Can we actually be ourselves and enjoy dating or is it always a game?

[A1234567]

I don't know about everyone else but when I think about a relationship, I'd like to be able to relax and be myself. I don't want to try to be super masculine just because it attracts women... After reading a lot of advice from here and various things online, I get this feeling that I can't just be myself to get a woman and keep her. I feel like I have to be in a constant competition with what women "really" want. If everything is just a big game then it turns me off to the idea of a relationship. Does anyone feel this way or have any insight to being yourself to attract and keep a woman?

 

[Evan]

I think you are on the right track about being able to relax about it all but there's a paradox in it that your missing. It's not that you do it to get women, it's to have high standards for yourself. You want to be comfortable being uncomfortable. Wanting to get to another level for yourself not for her.

It's not about being super masculine for a women because that is what betas do. She doesn't want you to do it because she wants you to do it. She wants you to do it because you want to do it. Actually doing the things that you want to do. The giant paradox in game is that men try hard to be alphas because that is what gets them pvssy. It's no coincidence that they find themselves getting flaked on, cheated on, or nexted because it's not a genuine act of self desire. It's an act of trying to get validation, sex because he doesn't feel good about himself, and because he wants others to like who he is.

It's funny that when you come to a place where you genuinely like who you are and have high standards for your life that women become a part of it naturally. Effortlessly. The only thing that men need to remember from that point is they don't fall a slave to her sexuality and affection. That is where you see many men **** up. No matter how "alpha" they have made themselves to be. They are still doing what they do so that she will like him. Not from a genuine place of desire. Not doing the things you genuinely want to do. To accept.

You have to genuinely make productivity and growth a larger priority than sex and affection from women. And the paradox from that is that a women still wants to be desired and to be have sex with a guy who she wants to have sex with. And if your a man who holds himself accountable and responsible for your desires sex is a part of that. It's just got nothing to do with doing something to make a women desire you. You cannot negotiate genuine desire. Men forget this and need it drilled into their head. It's far better to pursue your own desires than to do something to make others desire you.

 

[The_411]

I don't know about everyone else but when I think about a relationship, I'd like to be able to relax and be myself. I don't want to try to be super masculine just because it attracts women... After reading a lot of advice from here and varies things online, I get this feeling that I can't just be myself to get a woman and keep her. I feel like I have to be in a constant competition with what women "really" want. If everything is just a big game then it turns me off to the idea of a relationship. Does anyone feel this way or have any insight to being yourself to attract and keep a woman?

You do have to be yourself but the point is that unless you are a natural there are certain aspects that you need to enhance to make you a better version of yourself.

As far as relaxing goes that's the point. The key is to get to a point where things aren't stressful but rather exciting fun and enjoyable.

No one said you have to be super masculine to be good with women, you just need to avoid behaviors that turn them off.

It's not a small process. We're all coming from various levels and have to work on certain areas more than others, but working on those areas isn't about women but rather our own development as men.

 

[Zarky]

Hate to get all zen on what appears to be a straightforward OP question, but....

What is "yourself?" Could "yourself" be nothing more than what others trained you to feel comfortable being when you were a young child? Is there no way you can consciously redefine "yourself" as someone who feels at home playing the dating game?

That is, what's better about the familiar "yourself" mask than the unfamiliar "player" mask that the dating world necessitates?

 

[gravityeyelids]

It's okay to relax a little bit and be comfortable....after all, a women will be able to tell if you're just putting on a show and running game or if you're being genuine with her. However, complacency is never a good thing.

Honestly, it is a constant battle for the most part. The only time i've found when you can really relax is when you get to a point where your game is rock solid and your core confidence is constantly high and you're pulling plenty of girls and have an abundance mentality. At that point you are going to project an attractive aura pretty much no matter what. It's almost like you can do no wrong. But those moments are not frequent.

 

[Alvafe]

I don't know about everyone else but when I think about a relationship, I'd like to be able to relax and be myself. I don't want to try to be super masculine just because it attracts women... After reading a lot of advice from here and varies things online, I get this feeling that I can't just be myself to get a woman and keep her. I feel like I have to be in a constant competition with what women "really" want. If everything is just a big game then it turns me off to the idea of a relationship. Does anyone feel this way or have any insight to being yourself to attract and keep a woman?

you being yourself? define that, you will use a persona based on need/local/what you consider you should, the way you are in your work place is diferent from your home and with your friends, watching a game in a stadium or in a bar, each place you will behave diferent so tell me is really hard to keep a persona you can entice a woman?

take note then over time when your learn things you change, could be small changes overtime with in the end makes it huge, so overtime what you are trying to be can be you as long its benefical to you.

now tell me what is hard or with you don't like? things you learned as kid? or as teenager? feels of guilty for playing with woman?

 

[Krueg]

You can relax after your Married, until then you gotta keep being your Don Juan self. Soon as you go from being the MAN to relaxing and falling back into your Old ways (Nice Guy) she will get bored of you and leave you!

 

[A1234567]

You can relax after your Married, until then you gotta keep being your Don Juan self. Soon as you go from being the MAN to relaxing and falling back into your Old ways (Nice Guy) she will get bored of you and leave you!

Exactly my point. I'm not a kiss ass nice guy where I drool over the girl and do whatever she wants but I am polite. I like being polite. I don't feel like myself if I act like an uninterested douche bag. After my last relationship I've approached three girls and I've been shot down by all of them. I've shown them my interest but I haven't been obsessive with them. I was casual and myself. After each rejection I felt like I had to be something I'm not, though.

I just feel like women don't like a lot of guys just for who they are. It's really frustrating. If I keep getting shot down for just being laid back and myself then that just tells me I need to try harder to be something I'm not. The point is to connect with someone in a genuine way. At least I thought that was the point until I started realizing it's a huge game.

 

[Zarky]

After my last relationship I've approached three girls and I've been shot down by all of them.

Bahahha try 300 more and then post about being "shot down."

3 girls :crackup:

 

[logicallefty]

I think by the time you marry a woman you can relax to some extent but I don't think you can ever completely turn the knob to 0 or like Krueg said your wife will get bored and cheat on you and/or leave you.

Why are 2/3 of all divorces petitioned by women? I have no evidence of this but would bet my first born:

- Husband went 100% AFC

- Wife got bored

- Wife found new d|ck (s)

- Wife twisted facts and told the world that it was all husband's fault and divorced him

- Wife took 1/2 his hard earned assets, collected her child support, and lived the "American Woman's Dream" with his hard earned money

My ex "bigamist" h0r who I thought was my wife, no joke, after she and I split she told a mutual friend we had: "He (lefty) let me get away with everything. And I just kept pushing it further to see how much more the stupid b@stard would let me get away with"

NEVER AGAIN

 

[A1234567]

I think by the time you marry a woman you can relax to some extent but I don't think you can ever completely turn the knob to 0 or like Krueg said your wife will get bored and cheat on you and/or leave you.

Why are 2/3 of all divorces petitioned by women? I have no evidence of this but would bet my first born:

- Husband went 100% AFC

- Wife got bored

- Wife found new d|ck (s)

- Wife twisted facts and told the world that it was all husband's fault and divorced him

- Wife took 1/2 his hard earned assets, collected her child support, and lived the "American Woman's Dream" with his hard earned money

My ex "bigamist" h0r who I thought was my wife, no joke, after she and I split she told a mutual friend we had: "He (lefty) let me get away with everything. And I just kept pushing it further to see how much more the stupid b@stard would let me get away with"

NEVER AGAIN

And hearing that makes me wonder what's the point of trying to find love if the odds are against you anyway. My uncle has (had) a lot of money and his wife of 20 years recently changed the locks of his own house, divorced him, and gets child support and whatever else from him. I just don't get why us men have to work so hard at keeping a woman when it seems like they don't have to do ****. I know more guys who are willing to make a relationship work than girls.

 

[Evan]

That's the thing. It shouldn't be work. Men need to raise their standards for what they accept and don't accept from a women. Men need to stop trying to hard to find love and need to start spending more time on themselves than anything. Making their lives into something they love and have expectations about who they allow into their lives. Most men will let anybody into it who will give them the attention and affection they desire. It's so much more than that.

People always say that divorced people didn't do the work. Why should it be work? People should be with people who support others to be who they already are and not try to fix or change them. Women like that may be rare but you can find them. It's mostly about how you carry yourself as a man and how you treat women. And it's also about where you look for them. I will tell you they are mostly not at the bar. They are not at parties. They are mostly in places where you have mutual interests. Also the younger and less experienced they are the better.

 

[zinc4]

I think you are on the right track about being able to relax about it all but there's a paradox in it that your missing. It's not that you do it to get women, it's to have high standards for yourself. You want to be comfortable being uncomfortable. Wanting to get to another level for yourself not for her.

It's not about being super masculine for a women because that is what betas do. She doesn't want you to do it because she wants you to do it. She wants you to do it because you want to do it. Actually doing the things that you want to do. The giant paradox in game is that men try hard to be alphas because that is what gets them pvssy. It's no coincidence that they find themselves getting flaked on, cheated on, or nexted because it's not a genuine act of self desire. It's an act of trying to get validation, sex because he doesn't feel good about himself, and because he wants others to like who he is.

It's funny that when you come to a place where you genuinely like who you are and have high standards for your life that women become a part of it naturally. Effortlessly. The only thing that men need to remember from that point is they don't fall a slave to her sexuality and affection. That is where you see many men **** up. No matter how "alpha" they have made themselves to be. They are still doing what they do so that she will like him. Not from a genuine place of desire. Not doing the things you genuinely want to do. To accept.

You have to genuinely make productivity and growth a larger priority than sex and affection from women. And the paradox from that is that a women still wants to be desired and to be have sex with a guy who she wants to have sex with. And if your a man who holds himself accountable and responsible for your desires sex is a part of that. It's just got nothing to do with doing something to make a women desire you. You cannot negotiate genuine desire. Men forget this and need it drilled into their head. It's far better to pursue your own desires than to do something to make others desire you.

This ...don't be afraid to act like you want to act...you want to tell her she's beautiful, tell her...you want to hold her while you fall asleep do it...on the same note, you want to tell her to stop being so annoying, do it...you want to sleep alone, tell her to go home... just do what you want, no fear......once again, it all boils down to confidence... if you ate truly confident anything u do will look good to her abd others.

 

[Tictac]

Most women want to get to the 'be yourself' place as well.

The trouble is, what makes a good relationship does not make for initial attraction, if a relationship is what you want.

So you do the 'attraction stuff' and, if the woman holds up and meets your standards, you may make it to more of the be yourself stuff, again if a relationship is what you want.

But in the 'be yourself' stage, you still have to manage attraction well enough to keep it all working. It's not easy. But it can be fun. It is part of you. Try to fake either attraction or your own comfort and you're dead.

Balancing attraction and your own comfort has to be a balance.

So get comfortable with that balancing act or get ready to cycle through plates as initial attraction levels off.

 

[A1234567]

That's the thing. It shouldn't be work. Men need to raise their standards for what they accept and don't accept from a women. Men need to stop trying to hard to find love and need to start spending more time on themselves than anything. Making their lives into something they love and have expectations about who they allow into their lives. Most men will let anybody into it who will give them the attention and affection they desire. It's so much more than that.

People always say that divorced people didn't do the work. Why should it be work? People should be with people who support others to be who they already are and not try to fix or change them. Women like that may be rare but you can find them. It's mostly about how you carry yourself as a man and how you treat women. And it's also about where you look for them. I will tell you they are mostly not at the bar. They are not at parties. They are mostly in places where you have mutual interests. Also the younger and less experienced they are the better.

This is a great way of looking at it. "Most men will let anybody into it who will give them the attention and affection they desire. It's so much more than that."
I've noticed myself lowering my standards because I've let rejection make me feel like less than what I am. I don't think relationships should be a never ending race to "get" someone. I think the whole point is we want a partnership. I think friendship should be part of a relationship but it seems like you can't really be a girls friend and boyfriend.

 

[skinnyguy]

Excellent question. The dating scene has changed greatly just in the last 10 years, largely due to social media. With hypergamous women all over FB and IG, it is easy for a guy to become jaded.

The paradox is this: you better be really alpha or else you won't get a quality girl. The problem is, if you're acting, you won't be able to keep her, because she will see through you sooner or later.

Betas are going to suffer even more now due to social media and destruction of traditional relationships. Since many girls want to have FWB they will only engage in sexual intercourse with the really alpha guys who are 10% of the population yet fvcking 90% of the women out there.

OP is exactly right in that men are spending copious amounts of time and energy just trying to get the girl and keep her around. It should not be this way.

Evan says "Men need to raise their standards for what they accept and don't accept from a women." The problem is that most women now days are hors and liars. Good luck finding a decent woman on a regular basis.

Dating the USA particularly sucks unless you're very good looking. yes, game might get you a lay here and there but the amount of work that you put in is not worth the result.

At the end of the day, what will make you happy (I think) is being able to just be single. If I can be happy this way, I'll be good. Being desperate is a killer because it leads to self harm.

 

[hudpes]

I was thinking exactly the same and I found the idea of always having to keep watch and make micro adjustments and react properly to everything that she does.. repulsive. Then it dawned on me, if you have to do this then you either aren't ready, mature enough for a serious relationship, you picked the wrong kind of woman, or you think the woman you're dating is way out of your league and you're insecure.

Sometimes you have to let life shape you and then you grow, organically. It helps to know which direction to go and for that, this site is a goldmine. But then lessons should be learned and "forgotten", not in your conscious mind anymore. For example, you don't open doors, drive you two in the car, do the hard work around the house, lift things and open jars for her, hold the umbrella for her because the fact that you have to make her feel feminine is constantly on your mind and you're trying not to cross the border of being servile, it just becomes something automatic, like breathing. Same applies to other things, being needy, jealous, controlling. When mature, you are not needy, you desire her, you are not jealous, you give her absolute freedom, you are not controlling, you lead. Big differences here. And you learn those along the way, you can learn the rules first, apply them in your life practically and eventually they become second nature.

The only thing that you do have to do is once in a while make a reality check. Zoom out as far as you can and observe the situation you're in, are you on the right path? Have you gone to extremes in some areas? Does she appear happy, bored, is she hoping for something to finally happen? Has everything become too much of a routine? Sex every Saturday at 11 p.m. after a movie? Been dating for too long and haven't asked her to marry you? Call it a whoopsie and rearrange what needs rearranging, then let it go again.

Picture it like pruning trees. You don't do that every single day, you're not watching the branches grow with scissors in your hand, but once a year you have to do it, or else the tree will grow wild and won't bear much fruit.

 

[Evan]

Excellent question. The dating scene has changed greatly just in the last 10 years, largely due to social media. With hypergamous women all over FB and IG, it is easy for a guy to become jaded.

The paradox is this: you better be really alpha or else you won't get a quality girl. The problem is, if you're acting, you won't be able to keep her, because she will see through you sooner or later.

Betas are going to suffer even more now due to social media and destruction of traditional relationships. Since many girls want to have FWB they will only engage in sexual intercourse with the really alpha guys who are 10% of the population yet fvcking 90% of the women out there.

OP is exactly right in that men are spending copious amounts of time and energy just trying to get the girl and keep her around. It should not be this way.

Evan says "Men need to raise their standards for what they accept and don't accept from a women." The problem is that most women now days are hors and liars. Good luck finding a decent woman on a regular basis.

Dating the USA particularly sucks unless you're very good looking. yes, game might get you a lay here and there but the amount of work that you put in is not worth the result.

At the end of the day, what will make you happy (I think) is being able to just be single. If I can be happy this way, I'll be good. Being desperate is a killer because it leads to self harm.

I pretty much agree with what you're saying. However just because a decent woman is difficult to find that doesn't mean men should give up on finding one. I personally think a man should be putting more of his time and effort into himself than what he does on women or anything else that doesn't help you in life. A man should be investing his time in himself. Not for women but for himself. However it's in our biology to want to **** as many women as possible. A man needs to have standards with who he is willing to be monogamous with if he wants that at some point.

 

[A1234567]

I pretty much agree with what you're saying. However just because a decent woman is difficult to find that doesn't mean men should give up on finding one. I personally think a man should be putting more of his time and effort into himself than what he does on women or anything else that doesn't help you in life. A man should be investing his time in himself. Not for women but for himself. However it's in our biology to want to **** as many women as possible. A man needs to have standards with who he is willing to be monogamous with if he wants that at some point.

Yeah I think you're right. I think it's easy for a guy like me with only a handful of female experiences to constantly question why I don't have women wanting me instead of just not caring. This thought makes me focus less on my life and more on my insecurities. I still feel like being "myself" isn't going to attract a lot of women, though. The only difference I see in myself from before I started reading advice and now is that I question myself a lot more.

So basically, I should just focus on making good grades, finishing my degree, having a good friendships, my body, and my interests and not worry about women at all. The thing is, women don't approach guys so I have to have some kind of focus on them otherwise I'll be invisible.

 

[handle]

Yes you can be yourself. This website is not telling you to change yourself entirely. All this site is doing is encouraging you to actually approach, to fulfil goals, to present yourself well, etc.

Don't get caught up in the specific advice about how to act around women. That stuff is largely bs. It's more important to have a point of view, have passions in your life, don't look like a slob, and approach. Women will like it. Don't go overhauling your entire personality. That's nonsense.

Ultimately it is about being you. What's that line? "Be the best version of yourself?"