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Damnit ... silver

Mr.Positive

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It's broken the $25 an ounce mark. I was saying buy it when it was $12 an ounce....nobody listens.

Mark my words. Silver is going to keep going up and up and up.

Why? Because we devour more silver than we mine. Simple economics. We eat more than we grow.

It is really that simple. Man can not create silver, we must mine it. Yet, we consume more than we mine...what does that say to you?

Folks will listen when silver is $100 an ounce.
 

Quiksilver

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We think alike! :)

I've already bought about $5,000 worth of silver, mostly bullion but some coins as well. Been buying since around $19.00/oz. Hard assets only, no certificates. I like to be able to touch my investments.

I might off-load some when it hits $50, but not before. Keeping 60% long-term and off-loading the rest periodically as it goes up to recoup my capital investment. Once I make back the $5,000 I've put in, I'll sit on the rest for a few years.

Want to start getting more coins, however have to get 1oz silver coins in large quantities for it to be worth it.

--

And I believe you're right about $100 an ounce. Don't know if you've been following the news about the JP Morgan litigation for silver market manipulation. I'm expecting we'll see a brief fall in silver over the next month or so as this litigation comes to fruition, and then it should take off like a balloon. Hard to say where it will end up, but I believe $100 is a conservative estimate. Could be over $200 even once it hits its true market value.

In any case, its value has increased something like 50% just this year. Would love to see a stock portfolio match that. All those suckers in the stock market are getting looted by inflation, while commodities are approaching escape velocity from our economic gravity field.

Hard to say what will happen in the next few years.

edit: Gold is the same way, but less useful for us common investors. It's too expensive for me to buy in any decent quantity. Have to buy gold with five figure investments, not a few hundred here and there. I think Gold has increased in value 400% in the last few years. Was trading at $250 awhile back, and it hit $1,375 recently. Expecting it to hit $2,500 in a couple years. Especially now since that announcement earlier today, the Fed printing at least $600 billion over the next few months.

Don't worry about the herd. They always jump into the market too late. We are already making money, and we need the yuppies to buy us out when we sell. I also have tried to tell family/friends about silver, but they do not have a clue and don't seem to want to have a clue. Don't bother, I've found it's honestly not worth telling people. Just make your money and sit back with a nice smug smile on your face... You earned it by not being a sucker.

On a different note, for people who don't really know... Because of your dollar devaluation and inflation, everything relating to paper currency, equity markets, stock markets, etc. is all becoming less and less valuable. Example: In 1960, $1 could buy a full tank of gas, a sandwich, and a massage. Today that $1 will only buy you a cheap newspaper.

Commodities are some of the very few things that are holding value. Gold especially. It rarely goes up or down in value, however in 2003 you needed $300 to buy a 1oz gold dollar. In 2010, you need $1,350 to buy that same gold dollar.

So by shifting your money to gold (out of savings account, out of stocks, out of retirement), you retain that value. Gold is only a good investment when the economy is tanking, and it is/has been for some time. This recent announcement by the Fed to print $600bn more pretty much guarantees Gold to hit +$1,500 by 2011 or end of January.

So if you have a pile of money sitting somewhere, like in a piggy bank or real bank, I would strongly encourage you to take out 10-25% of it AT LEAST, and invest it into precious metals. Honestly I would take 50% of your savings and stick 15% into gold bullion and 35% into silver bullion.

I wish I had more money to invest!

I bought the watch on my wrist for 1,300,000 Indonesian Rupiahs back in 1996. It worked out to about $150 USD at the time. If you have $30,000 in your savings account, you don't want to still only have that $30,000 in the account in ten years when it'll only be worth a cup of coffee and a bagel. So far from what we've seen over the past decade with precious metals, you'll keep the value of that $30,000 regardless of what the number is.

You don't make money in gold/silver trading, you just stop it from getting sucked away by inflation and the Feds printing press.

edit: sorry about the length.
 
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Mr.Positive

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Wow, Quiksilver, silver just blasted through the $25 mark and kept going!

Yes, we do think alike! Very alike!! Very cool there's another silver bug on here. :up:

Like you, I only own physical silver. Mostly one ounce bullion coins from various mints. I don't trust the paper trading. I've read for every one ounce of physical silver there's 100 ounces of paper silver trading out there.

From what I know about JP Morgan, they hold the biggest short position. Everytime silver goes up, they try to smack it back down by selling short. Is that what you mean about manipulation? I'll see what I can find online, but if you have a particular link, let me know.

I think silver will return eventually to it's 16-20 to 1 ratio to gold. Historically, (un-manipulated) that's what it should be trading for. It was that way for thousands of years.

We'll see, either way, it's an exciting time for metals right now!
 

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You guys should take a small fraction of your money and trade the derivatives markets. If you are correct about future price movement, then you will make 100x the profit that you would owning merely the physical metal itself.

And fwiw in regard to the financial markets, there is no such thing as manipulation, only participants with very deep pockets.
 

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Very nice. You like coins over bullion? I think -- at least for investment purposes -- that bullion is better. There seems to be less premium on it and I can buy it closer to spot price.

Personally I predict $30-35/oz by end of the year, in USD.

I wish I could say I've invested a lot, but the $5,000 is just a good chunk of my savings. It's a very safe market so pretty much the only direction for it to go is up. Unfortunately I cannot buy much right now... Too many expenses and Christmas gifts + travels coming up so its back to penny-pinching for the next few months.

Just had a peek today and its something like $25.55. Aside from the spike to $50 in the eighties, this is the highest it's ever been in relation to USD.

Reuters - JPMorgan, HSBC sued for alleged silver conspiracy

(I like how they chuck in the words 'alleged' and 'conspiracy')

NY Post - Ex-Goldman Sachs trader blows whistle

http://www.forbes.com/2010/10/28/hs...ipulation-futures.html?boxes=Homepagechannels

http://moneymorning.com/2010/11/01/...as-firms-sued-for-silver-market-manipulation/

http://news.coinupdate.com/class-ac...-manipulation-of-silver-futures-markets-0513/

I've known about it for awhile, perhaps 18 months, but this is the first time that it's become public knowledge. If JPMorgan/HSBC are barred from their criminal trading--yes taking up huge short positions--then ... Well I think your predictions have merit.
 

Bible_Belt

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Quiksilver said:
If JPMorgan/HSBC are barred from their criminal trading--yes taking up huge short positions

I have heard this same argument for years, that short selling is somehow wrong. Please don't take personal offense, but I assure you, thinking that short selling is evil is the pinnacle of ignorance. It's like thinking the world is flat.

Why is short selling not evil? Because shorts have to COVER. That means buy. Assuming that people actually trade and not just hold everything forever, which is the point of having a market, all short positions must eventually be covered. A long position is a buy and then a sell. A short position is a sell and then a buy. They are the same orders, simply reversed. There is no difference between buying to cover a short and buying to hold forever. It's still a buy. Both will make the price go up.

If you think short-term traders are evil, remember that they add liquidity to the markets, which helps everyone. Spreads narrow, transactions costs drop, and there is liquidity and standard pricing. That's truth, justice, and the American Way. Otherwise, we would all be calling each other comrade.
 

Mr.Positive

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Bible_Belt said:
I have heard this same argument for years, that short selling is somehow wrong. Please don't take personal offense, but I assure you, thinking that short selling is evil is the pinnacle of ignorance. It's like thinking the world is flat.

Why is short selling not evil? Because shorts have to COVER. That means buy. Assuming that people actually trade and not just hold everything forever, which is the point of having a market, all short positions must eventually be covered. A long position is a buy and then a sell. A short position is a sell and then a buy. They are the same orders, simply reversed. There is no difference between buying to cover a short and buying to hold forever. It's still a buy. Both will make the price go up.

If you think short-term traders are evil, remember that they add liquidity to the markets, which helps everyone. Spreads narrow, transactions costs drop, and there is liquidity and standard pricing. That's truth, justice, and the American Way. Otherwise, we would all be calling each other comrade.
Depends upon how you look at it. It's already happened in the past with silver. The Hunt brothers bought most of the silver back in the 70's cornering the market, driving the price up to $50. That's roughly $127 inflation adjusted today.

The CFTC disagrees with you on that. They smacked the Hunt brothers with a 10 mil lawsuit and banned them from trading commodities.

If JP Morgan is using their weight to control the price, that could be manipulation, not free trading.
 

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Quiksilver said:
Very nice. You like coins over bullion? I think -- at least for investment purposes -- that bullion is better. There seems to be less premium on it and I can buy it closer to spot price.
Well the coins are bullion, no numismatic value. But, the premiums are a bit higher than straight bullion. I like the fact that they are minted, but I agree, straight bullion is better for investments. I have a mix of both.

Thanks for the links. It seems the lawsuit goes back to the silver drop in Sept. 2008. I should actually thank JP Morgan, that's when I started buying! I guess I lucked out, it's just steadily gone up since then.

Like you, I am not buying much now. I do however pick up some 90% on Ebay for good deals occassionally. You can often get 90% below melt value if you are a bit patient.

You can find melt value using the calculator at this site..

http://www.coinflation.com/coin_calculators.html
 

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Currently at $27.50

--

I try to tell people to invest but it seems to be imprinted into their mind that precious metals are bad investments...

Sucks to be them, I just made 8% return in three days.

That's $450 in 3 days without lifting a finger.
 

Mr.Positive

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Quiksilver said:
Currently at $27.50

--

I try to tell people to invest but it seems to be imprinted into their mind that precious metals are bad investments...

Sucks to be them, I just made 8% return in three days.

That's $450 in 3 days without lifting a finger.
$27.63 right now, up close to a dollar today. In one week it's gone up over $3 dollars, what the heck is driving it up?

People dismiss gold for being a "barbaric relic", but have just no understanding of the industrial applications of silver. People link gold and silver together, but it's really misinformed.

If you think energy is going to boom, buy silver. If you think medical technology might boom, silver.

Quik, at your age, if you hold your physical silver and go long with it. Just what you have right now. You are going to be able to retire by the age of 40, just from your investment in physical silver. Silver will be more expensive than gold, and more rare by then.

In about 10 years or so, we'll have mined all the silver on the whole planet. The physical supply is already dwindling faster than mined, and our economy is in the pisser. Just wait until the economy takes off and silver will be in even more demand.

More and more uses for silver are sprouting up, and will continue to do so, it doesn't take a genius to figure out the basics of supply and demand.
 

Kailex

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Mr.Positive said:
$27.63 right now, up close to a dollar today. In one week it's gone up over $3 dollars, what the heck is driving it up?
QE2 and related world events.

See: Devaluation of the dollar.
 

Mr.Positive

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$28.03 silver right now! Insane!

Confidence in the dollar must be tanking I suppose...

Who knows? For me to call an investment right, must be something wrong. :D Until then, enjoy the ride silver bugs!!
 

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I do not like watching commodity prices by the day. From what I've seen, its a 2 step forward 1 step backward progression in price. Feels like a rollercoaster and ends up being more stressful than checking it out bi-monthly.

On the other hand, silver is in unfamiliar territory here and anybody who does a modicum of research into the truth behind the propaganda will know which way silver is headed in the long term.

At times I feel sorry for the USA. It's a beacon of reason and liberty (or used to be) and it is a shame to see the US dollar get devalued so far. There's globalisation for you.

When there is cheap trade between a nation like USA [good] and a nation like China [bad], only the bad can profit and only the good can lose.

Squeeze white [USA] and black [CHINA] paint onto a piece of paper. Mix the colors together [LIBERAL TRADE POLICY]. The white gets darker and the dark gets lighter at the expense of the white.

It's so simple even a kindergarten kid can understand.

If you want to protect the $$$ you are making, invest in silver. I would go with bullion and coin, however ETFs work too and at this moment are more profitable than bullion.

Investing in the stock/equity market and hold on to cash at your own risk. Every dollar you have in your bank account is becoming less and less valuable each day.

Commodities and oil stocks are the only safe havens right now.

--

If I were to sell right this second, to a local dealer or online:

Since I bought at around $19/oz, I made $1,578.00 up until a couple days ago. If I were to lock in a buyer and sell for spot today, I will have made $2, 368.00.

In the last four days -- if I were to cash out now -- I have made $790.00 USD.

Again, without lifting a finger. :up:

--

Nice to know some of us are clued in and have money where our mouth is, eh Mr. Positive? I envy you at getting in so early. Sadly I was still in school screwing around on Xbox and fvcking sophomore girls to be aware of such things.
 

Mr.Positive

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Quiksilver said:
Nice to know some of us are clued in and have money where our mouth is, eh Mr. Positive? I envy you at getting in so early. Sadly I was still in school screwing around on Xbox and fvcking sophomore girls to be aware of such things.
Why not multi-task and do both? :D

I envy you for being so smart for your age!

Silver broke $29 today. I usually don't follow it this much, but quite honestly I am getting very concerned right now. Silver is going up too much, too quickly. Something is up and it is not good. If silver gets smacked back down (like it usually does), that would be a welcome sigh of relief.
 

Kailex

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Mr.Positive said:
Why not multi-task and do both? :D

I envy you for being so smart for your age!

Silver broke $29 today. I usually don't follow it this much, but quite honestly I am getting very concerned right now. Silver is going up too much, too quickly. Something is up and it is not good. If silver gets smacked back down (like it usually does), that would be a welcome sigh of relief.
Not to sound snarky, but do you even read or see the news?

I already told you yesterday what is going on and what is up. It'd be nice to be informed on what's going on and why the price keeps going up. If it goes down, maybe mid-November, it'll be temporary, but the dollar is going through a world of pain and hurt with QE2.

I'm currently on the lookout for silver dollars and half dollars myself since they are of such easy access to me.

I'll quote it again:

QE2 and related world events.

See: Devaluation of the dollar.
 

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Kailex said:
Not to sound snarky, but do you even read or see the news?

I already told you yesterday what is going on and what is up. It'd be nice to be informed on what's going on and why the price keeps going up. If it goes down, maybe mid-November, it'll be temporary, but the dollar is going through a world of pain and hurt with QE2.

I'm currently on the lookout for silver dollars and half dollars myself since they are of such easy access to me.

I'll quote it again:
I try to follow the news best I can, and I know the dollar is taking a beating. My concern, is that silver is shooting up faster (% wise) than gold. Gold is a better indicator on the condition of the dollar than silver.

Gold is hoarded by governments for that reason. No government hoards silver. Silver is primarily an industrial metal.

Now, if the economy was booming, this takeoff would makes sense to me. But the economy is still crap, so who the hell is buying the silver? Why isn't JP Morgan shorting it right now, to smack it back down?
 

Kailex

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This is just my amateur guess, but the upward trend is going to happen til around mid-November. It might spike down a bit, but at this point, I don't see it going down substantially.

And this is me talking out of my a$$ but I know a lot of people that are panicking now and figuring out that silver is cheaper by the ounce than gold, so they are going for that.

I've been in somewhat of a bind at work, but maybe someone can shed light on G-20.

Mr Positive, this week and next week are CRUCIAL for the economy. A LOT of things are going on right now and that's why silver keeps shooting up.

Quiksilver is going to keep making money over the next few days.


EDIT: Did I see it just plow right through $29?
 

Mr.Positive

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Kailex said:
This is just my amateur guess, but the upward trend is going to happen til around mid-November. It might spike down a bit, but at this point, I don't see it going down substantially.

And this is me talking out of my a$$ but I know a lot of people that are panicking now and figuring out that silver is cheaper by the ounce than gold, so they are going for that.

I've been in somewhat of a bind at work, but maybe someone can shed light on G-20.

Mr Positive, this week and next week are CRUCIAL for the economy. A LOT of things are going on right now and that's why silver keeps shooting up.

Quiksilver is going to keep making money over the next few days.


EDIT: Did I see it just plow right through $29?


Good insight, you are probably right. Silver did plow through $29. I just flipped an 1885 morgan dollar to see if it's going to plow through $30 next!

EDIT: I just love that ringing sound of silver.
 
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