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Crime does not pay

Paradox

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I started a thread about stealing music, videos and movies a while ago.

Some posters did not believe that file sharing was against the law. File sharing results in a loss of potential income. Here is a story that proves that file sharing is against the law

http://blogs.computerworld.com/riaa_capitol_vs_thomas_rasset_1_92_m_p2p_damages
Jammie Thomas-Rasset Loses - Again
June 19, 2009
Thomas Mennecke
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Just like any accused file-sharer, Jammie Thomas was offered to settle for a mere $3,000-5,000. Insisting she was innocent of the charges, she took her chances in court. In October of 2007, she was found liable for copyright infringement and was ordered to pay $220,000 dollars in damages.

Although the monetary figure was substantial, the real victory for the music industry was the legal endorsement of their "making available" theory. By merely having files in one's shared directory, intent of copyright infringement could be proven in court.

Luckily for Thomas, that verdict was thrown out. The Judge in the first case admitted that he erroneously instructed the jury to consider whether "making available" equaled copyright infringment. The music industry's first taste of a jury victory in a P2P case was dashed.

Jammie's second trial, which ended yesterday, did not end in her favor either. In fact, the case ended much worse, as the jury found she willfully engaged in copyright infringement, and awarded the Plaintiffs, $1.92 million dollars. Evidence in the case seemed to indicate that infringment took place on her computer, but exactly who did the infringing is unknown. The defense's strategy was frustrated several times when it tried to bring in evidence which undermined MediaSentry's credibility, and when it tried to bring in her CD collection which had many of the songs she was accused of infringing. This evidence was denied by the judge.

Collecting the $1.92 million dollars will be nearly impossible, as Jammie was quoted, "Good luck trying to get it from me... it's like squeezing blood from a turnip." But the music industry has what they want - a public victory. Both Thomas and her lawyer seem intent in continuing the fight, and a final resolution to this nearly four year battle may be far from over.
 

Akuma

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whoever thought it's legal is clearly retarded.

however, illegal file sharing accounts for over 80% of all internet traffic. suuing a random soccer mom isn't going to do anything.

EDIT. the 80% only includes bittorrent downloads, and doesn't take into account direct downloads, other p2p networks and newsgroup.
 

piranha45

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I don't think anyone said it was LEGAL, i think we were arguing the morality of it, and I don't think court cases are going to change any minds in that regard.

BTW for those interested, she was prosecuted because she was UPLOADING (distributing) it to a service. Which implies that noone's been successfully prosecuted for simply downloading songs illegally onto a computer.
 

PRMoon

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Oh my god. File sharing AGAIN?! Like I said it's an easy "crime" to get away with. So one big ruling was made against a middle aged woman...wow stop the f*cking presses. I use to be and still assocate with real criminals on a daily basis and they aren't getting caught for high profile crimes with lengthy sentances.

The law is a very flimsy piece of socil control. On one hand people with lots of money can get away with things that are completely illegal for people with no money. I can't even tell you how many buisness men I know have "escorts" staying with them when they come to visit vegas. They are clearly breaking the law but since they've taken steps and precations to keep the athorities in the dark or otherwise on their side, it's no big deal. I can no more be upset about their obvious disregard for a serious crime then I can for the middle class people I know who sell MJ and have cops on the take or the rest of the populous who steals music from people who make more in one night then the majority of people make in a year period. Morality my ass, there are so many takes and perspectives for people doing what the want and need to do that the line for morality is blurred to a gray divide that is several miles wide.
 

Da Realist

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I think any judge that allowed this ruling should be kicked out immediately. There is justice and then there is just using the court system to be a bully. Guess where this falls. Keep in mind the record company has no problem putting videos on youtube where it can easily be copied, but all of sudden this woman is public enemy number one because she downloaded something. It maybe "stealing" but just like I've learned living in my city: if you leave things unlocked and in plain sight, don't complain when someone steals it.
 

Moon-Wolf

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Crime does not pay for the ones who get caught.
 

Upside

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What a major violation of the 8th amendment. She downloaded about 24 songs so each song comes to about $80,000.
 

speakeasy

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If I had to pay $80,000 for every song I illegally downloaded I'd be paying back trillions of dollars.

How the f-ck does 24 sounds amount to a payment like that? At most all you should have to pay is whatever the cost of those songs is. They are about .99 cents a download when you buy an mp3 legally. So how the f-ck are they allowed to fine her $80,000 per song?!?!
 

Truman181

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speakeasy said:
If I had to pay $80,000 for every song I illegally downloaded I'd be paying back trillions of dollars.

How the f-ck does 24 sounds amount to a payment like that? At most all you should have to pay is whatever the cost of those songs is. They are about .99 cents a download when you buy an mp3 legally. So how the f-ck are they allowed to fine her $80,000 per song?!?!
It's a ridiculous fine for a ridiculous crime. Sure it's illegal but laws change.

Paradox, get off your high horse man.
 

fertileTurtle

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If I had to pay $80,000 for every song I illegally downloaded I'd be paying back trillions of dollars.

How the f-ck does 24 sounds amount to a payment like that? At most all you should have to pay is whatever the cost of those songs is. They are about .99 cents a download when you buy an mp3 legally. So how the f-ck are they allowed to fine her $80,000 per song?!?!
To set an example to the other stupid fvcks who do this. You are stealing when you do this, btw.
 

fertileTurtle

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Da Realist said:
It maybe "stealing" but just like I've learned living in my city: if you leave things unlocked and in plain sight, don't complain when someone steals it.
Don't complain if your brains get beat in when you get caught.
 

speakeasy

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fertileTurtle said:
To set an example to the other stupid fvcks who do this. You are stealing when you do this, btw.
I don't care what you say, the punishment doesn't fit the crime here. That's like if you stole someone's car stereo, the judge giving you life in prison. Sure, you did a crime, but that doesn't mean any punishment the judge gives is justified. Please explain to me how downloading one single song can cost someone $80,000 worth of damage?? If not, then it's obvious the system was being abusive to this woman.
 

penkitten

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i think it is excessive also.
talk about making an example out of someone!
 

Phenomenal One

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i think it is excessive also.
talk about making an example out of someone!
i bet there are thousands of people who know about this story and still illegaly download music.

laws are a joke.
people use them when and if they want to, for every new law made it's not even enforced have the time.

anybody remember when they made a new law that said a person charged with a crime against a child had to register as a sex offender.
great idea expect people are almost never notified that a sex offender is living in their neighborhood until it's too late.

last year a cop was going door to door handing out a piece of paper with information about a registered sex offender in the neighborhood that lived RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO ME, guess what ?..no information on how long he was staying at the house.

laws will always be broken,
bringing the hammer down on one woman is'nt gonna stop anything.

i know a few people who've commited crimes and have any seen jail time.
 

speakeasy

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I never understood why they only do this for sex offenders in particular. Why not do the same for people that have been convicted of murder? The average murderer is back on the streets on parole within 13 years. Are they going to send out notifications to let me know that murderer is now living in the neighborhood?
 

Captain Harlock

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If they sued the average internet user for 80k for every song they'd have to wait 5 trillion years for the payment.

Then again I never expected anything smart to come from the US 'justice' system.
 

speakeasy

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I use soulseek for my file sharing. It's great if you're looking for non-mainstream music. Seems like the RIAA goes after k azaa(why the hell is the word k azaa banned???) users mostly. I wonder if they've turned their sites on soulseek?
 

OTB

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Paradox... What was the point of you posting this propoganda?

Wow Paradox....

Although I greatly respect you as a moderator of this great forum of ours, I believe that you are on the very wrong side of this issue...

Plain and simple, I would even venture so far as to say that you are greatly misguided

You just posted this piece of vile propoganda in order to prove that "crime does not pay" ? Wow dude, talk about an inappropriate title... :cuss:

I do not beleive that it would be accurate to label this activity as a crime. At least to me, this word brings up many negative connotations of rape, murder and a plethora of other brutal acts... Downloading a certain piece of music that most people probably hear on the radio airwaves for free every single day does not constitute a crime, nor does it make them a criminal!

I used the point of labeling this article as propoganda because it is nothing more htan just that... Something intended to change the minds of millions through classless acts of the most basic fear-mongering tactics :cry:

But in order to put this issue into perspective, I think we should look at the long, storied history of the record companies bullying others for their own personal greed, completely & utterly ignoring the wishes of the artists they were suppose to represent...

Here's a picture that sums up the entire issue in one brilliant cartoon:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2h72lpt&s=5
The basic message of the cartoon:

An important message from the Global Entertainment Industry...

REMEMBER WHEN...

Radio was going to destroy the record industry?

Television was going to be the end of cinema?

Home taping was killing music?

Video would be the death of Hollywood?


Well, now a new spectre haunts the corporate boardrooms of the entertainment industry...

...The INTERNET!

"This charming scene may look harmless, but if the cute little kitten they're watching on Auntie Val's video-blog is dancing to copyrighted material, this family is STEALING!

That's why we need the power to ban you from the internet - because our copyrights are worth more than your human rights."

(Words of a fat, ugly, greedy, immoral, good-for-nothing music industry douchebag)
I put the last words of the cartoon in bold font because they some up the essence of the entire debate revolving around the false idea of "copyright infringement." The sad part is, this is what the entire controversy comes down to - a battle with the greedy record companies & the false laws of the American "justice" system on one side VS basic humanity, morality, common sense, the will of the people & the love of music on the other side.

Hopefully this post has brought Paradox & fertileTurtle a bit closer to the truth on this subject matter... For all you others, keep fighting! History is on our side! (as can be seen from the political cartoon I have posted up on tinypic.com)

Till next time,
- Master Don Juan OTB
 
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