Chick withholding sex- need some perspective

[STR8UP]

So I have been talking to the 22 yr old lately who is thinking about moving into town.

She's the one who just broke up with her LDR "fiancee".

Anyway, I have known that she wants a relationship for a long time, and although I know that we would probably never work out long term, I have entertained the possibility of getting together with her.

She's coming back into town next weekend and I invited her to stay with me. She accepted the invite but said it was on one condition- no sex.

Here's the problem. Since she started talking about moving here and there was talk about "us", I started to get the feeling that this day would come. I would try to start playful conversations with her, and she was always careful not to let it progress.

See, we have had sex in the past. So it isn't like going into a normal situation where I would be a little more forgiving of a chick who for whatever reason doesn't give it up immediately.

Since we have had sex several times before, this is a HUUUUUGE red flag.

"I just want to take things slow, get to know each other emotionally. Sex clouds things"

"I don't want to make the same mistakes I've made in the past"

"I talked to my friend about this and it's all so clear"

"I just got out of a relationship and it was more serious than you realize. I need some time."

It might not have been a wise move on my part, but I called her on the BS as soon as she said "no sex". And what did that do? Of course, it made me look like an a$$hole. Like the only thing I want is sex.

I basically told her that I don't play these kinds of games, that ESPECIALLY when two people have had sex in the past, that it's a bad sign when a woman uses sex in this way.

Of course she has no clue on a conscious level what it is she is actually doing, but I know perfectly well. You can't use words to reason with a chick on something like this. And I probably should have just let her stay over and dealt with resistance as it becomes a problem, but I had been getting this bad feeling for awhile and I couldn't help it....I had to lay it out right then and there.

So our convo (IM) basically ended with me telling her that she needs to get things in order and then come talk to me. She got pissed and signed off.

I can understand that she doesn't want to feel like a cheap ho, but playing along with something like this for me just isn't an option. It was either confront it head on right now, or it was going to come up next weekend or whenever. I haven't had sex in awhile, but I'm not about to go into a situation like this with a chick holding sex over my head. It goes against what I stand for as a man.

The problem is, now I look like an a$$hole. About the only thing I can do is sit back and wait. And the worst part about it is that as of tonite, it has officially turned into a "negotiation". I don't see how I can put this back on track. The only thing that could turn this around is if she escalates it physically. To tell you the truth, I'm so turned off right now over the whole thought of how this is playing out I don't even know if she can patch this back up.

Anyway, it sucks cause I like her as a person and at minimum I hate to burn any bridges. I wish it didn't have to come down to this, but unfortunately (right or wrong) every bell and whistle is blaring full blast, and I just can't bring myself to play that game, even on the off chance that her only motivation behind this is so she feels "legit"

I dunno. What do you think?

 

[dice]

you're overreacting. Think back to your DJ teachings. You need to BELIEVE, not act, that having sex with you is HER pleasure. "Indifference is your best friend." When she brought up no sex you say "um, okay.." like it was the farthest thing from your mind to begin with.

Then, when she is sleeping over, thats when you make your move, but from the way you handled this situation I get the impression that you wouldn't even know how to escalate things between you two when she was sleeping over even though she said "no sex" and after she rejected you you'd probably get all AFC on her and kick her out. Here is what I would do though..

1) forget tonight ever happened
2) Be indifferent to if you **** her or not
3) When she is in person, it's a whole different ball game. Be a DJ in her presence and go for it.
4) If she rejects you, be indifferent

people diss me for my recent post in this forum because I'm only 23 but it seems like you older guys are more desperate so u act on impulse more easily..

 

[edger]

This retard of a girl is most likely talking sh*t when she tells you "She wants a relationship with you". Come on man, really think about it for a sec. She should be wanting to have sex with you right now. She's making up excuses not to because she isn't into you. Listen to her excuses. They are pathetically lame. Any chick who's into you and wants a relationship with you, is not going to hold back sex. She's f*cking with your head. Basic common sense.

If I'm not right about what I said, then she's a mental case. Simple as that.

 

[STR8UP]

people diss me for my recent post in this forum because I'm only 23 but it seems like you older guys are more desperate so u act on impulse more easily..

Uh, no, I just refuse to waste my time playing games like this, and I felt the "no sex" vibe coming from her for awhile now and it doesn't sit well with me. I've been around for awhile and I know to trust my gut and in this case it was SCREAMING.

BTW.....if I thought there was any chance that this was just token resistance I never would have made an issue of it, but I am relatively sure based upon the way she was acting that it's quite a bit more than that. I seriously doubt this is something that could be overcome with a little whispering in her ear and fondling her t!ts.

 

[edger]

If I were you I'd have been so far gone the sec. she started witholding sex.

 

[STR8UP]

If I'm not right about what I said, then she's a mental case. Simple as that.

Or she's barely 22 and hasn't quite gotten the hang of when and where it's appropriate to try to use the pu$$y power.....

- I know she's into me
- I know I COULD have sex with her
- She wants a RELATIONSHIP but she's going about it the wrong way
- There's a good chance that she is still having sex with her ex "fiancee" who is in town for a week which would also explain some of this

 

[iqqi]

So this chick who you supposedly care about, and have been intimate with before, tells you in no uncertain terms she doesn't want sex, BEFORE she even gets in your bed, and she even goes on to explains herself:

"I just want to take things slow, get to know each other emotionally. Sex clouds things"

"I don't want to make the same mistakes I've made in the past"

"I talked to my friend about this and it's all so clear"

"I just got out of a relationship and it was more serious than you realize. I need some time."

And in turn you:

but I called her on the BS as soon as she said "no sex".

And you wonder why:

And what did that do? Of course, it made me look like an a$$hole. Like the only thing I want is sex.

Some of you take things WAY to seriously here, not every word out of a chicks mouth is lies and games. And yes, maybe you can change her mind, but it sounded to me like she was certainly not bullsh!tting you when she said no sex. And I doubt you'd be changing her mind now.

 

[RedPill]

I dunno. What do you think?

This is an absolute waste of your time.

A) This young broad does not add any significant value to your life whatsoever.
B) No sex.
C) Drama.

You've pandered to her immaturity in the hopes that you'd get some effortless ass from it, and in doing so have painted yourself into a corner. Now, she's expecting an LTR with you, when obviously this isn't your intent.

There isn't a smooth landing here STR8. If I were you I would opt out of this situation as quickly as possible - like ripping a band-aid off. Just do it and get it over with.

You did the right thing by confronting her about her games. What I suggest you do from here on out is minimize contact with this girl, if not sever ties with her altogether. You can be cordial if and when you do see her, but it's time to phase her out.

Dude, life's too short to deal with this crap.

 

[MacAvoy]

Question 1

What are you looking for from this women? Given the fact that she just got out of a LTR, she's damaged goods for a while and do you really want to be rebound guy?

However I think one of two things are happening, she either has LOW IL like another poster said and merely isn't interested in you or she actually really likes you and wants a relationship.

Either way, I think sex is not an option, I would cut her out of your life until she is ready to have fun with you without any rules such as NO SEX.

I agree with you on not burning bridges so I would explain to her how you feel. I would tell her that you are interested in her but you are a sexual being and you can't be just friends with someone when your sexually attracted to them. Tell her that you would like to explore to see if there is more with her in the future and that you understand that she needs time after her relationship and to have her call you when she's moved on from him.

 

[iqqi]

you're overreacting. Think back to your DJ teachings. You need to BELIEVE, not act, that having sex with you is HER pleasure. "Indifference is your best friend." When she brought up no sex you say "um, okay.." like it was the farthest thing from your mind to begin with.

Then, when she is sleeping over, thats when you make your move, but from the way you handled this situation I get the impression that you wouldn't even know how to escalate things between you two when she was sleeping over even though she said "no sex" and after she rejected you you'd probably get all AFC on her and kick her out. Here is what I would do though..

1) forget tonight ever happened
2) Be indifferent to if you **** her or not
3) When she is in person, it's a whole different ball game. Be a DJ in her presence and go for it.
4) If she rejects you, be indifferent

Smart boy, this Dice kid. I mean, you could maybe PRETEND to care even, about her feelings, and then maybe you'd get further. Of course, since you'd be pretending... you'd be the one playing games.

people diss me for my recent post in this forum because I'm only 23 but it seems like you older guys are more desperate so u act on impulse more easily..

The kid called it.

 

[wjh]

I understand the resentment you have. It strikes at your pride.

But the attention she's giving you is all you need, that spark, to turn off that "no sex" condition. I would take a girl in this situation and simply lead her to the bedroom, metaphorically and literally. Coming from this perspective, her resistance is just an obstacle to something she wants anyway. Who knows why she has this condition, maybe she really doesn't want to feel like a cheap ho, but it's not meant to be argued with.

Edit: I just read what Dice said, and it's pretty accurate.

 

[iqqi]

Question 1

What are you looking for from this women? Given the fact that she just got out of a LTR, she's damaged goods for a while and do you really want to be rebound guy?

However I think one of two things are happening, she either has LOW IL like another poster said and merely isn't interested in you or she actually really likes you and wants a relationship.

Either way, I think sex is not an option, I would cut her out of your life until she is ready to have fun with you without any rules such as NO SEX.

I agree with you on not burning bridges so I would explain to her how you feel. I would tell her that you are interested in her but you are a sexual being and you can't be just friends with someone when your sexually attracted to them. Tell her that you would like to explore to see if there is more with her in the future and that you understand that she needs time after her relationship and to have her call you when she's moved on from him.

This is smart advice.

 

[guru1000]

Yo Str8up,

Why were you NEGOTIATING sex with a 22 year old?

Sex is ACTION, not negotiation.

Sex is a chemical reaction, not barter. Why would a 22 year old girl COVERTLY say "Ok, I will F*CK you". You cannot create a hostage situation like that unless an emotional investment is in place.

 

[STR8UP]

TYou've pandered to her immaturity in the hopes that you'd get some effortless ass from it, and in doing so have painted yourself into a corner.

That's exactly what I've done. And it sucks.

You did the right thing by confronting her about her games. What I suggest you do from here on out is minimize contact with this girl, if not sever ties with her altogether. You can be cordial if and when you do see her, but it's time to phase her out.

It's a relief to hear someone who knows his sh!t tell me I did the right thing.

I mean, I KNOW I did because this was building over the past few weeks. My gut was telling me that the sh!t was gonna hit the fan at some point.

To be honest......it's probably a good thing cause despite my disclaimers that there were no guarantees with us, I know how badly she wants a relationship and I could have kept it up for awhile but there was never gonna be a light at the end of the tunnel.

So be it.

 

[STR8UP]

I agree with you on not burning bridges so I would explain to her how you feel.

That's the thing with me. I spent the first 30 years of my life burning bridges for no reason, and nowadays it kills me to do it. And like I said, she's someone who I get along with VERY well, so it makes this that much worse.

I would tell her that you are interested in her but you are a sexual being and you can't be just friends with someone when your sexually attracted to them. Tell her that you would like to explore to see if there is more with her in the future and that you understand that she needs time after her relationship and to have her call you when she's moved on from him.

That's kind of what I did but it probably came out the wrong way since this has been eating at me due to the fact that I knew this was coming.

 

[STR8UP]

Yo Str8up,

Why were you NEGOTIATING sex with a 22 year old?

I refuse to negotiate sex, that's why I called her out on it the second she made it official.

 

[Cesare Cardinali]

Never try to change a girls mind. The old PUA saying is "change her mood, not her mind". And in my experience the best way to deal with something like this is to by pass her whole intellectual argument in the first place by using seduction.

Of course the woman does not want to look like a sl*t, so she is putting down these rules "for the record". You need to cooly take down her statements and note them for the file, so that later on (after you have had sex) you both can agree that she is not a sl*t. "It just happened" "We didn't plan this"....etc.

So a girl says "I want to take things slowly and get to know each other emotionally". Your response should be "yes, in fact, I think that since we've already had sex in the past, there is really no rush for us, and I'd love to get to connect with you on a deeper level as well".

You could even push it further and say "we'll take it slowly for the next few months". At this point she'll probably wonder where your other sources of sex are coming from and get attracted even more.

The point is, no girl wants to be prodded and *convinced* to have sex, especially on MSN. There needs to be some magic into it. And if the girl is reluctant to do it now, then you need to calibrate that and realize that you have not done a good enough job to make her feel comfortable. First you get comfort, then you get rapport, and then you'll get attraction, followed by sex. You can't use logic to jump straight to attraction.

Cesare Cardinali

 

[guru1000]

I refuse to negotiate sex, that's why I called her out on it the second she made it official.

You made an ULTIMATUM, "OVERTLY tell me you WILL have sex or I bounce."

Of course, she will take the latter.

By her saying "NO SEX", she was covertly saying "SEX". That is why she mentioned it.

Best response "SEX, of course not."

 

[Bible_Belt]

Yeah, you messed up. You should have just laughed off the 'no sex' comment, like it is funny that she thinks she can actually resist. I have been told 'no sex' and then ended up having it that night more times than I can remember. Words mean nothing. Plus, at sales jobs, I have been told that an average customer will say 'no' seven times before they say 'yes.' The result is a sale, if the salesperson does not listen to those first 'no' answers. I'm not saying to rape the girl, but her saying 'no sex' has absolutely no bearing on your actual chances of having sex with her. Let her say whatever silly words she wants; they mean nothing.

Now all you can do is sit back and wait for her to contact you again. Don't apologize, but you could at least tell her that you don't make any demands of her for staying with you. Which is true, tempting is more fun than demanding.

 

[KontrollerX]

You did the right thing Str8up.

You are too far along for these bullsh!t high school antics so you told her straight up (lol just like your username) what the score was.

Sure you may of come off as an assh0le or whatever but what else could you really of done at the point she drops a bomb like that?

Suddenly switch the script and say "You know what actually I was just kidding" or "You know what actually I'm not sure if I'm ready for that"?

Whatever excuse you would've used would of been blamed squarely on the no sex clause she blurted out anyway and you would of been thought an assh0le no matter what you did.

And if you just kept your mouth shut and let her stay at your place you would of been inviting sympdom if you tried to escalate and she turned you away.

That would've made you feel like a fvckin idiot and p!ssed you off for ever letting her stay.

Sure in that scenario you wouldn't of come across like an assh0le but in the back of your mind you would wonder if she was thinking you were a total push over pvssy to let her get away with that sh!t.

The way I see it you told her up front and like a man what was what and saved yourself a lot of wasted time.

If it wasn't for her stupid clause you wouldn't even be in the position of looking like an assh0le over all of this and if she rejected your advances at your place with no stupid "no sex" clause hanging over the both of your heads you wouldn't feel great about it but you certainly wouldn't be painted into being an assh0le like this scenario paints you as it is one of those horrid unwinnable scenarios.