Develop your chops!

[Gonzalo]

As a guitarist, I usually enjoy making metaphors with music when thinking about the whole seduction stuff. So if you'll spare me the musical comparison, I'd like to comment on the recent debate on ASF vs DJ.

When I started learning to play the guitar, it was at first all about getting the fingers to obbey my command; to produce the sounds I wanted them to. That alone took me a good amount of years as a teenager. And it is something one can never stop improving at.

But also, when in highschool, I once played for a teacher, who commented on my playing, saying that I was producing sound and all... but wasn't really "making music" (I wasn't bringing out the particular features of that which I was trying to say). So in order to get better at that, I had to study, read, and analyze many musical pieces, such that I would understand what their PURPOSE was, and how I was to relate to them when playing them. That is, I had to develop my "musicality," other than my finger chops (technical ease).

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Now, the way I see things, seduction is very very similar: you have the DJ Forum, with just beautiful works in the DJB helping guys get in touch with who they are as men, etc, namely inner game (their "musicality). And that is all great, but understand something. Going back to my analogy, what purpose would it have to know a lot about music and the qualities of a certain style, if I don't have the facility in my fingers to bring the music about? Much utility if I want to become a theorist (KBJ), but not much if I want to get out there and walk the walk.

So what I think guys should do is develop the"technical facility" (outer game) parallel to their inner game. Think about it, does it make sense to read pages and paes of Pookian posts about inner game, and just chuck the whole outer game to "just walk up, say hi, and the rest will flow naturally"? I don't think so. If you want to really get better at it, you need a set of tools that will allow you to handle the situations you encounter.

THAT'S where the whole PUA tools come in handy: How to open, how to convey value, how to jump into patterns, phone game, etc etc etc. Thinking that being a MAN and being succesful such that people will naturally revolve to you is like saying that knowing a lot of music THEORY will make you a good guitar PERFORMER.

I see here a rennaisance in many guy's interest in PUA stuff, and I think that's all great. If one is to really understand "meeting, attracting, and dating" women, then one has to know how to handle the entire interaction, not just the mental preparation prior to it. The title of this thread is the advice I give to many students of mine who get caught up in music theory and start neglecting their finger-abbility with the guitar: WORK ON YOUR CHOPS! If you find you know many things on inner game, but are totally clueless about how to open a group, or how to [insert any useful technique here], then wtf, just take a couple of days to learn how to go about workin on that, and then get out there and try it out. You'll see that developing that dimension will not only affect your game drastically, but also make you appreciate the inner game stuff that we love here so much (and I say that with the deepest appreciation to the posters who have positively influenced my inner game in this forum).

Don't get cought up in theory, develop those chops!

Note: those who think that just saying hi and asking for a number will give a guy an understanding of how to actually PROGRESS in their interactions with women, in the direction which you want to lead it... I invite you guys to reconsider that maybe, just maybe, some people need to actually learn how to do those things... if it were so natural, after all, most of us would probably not be here.

G

 

[ADifferentKindofDJ]

Ying and Yang

So what your saying is there is an flow between PUA and DJ that gets you the girl. Very interesting. Its my understanding that a PUA would pick up any woman(single/married/has boyfriend) and a DJ would go after the single ones that have a potential for a relationship. What do you think??

 

[Gonzalo]

Re: Ying and Yang

Originally posted by ADifferentKindofDJ
So what your saying is there is an flow between PUA and DJ that gets you the girl. Very interesting. Its my understanding that a PUA would pick up any woman(single/married/has boyfriend) and a DJ would go after the single ones that have a potential for a relationship. What do you think??

More than a distinction between DJs and PUAs, and the reason why I posted this stuff in Tips, is that I think DJying is to a whole extent knowledge (which, of course, has to be incorporated into your own personality through use), and PUA is to a large extent technique.

Many guys shun on asf stuff because they think that will make them some sort of jerk or liar to women. But in fact, if you want to get out there and meet/attract some quality women, you do need the technique, you do need to know and be prepared with something to say when you open.

I don't know the experience of a lot of people here, but there was a time when I was pretty confident in walking up to any women, make some fluff talk, and getting the number. That, however, didn't mean that I would either get the date, or that the date would be fun and move into a physical direction. Because in order to move in that direction, that is, in order to create STATES of attraction and desire in a woman, you have to know how to go about doing this. Many guys say "walk up, say hi, and take it from there". Take it where? Letting her talk about her job and stuff like that? There is a void here on what to actually SAY to women in order to progress with her, which is totally different from ideas such as challenge, CF, etc. Those things, the ones that let you move in directions which you can control, are what I call "chops", a set of skills, which you won't find here, but I consider important nonetheless.

It's all about whether you want to get out there and try sh1t out. The best part is that no one really has to go out and invent the wheel; there is already a vast amount of material floating around that can help guys progress pretty quickly. Whatever you do with the women you get in contact with should be something really personal, aside from whether you suscribe to the DJ or PUA philosophy. Just a thought.

G

 

[Ilovemesomeme]

Gonzo,

Not to get off your point, but you said you play guitar. I know the singers and guitarists get the chicks, but us drummers are comming on strong. The last few girls I dated said watching me play drums turn them on. Who would have thought. I just joined this band that has a promising future, so I encouraged by the future prospects. I will certainly develop my chops. If I perfect my paradiddles, and double stroke rolls I will have chicks on my like a magnet .

Sorry to get off topic. I couldn't resist.

 

[MVP]

Gonzalo, that's a keen observation. Having confidence alone isn't enough. There has to be social skills. I have been in situations in the past where I had lots of confidence (inner game) but I could do nothing about it when i was on a date with a girl. What was I supposed to do? Just sit there and talk about how confident I was in my life?

 

[ethnomethodologist]

Originally posted by MVP
What was I supposed to do? Just sit there and talk about how confident I was in my life?

Talk to her with a reason? That is my intention, If I am to be left alone sitting to a wall, I have far more to say speaking to another person. I try to connect, I see what makes eachother the same. I see what make easchother different. I make sure she knows, we can only compliment eachother, we are never going to be 'together'. They eat me up, I let myself be eaten, and at the same time as I give more of myself, they feel inclined to let me lick their wounds... (ew that last part sounded like I'm some vampire guy)

Gonzalo, I praticed music before, I "practiced my chops" and I bled. I had callouses so bad I couldn't write for a day after I practiced, I struggled to learn te subject material, but I had no desire to learn, I only had the desire to play.

Now, 3 years later, My hands are dumb to the guitar. My ears are deaf to the chords. My eyes gaze upon foreign language with the music.

Why, after all the work I put into the music, do I look back now and know I had wasted my time?

 

[Gonzalo]

Originally posted by ethnomethodologist
Gonzalo, I praticed music before, I "practiced my chops" and I bled. I had callouses so bad I couldn't write for a day after I practiced, I struggled to learn te subject material, but I had no desire to learn, I only had the desire to play.

Now, 3 years later, My hands are dumb to the guitar. My ears are deaf to the chords. My eyes gaze upon foreign language with the music.

Why, after all the work I put into the music, do I look back now and know I had wasted my time?

I don't know if you're using that as a metaphore on how you got burned by not being yourself or you're just feeling nostalgic. In any case, my point in this thread is that instead of just "going at it" and coming up with stuff to say on the fly, which, without some previous sketch of a gameplan, WILL NOT help you advance with the girl, it's good for guys to develop a... repertoire? of stuff to use. Great examples of these stuff are the ones of, say, asf.

Even many guys will acknowledge the fact that stuff like C&F is great, but just throwing C&F line after line won't cause the girl to just jump you at the end of the night. Many times the guys doing that end up just making the girl have a good chuckle, and getting a playful punch at best.

Have a plan, know your game, develop your chops!

G