Conversational Levels Rule

[B-Lemond]

Firstly, there are no RULES! There are just GUIDELNES.


When you first meet a girl, she will either be ATTRACTED to you or she will NOT be attracted to you. Once she is ATTRACTED you transition into the "getting to know her" stage. This is the stage where you build rapport and connection with her.

You cannot get to the Rapport Building Stage without her being ATTRACTED to you. At least not the type of connection that you want to make...


First Stage - AFC:

There is none. He skips it.

First Stage - PUA/DJ:

If she is already ATTRACTED because of nonverbal cuing, social status, etc. then he builds rapport by making a CONNECTION with her, thus skipping the first stage as well.

IF she is NOT attracted to him then he builds attraction. He uses Juggler's 90-10 rule of conversation. That is that YOU provide 90% of the conversation while she provides 10%. Afterall, she will not INSTANLY open up to any stranger.


Second Stage - AFC:

The typical AFC asks (boring) rapport building questions. If she IS ATTRACTED, then this may work for him. He may develop a connection and rapport with this girl and be seen as a Mac.

If she is NOT attracted, he will be REJECTED. You CANNOT develop a connection, or rapport, with a women that is not initially ATTRACTED! At least not the connection that you want.

Regardless, he expects there to be a 50%-50% split in the conversation, from the get go.

He continues to converse using the 50-50 type conversation. This doesn't mean that success will be IMPOSSIBLE, but it also doesn't mean that it is actually g o o d.


Second Stage - PUA/DJ:

He continues the conversation by slowly decreasing what he puts into the conversation. He uses the 30-70 or 40-60 rule of Conversation. Meaning, that he gradually says less and less, while letting her say more and more.
You talk for 30%-70% while she provides 60%-70% of the conversation.

He builds rapport in this stage.


Recap:

1. Use the 90-10 rule when you are STARTING! This is used to "warm" her up.

2. Build Rapport and Connection by transitioning to the 30-70 or 40-60 rule of conversation. This is done once you already "warmed" her up to you, and you are getting to know her.


Have Fun & Stay Positive Fellas...

 

[Potbelly]

I say just workout and get a great body. This 40-60-20 rule is too complicated. If you have any kinds of social skills you will get the gal.

I have noticed with everything I have done, losing some weight has helped me most with the gals. Not ****y/funny, not lines, but looking better physically.

My 2 cents.

 

[Skilla_Staz]

Your 2 cents won't buy you much.

Just working out and getting a great body only gets you so far. It also takes a lot longer than working on your conversation skills.

My looks have stayed consistant for a few years now, and my personality and conversation skills have improved greatly. I get more action now than I did three years ago.

Why not improve EVERYTHING about you?

BTW. Good post. Short and to the point.

 

[WC2]

Good looks will only get you so far. The only chicks who will lay a guy 100% based of looks is either drunk, very insecure, or not exactly all that intelligent.
I have plenty of friends who could pass as very good looking guys, but in the girl department they can't get it done. On the other hand, I have guy friends who are not all that attractive and lay chicks like it's their job. Looks are an advantage, but they mean absolutely nothing if you can't seduce a woman.

 

[Skilla_Staz]

Correct. Using your looks at a tool should be a part of your arsenal, but the big guns will be your conversation skills and kino, empty out a few clips of eye contact and toss in the occasional push/pull grenade.

 

[B-Lemond]

Back on Track:

Conversational Levels Rule!

When in the first stage of meeting the girl you use the 90-10 rule as explained above.

However, I want to clarify that you don't talk ALL ABOUT YOURSELF.
You still want to keep an aura of mystery.

Well, what do we talk about then, B-lemond?

You tell stories. You don't want to tell her FACTS about YOU. You don't want to say "I'm Jamaican, I have 3 dogs, I love carrots, etc."

You telll her stories.
- In theses stories is where you may reveal bits of information about you.
- Tell her stories like she is a FRIEND of yours. Treat her like you ALREADY KNOW HER.
- Most Importantly: It is not how interesting the story is. It is how you tell it. You want to avoid INTERESTING STORIES because this is not about THE STORY but about YOU! An interesting story may distract her/other people in the group, thus delaying your seduction. The story should be about Human Interactions. This means that you need to express the FEELINGS of the characters in the story.


Let's not digress from the topic of this thread next time...

 

[Skilla_Staz]

Example of a boring story turned interesting. Earlier I was talking to a girl on the phone about football. Girls don't care. I was talking about how I was tired and sh*t and was messing up in the drills, boring. However, I was getting very animated during my story, tossing in some profanity, emphasizing random words, changing my tone of voice, and it had her laughing and asking questions about it.

 

[Potbelly]

yeah I'm just saying, most people here probably have decent social skills to make friends and stuff. This is the group I am targetting. I don't think you need to go extreme and do many tricks and methods. If you're a fun guy and look good, then I think you should be set. That is all. Not bashing the post good entry

 

[B-Lemond]

Example of a boring story turned interesting. Earlier I was talking to a girl on the phone about football. Girls don't care. I was talking about how I was tired and sh*t and was messing up in the drills, boring. However, I was getting very animated during my story, tossing in some profanity, emphasizing random words, changing my tone of voice, and it had her laughing and asking questions about it.

Perfect Example Staz!

Like you said, you were talking about a boring topic (football). However, you had her LAUGHING like crazy because you told her how you were feeling, what you were going through, etc...

 

[S-lemond]

b-lemond this is an acception post, really nothing more to be said! I hope everyone has take notes, and will be looking foward to own (me and b-lemonds) e-book! have a blessed day!

 

[B-Lemond]

Firstly, there are no RULES!
Second Stage - PUA/DJ:

He continues the conversation by slowly decreasing what he puts into the conversation. He uses the 30-70 or 40-60 rule of Conversation. Meaning, that he gradually says less and less, while letting her say more and more.
You talk for 30%-70% while she provides 60%-70% of the conversation.

Ooops...

30-70 & 40-60 rules mean that you talk for 30% to 40% of the conversations while she provides 70% to 60% of the conversation.

 

[Doggystyle]

Some women are very quiet and reserved, other can't stop talking if they had tongue cut off and there mouth taped shut!

There is no certian amount to talk, but in general at the initial meeting then you should talk more if she is not open to you yet

Also keep stories short at the start too, a person that doesn't know you isn't going to want a ten minute story

 

[rowing_mike]

I have never found any of this as useful. Generally, when to talk, when to ask questions, when to do anything is obvious in her body language. You don't need consciously think about these, just go with your instincts and it'll be fine.

 

[S-lemond]

Some women are very quiet and reserved, other can't stop talking if they had tongue cut off and there mouth taped shut!

There is no certian amount to talk, but in general at the initial meeting then you should talk more if she is not open to you yet

Also keep stories short at the start too, a person that doesn't know you isn't going to want a ten minute story

thats for the cliff note:rockon:

 

[B-Lemond]

This will help understand the Second Stage of Conversation. This is the 30/70 and 40/60 Rule explained:

** How to Talk to Women **

By golly, you've actually met a woman.

Maybe you're in bar.  Maybe you're at the gym or laundromat.  Maybe
she's someone you know from work.  Or maybe, even, you're actually
out on a date.

In any event, now you've got to do something scary, something
unpredictable, something with the power to launch a future romantic
relationship, or end one before it even gets started.
YOU'VE GOT TO TALK TO HER.

What do you talk about?  Should you tell her about your childhood,
your therapist, your plans for the future, the wart on your big toe?
What if you can't think of anything to say?  What if you say the
wrong thing?  And, by the way, what would be the "right" thing to
say?  Do you have a clue?

Most guys don't.  When your average gent converses with a woman,
he's basically just flailing blindly at the wind, hoping by chance
that something he says will "connect" with the woman and make her
fall for him.

Needless to say, this is not the "Don Juan" way of doing things.
You need to have a plan.  You need to know DEFINITELY what works and
what doesn't, what to talk about and what not to talk about.  You
don't want to leave her feelings to chance or to fate.  You want to
be charming and in control.

And that's what we're going to discuss right now.
Now there are many many aspects of a conversation.  This particular
article focuses on the conversational TOPICS that you should focus
on when wooing a beautiful lady.  Those topics which will almost
GUARANTEE increased interpersonal attraction.  Topics which will
leave you in complete charge of the conversation, and which will
leave you the option, IF YOU SO DESIRE, of future conversations,
dates, or an intense romantic relationship.

Are you getting excited?

Okay, so WHAT exactly do you talk about?

Well, the first thing to remember is that men frequently err by
talking TOO MUCH.  They often monopolize conversations, droning on
and on about topics that bore women to tears.  They think they're
"impressing" the women when, in reality, they're "depressing" the
women.

Just because a woman listens to you and acts interested in what
you're saying doesn't necessarily mean she really is.  She might
just be acting polite while silently wishing that the date would
hurry up and end, or that you would go away... and never come back.

So key number one is DON'T TALK SO MUCH!

Try not to monopolize the conversation and try to LISTEN to what SHE
has to say.  Remember, everyone is incredibly interested in what
they themselves have to say.  People will talk to you about
themselves for as long as you will listen.

So stop worrying about what you're going to say next.  Focus all
your attention and energy on listening to what the woman is saying
to you.  Try to visualize or "feel" what she's saying.

This does take a little effort.  It's not very hard to do, but it's
not something that men "naturally" do.  You simply have to
concentrate.

Now when listening you want to pay particular attention to any
"seeds" or free information she happens to throw your way.  Seeds
refer to subtle hints that women give that point to conversational
topics that they would like to or be willing to discuss.

An example:

Bob: You come here often?

Kim: Actually this is my first time here.  Just moved here from
Florida.

Bob: Oh.  I come here every week.  I love this band.  It's pretty
crowded tonight.

Bob is clueless.

Kim gives him plenty of free information to follow up on.  It's
almost as if she's testing him to see if he has the intelligence or
social skills to capitalize on what she says.  Bob fails.
So what would be the "right" thing to say?

Well... she mentions that this is her first time in the club and
she just moved here from Florida.  Bob could have properly "watered
the seeds" by asking: a) How does she like the club, band, etc?  b)
What brought her here from Florida?  c) How long has she been in the
area?  d) Where in Florida is she from?  e) How long was she there?
f) What's it like there?

Kim's two short sentences gave Bob tons of information to follow up
on.  Tons of conversational topics that she has indirectly indicated
that she'd like to talk about.  But Bob was too worried about
himself, too worried about the impression he was making, too worried
about what to say next to LISTEN to what she said.

Do you see the importance of listening now?

You must concentrate on what she says and block everything else out
of your mind.  If you listen you never have to worry about what to
say next because the other person is "telling" you exactly what to
say.

Kim even subtly indicated that she was attracted to Bob (or at least
not repulsed by him).  How?  She didn't blow him off.

She gave him some free information to talk to her about.  This may
have been a conscious decision on her part or it may have been a
somewhat unconscious act.  In any event, Bob didn't pick up on it
and blew his chances with her.

Keep in mind that if a woman likes you or would like to get to know
you better, she will GIVE YOU free information to follow up on.  She
will throw out some seeds for you to water.  If she's not attracted
to you, she won't give you much of anything and it will be very
difficult to maintain a decent conversation with her.  No matter how
charming you are, if she doesn't "help you out some" you'll
eventually have to admit defeat and walk away.

So be sure to listen for the topics she'd like to discuss.

Now in order to converse for maximum attraction, you need to keep
two other things in mind.  You need to tell her about yourself, and
you need to maintain a proper talk/listen ratio.

You may have heard or read somewhere that people like to talk about
themselves and that you should spend most of your time listening and
asking questions if you want others to like you.  This is true...
to a certain extent.

People DO like to talk about themselves and they DO like those who
listen, ask questions, and seem interested in what they're saying.
But...

If you're goal is to charm this lady, you've got to do more than
that.  You've got to tell her something about yourself.

 

[B-Lemond]

The rest of the article:

Specifically, you've got to "tell her" that YOU TWO ARE VERY MUCH
ALIKE.

You do this by making "me-too" statements.

That is, it is desirable to bring yourself into the conversation
when you can relate yourself to something she's talking about or
make yourself seem similar to her.

For example:

Kim: I really miss Miami.

Jim: I can imagine.  I spent two weeks in Miami last summer.  I
loved it.  Even thought about moving there myself.

Jim is smooth.

Jim didn't ask a question (this time).  He told Kim something about
himself that made him seem similar to her.  Now if Jim has also been
listening and asking questions, then he's probably doing very well
with Kim.

A good talk/listen ratio would be around 40/60 or 30/70.  That is,
you want to spend around 30 or 40 percent of the time talking, and
about 60 to 70 percent of the time listening.  And you should spend
as much of that 30 to 40 percent as possible in the "me-too zone."
Think about it this way...

Let's assume you just went on a dinner date with a lady you like
very much.  If you monopolized the conversation and spent most of
the time telling her how "wonderful" you are, you can pretty much
expect there won't be a second date.  I hope you can understand
this.

On the other hand, imagine you'd spent the entire two hours together
sitting there, listening, and asking her questions.  You probably
did much better.  She did seem happy.  She did seem to enjoy the
conversation.

But still...

After the date she's going to go home and think about the date.  And
she's going to think about you.  She's going to think about whether
she should spend more time with you or not.

The fact that you haven't said much of anything all evening is going
to be your downfall... BECAUSE SHE HAS NOTHING TO THINK ABOUT.
You haven't told her anything about yourself.  She still has no idea
if she should be interested in you or not.  She knows you don't
monopolize the conversation and you're a good listener.  And she
likes that.  But that's not enough to spark any kind of emotion in
her.

Now imagine you'd spent 60 to 70 percent of the date listening to
her (really listening and asking questions), and about 30 to 40
percent of the time telling her about yourself.  Specifically,
telling her about yourself in a way that makes the two of you seem
very similar.

This time when she goes home, sits down, grabs something to drink,
and starts reminiscing about the date (and you), she's going to have
something substantial to think about.  She's going to think what a
wonderful conversationalist you are.  You didn't monopolize the
conversation.  You didn't bore her with details of your job, your
childhood, or the health of your colon.

And because you spent a substantial amount of time pointing out how
similar the two of you are, she's going to think that you are very
SPECIAL.  (After all, you're just like her.  You must be.)

People always like others who are similar to themselves.  By being
similar to me, you essentially validate my perceptions of the world.
I will see you as clever, intelligent, charming, and likeable...
because you're like me.

(It's true that opposites do SOMETIMES attract.  But only under
certain situations.  On the other hand, similars ALMOST ALWAYS
attract.  You should always go for the similarity angle during the
first part of a relationship.  You can reveal to her your "unique"
qualities later.)

And don't worry or feel cheated because you don't get to talk about
the things you want to talk about.  If you play your cards right
during the first few conversations or dates, you'll have plenty of
time later on to bore her with all your "interesting" stories.
The first few conversations (dates) are critical and you have to
play them right.  That means listening for free info, asking
interested questions, and making "me too" statements.

It's a simple 1, 2, 3.

Or you can read the article somewhere on www.sosuave.com

 

[Distant Light]

I haven't seen so many great replies in one thread in awhile, but your over complicating the conversation rule. Only one I agree on is 90-10 rule at beginning. I prefer to lead everything so I don't really lower my amount of talking to the point where she is choosing where the conversation goes. You always want to be the one that way you can make the pick up go to where you want it to go.

Also Storytelling is really good, I love saying stories.

 

[B-Lemond]

I haven't seen so many great replies in one thread in awhile, but your over complicating the conversation rule. Only one I agree on is 90-10 rule at beginning. I prefer to lead everything so I don't really lower my amount of talking to the point where she is choosing where the conversation goes. You always want to be the one that way you can make the pick up go to where you want it to go.

Also Storytelling is really good, I love saying stories.

Using SoSuave.com's method, YOU do CHOOSE where the conversation is going. She is just giving you hints at what she is interested in. YOU are the one asking questions about it, so in a way you are the one LEADING the conversation.

As you decrease your part of the conversation, you become MYSTERIOUS. A KEY factor in a DonJuan. That and you also seem like a good listener, and so on. I won't go into that part because Allen already explained it in the quoted text.

 

[B-Lemond]

Ready for the Summary of this WHOLE THREAD?


TREAT and TALK to her as if she is ALREADY your Girlfriend!

 

[Doggystyle]

Thats a good post, the most important part is this:

"You must concentrate on what she says and block everything else out
of your mind. If you listen you never have to worry about what to
say next because the other person is "telling" you exactly what to
say."

One thing though, about questions. Only use questions as sparingly as possible, just to get something to vibe off, i.e if you ask a question and she mentions florida, don't follow up with another question about florida. Say about that time you went to florida, or how you've always wanted to go, or how you feel about florida. She should then talk, only use a question if you hit a lull in conversation just to get it flowing again.

Spirit Fingers has an post called "complete guide to vibing" which i discovered recently on his blog, a truly exellent post, i recommend every one read it for conversation skills