Did anyone try Juicing?

[Pickupmilitia]

Espi just because you feel the need to use illegal substances to build your body up (for no other use but to look good and feel strong) please don't encourage others to do the same. I know misery loves company but steroids are provingly dangerous for one's health.

Lyle Alzado by his own admission says steroids caused his health to detoriate... so his physicians says it didn't link directly to the brain tumor but you should emphasize the first part of what they said "and that while steroids do have harsh side effects"

An illegal drug with harsh side effects is nothing I'd encourage anyone to pursue.

And are you making millions of dollars using steroids as you pointed out? Maybe the steroids clouded your vision and you are unable to read clearly now to what I wrote.

There is countless information out there showing that steroids cause negative health consequences. Even the article you cited about Lyle Alzado trying to defend yourself showed the physicians saying they have harsh side effects.

Anyone who uses steroids continuously has no inner game and poor self confidence that they need it to artificially boost...

 

[Pimp-sicle]

Thanks for your good post, Pimp. I responded in bold.

Also everyone's talking about gear here, no one's talking about the side effects. Most get horrible post cycle acne on their body.

Respectfully: who cares about acne? What's the point?

I dunno about you, but I DEFINITELY care about acne. Lets be honest many guys who 'roid do it for improved self image and self esteem?? I'd be willing to guess that 95% or more in my opinion... Well whats the point if you get tons of acne with your new muscle? I say this from experience..... although I will say its body acne, not on your face at all for men.

You'll notice that your skin will improve when your on it, but quickly go haywire especially with Test when you get off.

This is simply not true. You're misinformed. Different steroids will affect the texture of the skin accordingly...but my skin has never went "haywire" post cycle. It looks like regualr skin...???? I don't even understand this..."haywire"?


I was speaking about Test since that was what Wasabi was/is considering as the main drug for his stack. There are definitely others that don't cause much, if any acne.

LOL... what I meant by haywire is the effects Test has on it post cycle.... once you stop injecting Test and your estrogen levels elevate, there's definitely that grace period where your hormones are completely out of whack until you start your ancillary drugs..... haywire = skin goes crazy for some


Gyno is a serious concern with Test as well,

Yes--this is true.

and can strike pretty quick even after just one cycle if your pre-disposed to it.

Actually-gyno can strike DURING cycle...but, if one uses steroids PROPERLY and commonsenscially...he knows to have Nolvadex on hand. Google it. I stand by my words.

I know what Nolvadex is bro.... I know what Clomid is.... I know how to use 'roids if I ever choose to again. Since you brought up Nolvadex, why don't you talk about how it will take away a chunk of your gains, ESPECIALLY if you get on it during your cycle to combat gyno??

Lastly the psychological dependence it creates is also hard to deal with.....

Yes, you are correct.

when you get close to the end of your cycle you won't want to get off.

True...I've been through it several times. Same thing when a GF leaves you...or a relative dies...or you stop using a personal trainer...lots of things to get hung upon about "psychological dependence." The best things in life do indeed make you dependent. That's what makes life worth living.

I see your point, but in the case of a GF specifically, you can always replace her with one who's higher quality and hotter. When you get off 'roids, no amount of supps and eating is going to make your body into the muscle buidling machine that you were when you were on a cycle...

Personally I don't think roids are a bad thing to the educated seasoned lifter. You...DEFINITELY will end up doing more harm than good in the long run without proper education.

Agreed.

PIMP

 

[Pimp-sicle]

Espi just because you feel the need to use illegal substances to build your body up (for no other use but to look good and feel strong) please don't encourage others to do the same. I know misery loves company but steroids are provingly dangerous for one's health.

Pickupmilitia: Actually bro, Espi knows his stuff pretty well, I think your a little misinformed if anything. Steroids like anything else are dangerous when used by the uneducated person..... there are many commercial drugs prescribed everyday for common ailments which also have life threatening effects if abused. How come people who commit suicide never choose 'roids to OD on?? Instead they use things like Valium and Codeine to OD on.


Lyle Alzado by his own admission says steroids caused his health to detoriate... so his physicians says it didn't link directly to the brain tumor but you should emphasize the first part of what they said "and that while steroids do have harsh side effects"

Lyle Alzado... a man who used steroids YEAR ROUND, was uneducated on how to cycle properly, and also suffered severe brain trauma from all the years he played pro ball.... that's a good example.

An illegal drug with harsh side effects is nothing I'd encourage anyone to pursue.

You have a point here and I agree that we should't encourage anyone to use drugs, but IMHO steroids although dangerous in the wrong hands have tremendous benefits when used properly. For the record I did one cycle and started a second one after cycling off for 6 months before I realized that I didn't need them to be happy with my physique... haven't used them since I as 22. Do I regret it? No, if I could change anything I would have used them at my current age rather than at 22.

There is countless information out there showing that steroids cause negative health consequences. Even the article you cited about Lyle Alzado trying to defend yourself showed the physicians saying they have harsh side effects.

Anyone who uses steroids continuously has no inner game and poor self confidence that they need it to artificially boost...

Continuously is the key word there. Using them year round shows you have no respect for yourself or your health. But as I said before when used properly they can be extremely beneficial. I highly doubt I'll ever use them again, but still see the benefits they provide.

Lastly I think the "confidence" Espi was referring to was how you feel when your on Test... when your Test levels are elevated you wake up feeling so good. You literally feel unstoppable, like you can do anything. I don't think he meant to say he "needs them" to feel confident in general, just pointing out how great you feel when your on them.





PIMP

 

[Pickupmilitia]

"Pickupmilitia: Actually bro, Espi knows his stuff pretty well, I think your a little misinformed if anything. Steroids like anything else are dangerous when used by the uneducated person..... there are many commercial drugs prescribed everyday for common ailments which also have life threatening effects if abused. How come people who commit suicide never choose 'roids to OD on?? Instead they use things like Valium and Codeine to OD on."

WTF are you talking about??? You are taking this out of context which is really all steroid users can do when it comes to arguing for it. Because nobody never overdoses on steroids when trying to commit suicide means they are safe???? Just reread what I wrote here 5 times so I don't have to explain how absurd you are.

"Lyle Alzado... a man who used steroids YEAR ROUND, was uneducated on how to cycle properly, and also suffered severe brain trauma from all the years he played pro ball.... that's a good example."

How do you know he was uneducated on proper cycling? The fact that he used them regularly would logically say he knew more about cycling than you do. Do you play any professional sports????

"You have a point here and I agree that we should't encourage anyone to use drugs, but IMHO steroids although dangerous in the wrong hands have tremendous benefits when used properly. For the record I did one cycle and started a second one after cycling off for 6 months before I realized that I didn't need them to be happy with my physique... haven't used them since I as 22. Do I regret it? No, if I could change anything I would have used them at my current age rather than at 22."

Why exactly do you feel you need them? To look a little bigger? To feel a little stronger? I mean I think its wrong for professional atheletes to be doing it but at least they can give a reason for needing to cheat their natural thresholds.... Regular everyday people who use them are just pathetic

 

[blinkwatt101]

I think this whole thread would 'clear the fog' as to who to listen to if people would post pics of their physiques....then we would know-who has been there,done that and has put together a respectable body in correlation to the information they are providing here to others. I've seen people with HUGE guts give out ab exercise advice in the gym.....I can't imagine how much b.s. is given out on the web.

Actually no one here should reference any sport athletes in regards to steroids,UNLESS you know what they took,what brand it was,how long they took it,what mg or volume. Otherwise just throwing the word steroid out there is wasted time.

And to anyone who does not think steroids are safe at all. Google the four topics below.

Women birth control - steroid,used to control hormones and such
Testosterone - used for sex gender post therapy recovery
Anavar - Given to burn victims,AIDS victims and people with muscle growth deficiencies
Winstrol - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanozolol

 

[TheSplat]

"Pickupmilitia: Actually bro, Espi knows his stuff pretty well, I think your a little misinformed if anything. Steroids like anything else are dangerous when used by the uneducated person..... there are many commercial drugs prescribed everyday for common ailments which also have life threatening effects if abused. How come people who commit suicide never choose 'roids to OD on?? Instead they use things like Valium and Codeine to OD on."

WTF are you talking about??? You are taking this out of context which is really all steroid users can do when it comes to arguing for it. Because nobody never overdoses on steroids when trying to commit suicide means they are safe???? Just reread what I wrote here 5 times so I don't have to explain how absurd you are.

"Lyle Alzado... a man who used steroids YEAR ROUND, was uneducated on how to cycle properly, and also suffered severe brain trauma from all the years he played pro ball.... that's a good example."

How do you know he was uneducated on proper cycling? The fact that he used them regularly would logically say he knew more about cycling than you do. Do you play any professional sports????

"You have a point here and I agree that we should't encourage anyone to use drugs, but IMHO steroids although dangerous in the wrong hands have tremendous benefits when used properly. For the record I did one cycle and started a second one after cycling off for 6 months before I realized that I didn't need them to be happy with my physique... haven't used them since I as 22. Do I regret it? No, if I could change anything I would have used them at my current age rather than at 22."

Why exactly do you feel you need them? To look a little bigger? To feel a little stronger? I mean I think its wrong for professional atheletes to be doing it but at least they can give a reason for needing to cheat their natural thresholds.... Regular everyday people who use them are just pathetic

Dude, you have NO idea what you're talking about. Why don't you just get out of this thread and stop worrying about what other people do. You are the one with weak inner game if you have to hate like this son.

 

[CarlitosWay]

Steroids if done right are not as bad as people think. Most people bashing it are clueless as to how much works goes into doing a cycle right. I have not ventured to that point yet but...*wink* *wink* we'll see, but actually speak to a selected highly experienced few who have done cycles and have educated themselves fully. Also acknowledging the risks of not doing them correctly. Learning the pros/cons of certain staks, pretty much studying every aspect.

For ever 10-15 who does a cycle and gets great results you have the one dumb ass who does a terrible job. Guess which story gets most talked about and spread?

Now here I have a great example of some one who took the initiative to learn every facet of responsible use. You cannot argue with his results...his hard work put into nutrition and everything shows itself.

http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_forum/pictures_pics_photo_body_image_performance/grateful

(I think he represents the ideal physique for most men) Also I guarantee most physiques you see and say "I want to look like that one day" most likely have used "something" even if it was minute.

Interview - with Caveman (VERY INFORMATIVE and I think might open eyes for some people)
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_...raining_performance_interviews/caveman_speaks

another one big boy (early twenties already pushing 270+)
http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_onl...uilding_alpha/call_me_out?id=3073062&pageNo=0

Another guy who knows what's up.
http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_onl...y_image_performance/dohcrazy_626_x_1_deadlift

 

[synergy1]

Actually no one here should reference any sport athletes in regards to steroids,UNLESS you know what they took,what brand it was,how long they took it,what mg or volume. Otherwise just throwing the word steroid out there is wasted time.


I realize this is towards me, and again realize that the athlete in question could have possibly not taken steroids. Notice how I did not mention who it was, as it was merely speculation on my end - others think the same too. Either way, whatever cycles, volume he might have taken, the results spoke for themselves. Either great training brought this kid to all American , or steroids did and this makes a legitimate case for either working hard, or how effective using "gear" can be.

Either way, to each their own. As is the case with some who advocate using, I advocate exploring what improvements can be made without it.

 

[CarlitosWay]

Thanks for the post. You provided some insightful articles.

Respectfully, there's nothing "bad" whatsoever when it comes to using steroids the "right way." It's not a question of minimizing the "bad." In my mind, that is like equating steroid use to smoking cigarettes...that's not a good comparision.

I say that using steroids the "right" way is a GOOD thing...a VERY GOOD thing...so good, in fact, that one can live a longer and healthier and happier life. I stand by my words.

Yeah I should have rephrased that to "Steroids aren't bad persay, but the uneducated people and abusers are."

 

[WC2]

In my humble opinion I think the 500/400 doses you're suggesting is way too much gear for a 165 lb newbie. I've been training for > 10 years, am a former high performance athlete, and am self-employed part time as an exotic entertainer... I'm also a healthcare professional w/ 2 university degrees in the biomedical sciences. I have several cycles under my belt, and apart from my first cycle, when I didn't know what I was doing, I've never ran that much gear. A dude who's 165 lbs really shouldn't need that much.

In addition, deca is notorious for shutting down the HPTA. I never use it. Furthermore, the ester hydrolysis reaction that liberates the nandralone residue from the decanoate ester is reversible. This is probably one of the mechanisms why PCT can be tough after deca cycles. I've heard to start PCT 3 wks after the last deca injection... but since I never use it, I could be wrong.

I think PCT, although there are certain guidelines, is an individual thing. I personally like to use clomiphene for 21-28 days coupled w/ high dose tribulus. Some guys like to use arimidex or other aromatase inhibitors during cycle, and hCG during post-cycle in addition to clomid.... there's not real "right way", as everyone has very unique metabolisms.

Either way, he needs to figure out WHY he wants to use and what results he wants to get prior to choosing drugs.

Agreed.. and that's why I mentioned secondary sources in my post; because I have never RUN deca in particular. You're quite right about dosages though.. I ran a lot of test for my first cycle and got the same results on my second cycle using quite a bit less. Also had less side effects.

If I would have seen these pictures beforehand, I would have never recommended a cycle to this individual.