did marriage save my friend or was it just coincidence

[DJ Novice]

There is a reason 50% of marriages fail.

Anyone who gets married without a prenup is like driving a car without insurance.

And any guy who thinks marriage or a LTR will solve all his problems will be bitterly disappointed.

If you’ve had any success with women you will realise there are very few worth investing in long term.

And there is no guarantee that even the ones that are will still feel the same way about you in 10 or 20 years’ time.

Dead bedrooms are very common.

 

[Gamisch]

Good for you. Like I said, if marriage ain't for you, that's fine. Just don't think it's not right for everyone else.

Why dont you qoute the entire post including the question I asked you?


Q; what if a man gets divorced/ broken up with at 50? What's he supposed to do?

According to you such a man must rush into the next relationship even marriage because its " sad" if he sits in a bar having fun meeting new women..

 

[quodlibet]

Why dont you qoute the entire post including the question I asked you?


Q; what if a man gets divorced/ broken up with at 50? What's he supposed to do?

According to you such a man must rush into the next relationship even marriage because its " sad" if he sits in a bar having fun meeting new women..

Why do you keep debating? If marriage isn't for you, then so be it.

It seems you're desperate to convince other guys not to get married. I don't care if you or anyone else wants to get married. Being single is a totally reasonable choice.

 

[Gamisch]

Why do you keep debating? If marriage isn't for you, then so be it.

It seems you're desperate to convince other guys not to get married. I don't care if you or anyone else wants to get married. Being single is a totally reasonable choice.

You try to move the goal post. This between you and me isn't about marriage at all. Everyone by now knows my view on marriage( high risk ,low reward)

I debate your stance that a man after 40 or 50 is obligated to get married. But you dodge the question like a coward despite posting the same thing every 3 posts. I assumed you stood behind your words.

And its a forum. Discussion is one of the main goals. A smart man discusses things and gets out even smarter.

 

[BaronOfHair]

What "saves" a man... Taking a look in the mirror, and noting just how average he is

Then making a conscious choice to reduce the more unsavory aspects of himself

 

[CornbreadFed]

Bro..

There's an entire universe between marriage and being Peter pan.

A man can also have relationships with women WITHOUT the forced marriage label. What's up, you lost touch with reality or what's going on????

The more experience I get with women, the more I realize that RUSHING into a marriage is the biggest beta move man can make.

So you're telling me you would simply love to get that high of flexing you are married for a couple of years so you can start over at 40/ 50?

Men ,please do NOT listen to this beta advice as it will ruin your life !!

I stated that I would not recommend rushing into marriage as he did. The grey area is whether his life would have been better or worse had he never married in the first place.

@Barrister makes a reasonable point that the ideal outcome would have been for him to confront his demons independently and develop a sense of purpose. However, I agree that a man should develop his own sense of purpose, but I disagree with the premise that he must first achieve some state of complete self-fulfillment in isolation. That is essentially the one-man-army trope applied to personal development. Human beings do not develop in a vacuum. We rely on relationships, communities, institutions, mentors, families, and social obligations to give our lives structure and meaning. Marriage should not be treated as a cure for a broken life, but neither should we pretend that a man must become a fully self-actualized Superman before marriage or anything can contribute to his growth.

 

[Solomon]

Let's be real. Most men do not want to be players all their lives or even half their lives. Most men, if they find a woman who checks about 80 percent of their boxes or matches what they look for, will gladly marry a woman of their choosing. Personally I am all for it. Marriage helps keep civilizations intact, and we are all watching what happens when degeneracy spreads.

I remember being in my early twenties and seeing men in their forties chasing young women, buying them drinks all night and the rest. I told myself I would never become one of those guys. I have not stepped into a club in years and I am fine with that.

 

[Gamisch]

I stated that I would not recommend rushing into marriage as he did. The grey area is whether his life would have been better or worse had he never married in the first place.

@Barrister makes a reasonable point that the ideal outcome would have been for him to confront his demons independently and develop a sense of purpose. However, I agree that a man should develop his own sense of purpose, but I disagree with the premise that he must first achieve some state of complete self-fulfillment in isolation. That is essentially the one-man-army trope applied to personal development. Human beings do not develop in a vacuum. We rely on relationships, communities, institutions, mentors, families, and social obligations to give our lives structure and meaning. Marriage should not be treated as a cure for a broken life, but neither should we pretend that a man must become a fully self-actualized Superman before marriage or anything can contribute to his growth.

I start to think that the cultural differences might be the reason why I dont understand the necessity to get married, as I'm from Europe and not from the States. Despite both Europe and the US being similar in many aspects, I've learned here that Americans are WAY more conservative at heart. Thus the traditional image including marriage makes sense.

No-one had yet answered the question about the difference between marriage and "just" cohabitation. All the dynamics are basically the same (imo)

And its not men that wanna be superman, it's women that demand men become superman. Most men would obviously like to be " themselves " and find a partner that fits. No matter how we spin it fact remains that most guys have HUGE trouble/ struggle with dating . Let alone long term dating..

The reason why we advice men to first become self sufficient and established is because it will drastically increase your chances of actually landing the woman that you want. Love isn't fair and no man should expect it to be...

 

[CornbreadFed]

I start to think that the cultural differences might be the reason why I dont understand the necessity to get married, as I'm from Europe and not from the States. Despite both Europe and the US being similar in many aspects, I've learned here that Americans are WAY more conservative at heart. Thus the traditional image including marriage makes sense.

Chick-fil-A Corporate American conservatism is fundamentally different from traditional conservatism. It is not particularly traditional. Instead, it selectively uses traditional values as rhetorical cover when they are convenient.

The American rugged individualism mindset is largely a corporate evangelical narrative sold as feel-good slop. In reality, nobody accomplishes much entirely on their own. People rely on families, communities, institutions, employees, employers, infrastructure, public systems, and accumulated knowledge. We are either cooperating with others, benefiting from what others built, or extracting value from someone else's labor. The completely self-made individual is largely a myth.

 

[Gamisch]

Chick-fil-A Corporate American conservatism is fundamentally different from traditional conservatism. It is not particularly traditional. Instead, it selectively uses traditional values as rhetorical cover when they are convenient.

The American rugged individualism mindset is largely a corporate evangelical narrative sold as feel-good slop. In reality, nobody accomplishes much entirely on their own. People rely on families, communities, institutions, employees, employers, infrastructure, public systems, and accumulated knowledge. We are either cooperating with others, benefiting from what others built, or extracting value from someone else's labor. The completely self-made individual is largely a myth.

You repeat your stance( which is a beautiful one by the way, calling for more cohesion) but you dont answer the question...

My personal philosophy is that a man must be self sufficient and rely on himself, let alone positioning himself so that he relies on a woman's whims, but that's a different subject all together.

 

[CornbreadFed]

You repeat your stance( which is a beautiful one by the way, calling for more cohesion) but you dont answer the question...

My personal philosophy is that a man must be self sufficient and rely on himself, let alone positioning himself so that he relies on a woman's whims, but that's a different subject all together.

Telling a man to become completely self-sufficient and rely only on himself is misleading. At the end of the day, every one of us depends on other people and systems for food, protection, income, emotional support, infrastructure, and countless other necessities. Nobody on this entire planet is self-sufficient.

Even in dating, you are inevitably relying on a woman for something, whether that is sex, companionship, affection, or simply trusting her to show up for a date. Once you enter an LTR or marriage, interdependence becomes unavoidable regardless of how you try to spin it.

The better principle is not "never depend on anyone." It is to avoid unhealthy dependence. Maintain your independence where it matters, establish boundaries, do not allow people to take advantage of you, and know when to walk away. Self-sufficiency should mean having agency, not pretending you exist in a vacuum.

 

[Gamisch]

Telling a man to become completely self-sufficient and rely only on himself is misleading. At the end of the day, every one of us depends on other people and systems for food, protection, income, emotional support, infrastructure, and countless other necessities. Nobody on this entire planet is self-sufficient.

Even in dating, you are inevitably relying on a woman for something, whether that is sex, companionship, affection, or simply trusting her to show up for a date. Once you enter an LTR or marriage, interdependence becomes unavoidable regardless of how you try to spin it.

The better principle is not "never depend on anyone." It is to avoid unhealthy dependence. Maintain your independence where it matters, establish boundaries, do not allow people to take advantage of you, and know when to walk away. Self-sufficiency should mean having agency, not pretending you exist in a vacuum.

Lol I specifically stated that's a different topic and yet you dont wanna anwer the question, so I assume you dont have an answer to the question . And thats fine.

And no ,its not misleading. A man definitely gotta be self sufficient. Life will teach him that sooner or later. A man who lives for other people's praise is inherently a weak man. The greatest lesson I've learned is to be self sufficient.

I ALSO mentioned many times before that women actually are drawn to this characteristic. I build my own kingdom brick by brick, knowing every corner and small detail about my castle. A woman or any person can only enter if they add value.

Every person you rely on is another weakness. But again, this is completely changing the topic. The question is simply what's the significant difference between marriage and cohabitation besides the " feelz" ( and the legal ramifications which leave a man extremely vulnerable)

If you or nobody can't even answer such a simple question...its actually quite telling imo.

 

[CornbreadFed]

The question is simply what's the significant difference between marriage and cohabitation besides the " feelz" ( and the legal ramifications which leave a man extremely vulnerable)

I think I answered this question before, and I will give the same answer. Think about lending a friend $500. In Scenario A, you give him the money, and he promises to repay you. You obviously expect him to honor his word, but there is little formal backing for that promise. In Scenario B, you both sign a binding contract establishing the terms and consequences. The fundamental expectation has not changed: you still want your $500 back. What changed is the level of commitment and institutional weight behind that expectation.

That is one of the significant differences between cohabitation and marriage. Marriage takes a private romantic commitment and formalizes it into a legal and social institution. That creates obligations, protections, consequences, and expectations that extend beyond "the feelz" or someone's word. It also gives both parties, their families, and third parties a clearer framework for treating the relationship as a durable commitment.

You can certainly argue that some of those legal consequences make marriage a bad deal. That is a separate argument. But you cannot simultaneously point to those legal consequences as a major risk of marriage and then ask what meaningfully distinguishes marriage from cohabitation. The fact that marriage carries institutional weight is itself part of the distinction. If your only intent with women is to sleep around, then don't get married.

 

[Gamisch]

I think I answered this question before, and I will give the same answer. Think about lending a friend $500. In Scenario A, you give him the money, and he promises to repay you. You obviously expect him to honor his word, but there is little formal backing for that promise. In Scenario B, you both sign a binding contract establishing the terms and consequences. The fundamental expectation has not changed: you still want your $500 back. What changed is the level of commitment and institutional weight behind that expectation.

That is one of the significant differences between cohabitation and marriage. Marriage takes a private romantic commitment and formalizes it into a legal and social institution. That creates obligations, protections, consequences, and expectations that extend beyond "the feelz" or someone's word. It also gives both parties, their families, and third parties a clearer framework for treating the relationship as a durable commitment.

You can certainly argue that some of those legal consequences make marriage a bad deal. That is a separate argument. But you cannot simultaneously point to those legal consequences as a major risk of marriage and then ask what meaningfully distinguishes marriage from cohabitation. The fact that marriage carries institutional weight is itself part of the distinction. If your only intent with women is to sleep around, then don't get married.

" Constitutional weight" aka feelz. Because its feels " more official " but in reality it's literally the exact same dynamic as cohabitation. Arguably it puts even MORE pressure on the relationship, and pressure can and will crack people's minds and hearts .

Look bro, from a woman I can somewhat take this as they operate on emotions constantly. Women dream abojt the ceremony, the dress ,the qedding trip. But from a man? I expect a man to be more grounded in reality. It's sounds great on paper, but in reality it's not as easy as you make it sound. The term " honeymoon phase " is an extremely strong one for a good, good reason; when the "smell of newness " wears off ( which it will) you cant pivot anymore...

This reminds me of an argument I had with my ex about diamonds. I told her that lab diamonds are cheap, and indistinguishable from real diamonds. But in her mind it wouldn't register , as she grew up with the idea that " diamonds are a woman's best friend " and thus she believed that there GOTTA be expensive diamonds, a she reads about it, women flaunt it ect and that she wouldn't acvept a lab daimind if she ever gets married LOL. Marriage is similar. It's an industry, that should be reserved for the upper echelon of society to merge power. But as with most of these things like designer, diamonds ect the "normal peasant " thinks its a huge flex if he ( HE) can also take part of it.


Some believes are hardwired...

Thanks for clarifying tho.

 

[Mike32ct]

I start to think that the cultural differences might be the reason why I dont understand the necessity to get married, as I'm from Europe and not from the States. Despite both Europe and the US being similar in many aspects, I've learned here that Americans are WAY more conservative at heart. Thus the traditional image including marriage makes sense.

No-one had yet answered the question about the difference between marriage and "just" cohabitation. All the dynamics are basically the same (imo)

And its not men that wanna be superman, it's women that demand men become superman. Most men would obviously like to be " themselves " and find a partner that fits. No matter how we spin it fact remains that most guys have HUGE trouble/ struggle with dating . Let alone long term dating..

The reason why we advice men to first become self sufficient and established is because it will drastically increase your chances of actually landing the woman that you want. Love isn't fair and no man should expect it to be...

I’m neutral on marriage, but some states in the US will consider you legally married if you cohabitate for X number of years.

 

[CornbreadFed]

" Constitutional weight" aka feelz. Because its feels " more official " but in reality it's literally the exact same dynamic as cohabitation. Arguably it puts even MORE pressure on the relationship, and pressure can and will crack people's minds and hearts .

Look bro, from a woman I can somewhat take this as they operate on emotions constantly. Women dream abojt the ceremony, the dress ,the qedding trip. But from a man? I expect a man to be more grounded in reality. It's sounds great on paper, but in reality it's not as easy as you make it sound. The term " honeymoon phase " is an extremely strong one for a good, good reason; when the "smell of newness " wears off ( which it will) you cant pivot anymore...

Plenty of couples just get married at the courthouse like my friend mentioned in this topic. In addition, this all goes back to qualifying your woman and how big your nuts are during the dating phase. If there is a disagreement between both parties regarding a wedding, then grow a pair and negotiate or leave the relationship. Unless the woman is holding you at gunpoint, you guys have every right to end the relationship.

This reminds me of an argument I had with my ex about diamonds. I told her that lab diamonds are cheap, and indistinguishable from real diamonds. But in her mind it wouldn't register , as she grew up with the idea that " diamonds are a woman's best friend " and thus she believed that there GOTTA be expensive diamonds, a she reads about it, women flaunt it ect and that she wouldn't acvept a lab daimind if she ever gets married LOL. Marriage is similar. It's an industry, that should be reserved for the upper echelon of society to merge power. But as with most of these things like designer, diamonds ect the "normal peasant " thinks its a huge flex if he ( HE) can also take part of it.

No offense, but this is just the guy failing to establish a dominant frame earlier on in the relationship because the woman saw him as a beta male provider from the start. As a result, she is going to expect beta male provider benefits like diamonds, weddings, everything paid for, etc. Trust me, she isn't making these demands to big dvck Rodney or Chad.

 

[Gamisch]

Plenty of couples just get married at the courthouse like my friend mentioned in this topic. In addition, this all goes back to qualifying your woman and how big your nuts are during the dating phase. If there is a disagreement between both parties regarding a wedding, then grow a pair and negotiate or leave the relationship. Unless the woman is holding you at gunpoint, you guys have every right to end the relationship.



No offense, but this is just the guy failing to establish a dominant frame earlier on in the relationship because the woman saw him as a beta male provider from the start. As a result, she is going to expect beta male provider benefits like diamonds, weddings, everything paid for, etc. Trust me, she isn't making these demands to big dvck Rodney or Chad.

99% of women dream or dreamt about a "big beautiful wedding" at some point in their life even the biggest wh0re on earth.

And in their minds they know EXACTLY how it will go what they will wear , where it takes place ect. That includes a daimond ring, despite the fact that diamonds are heavily inflated. Facts or not, once a woman has something in her head its nearly impossible to talk her out of it or convince her otherwise.

It's just an example to show how hardwired beliefs work. I know you perfectly understand what I mean. Same goes for marriage in general. Woman ( and apparently tons of beta males) have this hardwired believe that marriage is some magical holy seal while in reality its just an industry build to milk men from their money.

Matter of fact; Most guys who chase marriage including your friend will wife up a woman who indeed had no rules for Rodney and Chad. And it will be Rodney and Chad who will eventually pull her back and destroy her marriage...

 

[CornbreadFed]

99% of women dream or dreamt about a "big beautiful wedding" at some point in their life even the biggest wh0re on earth.

It's just an example to show how hardwired beliefs work. I know you perfectly understand what I mean. Same goes for marriage in general. Woman ( and apparently tons of beta males) have this hardwired believe that marriage is some magical holy seal while in reality its just an industry build to milk men from their money.

Matter of fact; Most guys who chase marriage including your friend will wife up a woman who indeed had no rules for Rodney and Chad. And it will be Rodney and Chad who will eventually pull her back and destroy her marriage...

I have been in plenty of LTRs where marriage was a realistic possibility, and I have never had a woman insist on some extravagant traditional wedding unless it was culturally expected and her wealthy family was paying for it.

I understand that you are uncomfortable with institutions, but virtually every aspect of modern life depends on them. Contracts, property rights, banking, employment, courts, and even basic public infrastructure rely on institutional rules and enforcement. That is simply how complex societies function.

If personal promises and "vibes" were sufficient to maintain cooperation, we would have little need for contracts, courts, or governments in the first place. Marriage follows the same basic principle: it takes a private commitment between two people and gives it formal social and legal recognition.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Telling a man to become completely self-sufficient and rely only on himself is misleading. At the end of the day, every one of us depends on other people and systems for food, protection, income, emotional support, infrastructure, and countless other necessities. Nobody on this entire planet is self-sufficient.

Even in dating, you are inevitably relying on a woman for something, whether that is sex, companionship, affection, or simply trusting her to show up for a date. Once you enter an LTR or marriage, interdependence becomes unavoidable regardless of how you try to spin it.

The better principle is not "never depend on anyone." It is to avoid unhealthy dependence. Maintain your independence where it matters, establish boundaries, do not allow people to take advantage of you, and know when to walk away. Self-sufficiency should mean having agency, not pretending you exist in a vacuum.

Sure, some of this is true. The difference I think is that you shouldn't need a woman to "regulate" your well-being.

And by that I mean, on his own he has all these self-destructive tendencies and then when with a woman she "regulates" those tendencies so that they either lessen or are kept in check. I was going to say disappear but let's be real, those never fully are going to disappear, and will probably resurgence from time to time in different ways even while being "regulated" by her.

I think this amounts to over reliance on someone to help fix things that are within HIS control to resolve but either he chooses not to do the work until he is forced to by someone he doesn't want to lose or he only cares when he has something to lose other than himself or his life.

For lack of a better term, you shouldn't need someone, woman or otherwise, to prevent you from being a degenerate. There is a huge problem with that, if you are arguing otherwise, I'm not sure what the counterpoint would be.

 

[Manure Spherian]

99% of women dream or dreamt about a "big beautiful wedding" at some point in their life even the biggest wh0re on earth.

And in their minds they know EXACTLY how it will go what they will wear , where it takes place ect. That includes a daimond ring, despite the fact that diamonds are heavily inflated. Facts or not, once a woman has something in her head its nearly impossible to talk her out of it or convince her otherwise.

It's just an example to show how hardwired beliefs work. I know you perfectly understand what I mean. Same goes for marriage in general. Woman ( and apparently tons of beta males) have this hardwired believe that marriage is some magical holy seal while in reality its just an industry build to milk men from their money.

Matter of fact; Most guys who chase marriage including your friend will wife up a woman who indeed had no rules for Rodney and Chad. And it will be Rodney and Chad who will eventually pull her back and destroy her marriage...

Not only is this forum shifted towards more discussion on marriage, much of it has also shifted towards MGTOW.