Cryptocurrency

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BlueAlpha1

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Some people believe Bitcoin and Litecoin are the Gold and Silver of the next century.

Others say these "investments" are akin to lighting your money on fire. I say tell it the individuals who invested in Bitcoin at $0.07 in 2011 who are now multi-millionaires. BTC currently trades at $760 per coin.

While extremely volatile, dangerous, and difficult to understand (a recipe for disaster), IF cryptocurrency is here to stay, surely Bitcoin will not remain the only big fish in town forever.

Is anyone enticed by any alternative coins at all?
 

parkthebus

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Can't say I understand cryptocurrency too well. I'll answer your question but I also add my own. From the research I've done, bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency that is either centralised or non-centralised. I dont have a Scooby what this means but apparently it is the key in making cryptocurrency legitimate. Now my question is, how do you actually make money from bitcoin?
 

Bible_Belt

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The US Federal Government currently considers the act of turning Bitcoin into US currency to be money laundering. They arrested the first few people a year or two ago. The Feds did the arrest and are coaching the Florida authorities in how to prosecute the guys under a state money laundering law. It's a test case for them to develop their strategy to stomp out Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. They really, really hate them.
 

Julian

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the G developing their own crypto currency probably anyway
 

parkthebus

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I'm not surprised they hate crypto currencies. Yeah great, they get around the evil corporate system but the economic systems we've got are what incentivises countries to improve they're living standards through positive sum trading rather than war. Cryptocurrencies put economic stability, and it turn national security, at risk.
 

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samspade

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The US Federal Government currently considers the act of turning Bitcoin into US currency to be money laundering. They arrested the first few people a year or two ago. The Feds did the arrest and are coaching the Florida authorities in how to prosecute the guys under a state money laundering law. It's a test case for them to develop their strategy to stomp out Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. They really, really hate them.

Of course they do. It shows a currency doesn't need a government screwing it up. A currency only needs a buyer, a seller, and an agreed upon price. There is absolutely no need for a third party (government) except so that it can make money off of it without doing anything.
 
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BlueAlpha1

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The US Federal Government currently considers the act of turning Bitcoin into US currency to be money laundering. They arrested the first few people a year or two ago. The Feds did the arrest and are coaching the Florida authorities in how to prosecute the guys under a state money laundering law. It's a test case for them to develop their strategy to stomp out Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. They really, really hate them.
I can't find any stories about this. You mean if I buy $200 in BTC on an online wallet, and cash out at $300 a week later, this is money laundering?

Curious if you can link me to any stories about this, especially in FL where I live
 

Bible_Belt

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I buy $200 in BTC on an online wallet, and cash out at $300 a week later, this is money laundering?

Maybe, but you're never going to get arrested for dollar amounts that small. What it likely will be is tax evasion, because no one reports that income, which is a large reason that the government is pissed off about cryptocurrencies.

The second link is the Florida case. Apparently, there was another arrest in New York state, which is the first link.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/men-charged-with-unlicensed-money-laundering-in-bitcoin-related-case/

https://www.rt.com/usa/bitcoin-florida-laundering-arrest-431/
 

samspade

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It's not against the law to convert Bitcoin to and from U.S. dollars. Currency exchange happens every day, and Bitcoin is traded just like dollars, yen, and pesos are. The man in that story exchanged currencies unlawfully, however- without a license. He went on to use Bitcoin to purchase drugs illegally. Bitcoin has been associated with "dark web" purchases (drugs, child porn) because it doesn't exist in hard form and is difficult to trace. That doesn't make Bitcoin itself illegal or even immoral. It's simply a currency.

The association of illegal activities with the currency used to convert them is lazy journalism and/or anti-Bitcoin seed planting by the U.S. government, but it's ridiculous. As an example, US dollars are used all over the world, including in narcotic purchases overseas. Nobody's banning the dollar. The fact is, you would still need a license (money to Uncle Sam) to broker Bitcoin exchanges, and you would still need to pay a tax on profits (more money to Uncle Sam) on your forex company. It's not getting around any of that. It is, however, free of the taxpayer cost of minting it, portable, and usable all over the world. It's also finite, so the government (or anyone) cannot pump more into the economy or d!ck around with it. I guess we'll see what happens in the long term, but in my opinion, it's a triumph of private innovation over bloated government regulation.
 

taiyuu_otoko

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Some people believe Bitcoin and Litecoin are the Gold and Silver of the next century.
Anything that is the "gold and silver" of the next century is something you can bury in your backyard and dig it up 100 years later and still get value from it.
 

Bible_Belt

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Here's a follow up to the Florida story:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-wp-blm-news-bc-bitcoin16-20150916-story.html

In the Miami case, a Miami Beach police officer and a Secret Service agent bought $1,500 of bitcoins from Espinoza and another $1,500 from Reid in separate transactions, according to arrest affidavits filed in the case.

The officers found Espinoza and Reid on the bitcoin exchange site LocalBitcoins, where Espinoza went by MichellHack and Reid used the name proy33, according to the filings. The undercover officers told both men they were using the digital currency to buy stolen credit-card numbers.

In February, Reid sold the Secret Service agent $25,000 worth of bitcoins, police said. The Miami Beach officer tried to purchase $30,000 from Espinoza, but the deal didn't go through because Espinoza was concerned the cash might be counterfeit, according to the affidavits. Espinoza's case is pending.

"Mr. Reid ignored the things the officer told him," Ron Lowy, Reid's attorney, said after the court hearing. "Had he said, 'I don't want to help you if you're going to commit a crime,' he never would have been arrested."

Reid was sentenced by Circuit Judge Diane Ward to 90 days in jail, with credit for the five weeks he has already spent behind bars, which had been part of the plea deal. He agreed to conduct 20 training seminars on bitcoin for law enforcement and financial professionals as a part of his five years of probation.
 

Steady Eddie

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Bitcoin is an alternative to the current flawed economic model. If the world powers set up a new Bretton Woods system with some tangible link to hard currencies (precious metals), it would undermine Bitcoin.

We use the U.S. dollar because it's backed by the full might of the U.S. military. Bitcoin's base of credibility is invested in the will of those people who accept it as money.
 

Bible_Belt

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http://www.whio.com/news/national/irs-seeks-names-virtual-currency-users-tax-probe/HTgkId3aOeZOAXlBqYEJsK/
IRS seeks names of virtual currency users in tax probe
San Francisco — The IRS obtained a court order Wednesday allowing it to seek the names of people who may have failed to pay taxes on virtual currency exchanged through a San Francisco company.

The order allows the agency to issue a summons on Coinbase Inc. for the names of U.S. taxpayers who have used the company's services between 2013 and 2015. Coinbase — an online platform where people can exchange virtual currency such as bitcoin — has nearly 5 million users, according to its website. It is among the world's largest exchangers of bitcoin into U.S. dollars and has partnerships with Overstock, Dell, Expedia and other companies, prosecutors said in court documents.

An IRS agent interviewed two corporations that had accounts at Coinbase and attempted to conceal bitcoin transactions as technology expenses on their tax returns, prosecutors said in a memo supporting their request for a court order.

Caroline Ciraolo, head of the Justice Department's Tax Division, said in a statement that tools such as the summons authorized by the court "send the clear message to U.S. taxpayers that whatever form of currency they use - bitcoin or traditional dollars and cents - we will work to ensure that they are fully reporting their income and paying their fair share of taxes."

Coinbase said in a statement it was concerned about its customers' legitimate privacy rights and would oppose the IRS's sweeping request in court.

Nicholas Weaver, a computer security researcher at the International Computer Science Institute in Berkeley, California, said Wednesday's order may reflect the start of a broader effort by the IRS to go after virtual currency users.
 

switch7

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You can trade bitcoin against the us dollar with many us based brokers.
 
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wifehunter

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Yes, I believe it will be better than gold.

Also, google dragonchain!

Apparently Disney is on board!
 

samspade

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I bought a little bitcoin a few months ago. It's worth in dollars is up 10% after a brief dip.
 

AAAgent

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im heavily invested in gold and silver. Although I don't own bitcoin, I do follow it and think it may be a potential solution to all this money printing by major central banks (US, China, Japan, Europe, etc.). However since no government controls bitcoin and no military force guarantees your value today, let alone tomorrow, it's hard to see it adopted on the mainstream.

Clif High's - webbot does a good job at tracking bitcoin and has predicted its resurgence to $800. It's also predicting bitcoin will hit $1k next year and Gold and silver will rise with it.

The problem with gold currently is it's being manipulated by all the banks and you don't have a real market value. They want to make gold as unenticing as possible, because if people are holding a longterm asset like precious metals, you won't be buying and selling stocks. Banks don't make money off you hoarding of cash in stable asset, they make money when your buying and selling stocks every other month, week, or day. Plus, it doesn't look good for global economies when gold shoots to the moon (makes people worried as precious metals are a hedge against instability). If gold goes up, people will get worried and start selling stock and buying gold which would cause market crashes.

I think if anything, bitcoin will be an alternative to gold, not a replacement.

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Government does have an issue with people trading cryptocurrencies for profit as BB said. They have no way to tax it and therefore will punish those who they can find.
 

Bible_Belt

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Has anyone converted a small amount of cash to bitcoin? What web site did you use? I am seeing all sorts of ways to purchase, and they all have different fees.
 
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BlueAlpha1

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Has anyone converted a small amount of cash to bitcoin? What web site did you use? I am seeing all sorts of ways to purchase, and they all have different fees.
I use Coinbase.

1% fee and secure, because they send a verification text message to the cell on file every time you log in.

They also started selling Ethereum, the #2 cryptocurrency in terms of market cap. Some people think it will eventually challenge Bitcoin as we already saw a crazy rise from $0.96 to $19.48 about a year ago. Undoubtedly some people flipped 6 figures on that. I lost $300 on it recently. It was rallying toward the $15 mark a 2nd time and I got in at $9, but it shortly cratered back down to $6.50.

Drawbacks to Coinbase - very low buying limits the first month or so. I'm talking $250 spending limit a week. Pain in the azz but a fraud prevention thing. But my limit is up to $2,500 now in just a matter of months. Other drawback is it takes 1 week for the Bitcoin to arrive, so currently no day trading but for a much smaller allotment of "available now" buying power (maybe $50 a week).
 
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