breaking it all down

[dbot]

It seems most people on this forum are looking for the most in-depth explanations they can find when it comes to picking up women. Nobody cares what works and what doesn't. Everyone wants to know why. This is an artical written a while back by Tyler Durden on what it really means to "play hard to get" and the psychological response it creates in women. Trust me, the article is F*CKING GOLD. I know its long, but don't bother reading it unless you plan on reading the whole thing.

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PLAYING HARD TO GET - BEING A CHALLENGE - BEING THE PRIZE


I talked about posting some more advanced material for guys who are interested.
Here is a first helping. If you're not interested in dense material, read
something else.

This is one of the most important posts I've written in some time, and it will
likely go misunderstood given that most guys will not have the field experience
to appreciate it. It is the most important thread I've posted in six months.

For guys who can gain attraction very consistently, but still have trouble
getting laid: read this post until you have it down.

A few things to keep in mind, I want to throw out here:

-Buying Temperature Spikes
-S/C Switch (Screening vs Chasing switch)
-Social hook point and sexual hook point
-Female psychology (autopilot responses, socially conditioned buying
temperature regulation, value responses, choice making f*ck rationalizations)
-Bodylanguage subcommunication of hard-to-getness (the idea of not saying
you're hard to get, but communicating it with your bodylanguage)

***This post is directed towards girls who you ascertain are attracted to
challenging guys. Not all girls are like this, but many hot girls are. Again,
many aren't. For guys use or advocate other styles which don't make use of
this sort of stuff, the reason that they are getting laid is that they using
other means of getting laid. There is more than one style. This post is
something that is useful for guys in my context, and if you're using a totally
different style than me, then this stuff may be useless to you.


SOME ROUGH THOUGHTS ON FEMALE PSYCHOLOGY:

Many of the hottest girls are extremely responsive to hard to get guys. Anyone
in field has experienced the scenario where he plays hard to get and having the
girl chase, but as soon as he shows interest he is blown out. This can happen
even as late as the bedroom. Like, you'll have a girl chasing you all night,
isolate you back home, but because you make the first move, she locks up and
the pickup is over.

There are several reasons behind this, and in any given situation one or all of these reasons may have caused the lockup:

Firstly, you have autopilot responses. Think to the last time that you walked
down the street, and a vagrant asked you for change. Perhaps you said "no",
and kept walking. You don't consider it a lie. It's just an autopilot
response to a social situation. Girls are the same with the LJGD ("let's just
go dance") or "let's go to the bathroom", when their buying temperature goes
down and their logical social conditioning kicks in and says "This guy is
trying to sleep with us. He may be attractive, but who cares, I'm not meeting
a guy at a club. I'm leaving this situation to go dance, because that's why I
came to the club in the first place."

Notice also, how in all of the times that you've told a vagrant "no" when you
were asked for spare change, there were those few times when someone asked you
for help, and you said "no" out of habit, when in fact as you walked off you
might have thought to yourself "Sh*t, maybe that guys' car really did break
down. He didn't look like a vagrant. I wonder if I was a d*ck to him?"

The same goes for girls. They'll screen guys out as an auto-pilot response,
and later wonder if they made a mistake (but they don't care, because another
guy will come along in two seconds anyway). Attraction and how alpha or how
sexual you are is not a factor here. Even very attractive guys get screened
out for no logical reason. This is purely an autopilot response that you have
to recognize and dodge. That is why we use opening tactics - they open
consistently.

Likewise, girls will leave a set as their buying temperature increases too
fast, as an autopilot response. They think "I don't know this guy. This guy
knows what he's doing, and probably does it to all the girls. I'm getting out
of here." This is why we use fractionation tactics, so as to avoid her
disengaging you. Note also, that typical C&F push/pull is NOT a fractionation
tactic. C&F and the like is not indirect, even if you are flirting around that
you are hard to get. Girls know that if you're taking the time to engage them,
even in a C&F hard to get flirtish type way, that it is not the case that you
are *legitimately* hard to get. This is in the same way that when a girl comes
up to me and says that my shirt is stupid - I know that she wants me. There is
no difference. C&F is simply a *competent* way of flirting, that says a
million and one great things about you. It's still (arguably, depending on
semantics) a direct approach in some ways. It's just a direct approach that
girls like, because it still shows that you are willing to walk away - you're
interested, but you can take it or leave it. So that said, you can see how
"You're my new girlfriend.. No wait, you don't have x-whatever? We're broken
up." is not a fractionation technique. It's highly competent flirting, but its
not *actually* conveying that you don't want her in a way where she really
believes it.

**If I had to pinpoint one reason why guys who come to this stuff have trouble
getting results, its what is outlined in this post. Girls are used to sex
going down in a certain way. Walking up to girls and overtly trying to pick
them up goes against what they're used to. It's a violation of social norms.
Girls will tolerate it as cute, and they'll be interested to see what you'll
do. But they'll rarely sleep with you (unless they are at a certain point in
their lives where they are open to the idea, which I'll post about below in
terms of "f*ck rationalizations" - and this does happen often, which accounts
for alot of the success that we see with other styles of approaches). Guys go
in trying to convince the girl, when they should be BAITING the girl into
convincing THEM. As a result, most of the bold moves that guys who come to the
scene attempt, wind up not yielding any results.

So back on female psychology then, why do girls like *actual* hard to get guys?

Girls naturally enjoy having their buying temperature pumped up high. So if
they can get those emotions out of an interaction, without worrying that the
guy will exploit her suggestible state and have sex with her, then she can just
get all emotionally aroused around him, and enjoy it. Of course what happens
from there is that she backwards rationalizes it, and then convinces herself
that she legitimately wants the guy. From there, she decides that she's going
to get the guy, and starts chasing him in a manner as unsophisticated and
blatantly obvious as how a pissed drunk AFC would chase a girl that he wants at
a party. She'll kino him, giggle and scream around him, compliment him, signal
her friends to help her, and try to isolate him.

Notice, as this post goes on, that this last paragraph explains why just
getting a girls' buying temperature up high is not good enough, and that she
actually has to chase. It's because of the backwards rationalization process,
and the sexual hook point that she crosses over as a result. The S/C switch
(screen/chase) gets flipped.

There are also issues of validation at work. Notice that if you tell a girl "I
hate you", she starts touching you immediately, and begs to know why. Notice
that if you engage the whole set, but actively ignore the choice girl, she'll
start trying to get you to talk to her. This is all validation. It's more
validating for the often insecure hot girls, to sleep with a guy who will
reinforce that she is beautiful.

 

[dbot]

Think about your last cute girlfriend. She was cute. She was great in bed.
But sooner or later, you got used to it, and took it for granted. Your
relationship started stagnating. Then you're out at a party one night, and all
these guys are giving her attention. Her friends are there, and she's having a
great time just doing her own thing. All of a sudden, she looks different.
She seems different. You say to your friend, "You know man, I was just
thinking how cool Kathy is. I really want to stick with her." Then she comes
over, and sits with you. And its like "Wow, I actually have this girl with me.
This is awesome".

Haa - she's no different than she was an hour ago when you were sick of her.
But when you can tell that someone doesn't need you, they just SEEM different.
There's something about it that's hard to articulate. But what it boils down
to, is that all of a sudden, this person's attention has become a source of
validation for you. And as a result, they seem more attractive. (BTW: I use
the paragraph before this one as a killer routine in sets, except I take out
the part about stagnation and focus more on how I know that I appreciate
someone and the positive sides of it).

In addition to the validation issue, there are basic genetic/status
explainations and accounts for why hard to get guys are appealing. Very
basically, guys who are sexually pre-selected by other girls because of their
genetics and/or social status will be hard to get, because they can't be
bothered with chasing women. They simply walk around, and girls chase them.
Chasing a girl is in some ways subcommunicating that you are not one of these
guys. If you go to the high class venues in Los Angeles, the mere act of
actively picking up is looked down on by the highly socially proofed guys.
They'll say things like "That guy over there is trying to pull ass. Kick him
out."

A counter argument is that an alphamale will see a girl that he wants, and will
just go up and assume the sell. This can also work, if you genuinely come
across that way, and if you have the followup to back it up congruently.

Generally though, this is uncommon. Natural PUAs generally just walk around,
and girls give them AIs (approach invitations) or make it really easy for them
by throwing themselves at them, in a way that most surrounding men just don't
recognize (and women don't acknowledge, as this would be a breach of "Secret
Society" to admit what's happening, and would break down their whole system of
secretly being the CHOOSERS). Note, that the idea of the alphamale who does
approaches in society is a SOCIAL MISCONCEPTION. This rarely happens.
Generally, natural alphamales do not do cold approaches. I've travelled all
over North America and Europe, and I rarely see it. I know exactly what to
look for - and I *rarely* see them initiating cold approaches. It happens only
in certain communities, like London and NYC. But this is very very uncommon,
and even in these communities 99% of the naturals who get laid often are still
not doing cold approaches.

The ideas that "men take all the risks in escalation" and "men do the
approaching, women do the receiving", that the academic community of
psychologists and zoologists have espoused is BAD DATA. It is literally a
fallacy and blemish of the academic community. It is a pathetic and glaring
example of the follies of academia's white ivory tower armchair theorism, from
eggheads who couldn't put any of their theory into practice if you gave them 10
years of prepare it (this is a gripe that I have as a student of political and
analytic philosophy, that I see transferred over into this field as well).
What these social scientists don't see (AFCs that they are), while they're
watching all of the interactions that they supposedly use as empirical data in
their published studies (which influence social understandings and thus social
conditioning), is that while the men are the ones approaching and escalating,
it is the women who are throwing themselves at these clueless men, until they
do something. So in that case, the woman has virtually ALREADY DECIDED that
she wants the man, and from there she just doesn't admit it (secret society
breach), but rather throws herself at the guy until he escalates. She even
puts up silly sh*t tests like (this from a double lay that SB007 and I did on a
2set that we pulled) "Just because you're renting that hotel, doesn't mean
we're going up with you."... and later on in the night .... "just because we
came up here, doesn't mean we're sleeping with you.." And typical AFCs, will
say "Wow, we really plowed through that resistance", when in fact these girls
had chosen to sleep with SB007 and I LONG before we'd taken them back to the
hotel that we rented right in front of them. We were the hard to get guys, and
just let them play out their dramatic act of throwing themselves at us in
subtle ways, while pretending that they didn't know what was happening. And
then we allowed them to structure the extraction while making it look like it
was our idea and not their fault, and then afterwards they denied
responsibility for what took place, while they still email us regularly and
want to meet up again. These girls would claim that we chose them, when in
fact they chose us - which few people realize is the way it almost always
happens.

The idea that "girls choose" also stems from the male/female social dynamic in
our society, and the practices and habits that spawn from it. Men are
unconsciously giving sexual validation to attractive women all day long, in one
way or another. It's either they're checking them out, asking them the time,
trying to make small talk, or pivoting left instead of right as they walk out
of a room - when it would be faster to pivot left but he can catch a glimpse of
her by pivoting right. Girls are all too aware of this stuff. It's built into
them. They also go to the club religiously, to relish the process of guys
buying them drinks and checking them out, and then shooting them down. A quote
over from literally the hottest girl on my campus two months ago after an
off-night: "I'm so depressed. No guys approached me tonight. I would never
get together with a guy from a club, but I can't believe that I didn't get
approached."

So what winds up happening, is that girls get into a pattern of not seeking out
sex. They tend to go in cycles, where rather than chasing sex, they simply
decide to give it up at arbitrary times. "This is the day that I will give it
up." So for example, a typical girl will have a "revenge" f*ck, a "just broke
up with my boyfriend rebound" f*ck, a "I haven't gotten laid in exactly 6
months" f*ck, a "I'm on vacation and there are no social consequences and I
just want to have fun" f*ck, a "I need to revalidate myself being snubbed to
prove I'm beautiful" f*ck, a "romantic tryst adventure" f*ck, a "jump on the
sword so my friend can have her guy" f*ck, a "I haven't gone home with a guy
before, and all my friends have and I want to try it" f*ck, etc etc etc. Then
of course there is the "I've been dating this guy 3 months, and he provides
well and its time to give it up now" f*ck, which is the one that we typically
aren't concerned about on this chat forum.

The girl has had sex available to her continually, but she can't "give it up"
at every opportunity that comes around, because she'd wind up sleeping with
15,000 different men by the time she was finished. So instead, she comes up
with rationalizations of when and where to give it up.

Thus, it is the case that girls are in the habit of making the choice. The
second that they see that the guy is trying to make the choice for them, the
sequence is broken, and their auto-pilot response kicks in and they
automatically go back to screening him (even if they like him), just as they
had on every other day prior to this one. (Don't make the mistake of thinking
that you still don't have to do the work in making up BS excuses so that it
isn't the girls' fault, once the ball is rolling. That is a different story.
It still has to be "not her fault". What's being discussed here is a separate
issue from that).

 

[dbot]

This is the fallacy that guys make when approaching. They think that they can
choose the girl, because they've pumped her buying temperature and she's been
receptive to it. In practice though, if the S/C Switch doesn't flip, she'll
still just sit back and enjoy the emotions, without having to give up anything
in return. That's when you get situations where the girl will hang with you
alll night, but won't give up her #, or she'll give it but she'll flake, or
she'll give insurmountable LMR even if you extract.

That's because the right SEQUENCE hasn't been initiated, to make her "Today is
the day" switch flip (where she'll pick from one of the many
f*ck-rationalizations, in the heat of the moment). And that sequence is "Guy
is attractive. I can't take it anymore, so today is the day. I choose guy. I
throw myself at him in oblique ways that he can't directly prove is me actually
doing it. He eventually notices my actions and picks me up. I do nothing to
help it move along, but if he makes everything happen and alleviates me of
responsibility then it happens. He takes the credit for picking me up." The
sequence is NOT "Guy walks up and tries to attract me. I decide that I'm
attracted. I let him f*ck me."

For that reason, the guy may have switched every attraction switch in the book
in terms of buying temperature, but unless she is the one making the choice,
the S/C switch will not be flipped. She is attracted, but her thought process
is STILL occupied with trying to find every reason possible not to let anything
happen.

She must switch from the typical mode of perpetual screening, to chasing. Her
THOUGHT PROCESS must be switched. She must believe that you are a guy who is a
source of attraction (ie: buying temperature escalation), but that you are not
intentionally doing it to her. This is the same reason that if you tell a girl
that you study 'pickup', she will be offended. You are breaking the sequence
that is protected via the Secret Society, so to speak. You are messing up
their ability to make a "good" choice.

From there, she has switched into chase mode. She is no longer dwelling
whatsoever on why she shouldn't do anything (as she would be perpetually, if
she thought that you were trying to lay her). Now, she's focused only on how
to make it happen with you. Her thought process has changed. The S/C Switch
has been flipped. She's focused solely on making it happen (except that she's
not admitting to herself that she's trying to "get laid" - nope - she's just
trying to continue the interaction back to somewhere that it could happen,
despite that she deep down knows that she IS trying to get laid, but won't
actively admit it to herself).

So that said, how do you trip that switch early on? Let's look at some
straight tactics.

*****


FLIPPING THE S/C SWITCH, VIA TIMED FRACTIONATION ON BUYING TEMPERATURE SPIKES:

What is a buying temperature spike? You've all seen it. It's when you do or
say something to give the girl a quick shot of emotions. Like a C&F remark
where she goes "Oh!" and swats you. Or you tell her that you know something
that she wants to know bad, and she goes "OMG OMG OMG, tell me tell me tell
me!" Or when you run a really tight story that has her dying laughing or
excited or intrigued. Or if you do a DHV, like the coin snatch trick or
Mystery's 3 and 7 routine, and she freaks out. Or a great joke. Or even just
coming in strong with good bodylanguage and tonality, and sucking up the
attention of everyone in the set, and her buying temperature shoots up (you see
this when you go in with an opener, and the girls just jump to talk to you or
answer your question). Whatever.

You see it on their face, and you see it in the way that they turn their
bodylanguage towards you, and when they kino you. Her buying temperature has
shot up. Usually, it hits in abrupt bursts. Little spikes on the graph. You
know you can't *maintain* this level indefinetely, but you can hit that level
in bursts.

These buying temperature spikes are the right time to start doing subtle
takeaways. That is, not the kind of takeaway where you walk off into another
set. Rather, you just break eyecontact with her, and face away a bit. You
*exactly* what the girls do to you, when you're gaming them in a club, and they
get distracted because a peice of your material is not strong enough. You turn
to your friends or the bar or the dancefloor, and you make it look like you're
about to leave.

*But*, girls are very much accostomed to getting what they want. So unlike
most guys who will give up, their instant reaction is to go "HEY HEY HEY, keep
talking.. What were you saying??? What???"

That is your first step in getting the girls chasing. You have conveyed that
you might walk away at any point, and all of the aforementioned issues are now
dealt with. You are an attractive guy, and you have very clearly (in such a
subtle way) demonstrated that you are not trying to get her. IOW, the natural
process of her becoming attracted to you and choosing you has begun.

This kind of timing takes time and practice to cultivate. It can also be
learned right off the opener. Here are some examples:

1- "I'm shy":
My friend Shannon walks up to a set. I walk up to her and she introduces me.
I say "Hey, I'm shy" with a super ****y look on my face, and turn to Shannon
and say "Let's go outside". Here I looked like a ****y cool and fun guy, who
they were about to get a little bit of buying temperature entertainment from -
gratuitous entertainment for their night. But I *spotted* that look on their
face, so I automatically took it away. *But*, I left a hook that they could
grab on to. I said "Hey, I'm shy", and then turned to Shannon as if I were
about to leave. In fact, I wasn't, but knew that they'd force me to stay.
From there, they scream "Why are you shy?! Why are you shy?! Don't go.. Why
are you shy?!", and I roll back in and game them. You can also use "I hate
you", "I hate you guys", or "I hate girls". These work amazingly well as
followups, and work well when you're merging into a set with your wing. Again,
the girls say "Why?? Whyyyy?!??"

2- Eyecodes and bluffing that you're entering the set, and flashing peacocky
zipper:
I walk by some guys who are gaming a set poorly. I walk right up to the set,
and do "let's go" girl eye code to the girls (I roll my eyes, like "These guys
are tools"). I also make little eye movements down to where their hands are
too eagerly touching the girls, and make eye movements at the beers that they
bought for them, and smirk right after I see them. The girls know what's up -
they can tell that I know the deal of how women are. I walk right up like I'm
about to out-alpha the guys, but then shake my head a bit like "This is too
lame for me to even bother with", and then back away while still maintaining
eye contact with the girls. Here I am using my PRESENCE as something that will
give them a quick buying temperature level spike, and then I am withdrawing. I
then proceed to tug on the zipper of my very peacocky zipper covered (BAIT)
vest, and look from her eyes down to my vest. I have provided the bait. The
girls immediately go "Hey! That vest is awesome! Let me see! Let me see!",
and blow off the guys and jump over to me.

3- Take over set with C&F comment and AMOG blaster:
I look over from my barstool, and plow in with booming tonality some C&F
comments, and proceed to shoot a quick out-alpha routine on the AMOG. For
anyone who read my FR last week, it was a coment about a girl saying that
everyone thought she had fake breasts. I yelled over "That's great - they'll
give you buoyancy if we're ever lost at sea. You'll be the only one to
survive". Both girls look at me, and are intrigued. Then the AMOG says "Hey,
this is my girlfriend", and I reply with "Haa, cool.. You guys look so
similar; I thought that you guys were brother and sister. If you guys have
kids they'll look like (I do a funny impression)." I then make a comment to
the guy that he owns this end of the bar, turn my barstool around, and
takeaway. Again, I have come in with COOLER presence than everyone else. I
added energy to the group, which spiked up the girls' buying temperature, and
then noticing that I immediately took it away. The girls immediately re-open
me.

 

[dbot]

4- Opinion opener:
This is something that I do all the time with Sickboy007. Like all the time.
This is key to our game. We roll into set talking amongst ourselves. Like we
are the coolest guys in the club, and not needy at all. We're having more fun
in our own conversation than we could be talking to anyone else. (Note: We
usually actually ARE, so this is congruent. We talk about cool sh*t while we're
in the field, and joke around alot. This keeps our state up, and is much
better than talking game in field and getting too analytical). Despite being
both guys, because we are both cool we actually provide more social proof to
eachother than a female pivot would. So right off the bat, we look like best
friends who could care less if they'll talk to us or not, because we are cooler
and more interesting than them. We tap one of the girls, and run the first
line of the opinion opener. They're thinking "Wow, those cool looking guys we
saw are actually coming over to talk to us". Then they give their answer, and
I we immediately turn our bodylanguage away from facing them, and into
eachother. Then we assimilate their answer into our conversation, and
transition into joking around about other sh*t that the girls DON'T GET, but it
sounds interesting. So the girls see that we basically just tooled them to add
to our own fun, and they can see that our conversation is so f*cking
interesting that they want to join it very badly. After all, we weren't rude.
We just didn't follow them like puppydogs, like most guys would. So notice that
the hook has been laid. The girls will interrupt us, and say 'Why did you ask
us that? What about David Bowie?? What?? What?? How old is your little
sister??" They keep trying to get in, and win us into a conversation.


**Notice that in all these cases, I'm laying the bait on the hook, and then
pulling it back. I don't actually walk away. I just make the initial body
movements that I'm about to walk away, because of the way that I pivot my body.
But I'm not actually walking away. In fact, I'm not going anywhere. I know
that if I lay the hook right, they'll start trying to re-open ME. It's all in
hitting it at the *exact* moment, and then turning as if you're about to walk
away, but providing some bait that they can open you off of, so they don't have
to think too hard (God forbid).

IMPORTANT:
In addition to setting the hard to get frame, there are other things being laid
down here that will help your pickup as it goes along. When you come in with a
straight opener, and then start talking, she will often go into "receptive
mode". An example that I do in seminar to explain this, is I'll be talking for
an hour, and then out of nowhere I'll point to a student and say "Hey man. Do
me a favour. Say the coolest thing that you can think of right now. Just say
any random cool thing. Whatever you want." *Never* has a student been able to
do it. They just sit there gawking, and they can't think of a single thing to
say. Likewise, nobody else in the room can either. That's because their brain
has been in "receive" mode for the last hour. They've been sucking up all the
info, and their mental process of calling things up isn't in gear. It's like
doing your math homework. Your first problem takes you 10 minutes. Your
second one, 5. Then every one after that takes 1 minute each. That's because
your brain has engaged into "math mode". Likewise, if the girl is just
listening and listening, she won't be able to qualify herself to you very
easily, because she's too busy taking what you're saying all in. So what winds
up happening (and many guys will recognize this phenomenon), is that a pause
occurs in the conversation, and because the girl feels the emotion of
discomfort that she can't think of a way to fill it, she immediately says
"Cool. Anyway, I have to go dance now". And POW, even though she was digging
you, she left because the emotion of not having anything to say sunk her buying
temperature so quickly. Another reason, is because by talking so much, you're
logically disengaging her so strongly, that the sudden cognitive shift from the
emotional saturation of being gamed without having to contribute anything, to
suddenly actually having to (God forbid) THINK about what to say, will slam
gear shift her brain into logical thinking so fast, that its like slamming your
car from 5th to first gear, while driving 100 down the freeway. So better, is
to get BOTH her mind thinking of what to say, and buying temperature still
escalating. This happens, because she's getting excited by the process of
actually gaming you. You've baited her into selling herself on you. This is a
basic persuasion tactic. Nothing more. Before she's even had a chance to
decide whether or not she even wants you, you're already taking away the
option. But of what she's seen of you, you spike her buying temperature, so
she felt high attraction for the second that you were there. That way, when
its time for her to pipe in, she can easily think of something to say, and the
set will hold, AND she'll be more likely to be able to qualify herself to you.

And that said, they often WILL do things to qualify themselves to you. You can
AMPLIFY this again, with some playful hard to get tactics.

This is a really f*cking key peice. Pay close attention to it. Say for
example, you went in with "I'm shy", and then pulled out. They'll say "Why are
you shy? We're nice girls!" You can reply "Umm yeah.. You're OK.. Oh sh*t,
you have a belly button ring. Don't show me that." Immediately, you'll see
them jumping up and pulling your face down to look at their peircing. They'll
say "Look at it! Loooook at it!!!!" Then you look at it, and like they've
entranced you, you talk to them a bit more.

The same can be done after you exchange signs. They'll tell you that they're
Libras, and you say "I can't talk to you anymore.. You're trouble". This is as
if you're moderating your own buying temperature. You turn your back on them,
and they'll grab your shoulder and say "NO!! You tell me your sign NOW!! Are
you a Libra too?!?!"

Another one you'll see alot, is that you run the hook, and pull back. Typical
girl tactics, they'll start touching you. So say that they touch your
shoulder. You can act like it feels really good. You mumble "That actually
feels really good - my shoulder is so sore. You have to stop doing that..
Stop.. Seriously.. That's a bad idea.." They'll do it more and more. "OK,
you're getting me all emotional.. enough.."

Even without hook openers though (which I only use a small percentage of the
time), I can still engage the chasing just further into the set. It doesn't
require that you do it right off the opener like in the case of hook openers.
Its convenient if you can do it early, but it isn't required at all. The only
time limit is that the dynamic isn't set in stone that you're too giving and
eager. So long as I avoid that scenario, I will only do it off the opener if
I spot a buying temperature spike. Otherwise, I proceed as normal, until I see
it.

I do the same on tonguedowns. I'll be kissing the girl, and then I'll pull
back, and mumble "OK, stop.. We seriously have to stop." They'll say "Why?"
and keep trying to push more. You say "I'm just getting so....." and then
they'll pull you back in. Do this repeatedly. This is an extension to the
Style kiss close, where he goes in with "I'm trying so hard not to kiss you
right now".

Basically, the idea here is that you BAIT the girl, by giving her information
on how to seduce you, but telling her not to do it.

The thing is though, that you have to be congruent with it. You actually use
your bodylanguage at various points, to deliberately try to screw up your own
pickup. Because girls are used to getting what they want, they'll re-initiate
it HARD. This is NOT just a verbal thing. It's a bodylanguage thing. Girls
respond to how you use your body. Try to speak using your body.

This is very similar to martial arts. It's like "parry, strike, dodge, parry,
strike, dodge.. strike.. etc etc.." You're going "Hit up buying temperature,
pull back.. Give her an idea of how to seduce you, pull back.. Give a bit.. Hit
up buying temperature again.. Pull back.. Hit up buying temperature again..
Pull back.. Give her an idea.. Pull back.. etc etc"

 

[dbot]

From there, when I do extractions or get a phone number, I also make them work
for it. Often, they'll be walking away and say they have to go. I'll say "OK"
and just look at them blank. They'll immediately offer their # or to take
mine. But that aside, I also use bait to make them go for it. I'll wait until
they say something cool, and I'll act like a girl whose buying temperature just
shot up. I'll look intrigued or excited and say "Wow. Geez, I have to take
you to x-place". I'll pick something that I know they want bad. Something
that they'll react to. Or I'll just use something ordinary, but I'll map out a
scenario (using future adventures projection of us doing awesome stuff), and
just go with that. They'll immediately offer up their number. Then I'll say
"OK cool", and just change the subject. Just like how a girl does to guys.
What's next is funny to watch. She'll start trying to naturally "slip in" that
I should take her number. I'll keep saying "Yeah cool, I'll get it later". I
keep doing this, until she's asked me to exchange numbers around 5-15 times
over the next hour. Often they'll just ask me for my number out of concern
that I won't call. When I finally acknowledge that I'll call is when she does
something impressive. Then I'll say "WOW.. What was your number again? I'm
definetely calling you." Moreover, girls will also try to extract me for food
after the club closes. I'll say "Yeah awesome!" but then turn to my wing and
keep talking to him. They keep pushing for it, and they'll run and grab their
friend and try to make their friend convince me as well. Then I'll capitulate.
I may not necessarily wait for them to initiate it. Many just won't. So
instead, I'll wait for them to do something to impress me, and then I'll
suggest it. If they're giving me a backrub, I may say "I'm hungry. I want to
go to Denny's after this."

But I do the same in the other direction. I act just like a flakey stimulus
seeking girl. If they bore me, I just walk off in distraction. If something
interesting happens, I'll walk over to it to check it out. If a good song
comes on, I may just get up and walk away. If they say something I don't like,
I'll lean away and start looking at other girls. They have to keep tapping me
on the shoulder and tell me to keep talking, in order for me to stay attentive.

So how do you seduce in a case where the act of seducing would be incongruent
to everything you've built up. They play it up, and the girl tries to get
them, but then they stupidly go against everything that they've been doing get
them attracted all this time, and start trying to seduce them. This is
incongruent. It kills attraction instantly. It relies on some fallacy that
the girl likes you for your personality, when in fact she may, but it is not
relevant to her *attraction* for you. You're switching gears too quickly, from
5th to 1st gear, in one foul swoop. It doesn't work. Attraction dies
instantly. I've had girls who went completely cold, even after spending hours
with me - all because I dropped the hard to get act, and started trying to
escalate - without doing the right transition work (I will explain).

Instead, you have to play it smooth. This requires you to have strong verbal
skills and calibration skills. The girl has been getting you comfortable being
closer and closer to her the whole time, so its fine if you're right next to
her, and even in kino. But you have to keep presenting challenges to her, and
punishing and rewarding her with those challenges. She'll say something that I
like, and I'll lean in like I'm about to kiss her. Then I won't. I'll slowly
start moving back, until she says something else that I like. Then I move in
closer than the first time. Then I move slowly back. Then she says something
that I like, and I move right in to kiss her, and say "You're getting me all
emotional", and pull back. Then I keep my face up to hers, and we talk face to
face, with lips grazing eachother, and she says something I like and turn my
face and stop talking, and then her talking will merge into triangular gazing
and my lips will graze hers more and then we're making out. I may also say
"I'm not going to" at different points, when she's obviously trying to move in
to kiss me. If she says "Not going to what?", I won't answer. Rather, I'll
just keep talking in the quiet face-to-face way that we've been doing.

Also - again, you can do things like "You're wearing Channel? Don't let me
smell it.. Don't..." (she'll practically tackle you and put her neck up to your
face to make you smell it). Then you can phase shift, but then snap your own
state and move back. But as you're moving back, you say things to pump her
buying temperature.

A GREAT thing to reward girls for is also dancing in front of you, or in
between your legs. Although they'd never admit it (Secret Society Breach),
dancing is a sexual exhibition. So if you can make her perceive that her
dancing is what's getting your buying temperature up, she'll feel fully
qualified. You kiss her, but you still don't keep trying. You just do it, and
then sit there blank afterwards. She still has more to do.

Remember that this is like f*cking with magnets. You're constantly backing
off, but doing it SPECIFICALLY at a time when you know you've spiked buying
temperature, so that she'll chase the stimulus.

That's the part that's so hard to convey in text. I show this to guys in
workshop no problem, but I can't explain it that well. You have to actually
take the time to mentally catalogue all of the little bodylanguage mannerisms
that girls use, when they're getting distracted. And then you use these on
them. And when you use them, you have to TIME it just at the right time -
right when you hit on the right emotion. Always remember that there are so
many f*cking little ways that you reveal that you really want her. It only
takes the slightest slip, and the jig is up. You have to be congruent.

Note that if you pull away at the wrong time when her buying temperature is
down, she'll backwards rationalize that she is not experiencing attraction, and
that she's not attracted to you anymore and that she's HAPPY that you're
backing off. This will end it. So you have to have the verbal game and
physical coquettishness to play this up properly.

Now as for seducing, this is like trapping an animal that you've baited closer
and closer. If you do decide to pounce on her, do it ONLY once she has been
baited too close, and she won't be able to get away. What I mean by that, is
do it only once you have her lying with you snuggling, and then you can start
playing your late game. If you do it prior to that, her physical horniness
from contact with you won't have kicked in yet, and she'll have nothing to
counter-act the state breaker that you dropping the hard to get act was playing
up.

Notice, btw, that there is both a social hook point and a sexual hook point.
Style has talked about the "hook point", as the point in the pickup in which
the girls have stopped wondering "why is this guy talking to us", and have
decided that they don't want you to leave. They'll do things to help the
conversation continue, and your life becomes much easier. The same goes down
the line, where there is a sexual hook point. You'll see this alot, especially
with girls on vacation. This is where they've actually decided that they want
to hook up with you. If you get this kind of girl, you'll notice zero LMR down
the line. If you escalate, she will not resist IF she feels that she worked
hard enough to get you. If not, then her desire to meet a challenge has not
been fulfilled, and instead she thinks "Haa, he wants me for no reason like
everyone else. What a chump."

 

[dbot]

Anyway, in summary, a few points to have taken from this are:

1- There is a natural social process that occurs, which women don't want you to
know about. They want you to think that you're the one who picked them up, so
they don't have to "be responsible" for it. However, this fallacy has spawned
guys in this community to develop pickup styles that violate social practices,
in a way that isn't effective. (I violate social practices myself, but in a way
that nobody spots). That's why when you talk about hitting on girls, the girls
don't like it. But if you ask them "How *would* you like a guy to hit on you?"
they have no realistic reply. It's because they secretly know that they pickup
guys, but don't admit it publically or even to themselves.

2- Being able to attract a girl is often not enough. Girls find themselves
wanting to sleep with various guys that they see all day long. What it takes
to actually get laid, is to flip her S/C switch, so that she's decided "Today
is the day. This guy is the guy". This is why there are many guys in the
scene who can run a tight set, but still don't get laid. They have a certain
part of their game down, but need to work more on flipping that f*cking S/C
Switch.

3- Being aware of buying temperature spikes, and knowing WHEN to pull away is
key. If you just pull away at arbitrary times, you will not get a result.

4- Guys think that looks is the most important part of a pickup. In fact, its
brains. You have to be smart as f*cking hell to do this stuff. You have to
think fast on your feet, and you have to calibrate. Most guys don't have a
repertoire of material that will spike buying temperature, and fall into a trap
of talking about situational stuff, which girls just interpret as you trying to
get rapport with them, and makes you unchallenging.

5- There is a difference between a girl being attracted to you, and a girl
wanting to f*ck you. If you are TOO GIVING in set, then you run the risk of
being the first guy, not the second. You have to be giving, but strategically.

6- To implant the idea of seducing you into the girls' mind, you have to have a
repertoire of material to do so. That is BOTH material to entertain sets so
you can pull a girl from her group or open a lone girl in a way that doesn't
set off an autopilot response, but also you have to have material that gets her
thinking that she wants you and gets her chasing you. This material is a
combination of regular material that you use to spike buying temperature, and
then pulling back, as well as recognizing anything that you can misinterpret as
her trying to seduce you, and then pulling back from that as well, which raises
the challenge and makes her do it more, and then you can play with it in the
ways that were mentioned.


Anyway, hopefully some guys got some useful ideas from this post. I'm not sure
how well it came across in writing, and I much prefer just demonstrating it in
field, because although its complex in writing, its fairly simple in practice
once you know what to look for and what to use.

Have fun.