Dating and women are the only thing I've ever feared

[Samol11]

I (25yo) was a relatively shy kid, late bloomer, overweight, unsociable. Didn't drink until I was 18 (from the UK), didn't have a girlfriend until I was 21, didn't have sex until I was 21.

That relationship ended because I was too immature and insecure - needed constant reassurance she still liked me, had serious anxiety every time she didn't respond to one of my texts in a while, and ended up threatening to break up with her every week because I couldn't control my emotions and wanted to self-sabotage. She got fed up eventually.

I'd like to think myself as pretty self-aware.

I saw this dumping as a chance to reinvent myself, and to improve myself. I dove into the deep end consuming red pill content, started eating healthier, worked out every day and became much more confident and proficient with women.

This was 4 years ago. All of my efforts since have been in trying to quell this feeling of self-loathing. To try and make myself better, because in my eyes I wasn't good enough.

I seriously thought I'd developed massively. I started my own business, am now so much more confident, able to strike up small talk with anyone and get dates fairly easily.

And then I get attached.

I've always been a lover boy at heart unfortunately, get too attached too easily and find it incredibly hard to talk to more than one girl at a time.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the game. But I'm tired of playing it. Seriously.

Every time I'm dating a girl I start to develop feelings for, it all goes wrong. I start texting too quickly, giving too much away, my primary mental energy goes towards her instead of my business, or my training, or my friends.

I'm now at the stage where I'm 25 years old, never been in a serious relationship, and it's starting to really really affect me. I know I can't get a relationship if I'm too desperate and needy, need to maintain my frame etc, I've tried all breathing techniques, making myself busy. But every time I start dating someone, it consumes my life and my mental capacity to the point I'm mentally exhausted.

Then it reared it's ugly head again.

Been talking to a girl for 3 weeks that I went on a first date with this week. Day after the date I text her, she texts back then waits a few hours before texting back again. I'm having a full of meltdown at the gym because I see she unmatched me on dating app (not sure when this was), so I thought she was uninterested and double texted her. Turns out she was out with her mum. Now, I've more than likely pushed her away.

Can't help myself but analyse texting patterns, thinking why hasn't she text me when she's off work today? Is speaking to other guys? Does she still like me? etc etc.

I have an addiction to self-sabotage and I can't stop it.

I'm all consumed when I date. They leave. I'm single. Lonely. Go back on dating apps. The cycle continues.

Really don't know where to go from here to be honest.

In all other aspects of my life I'm a calm, composed, relaxed guy. When it comes to dating and girls, I'm an anxious psycho mess.

Want to give it up, but I know I won't.

 

[Travel memoir21]

I (25yo) was a relatively shy kid, late bloomer, overweight, unsociable. Didn't drink until I was 18 (from the UK), didn't have a girlfriend until I was 21, didn't have sex until I was 21.

That relationship ended because I was too immature and insecure - needed constant reassurance she still liked me, had serious anxiety every time she didn't respond to one of my texts in a while, and ended up threatening to break up with her every week because I couldn't control my emotions and wanted to self-sabotage. She got fed up eventually.

I'd like to think myself as pretty self-aware.

I saw this dumping as a chance to reinvent myself, and to improve myself. I dove into the deep end consuming red pill content, started eating healthier, worked out every day and became much more confident and proficient with women.

This was 4 years ago. All of my efforts since have been in trying to quell this feeling of self-loathing. To try and make myself better, because in my eyes I wasn't good enough.

I seriously thought I'd developed massively. I started my own business, am now so much more confident, able to strike up small talk with anyone and get dates fairly easily.

And then I get attached.

I've always been a lover boy at heart unfortunately, get too attached too easily and find it incredibly hard to talk to more than one girl at a time.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the game. But I'm tired of playing it. Seriously.

Every time I'm dating a girl I start to develop feelings for, it all goes wrong. I start texting too quickly, giving too much away, my primary mental energy goes towards her instead of my business, or my training, or my friends.

I'm now at the stage where I'm 25 years old, never been in a serious relationship, and it's starting to really really affect me. I know I can't get a relationship if I'm too desperate and needy, need to maintain my frame etc, I've tried all breathing techniques, making myself busy. But every time I start dating someone, it consumes my life and my mental capacity to the point I'm mentally exhausted.

Then it reared it's ugly head again.

Been talking to a girl for 3 weeks that I went on a first date with this week. Day after the date I text her, she texts back then waits a few hours before texting back again. I'm having a full of meltdown at the gym because I see she unmatched me on dating app (not sure when this was), so I thought she was uninterested and double texted her. Turns out she was out with her mum. Now, I've more than likely pushed her away.

Can't help myself but analyse texting patterns, thinking why hasn't she text me when she's off work today? Is speaking to other guys? Does she still like me? etc etc.

I have an addiction to self-sabotage and I can't stop it.

I'm all consumed when I date. They leave. I'm single. Lonely. Go back on dating apps. The cycle continues.

Really don't know where to go from here to be honest.

In all other aspects of my life I'm a calm, composed, relaxed guy. When it comes to dating and girls, I'm an anxious psycho mess.

Want to give it up, but I know I won't.

You’re only twenty five, so young. You should continue focusing on your career, lift weights, go to the gym, take brisk walks, and most of all, Travel and gain life experiences. Date women across the globe and have a balanced perspective on things. Cause I can tell you right now, women in the West do not make good traditional housewives and often an annoyance when it comes to dating. You’re pretty much competing with a woman in the States when you can be in Thailand with a blown up Tinder account lol.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You don't actually fear dating and women. You fear being rejected because your ego is fragile.

 

[Stuff17]

You don't actually fear dating and women. You fear being rejected because your ego is fragile.

I can relate to some of what OP said as far as the change in behavior when attachment begins. There are many women who I entertain who do not bring out that side of me, but occasionally one will and the analyzing behavior kicks in.

Assuming this is about fragile ego, what does one do to become more solid/stable?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I can relate to some of what OP said as far as the change in behavior when attachment begins. There are many women who I entertain who do not bring out that side of me, but occasionally one will and the analyzing behavior kicks in.

Assuming this is about fragile ego, what does one do to become more solid/stable?

The first thing you should do is ask yourself why their opinion of you matters so much more than your own opinion of yourself does.

Until you figure out the answer to this question, you will be spinning your wheels.

The reason why this question often goes unanswered is because it forces a deep and often uncomfortable introspective look inside yourself that most people are not willing or wanting to do because they know the amount of work it will take to actually fix it and are not willing to do it.

At the end of the day, it's simply a referendum of how you actually view yourself, nothing else.

 

[Samol11]

The first thing you should do is ask yourself why their opinion of you matters so much more than your own opinion of yourself does.

Until you figure out the answer to this question, you will be spinning your wheels.

The reason why this question often goes unanswered is because it forces a deep and often uncomfortable introspective look inside yourself that most people are not willing or wanting to do because they know the amount of work it will take to actually fix it and are not willing to do it.

At the end of the day, it's simply a referendum of how you actually view yourself, nothing else.

When you asked yourself this question what did you find the answer to be, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[The Duke]

The first really hot girl I ever dated got to me pretty good. I had enough awareness to realize my insecurities and neediness if left unchecked would drive her away. The solution became clear. Did I want to let my shortcomings get the best of me or did I want to keep myself in check and win.

You grew yourself physically and mentally in other aspects of your life and saw the gains. Now grow yourself emotionally.

Being at the top and winning at life has always been enough motivation for me to change my ways.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

When you asked yourself this question what did you find the answer to be, if you don't mind me asking?

I reached a point where the fear of not becoming who I wanted to be in life was greater than the fear of rejection and staying within my comfort zone.

If you are unwilling to become comfortable with being uncomfortable, you won't ever change.

 

[Clockwerk50]

Been talking to a girl for 3 weeks that I went on a first date with this week. Day after the date I text her, she texts back then waits a few hours before texting back again. I'm having a full of meltdown at the gym because I see she unmatched me on dating app (not sure when this was), so I thought she was uninterested and double texted her. Turns out she was out with her mum. Now, I've more than likely pushed her away.

Can't help myself but analyse texting patterns, thinking why hasn't she text me when she's off work today? Is speaking to other guys? Does she still like me? etc etc.

Remember, women date up while men date down. Sadly, you need to be more self-sufficient and somewhat narcissistic in your behaviour because people can sense your self-esteem and the way you see yourself, even subconsciously.

Therefore, when you notice yourself falling into this pattern, remind yourself that the less you appear to need others, the more attractive you become. By doing this, your neediness will become easier to manage. Thoughts like “she needs me more than I need her” not only help me stabilize myself but also help me detach from situations such as yours.

 

[corrector]

Don't worry....heaven's got a plan for you.

 

[RoadKing_Rabbit]

I totally understand your views as a late bloomer, and then some. Oh boy, and then some. Cheeky as it sounds, you're what's known in western civ as a "Greenhorn." No shame in it as you appear to be self aware and ask a GOOD question. Hat's of to you.

A lot of people I talk to seem to date and "screw up" when it comes to establishing something long term. In my opinion, most of these aren't "screw ups" at all and it is more of an instance of trying to force fit a compatibility that isn't there. Keep plugging away at it and keep seeking to build your SELF. This will make you more appealing to better and better women. Only you can say for yourself what qualifies as a "better" woman. Just be sure to be honest with yourself on what you're really after and what you really need to work on.

You're going to be inundated with well meaning but crap advice to be honest. Hopefully not here, but you've likely heard, "Just be confident" "just be yourself" "Stop looking and there she'll be" "Gotta love yourself first, you know." No one bothers to tell you what they mean, even if they do have a successful love life or appear to get "all the girls." Most of them can't even tell you what they mean even if they wanted to.

Confidence can be trained like a skill. Becoming amused with rejection instead of fearful can be learned as well because you seek the experience and not the outcome. Shoot, with enough good experiences, outcomes will start to present themselves anyway. Most people try to fast forward to what they're after when they aren't ready for it.

A lot of what novices like to call "playing games", "manipulative 'tactics'" or "pickup artistry" is actually nothing more than learning what you need to know. And as crazy as it sounds, some of what MOST people insist is mean or t0xic is what will eventually help you to have the most fulfilling relationships that are healthy and loving. Have you learned what the pain on both sides of a breakup feels like? Do you know the difference between self worth/setting boundaries and being a boastful pr1ck? Are you aware that women who have slept with you will always see you differently? Do you know how a woman treats you when she knows you're seeing others? Do you know how different types of women look at the same situation? Do you know how different types of women react to all of your moods or likes and dislikes? Do you know if you like blondes or brunettes? Accent type? Apple bottoms or melons? Gotta answer those for yourself too!

Don't be intimidated by the task. Enjoy the journey. The most fun I've had on motorcycles was when I honestly started to know what the heck I was doing. Even though the rough learning and dropping my bike/burning myself on the exhaust was embarrassing and painful, it was still fun. Because I was doing something most people will never do. Same with martial arts and military service. Find your uniqueness in your own way that most men can't or choose not to follow and find subtle ways of showing it.

A friendly suggestion? Hit the search in forums and look for "Eye contact", "Conversations" "Rejection." Also look at the DJ Bible and go through the 6 week reading suggestion. A LOT of this stuff is dated, but you appear smart. Read through it and try to apply something you resonate with in the readings EACH DAY. Then ask us another question! Your questions will get better, as will you. http://www.djbible.classicalgasemissions.com/

Above all, HAVE FUN! You'll do way better if you approach it like something you enjoy instead of a danged nother' job! Imagine you're leveling up a character if you must. YOU'RE the character! Go get em'!

 

[jhonny9546]

Did I want to let my shortcomings get the best of me, or did I want to keep myself in check and win.

Did you see it as a battle to improve/have more emotional self-control to "win" and keep her in the relationship, or were you working for yourself and wouldn't have cared if she left?

Sometimes we need these challenges in life, but are we working for them, or for ourselves, really?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Remember, women date up while men date down. Sadly, you need to be more self-sufficient and somewhat narcissistic in your behaviour because people can sense your self-esteem and the way you see yourself, even subconsciously.

Therefore, when you notice yourself falling into this pattern, remind yourself that the less you appear to need others, the more attractive you become. By doing this, your neediness will become easier to manage. Thoughts like “she needs me more than I need her” not only help me stabilize myself but also help me detach from situations such as yours.

Not always true. Some women prefer a man that they know they could "do better than" looks wise because they feel they will be more loyal, less likely to cheat and will be a better provider and give them more security long-term for their family.

You see it all the time walking around where this random looking dude is with a stunner. Saw this particularly a lot in Europe where it seemed the default was a random looking dude with a good looking woman.

 

[jhonny9546]

Not always true. Some women prefer a man that they know they could "do better than" looks wise because they feel they will be more loyal, less likely to cheat and will be a better provider and give them more security long-term for their family.

They prefer, not desire.
And on the list you mention I would add one which is very important: they can be disrespectfull.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

They prefer, not desire.
And on the list you mention I would add one which is very important: they can be disrespectfull.

Any women can be disrespectful if you allow them to be. You train others how to treat you.

 

[BaronOfHair]

@Samol11 "Didn't drink until I was 18 (from the UK)..."

If you're a Scot or Northern Irishman, you've already overcome near insurmountable odds , and achieved a first in human history. Getting some broad into bed oughta be easier than relieving that 90something hobo on the stretch corner of his Pepsi can collection

 

[The Duke]

Did you see it as a battle to improve/have more emotional self-control to "win" and keep her in the relationship, or were you working for yourself and wouldn't have cared if she left?

Sometimes we need these challenges in life, but are we working for them, or for ourselves, really?

Never a battle. Always for myself. Of course I would have cared if she would have left.

 

[Clockwerk50]

Not always true. Some women prefer a man that they know they could "do better than" looks wise because they feel they will be more loyal, less likely to cheat and will be a better provider and give them more security long-term for their family.

You see it all the time walking around where this random looking dude is with a stunner. Saw this particularly a lot in Europe where it seemed the default was a random looking dude with a good looking woman.

Not sure if you’re only referring to looks, but there are other intangible external and internal variables that aren’t immediately visible and that factor into a person’s overall value in the dating market. So, when you see a random-looking guy with a very attractive woman, chances are there are qualities he has that aren’t obvious from appearance alone.

Regardless, the point I was trying to make is that women generally don’t date men they perceive as losers, ordinary, tasteless, or mediocre.

 

[Samol11]

Any women can be disrespectful if you allow them to be. You train others how to treat you.

What are some techniques you've found effective to do this?

I've improved recently, but historically I struggle asserting myself in dating/relationships.