conversation & social skills thread
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moneyisking
Master Don Juan
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ah fvck it, i have talked to plenty daily and still can't overcome the dullness anyways. my feelings aren't suitable for game maybe. I am too cynical towards women race. i got to give it time and work on myself. we'll see after that, but for now, fvck it.
War Against Betaism
Master Don Juan
http://ebookbrowse.com/how-to-make-great-conversation-and-small-talk-pdf-d279501799
This is all I ever needed to know about conversation (read the first 30 pages, everything after that it redundant stuff you've seen in every other self help book). I've realized what separates true conversationalists from the sheep is that they generally care about what you have to say.
This is all I ever needed to know about conversation (read the first 30 pages, everything after that it redundant stuff you've seen in every other self help book). I've realized what separates true conversationalists from the sheep is that they generally care about what you have to say.
moneyisking
Master Don Juan
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dude I tried to download it and my norton blocked a virus. not cool
Desdinova
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I'm not trying to push the product, I'm trying to point you into the direction of what has helped me. I'm also a social retard. Getting out there and trying different methods of creating and maintaining conversation is the only way you're going to get better at it.moneyisking said:
Just like with everything else on this forum, there is no quick fix to a problem. You need to go out there and actually WORK to fix your social awkwardness.
Also, you're the one who initially asked us to recommend books written and published by douchbags who are trying to sell their 5hit.
War Against Betaism
Master Don Juan
You don't need to download anything, the ebook is displayed online.moneyisking said:
If you try to be interesting...you PROBABLY won't be interesting!
Most people aren't that interesting in the way PUAs think. Most people don't talk about distant travel to exotic locales or their abundance of hobbies or their many accomplishments. If anything people will probably think you're lying or bragging. People like liars and braggarts even less than they do dullards.
Be relatable. Talk about things they like to talk about. Find common ground or things you can politely and non-seriously disagree about. It's socially practical to know what other people like and be able to converse about it. Talking about going down the shore, food, pets, TV shows, sex, some politics, etc is the stuff most people want to talk about.
Most people aren't that interesting in the way PUAs think. Most people don't talk about distant travel to exotic locales or their abundance of hobbies or their many accomplishments. If anything people will probably think you're lying or bragging. People like liars and braggarts even less than they do dullards.
Be relatable. Talk about things they like to talk about. Find common ground or things you can politely and non-seriously disagree about. It's socially practical to know what other people like and be able to converse about it. Talking about going down the shore, food, pets, TV shows, sex, some politics, etc is the stuff most people want to talk about.
youngmack
Master Don Juan
Yeah fairshake you got it. Especially at a young age im 16 girls my age dont really wanna know accomplishment or travels since we havent even done much we're only 16.. Its more about being relatable and building rapport which im horible at
moneyisking
Master Don Juan
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@desdinova: you have a point, I did ask for a book, but not a PUA book; honestly I detest those. I can respect a good book written by a degree-owned psychologist or leadership guide like Dale Carnegie or Brian Tracy. Anyways, my social skills ain't to the point of abomination. I can keep the conversation going, it's just the whole thing feels damn empty and I can't feel any connection whatsoever. that's why I mentioned "it's like talking to brick wall".
@Fairshake: That's a good tactic to follow. Personally, I like to talk about the other person's achievements and accomplishments and how hard it was for them to get there; ain't nothing like it that excites them to talk about. But of course, most of the times, I don't really care about the person so no connection really. I don't know man, I just must be an aszhole.
@Fairshake: That's a good tactic to follow. Personally, I like to talk about the other person's achievements and accomplishments and how hard it was for them to get there; ain't nothing like it that excites them to talk about. But of course, most of the times, I don't really care about the person so no connection really. I don't know man, I just must be an aszhole.
youngmack
Master Don Juan
Your absolutely right bossman best advice i've gotten on here so far seriously thank youBossman90 said:
moneyisking
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@Djerk: don't get your hostility, but anyways, I do claim that video games absolutely can retard a child's social skills, but I know it is my complete fault for being a lazy fvck for not going out and learning social interactions on my own. As for your claims of embarrassments, frustrations, and rejections; I got plenty of that already in past 5 years. Among couple things I learned as I practiced game and burned/rejected and my little once-boy's mind learned is never emotionally invest in ANYBODY; I learned that through painful experience when I was 20. And now, I have extremely hard time relating and connecting with girls mostly (guys, after getting to know, I can trust) because I discard any emotion of any kind with women in general, probably because I am subconsciously refusing to get hurt again. That is the hard thing to overcome I think.
War Against Betaism
Master Don Juan
From what I gather it just seems like you don't have confidence in social situations. If you're capable of holding a conversation then there isn't anything wrong with your social skills; it's all on your mentality. I used to feel like this too, and I used to always blame it on me being awkward and having no social skills. And then I later realized that I was putting the blame on the wrong thing and it didn't allow me to see the real problem that was in front of me.
It's that it's not always my fault if a conversation goes dull or awkward. A conversation works two ways; you and the person you're talking to are both responsible for making it exciting and refreshing.
Just recently I was on a boba date with a girl and we really hit it off strong; sat there talking for nearly 2 hours. She knew how to chop it up but I was the one that pretty much got the conversation going that entire time. Then it hit a point where we had not much to talk about; you're there for 2 hours with a person you barely know, it happens. Earlier I found out she didn't watch basketball. So there was literally a 5 second silence and I let it happen, unconsciously not caring that it happened, and she looked anxious and then she blurted out "So how is the game?" If this was me before I would have been the one that reached deep for a new conversation starter and not her. Even though she didn't know anything about basketball she reached there. It was her responsible just as much as it was mine to provide for that conversation.
So yeah, don't ever feel like you're solely responsible for providing the entire conversation.
It's that it's not always my fault if a conversation goes dull or awkward. A conversation works two ways; you and the person you're talking to are both responsible for making it exciting and refreshing.
Just recently I was on a boba date with a girl and we really hit it off strong; sat there talking for nearly 2 hours. She knew how to chop it up but I was the one that pretty much got the conversation going that entire time. Then it hit a point where we had not much to talk about; you're there for 2 hours with a person you barely know, it happens. Earlier I found out she didn't watch basketball. So there was literally a 5 second silence and I let it happen, unconsciously not caring that it happened, and she looked anxious and then she blurted out "So how is the game?" If this was me before I would have been the one that reached deep for a new conversation starter and not her. Even though she didn't know anything about basketball she reached there. It was her responsible just as much as it was mine to provide for that conversation.
So yeah, don't ever feel like you're solely responsible for providing the entire conversation.
I have done a lot searching on this topic. My advice is to check out Wayne Elise at Charisma Arts. His whole essence is about conversation. One of his former instructors has charismatips.com. Both are good. Take the time to read through the articles. charismatips.com has a bunch of downloads on itunes as does Charisma Arts. Very good to listen to in my opinion.
Watch this video
1) Know yourself.
Exercises A:
List 10 emotions
Next to every emotion think of your life & stories in your life about you.
Write a headline that hooks the story. Try to have at least one story per emotion.
As soon as someone tells you something, try to figure out the emotion behind the story. People connect through emotion, not so much the surface structure of facts.
"I can relate to that, One time [insert headline]. [Tell story that relates to her emotion]." Describe with great detail & how you felt at that time. The situation that caused you to feel that particular emotion.
Exercise B:
Figure out 5 things you like to talk about and a story for each. Again create a headline about the story and then go into describing the story about your interest that you experienced.
If your having trouble then find a good book to read, no seriously, and pay attention to how the paragraphs/book structure are written. Pay attention to describing details. Women like details.
=======================================
The following are my notes of the Juggler Method. Not all, but the basics.
========================================
1) Opening
Daygame: Venue, Weather, Situation, Floppse, Focus
Nightgame: Focus, ...
Floppse - Anticipate event happening and make a comment
Focus - Know what they are thinking and ...
2) Commitment
People value things they put effort into. Commitment is effort.
-Open ended question
-Create a vacuum
a)being quite
b) not moving around
c) looking at her expectantly
d) freeze your body language
Ask for something little and you get something little. By going big it's easier to get more of an interaction to create conversation. Have more value by showing your are not going to work. Don't want to show you're making things happen, forcing the conversation. Don't take pressure off is she is not reacting right away.
Don't drive blind.
-Ask this after the vacuum.
-What is your relationship situation?
-Who you here with?
-She won't commit when your driving blind. Example, perhaps the boyfriend is nearby.
She needs to know.
-You can see the road ahead
-Steer around obstacles
-When she knows, she will feel free to escalate and go ahead.
"Always cloak everything we are doing in a frame we are actually interested in."
Get into what you are talking about. Show that anything you bring up, you want to be interested in. Always show why you are talking about something.
What do you care about?
Make statements
Question-->Statement
Question-->Statement
Question-->Statement
3) Rapport
A state that you enjoy:
-Comfort
-Trust
-Fun
If your not having fun, then you are not in rapport. What can you get from her top justify the escalation?
-Give as much as you get
-Lead by example
-Put yourself out there
So avoid talking in the God perspective. Tell about your experience.
Example:
-Do say,"I felt like [this]."
-Don't say, "I did this."
If she relates on same basis then I can justify being interested in her. She needs to hear that you are intersted because of what she puts out there.
"Value is shown by being interested in people who have done something to be interested in."
How do you handle demands? She says, "buy me a drink."
a) make a counter offer demand, "I'll buy something I think you would like and you can buy me something I may like."
b) never be upset
Enjoy Bad Reactions
Keep the interaction positive, people take risks when in a positive mood.
Don't argue with negative....Presume the opposite, she says, "Traffic Sucks!"
You say, "Oh, you must like to ride bicycles." Don't force positives, like making value assumptions for them. "That steak is good isn't it."
Presumption
- A way to introduce topics
"Whats a good book you recommend?" Presumes value that the other person has. It says, I have more value because I'm used to interacting with high value people. Presume they will fulfill the request.
Presumptions:
movie- Whats the last good movie you saw?
books- Whats a good book you recommend?
Art- What kind of art do you create?
Topics
Bring up any topic, just have a common thing from each topic.
Exercise: What do puppies, movies and Saddam Hussein have in common?
a)You and b) her
If you don't do this, then you're not having personal conversations. Once you talk about how you feel or interact with something that leads her to talk about that thing to.
Disqualification
A person in conversation makes value assumptions about people
How to respond
1) Agrees to DQ - bad, seeking approval, supplication, confirms her qualification is important
Real confidence is accepting yourself exactly as you are and not fitting into her role.
2)Disagrees - Your saying her qualification is important, You don't want this.
3) Proper Way - Is to agree always and claim to be in the bad category. Makes them more comfortable. "Yeah, you're right, sometimes I do that" Kid sometimes, serious sometimes. Disqualification lends itself to natural humor.
"Yeah, your right, my penis is the size of a field mouse" She won't really believe you of course.
4) Information Gathering
Don't trust guys can escalate, because they don't know the road ahead.
"Who you here with?"
-What are the social dynamics going on.
-Can make judgements on proper decisions.
"She has to know that you know" you will not do something stupid. This is more geared to stealing away from boyfriends and general opening, but still applicable to everything else.
5) Statement of Intent
Put yourself out there "I just realized....not only are you sexy, but [find and insert a good quality about her here]"
sexy + compliment = SOI
sexy shows your intent, not something a friend would say, don't smile or joke when saying. Nor should you stare blankly waiting for a reaction. Change the subject and talk something else. Let it simmer in her mind. Tie sexy into behavior, not looks. You want sexual tension. Go back into rapport, ie fun, if accepted. If not accepeted, don't have rapport or she just thinks your a blind driver. SOI is good way to filter women, so you're not wasting her time and you're time.
Let her know what you want to do in a way that forces her to imagine it in her head, she can accept it or reject.
a) Gets her thinking about sex with you.
b) Shows her you're bold and candid enough to take her all the way.
c) lets you know if enough attraction has been created.
6) Close
Do Statement of Intent well and closing is easy. "I like you. I want to see you again." Do phone number exchange, hand phone to her to input numbers, name. Always leave a message if you call, it's weird otherwise.
Never say, "Call me back"
=========================================
To summarize
The three escalations of conversation
Platonic-->Personal-->Sexual
1)Open by telling a story or situational comment, exchange situational stories. Ask one very open-ended question for more information if needed. Assume rapport and get nice exchange of stories going.
2)Get rapport(fun). Ask an open-ended question that can get personal. Like, "Whats you're story?"
3)Find out relationship situation, discuss yours. Discuss in general.
4)Make Statement of Intent, personal to sexual escalation happens here.
5)Close
The key is handling responses. The method is amplifying and using responses. Gain the skill to read and use a wide range of responses - thats fun, flexible and makes for real connections. Not so much about deep rapport, but wise rapport. The feeling to talk about anything.
Watch this video
1) Know yourself.
Exercises A:
List 10 emotions
Next to every emotion think of your life & stories in your life about you.
Write a headline that hooks the story. Try to have at least one story per emotion.
As soon as someone tells you something, try to figure out the emotion behind the story. People connect through emotion, not so much the surface structure of facts.
"I can relate to that, One time [insert headline]. [Tell story that relates to her emotion]." Describe with great detail & how you felt at that time. The situation that caused you to feel that particular emotion.
Exercise B:
Figure out 5 things you like to talk about and a story for each. Again create a headline about the story and then go into describing the story about your interest that you experienced.
If your having trouble then find a good book to read, no seriously, and pay attention to how the paragraphs/book structure are written. Pay attention to describing details. Women like details.
=======================================
The following are my notes of the Juggler Method. Not all, but the basics.
========================================
1) Opening
Daygame: Venue, Weather, Situation, Floppse, Focus
Nightgame: Focus, ...
Floppse - Anticipate event happening and make a comment
Focus - Know what they are thinking and ...
2) Commitment
People value things they put effort into. Commitment is effort.
-Open ended question
-Create a vacuum
a)being quite
b) not moving around
c) looking at her expectantly
d) freeze your body language
Ask for something little and you get something little. By going big it's easier to get more of an interaction to create conversation. Have more value by showing your are not going to work. Don't want to show you're making things happen, forcing the conversation. Don't take pressure off is she is not reacting right away.
Don't drive blind.
-Ask this after the vacuum.
-What is your relationship situation?
-Who you here with?
-She won't commit when your driving blind. Example, perhaps the boyfriend is nearby.
She needs to know.
-You can see the road ahead
-Steer around obstacles
-When she knows, she will feel free to escalate and go ahead.
"Always cloak everything we are doing in a frame we are actually interested in."
Get into what you are talking about. Show that anything you bring up, you want to be interested in. Always show why you are talking about something.
What do you care about?
Make statements
Question-->Statement
Question-->Statement
Question-->Statement
3) Rapport
A state that you enjoy:
-Comfort
-Trust
-Fun
If your not having fun, then you are not in rapport. What can you get from her top justify the escalation?
-Give as much as you get
-Lead by example
-Put yourself out there
So avoid talking in the God perspective. Tell about your experience.
Example:
-Do say,"I felt like [this]."
-Don't say, "I did this."
If she relates on same basis then I can justify being interested in her. She needs to hear that you are intersted because of what she puts out there.
"Value is shown by being interested in people who have done something to be interested in."
How do you handle demands? She says, "buy me a drink."
a) make a counter offer demand, "I'll buy something I think you would like and you can buy me something I may like."
b) never be upset
Enjoy Bad Reactions
Keep the interaction positive, people take risks when in a positive mood.
Don't argue with negative....Presume the opposite, she says, "Traffic Sucks!"
You say, "Oh, you must like to ride bicycles." Don't force positives, like making value assumptions for them. "That steak is good isn't it."
Presumption
- A way to introduce topics
"Whats a good book you recommend?" Presumes value that the other person has. It says, I have more value because I'm used to interacting with high value people. Presume they will fulfill the request.
Presumptions:
movie- Whats the last good movie you saw?
books- Whats a good book you recommend?
Art- What kind of art do you create?
Topics
Bring up any topic, just have a common thing from each topic.
Exercise: What do puppies, movies and Saddam Hussein have in common?
a)You and b) her
If you don't do this, then you're not having personal conversations. Once you talk about how you feel or interact with something that leads her to talk about that thing to.
Disqualification
A person in conversation makes value assumptions about people
How to respond
1) Agrees to DQ - bad, seeking approval, supplication, confirms her qualification is important
Real confidence is accepting yourself exactly as you are and not fitting into her role.
2)Disagrees - Your saying her qualification is important, You don't want this.
3) Proper Way - Is to agree always and claim to be in the bad category. Makes them more comfortable. "Yeah, you're right, sometimes I do that" Kid sometimes, serious sometimes. Disqualification lends itself to natural humor.
"Yeah, your right, my penis is the size of a field mouse" She won't really believe you of course.
4) Information Gathering
Don't trust guys can escalate, because they don't know the road ahead.
"Who you here with?"
-What are the social dynamics going on.
-Can make judgements on proper decisions.
"She has to know that you know" you will not do something stupid. This is more geared to stealing away from boyfriends and general opening, but still applicable to everything else.
5) Statement of Intent
Put yourself out there "I just realized....not only are you sexy, but [find and insert a good quality about her here]"
sexy + compliment = SOI
sexy shows your intent, not something a friend would say, don't smile or joke when saying. Nor should you stare blankly waiting for a reaction. Change the subject and talk something else. Let it simmer in her mind. Tie sexy into behavior, not looks. You want sexual tension. Go back into rapport, ie fun, if accepted. If not accepeted, don't have rapport or she just thinks your a blind driver. SOI is good way to filter women, so you're not wasting her time and you're time.
Let her know what you want to do in a way that forces her to imagine it in her head, she can accept it or reject.
a) Gets her thinking about sex with you.
b) Shows her you're bold and candid enough to take her all the way.
c) lets you know if enough attraction has been created.
6) Close
Do Statement of Intent well and closing is easy. "I like you. I want to see you again." Do phone number exchange, hand phone to her to input numbers, name. Always leave a message if you call, it's weird otherwise.
Never say, "Call me back"
=========================================
To summarize
The three escalations of conversation
Platonic-->Personal-->Sexual
1)Open by telling a story or situational comment, exchange situational stories. Ask one very open-ended question for more information if needed. Assume rapport and get nice exchange of stories going.
2)Get rapport(fun). Ask an open-ended question that can get personal. Like, "Whats you're story?"
3)Find out relationship situation, discuss yours. Discuss in general.
4)Make Statement of Intent, personal to sexual escalation happens here.
5)Close
The key is handling responses. The method is amplifying and using responses. Gain the skill to read and use a wide range of responses - thats fun, flexible and makes for real connections. Not so much about deep rapport, but wise rapport. The feeling to talk about anything.
Ihateinitiatingalot7
Senior Don Juan
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2012
- Messages
- 217
- Reaction score
- 5
i definetley would want one but unfortuneately this economy is ****ty, crappy, even entry-level service jobs, minimum-wage jobs, retail, fast-food are very picky nowadayskonmai said:
loveshogun
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2009
- Messages
- 721
- Reaction score
- 35
I've spoken with you many times about this.moneyisking said:
It's not your feelings about women that are in the way. It's your feelings about yourself.
You said straight from the beginning that because your "social skills suck" that you'll never succeed with women.
That's a cop out. The easy answer. Now you have an excuse never to change or put yourself out there.
I grew up same as you. Video games all the time, with a big brother who was smarter, stronger, and more popular than I ever thought I could be.
He tried to help me all the time, but I always ignored him. I told him, and myself, that "I can't be social like you" or that "I'm not capable of all that."
It wasn't until I got tired enough of all the self-serving emo BS that I decided - me, my decision - that enough was enough and that I was gonna go out there and try as hard as I could to get what I want, whether I thought I was capable or not.
Fast forward 9 years, and I've made changes that I could never have imagined. It hasn't been all ups, but I've at least learned that there's almost nothing about myself that I can't change for the better if I want to.
You're 23. You could be 46 and I'd still say it's never too late to change.
Just quit it with the negative attitude. Sometimes, it's okay to ignore your feelings, cause your feelings don't get results - actions do.
Stop asking for our advice - just take it and run with it.