Can You Handle The (Red Pill) Truth?!?

[meldiamond]

"The less (financially) dependent on a man a woman is, the more she seeks out the best looking man she can find."

This quote is a nice definition of hypergamy from the video below. While I don't agree with every point made in the video, there is certainly some truth to the analysis in broad outline.

My question is the following--if you ARE NOT in the top tier in looks and therefore can't attract beautiful women consistently, why would you want to spread the message of "red pill theory" or whatever it's called? Because it does seem as if most people posting on this forum are on board with this theory yet I suspect few fit the profile of a highly attractive man.

Second, if you don't fit the definition of a highly attractive male, how does this alter your own behavior especially when it come to dating strategies? After all, good looks are genetic. You can alter other aspects of your appearance: clothing, grooming, maybe muscularity by going to the gym, but there are limits.

 

[LaughyDuck]

"The less (financially) dependent on a man a woman is, the more she seeks out the best looking man she can find."

This quote is a nice definition of hypergamy from the video below. While I don't agree with every point made in the video, there is certainly some truth to the analysis in broad outline.

My question is the following--if you ARE NOT in the top tier in looks and therefore can't attract beautiful women consistently, why would you want to spread the message of "red pill theory" or whatever it's called? Because it does seem as if most people posting on this forum are on board with this theory yet I suspect few fit the profile of a highly attractive man.

Second, if you don't fit the definition of a highly attractive male, how does this alter your own behavior especially when it come to dating strategies? After all, good looks are genetic. You can alter other aspects of your appearance: clothing, grooming, maybe muscularity by going to the gym, but there are limits.

I did not watch the video to be honest. But looks do matter to women just to an extend. Women who put very high emphasis on the mans look mostly have nothing to over except their looks. + They are mostly very masculine in their nature. I can assure you that top tier women will not just look at a mans appearance. While it's true that you will attract very hot women if you have a good body and are handsome that does not mean you can't repel her with a boring or needy personality.

EDIT: I justed watched the video to the half then it became too ridiculous. I know this show. It's just a shallow entertainment for shallow people.
The guy who was described as looking like a lesbian could certainly become fit and with better clothes/pose he would certainly attract some decent looking women. Being a good looking guy is not that awesome as it is hyped to be. In fact being good-looking will come with some drawbacks. For instance women will expect you to have a super tight game.

 

[nicksaiz65]

These videos are always depressing

 

[Marek]

My question is the following--if you ARE NOT in the top tier in looks and therefore can't attract beautiful women consistently, why would you want to spread the message of "red pill theory" or whatever it's called?

I did not get the impression that red pill theory asks for good looks. It is much more about self-sufficency.

How you attract women depends on a number of factors. Your looks are an important one, but so are your demeanour, your speech, etc.

After all, good looks are genetic. You can alter other aspects of your appearance: clothing, grooming, maybe muscularity by going to the gym, but there are limits.

There certainly are. And if you're fugly, you're very unlikely to attract a self-sufficient top model.

But your list is missing a key point of altering your appearance: Confidence.

 

[jaymbrs]

lol. Can you?

Didn't you run last time I tried talking to you like a man with adult respect? Yet you keep on with the black pill incel crap.



One of us has had women tattooing his initials on them. Had plates dedicating artworks to him. So on so forth. Has posted proof of game. Has field-tested stuff of the better minds and gave field reports. Has winged/offered to wing even people from here in his local area. Etc etc etc.

So my question is the following, what pragmatism have you to offer? Anything at all?



Didn't watch. But at this point, you really are better off just not reading the forum. Never read so much nonsense in all my days.

There was a time when you could literally log in each morning and read extremely high quality material that you would have in mind for your set later that night, weekend or whatever. Now it's just incel stuff that has no bearing inset at all.

And if it has no bearing inset, then it really is completely worthless.

Agreed. A lot of it is internet junkies who want to "fit in" somewhere by offering advice on stuff they have no idea about or have never done themselves. I weed out so much garbage on here it's insane.

 

[meldiamond]

The question doesn't make sense because at no point does red pill only apply to the most beautiful women.

You can date women in your own tier and it is going to come down to personality and other intangibles.

Whoever made the video claims that MOST men are forced to date down. For example, a female 6 may have access to a male 8 (may or may not be true in every case), so a male 6 is forced to date down to a 4. The male 4's in turn are pushed out of the 4 pool and are forced further down the smv pole, or don't date at all since now we're dealing with the true dregs.

 

[meldiamond]

This is not ever remotely true unless you only use online dating.

On the conservative side, the overwhelming majority of guys I know in LTR's or married have dated down or at the same level.

I definitely know some guys who have married up. There are a significant number. I'd say it breaks down like this:

1/4 men date up
1/4 men date at their level
1/2 of men date/marry down

 

[nicksaiz65]

The way these videos put it, they act like there’s no way to improve your looks outside of genetics. I disagree wholeheartedly

 

[old_skoolr]

There was a time when you could literally log in each morning and read extremely high quality material that you would have in mind for your set later that night, weekend or whatever. Now it's just incel stuff that has no bearing inset at all.

100%

Loved the success stories and every dude had a little tip in certain situation, stuff was dynamite.

Now it's just sad.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

My question is the following--if you ARE NOT in the top tier in looks and therefore can't attract beautiful women consistently,

Your question rejects the possibility of NOT being in top tier looks yet still able to pull beautiful women.

Second, if you don't fit the definition of a highly attractive male, how does this alter your own behavior especially when it come to dating strategies? After all, good looks are genetic. You can alter other aspects of your appearance: clothing, grooming, maybe muscularity by going to the gym, but there are limits.

This question also presupposes that the only thing that matters are looks.

Your entire position ASSUMES that there is nothing beyond looks that women are attracted to.

My belief is that the above idea, of overemphasizing physical appearance, is an ego-protective idea that absolves you from having to work on your GAME, which is comprised of social skills, communication skills, and other NON-PHYSICAL "alpha" skills.

The reason that belief (if you aren't hot you can't pull hot women) is so compelling is because working on inner game is difficult, time consuming and extremely emotionally difficult, to say the least.

Essentially, you have two choices.

1) Suck it up and work on inner game issues, essentially as a lifelong project.

2) Swallow the EASY PILL and assume that since looks are the MAIN component of attraction ladies, you throw in the towel. Join MGTOW, and / or spend half your watching youtube videos the PROVE it's NOT YOUR FAULT (got the wrong genetics) you can't get laid with the girls you want.

 

[Roober]

Why is it every 2-3 months, some dude shows up, clamoring to understand far more than all of SS and push their agenda?

Creating thread and thread after thread. What they fail to realize is that the message is sound, but the delivery method and inability to integrate other beliefs into their own actually hinders the delivery of their message. And then the ego steps in... and they get banned...

 

[BeExcellent]

"The less (financially) dependent on a man a woman is, the more she seeks out the best looking man she can find."

This quote is a nice definition of hypergamy from the video below. While I don't agree with every point made in the video, there is certainly some truth to the analysis in broad outline.

My question is the following--if you ARE NOT in the top tier in looks and therefore can't attract beautiful women consistently, why would you want to spread the message of "red pill theory" or whatever it's called? Because it does seem as if most people posting on this forum are on board with this theory yet I suspect few fit the profile of a highly attractive man.

Second, if you don't fit the definition of a highly attractive male, how does this alter your own behavior especially when it come to dating strategies? After all, good looks are genetic. You can alter other aspects of your appearance: clothing, grooming, maybe muscularity by going to the gym, but there are limits.

Advice from the (still hot) old lady:

Hypergamy simply put is a woman who seeks to date above her current social class. The term comes from the caste system in India where it can be, historically speaking, quite scandalous to date outside ones born social strata.

Obviously beauty is genetic. Genetic expression doesn't follow social constructs...and men of all social strata seek great beauty. The scandal (for the man) arises when the beautiful woman is not aware of the social customs and expectations within the higher caste. The man risks a beautiful embarrassment in his social environs. The woman in such a case is a socially ambitious woman who is using her beauty to attain her ambition.

Any other definition isn't hypergamy. It simply isn't.

Women who are financially self sufficient have greater freedom to select men they are genuinely attracted to...irrespective of resource provisioning. Some of these women actually will date down from a social perspective to have a physical specimen they fancy. That certainly is not hypergamy.

There are plenty of men seeking sugar mamas out there too. It is a similar thing to women who seek status & resources. Plenty of men rely on their physical presentation to accomplish the same thing.

It is opportunistic no matter which gender is looking to upgrade.

When you are a physically attractive individual with financial means you learn to manage the opportunists out there because they WILL seek you out. If you don't you are at risk of falling prey to them. You learn to filter for partners at least at your own level, and how to suss out the posers.

From there you choose according to your personal criteria from those who show interest. Nothing about that is hypergamous.

For myself personally I find that my own financial status reduces enormously the consideration of a man's means in the equation. He has to be in the same ballpark as me financially at a minimum (I'm not going to be a sugar mama or support a mooch)...I've turned down millionaires and prestigious professionals based on lack of attraction or for unacceptable behavior (even if I find them attractive.)

A very attractive surgeon has been contacting me relentlessly recently. His wife of 25+ years died suddenly. He doesn't know what to do with the word "No". He's tall, very handsome, women think he's "dreamy"...and he's more financially well off than my boyfriend...but I love my boyfriend & find him sexy as hell. My man is classic tall, dark & handsome...and masculine & a leader who is financially independent. I have no desire to branch swing to the hot doctor. In fact I'd prefer to introduce him to a couple of great beautiful women I know. When I suggest this he says he's not ready to date. Whatever. I've shown the boyfriend the texts (which I summarily delete each time he reaches out.)

It does keep my man on point since he knows other high value men desire me...So that's a benefit. But hypergamy? Not even close.

 

[meldiamond]

One of the most obvious examples of hypergamy in the states is San Francisco, home of the 49ers. I'm not talking about the football team which plays it's "home" games in santa clara.

I'm talking about the women. The 4's who think they are 9's. Silicon Valley is so thoroughly saturated with men, brown men in particular, that the selling value of women, white women but probably also asian women to a degree, is massively inflated.

The market value of older women, 40+ is also ridiculously overvalued. There are tons of rich older men 50+. A 40 something divorcee might actually be a catch for them especially if the cougar has paid any attention at all to her appearance. Lots and lots of 20/30's males pursue cougars as well for a fling and a unique experience. Or, out of desperation.

I suspect that immigration, especially of males in very large numbers, particularly to specific cities with booming tech economies, drastically alters the balance of power in dating, tilting odds in favor of women.

 

[BeExcellent]

The 4's who think they are 9's. Silicon Valley is so thoroughly saturated with men, brown men in particular, that the selling value of women, white women but probably also asian women to a degree, is massively inflated.

The market value of older women, 40+ is also ridiculously overvalued. There are tons of rich older men 50+. A 40 something divorcee might actually be a catch for them especially if the cougar has paid any attention at all to her appearance.

This is simply supply and demand at work. Nothing more, nothing less. The market is efficient. In Miami or San Diego those 4's wouldn't be able to compete. In the older age groups there are other considerations. Does a hot 50 year old man really want a 30 year old woman who has a 2 year old and a 5 year old when his own kids are already grown? If the answer is hell no, well then the appeal of an attractive woman in her 40s or 50s who also has done with child rearing makes sense.

I know an attractive man who is in his early 50s, retired & financially independent who is a grandfather. His grand kids are 3 and 5 years old. He has been dating a woman in her mid 20s for going on 5 years now. Guess what his never married girlfriend wants? Her clock is ticking. She wants children. She wants him to sire those children. He doesn't want to start over again with babies in his 50s when he's already a grandfather. These desires are mutually exclusive. So either they will break up (she is very beautiful and sweet) or someone is going to have to sacrifice their desire for the other.

My money is on him ending up a dad again in order to keep her. Perhaps I'm wrong. We'll see.

But those kinds of choices are going to crop up, and they have their disadvantages.

I know another man, an attractive multimillionaire, who is in his early 50s who is dating a woman who turns 60 next month. I don't think she is particularly attractive for a number of reasons (of course I'm not dating her so it doesn't matter - and I was not interested in this particular man myself), but he wants "someone to grow old with".

Many people experience a shift in their priorities as they get older. Those things factor into mate selection on an individual level.

 

[Mike32ct]

My belief is that the above idea, of overemphasizing physical appearance, is an ego-protective idea that absolves you from having to work on your GAME, which is comprised of social skills, communication skills, and other NON-PHYSICAL "alpha" skills.

The reason that belief (if you aren't hot you can't pull hot women) is so compelling is because working on inner game is difficult, time consuming and extremely emotionally difficult, to say the least.

Essentially, you have two choices.

1) Suck it up and work on inner game issues, essentially as a lifelong project.

2) Swallow the EASY PILL and assume that since looks are the MAIN component of attraction ladies, you throw in the towel. Join MGTOW, and / or spend half your watching youtube videos the PROVE it's NOT YOUR FAULT (got the wrong genetics) you can't get laid with the girls you want.

Very interesting points. While I personally believe in blackpill, I’m not anti-game. I just question how effective game is (both inner and outer).

Honest question....

How does game actually matter when women often reject men in a matter of seconds, at first glance?

 

[meldiamond]

I think a lot of so-called redpill theorists are actually blackpill theorists without knowing it. Redpill information/truth is liberating; blackpill rhetoric is debilitating.

The youtube video I posted is closer to being a blackpill than a redpill. What is the difference? Blackpills are factual statements, but consists exclusively of bad news: black pills consist of news about the negative, terrible and horrible things going on in the world.

For example, a redpill is that feminism (the lie of gender equality) is a false rhetoric and ideology. Exposing it for what it is is liberating since it allows men to acknowledge our true power and potential: men are more intelligent than women, we have built civilizations, we are warriors who defend our people. All great achievements are the works of men.

Blackpills focus on the terrible situation we find ourselves as a result of so many being brainwashed by feminist rhetoric: ie women are hypergamous, incels becoming more numerous, divorce rates are skyrocketing, divorce law is ridiculously biased in favor of women etc. All of this is true, but focusing only the negative aspects of dating and sexual relationships can become depressing and even debilitating.

In the video cited, yes, it is true that looks play an enormous factor in the dating game, but you have to look at context: focusing on looks/money/status is useful as a corrective (in opposition to pua rhetoric, where looks supposedly don't matter at all), but they are certainly not the only factors that determine success in the dating world.

Looks, Money, Status, confidence, and game ALL matter. Strong social skills, confidence, and at least some understanding of logistics are important also. All of the bluepill stuff probably does matter to some degree: love, romance, candy, flowers, buying girls drinks can actually help you to obtain a girlfriend. This is the reality of the situation as well.

It's understanding the bigger picture which encompasses all aspects of reality which gives you a realistic understanding of what to do and what traps to avoid given the brainwashing that is taking place in the world today. The red pill, black pill and blue pill ALL contain some element of truth: the error is in insisting that one aspect of the truth is truth in totality.

 

[meldiamond]

A black pill is simply bad news. It's not inaccurate, it's just some bit of news about how terrible things actually are.

The blue pill refers to the false, delusional understanding of the world which is nonetheless comfortable and unthreatening, since it is all you've ever known or been taught.

The red pill refers to a true understanding of how things actually are, and the way things work. The truth can be harsh and unsettling, emerging from false consciousness always is to some degree. But ultimately it is liberating since you can see who your true enemies are. If you are willing and able to stomach the truth. Of course, most people can't. They prefer living a lie since they can avoid punishment, ostracization and simply the inconvenience of dealing with reality.

TV, drugs, the internet, sportsball, etc are all widely used sedatives. Along with opioids, prescription or otherwise, marijuana, ecstasy, alcohol and so on.

 

[meldiamond]

The question is, who created feminism? Who spreads this message? What are the penalties associated with questioning this rhetoric? Are there similarities between the rhetoric of gender equality and racial equality? Or the rhetoric of class equality?

Do you believe all people, all races, both genders, all social and economic classes are equal in ability?

What's unsettling and I can understand why people would want to avoid this question, is the possibility that the races, genders and classes in fact are not equal.

The problem is that when you ask ONE question, people might start to ask other questions as well. Opening up the pandora's box is liable to totally overturn the cart of political correctness.

 

[meldiamond]

Very interesting points. While I personally believe in blackpill, I’m not anti-game. I just question how effective game is (both inner and outer).

Honest question....

How does game actually matter when women often reject men in a matter of seconds, at first glance?

I'm being sincere with you when I say that I have absolutely no idea how someone can be a member for 11 years and ask something like that.

It's a rhetorical question, and clearly, there is some degree of truth in it.

For example, there's a guy in my social circle. He's a really cool guy. I like him a lot. But he resents the f#ck out of me. It got so bad he stopped looking me in the eye for a couple of months, maybe longer.

The first time I met him, I stole a girl off of him immediately. I made no effort whatsoever. I just happened to be standing in his vicinity while he was talking to a girl. Just a few seconds after I showed up, and they had apparently been talking a good long while, she completely ignored him as if he didn't exist and she began chatting me up. I hooked up with this girl multiple times. And I'm sure he knows it. Not that night. Not even the second time I saw her. But the third time, she grabbed me to dance with her and we spent the rest of the night together, well into the morning, with me f#cking the sh#t out of her.

It probably took him, say six months, before he was willing to talk to me again or even look me in the eye. He was so embarrassed and humiliated that I could peel a hot girl off of him in just a few seconds with no effort whatsoever.

He's got a great personality. He's well educated. Good job. Dresses pretty well. He goes to the gym regularly and is not fat. However, he is very short. Now, the thing is, like I said, he's got everything going for him. He's super polite and cool. But he's really really short. And women don't like that. Not in a lover. In a friend, yes, no problem.

I've seen him a ton of times, talking to a bunch of women. I've never seen him get a number. I don't think he's been on a date in the entire time that I've known him. And it sucks. Because I'd like to see him succeed. he's a cool guy. And what may be even more frustrating for him is that women don't blow him out. They are nice to him, willing to talk to him often for a long period of time.

But he doesn't try to get numbers, he doesn't try to get dates, he doesn't try anything that would put him out there for possible rejection. Because he understands (most likely) what his dating market value is. Its low.

That sucks. That's a black pill. He does and has done just about everything right. But his height puts him at a serious disadvantage. And the thing is, he's a red blooded male. He goes after good looking women. Most guys in his situation, they'd just rather get laid. Fat, ugly, old, several or all of the above, doesn't matter. They want to get laid. And they do.

This guy is holding out for a hottie, and this means he isn't getting laid. It sucks, but it's reality for guys like him. It's a black pill, for sure.

And no, he doesn't want to be my wingman. I can't think of any guy who wants to be my wing man. Because they know they'll lose every single girl to me. But the guy has heart. He wants to outcompete me, even though it's impossible.

It's almost cruel: just about every woman in our social circle likes him, is friendly to him and will talk to him for hours. But they don't want to date him or have sex with him. He's just grinding away, hoping one of them will give him an opening, drop some hint that they'll go out with him and it never happens.

I'm sure he has friends outside of our relatively small group; but whatever connections he has, it's not turning into dates or sex.

Anyway, I don't mean to bash the guy, I'm saying that there is some truth in the notion that in some situations superior game or even money and status may get you absolutely nowhere because of LOOKS.