Communicating your feelings

[oldmanofthesea]

I'm sure that title alone probably triggered a lot of people lol.

Looking for input on communication vs action. I've leaned toward action instead of communication and it has worked overall but has recently got me into a situation where the girl took over and lead our interactions, and I'm not sure that was a good thing.

Two examples below. Assume both are with a girl you've been seeing consistently for two to three months.

Example 1: You ask her if she wants to go away for the weekend and suggest a weekend a month out. She says she has no plans that weekend but wants to keep it open because all her other weekends are booked.

Option 1: Smile and say "No problem baby." then make plans with another girl or friends that weekend instead. Probably, your main girl will change her mind about wanting to hang out closer to that weekend but, oh well, you're already busy, and remind her you offered and she declined. She will hopefully learn the lesson on her own. Also back off and don't make any additional plans with her. Wait for her to make plans with you next. She shot you down with a lame justification, so you show her that you are willing to simply walk away. This is all about action. No direct communication of your feelings.

Option 2: Tell her you think her excuse is lame and communicates how unimportant spending time with you is. Tell her if that's how important you are, then you aren't really interested in proceeding. And be willing to walk if she disagrees.

I go with option 1 here.

Another example: You ask a girl to give you a ride somewhere on her way home. It's 15 minutes out of her way. The previous weekend, you spent several hours helping her with something. She says she can't do it because it's out of her way.

Option 1. You smile and say "No problem" and then ensure you stop offering to help her with things and turn down any requests she makes.

Option 2: Explain that after two months, and after the time you've spent helping her, that you think it's lame of her to refuse your request given that it's only 15 mins out of her way. Tell her you expect more from someone you have this type of relationship with and be willing to walk away if she disagrees. (Note: I don't do nice things with the expectation of getting anything in return... That's classic nice-guy behavior. But we are talking about a fifteen minute to favor that I'd ask even a casual friend for let alone someone I am dating seriously).

I went with option 1.

I have a couple issues with option 2 in both examples (communication). The first is that it can come off as controlling. In my experience, this drives women away. It seems all the women I've dated seriously expect that you'll have zero expectations. The second is that communicating that you are upset can make you look weak and needy, and I think a lot of girls will try to exploit that to their advantage, or simply lose interest in you because you look weak/needy.

Thoughts? It just seems odd to never communicate how you feel because there are likely to be expectations you have that you'll really want to get across at some points in time. Using actions only can be effective, but I'm not sure it is fair or as efficient as communication. At the same time, communication can make you look controlling, weak, and needy, which will drive a girl away.

 

[lamath]

tl:dr

Dont!!!!

 

[lamath]

tl:dr

Dont!!!!

On a serious note
Both are low IL

I think option 1 best for both.
If Interest level stay that low id next both

 

[AttackFormation]

Imo it's not always communicating directly in itself but the way you do it. If I would communicate in these examples, I would take option #3: make it a play-fight. "Oh yeah, you use me as your housewife slaving for hours and then you won't even spend 15 minutes tending to my needs!? Fvck you! You're just a man-pig abusing good women like me for yourself" said hysterically but smiling. They love that, and I think it's pretty fun too. It's like a drama catharsis, and lets you both have fun instead of turning her off with no benefit. If I couldn't make it a play-fight or couldn't be bothered, I would go with option #1 not communicating at all.

 

[sazc]

you've been seeing these females for 2-3 months?

idk about them being low IL, seems to me that, after 2-3 months, if you are getting responses like that there's really been no IL generated to speak of.

That happens when you plate people. When you have no intention of really investing "until". They see and feel that, and they plate you back. All's fair in love and war, eh?

As far as the best response, I think 2 will drive people away because 2 makes them accountable for their bvllchit, and no one likes being held accountable. But I'm a fan of being real with people, and expressing yourself, in order to determine who is really about being in a solid relationship (friend or lover) Someone who is real about knowing you is going to hear what you are saying and respond with care.

Option 1 is fine for both situations if that's the way you want to go. But I would also create distance from these ppl who dont give a chit.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

idk about them being low IL, seems to me that, after 2-3 months, if you are getting responses like that there's really been no IL generated to speak of.

Thanks for the reply. I wanted to keep it focused on communication vs action or other alternatives, so I didn't bring up much more about these specific women, but since you brought it up, I did do option 1 in both cases and then backed off and quit setting dates. She began setting dates, she initiated communication 90% of the time (if not more). Plenty of s*x. So the IL was for sure there and that's why I continued seeing them. But I also wonder if her doing that, being in the driver seat, caused her to lose attraction because it made me appear submissive. There are different opinions on who should pursue, and what the implications are.

Anyway, would rather not dive into all that since it's in the past for these two girls. Really looking for input on communicating, or acting, or some other method. I do really like @AttackFormation 's play-fight suggestion. Girls like a bit of drama/conflict, so this gives it to them, yet the playfulness of it shows you aren't weak/needy/sensitive.

 

[sazc]

Thanks for the reply. I wanted to keep it focused on communication vs action or other alternatives, so I didn't bring up much more about these specific women, but since you brought it up, I did do option 1 in both cases and then backed off and quit setting dates. She began setting dates, she initiated communication 90% of the time (if not more). Plenty of s*x. So the IL was for sure there and that's why I continued seeing them. But I also wonder if her doing that, being in the driver seat, caused her to lose attraction because it made me appear submissive. There are different opinions on who should pursue, and what the implications are.

Anyway, would rather not dive into all that since it's in the past for these two girls. Really looking for input on communicating, or acting, or some other method. I do really like @AttackFormation 's play-fight suggestion. Girls like a bit of drama/conflict, so this gives it to them, yet the playfulness of it shows you aren't weak/needy/sensitive.

Im glad that you backed off and allowed her to show you how valuable she felt you were to her.

If a man I was being intimate with wanted to plan a weekend away with me, I'd say yes and make it work.
if a friend I had been 'there' for decided to not reciprocate, I'd understand the relationship was one sided.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

Communicate feelings?

Communication of feelers is for phaggots.

Griw a pair of nuts, man up, and communicate by blowing on her face.

Some of you fellas need to get your testosterone checked.

Also getting a gay vibe. Like, you've seen one up close before. More than once lol

Also, cute wall of text. I love when guys who have never seen a vaginas before preach.

 

[sazc]

Even been in a relationship?

he cant even post a field report....

 

[resilient]

I would say to follow your own personal integrity. It’s worse to stuff down the offense and ignore. That said, pick and choose your battles wisely.

Sometimes we cry over spilled milk. There’s a subtle art in knowing when to directly confront the issue and when to ignore a slight.

If a plate doesn’t want to meet you equally at the relationship table, you can always exercise your DJ skill to walk away and find a plate that is more interested and treats you well. Your self-respect and self-esteem will remain in check.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

DEEZEDBRAH:

For a dude who preaches as hard as you do, you sure do bring up homos*xuality a lot (like, nearly every post - not sure - usually don't read them because you just copy/past same **** every time).

Classic closet-case: Dude who constantly brags about all the women's faces he blows on while saying phaggot-this and phaggot-that. Hint: Hetero dudes don't spend any time concerning themselves with gay-anything.

Ignored, so I don't have to keep reading the same lame posts over and over.

 

[Dr.Suave]

Option 1 always

 

[djdfuser]

....it's in the past for these two girls.

I hope you didn't play/fight and amass months more "amused mastery" with option 1 until they eventually ghosted when you could have taken control at the first sign of disrespect with option 2, told them they were full of sh1t, bailed and never looked back.

 

[guru1000]

Two examples below. Assume both are with a girl you've been seeing consistently for two to three months.

Example 1: You ask her if she wants to go away for the weekend and suggest a weekend a month out. She says she has no plans that weekend but wants to keep it open because all her other weekends are booked.
...
Another example: You ask a girl to give you a ride somewhere on her way home. It's 15 minutes out of her way. The previous weekend, you spent several hours helping her with something. She says she can't do it because it's out of her way.

In both examples, I'd walk away assuming she was not angry at something that I did to her.

I never encountered such scenarios and if such did occur I would find it quite odd. The reason I never fall into such circumstances is I read women (and people) quite correctly and understand the frame thoroughly. Such responses from women you've been seeing 2-3 months demonstrate that you hold a weak frame with them.

The deeper questions are (1) why is your frame weak with these women; and (2) why are you oblivious to the context insofar as prompting you to request things you felt they would have complied with.

The reasons I would walk away follow:

1) Socially, I engage in no interactions with women or anyone where I don't own the frame of our rapport. I refuse to invest into second guessing, wondering, and questioning as such mental gymnastics is poisonous to one's mental paradigms, thus temporarily stultifying your growth. The only exception I make here is following the first date, I will ask for a second date, even if I'm unsure.

2) What is the greater purpose in your life? I have great ambitions, and direct my path as a KING. If a frame is wishy-washy, this frame does not belong to a King and thus, by default, must be abandoned.

3) No happiness or long-term satisfaction can arise from a weak frame. In such a frame, you will be played around with, manipulated, disrespected and dumped.

Let's give an example of communicating feelings without compromising your King frame. A few week backs, I was texting one 24 yo in my harem whom I had seen 4-5 times. It was Wednesday and we had set a date for Friday. I conclude the texting with:

Guru: Look forward to seeing you Friday!

Her: <Silence>

Some guys would think little of this as the date had already been set and confirmed with an established rapport of sex. However, her silence is unsettling to THE frame. So I dropped her. Friday, date night, came around, and I didn't text her, and she didn't text me.

Saturday arrives:

Her: hey Mr. Guru! I was thinking about you today when I .....

Guru: Hey, let's grab a drink tomorrow. I'll pick you up at 7pm

Her: Sure, look forward!

I still test her from time to time, but this little, seemly innocuous, event was quite profound for THE frame, as it clearly set the tone for how all future interactions between us can and will play out if her full deference is lacking.

I encourage you to be willing to walk away from women who don't engage your (KING) frame fully. And these interactions that you somehow fall into ... will disappear.

 

[Ranger]

This whole thing is kinda weird.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Thanks for the always-sagely words if wisdom @guru1000

With this girl, any time she did something I didn't like, I would walk away and was prepared to not talk to her or see her again. When I say walk away, I would NOT reach out to her (via ANY means) and NOT set any more dates with her. That was my frame. If she never reached out and never set dates with me after that, then I would have never seen or talked to her again. So, I would wait for her to contact me, and I would respond (the speed of which depending on how happy I was with her recent actions), but I would not set dates. In turn, she responded by setting dates. All of them. She would make plenty of comments about how much she missed me between dates, how handsome she thinks I am, how much she wants to spend more time with me, and the s*x never slowed down or got bad. I'm not mentioning all the positive things, mostly because I'm trying to not to create a whole thread of "why did this girl lose interest" because those get messy and I was hoping to focus on whether it's better to communicate, or to simply withdraw (like I have been doing). But I do understand you are seeking to get to the bottom of the reasons for her inconsistent actions.

So based on her setting the dates, you could say I was operating in her frame. I guess everyone is going to have a different opinion on whether this was a good or bad thing. I would try to set dates (earlier on in our dating) and she always had a packed calendar so any date I would pick wouldn't work. So I quit. For three months after that, she set all the dates. Some people will say having a girl chase you like that is good. If she's chasing, she has provable high interest through her actions. Others will say you are playing in a weak frame and everything is on her terms, and this will kill attraction. I don't know the answer. The only other way I can imagine to have kept things totally in my frame is to set a date and if she refuses, back off (like I did), then when she came back and asked me on a date, I would refuse and then counter with a date offer of my own. Keeping up that cycle until she realizes that she isn't going to see me unless it's 100% on my terms. I just don't think I agree with that approach. It seems controlling and would be a deal-breaker if someone did that to me.

 

[guru1000]

So, I would wait for her to contact me, and I would respond (the speed of which depending on how happy I was with her recent actions), but I would not set dates. In turn, she responded by setting dates. All of them

I would try to set dates (earlier on in our dating) and she always had a packed calendar so any date I would pick wouldn't work.

... So based on her setting the dates, you could say I was operating in her frame.

^^ This.

You complied with her schedule ... ALWAYS. This is the message and where THE frame collapsed.

I'm going to share a text exchange I had with a girl a few months back.

History: Her last 7-year relation ended because her bf was "not masculine enough" and she had to take the reins. It was going to be our fifth date, and sex already twice:

Saturday:

Her: Had fun last night. Let's go to the barbecue place on Sunday brunch if you are up for it

Guru: Hey, had fun too. Tomorrow doesn't work but we could go to the Brazilian spot Friday night if that works

Her: Friday, I'm going to my friend's house on the beach. I'll be back on Sunday, so we can do this next Sunday if you like

No real red flags yet other than she prompted a date request, which errs slightly toward the masculine. Took notice but nothing significant to act upon.

Friday

Her: Are we on for later?

Guru: We are, ill pick you up at 8pm. Want to go to that Brazilian spot?

I ask in place of "Let's go" to test compliance given her past.

Her: I thought something in the evening, maybe the barbecue place I told you about in Brooklyn ...around 4:30- 5 pm. Is that ok for you?

Yellow flag given her past and she attempts to change the time and place.

Guru: I can free up at 8pm

Her: I believe the place closes early. So let's keep 8 and we can go to a sushi place. Do you like sushi?

Red flag given her past and she attempts to change the venue without acknowledging my venue suggestion of the Brazilian place.

Guru: Had sushi earlier. You don't like Brazilian?

Now I'm testing her.

Her: I love it. I just thinks its a little heavy to eat at night because it's alot of meat. Do you like Buddakkan. Have you been?

Guru: I was there last Friday. How about seafood, fish particularly?

I'm about to walk, so I'm testing hard to be sure of my decision.

Her: Oh wow lol
Her: And Zuma?
Her: don't tell me you have been there on Thursday
Her: hahaha

She's out.

Guru: I'd prefer a lady who lets the man lead ... take care

Her: It's ok, so you can choose it, I trust you. I just gave you suggestions
Her: At 8? Or do you need more time

<Silence>

Her: Are you not coming just because of this. Oh wow, I didn't know you care so much about this insignificant little detail. You must have some serious emotional and self confidence problems

LOL. Given her past relation of dominating her bf and this text exchange of her attempting to dominate the date venue, I opted to check out. Although this exchange set THE frame, the problem with her last bf not being masculine enough and her attempt to usurp the reins on such a simple date idea turned me off completely. My interest collapsed.

Similarly, your girl never deferred to your schedule and set the dates only in accordance with her time while concomitantly and totally discounting you and your time. This is where I believe THE frame shattered.

It seems controlling and would be a deal-breaker if someone did that to me.

It would be a deal breaker if a female did that to you, as that is masculine behavior.

Owning THE frame is within the masculine and requires your dominance. If she doesn't defer to you, she loses you.

 

[R.U.G.]

Seems she's interested in you, but you're not very high. You need to be at least a 6 or 7 on her interest level to fvck. You need to be 8+ for her to fall head over heels for you. This is generally done by pulling back and working on yourself, your goals, and your dreams in life. You offering to take her on a vacation and she says she wants to keep her options open is not a good sign. If I received that from a woman I'm seeing, I wouldn't be taking her to McDonald's; let alone a vacation after that. She'd be regulated to sex only and has to work her way up to going out with me. But hey, that's me. I've learned you need to give zero fvcks and zero tolerance to women these days. You need to always be on your purpose in life and she's just orbiting around you. SHE is not your main, second, third or forth thing in your life. You need to be okay with the fact that a woman will come and go in your life within a blink of an eye. You just really have to make yourself believe that you really don't care.

The sad fact is... The one who cares the least has the most to gain and the most power in the relationship. You are giving too much in both scenarios. Pull back. Offer nothing but sex, a cooked meal and/or Netflix. She has to earn you, you don't have to earn her. Switch the tables my friend.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Owning THE frame is within the masculine and requires your dominance. If she doesn't defer to you, she loses you.

Thanks Guru. Very much like the girl in your example, this girl was very dominant. She is an elite athlete and very competitive - it's just part of her personality. I guess to your point, I need to be heavier-handed when dealing with that type of girl. It will feel odd and d*ckish doing what needs to be done (since I normally don't have to resort to that) but I'll give it a shot when I run into this kind of girl in the future. Thanks for your advice.

@R.U.G. Everything you outline is exactly how it played out. Once she turned down the weekend thing, I didn't offer to take her anywhere again. The only difference is that I didn't relegate her to sex-only. Sex was always part of every interaction we would have but it included hanging out as well, but only when SHE asked to hang out, because I was doing my own thing and going my own way due to her mixed-messages.

As for caring too much or not having power, aside from being more domineering and inflexible on scheduling dates, I don't think there was much else I could do. How much power are you really giving someone when you literally don't initiate text, calls, or dates EVER. If she didn't reach out to me, she would have never heard from me again. If she didn't ask to see me, she would have never seen me again. I think that's pretty pulled-back and care-free. But to @guru1000 's point, my mistake was likely allowing her to set the dates instead of giving her a "here is what I'm offering, take it or leave it" line. It seems odd, but I'll experiment with it next time I date a really strong-willed girl. I seem to be drawn to that type because they are also ambitious, smart, confident, and not boring, so I'm sure I'll have the opportunity to try it out soon.

 

[Murk]

I would go communication on both. I call people out on the spot if something doesn’t sit right, yeah it might be considered weak by you guys on here, but I’m a busy guy and don’t have time for grudges or wondering. I lay it all out, would prob say my piece and walk away from both.