Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Real Life Applications?

[The Inside Man]

Also I have locked in guillotines on my friends who surprise me with a tackle or take down, and my friend who is a gracie national champ sometimes does a little hook kick to the back of the knee(after ducking a punch usually), followed by locking in a quick rnc with the hooks during fistfights. I think an armbar would also be applicable, I like to whip a quick armbar from bottom if I get taken down also. Works best right at the moment of takedown so you can keep the opponents momentum rolling into the armbar. The way I hip out, I end up with my stomach on the ground and the armbar locked between my stomach and the ground, perpendicular to the opponent who is face down at this point also. Break someones arm and their friends probably won't want to jump in lol.

 

[bigjohnson]

handguns take 1.5 seconds for an ace to draw and shoot, ...

Jim Zubiena, one take wonder. If guns sucked for defense situations cops and other pros wouldn't use them, end of story.

 

[Suicide]

handguns take 1.5 seconds for an ace to draw and shoot, longer for average people. The accomplished martial artists strike is multiple times faster than a cobra strike-fractions of a second..saw it on national geographic! The window of opportunity is there at close range...

This is correct and should be a concern for people who only would rely on a gun. You're not carrying that thing on your hip on the street unless you're a cop, so good luck drawing and aiming it in the single second you have before I'm in your face.

 

[bigjohnson]

It takes about 2+ seconds to recognize a threat, react and start putting holes in it IF you're unaware of the current situation, but that's not what this moronic thread is about. This thread is about a guy who feels he has legitimate concerns for his safety at this moment and no prior training.

It's too farking late for him to become a super-duper steel nerved bone breaking machine like you guys ALL are.

If he's legitimately concerned with protection:

• Learn to be aware of his surroundings and avoid dangerous situations.
• Get weapon training
• Get weapon retention training
• Get a weapon.

Everything else is just a bunch of guys talking about how perfect their training is for fantasy situations and won't apply to him anyway because he can't back up 10 years and train now can he? Most attacks don't come from nowhere, the vast majority of the time it's people you've had history with or from going into a situation that was avoidable and obviously bad.

I've personally been in a few places where I was worried, and my piece was in my hand and out of sight way before anything resembling trouble got within 50 yards of me. Also factor in that NOTHING is gonna save you from a knife in the kidney in a crowded place; reality is we're all vulnerable a lot of the time but random attacks in 'good' places are not that prevalent.

I'm not knocking MA training, it's a hoot, just like practical shooting is a hoot, but spending your life doing something you don't enjoy on the off chance you might find it useful in real life is lame. If you enjoy it then do it.

 

[Belisarius]

He doesn't need 10 years to become a beast. A year or two of mma training will give a him a considerable advantage over the average person in a bar fight. I do agree though, that if personal protection is your chief concern, a weapon and weapon training are a much quicker and more effective means to achieve this end. Punches, kicks, submissions and throws are all fun and good but if the other guy has a knife or gun you are pretty much f*****. A stun gun could be an effective means of self protection and you don't need a permit for one. Also you don't have to worry about self defense with excessive force because they don't cause permanent damage.

 

[wolf116]

Are you sh!tting me! Do people really carry guns on them everywhere they go in America!

 

[Belisarius]

Some people do, very few though. Depends on where you are.

 

[wolf116]

OK so bigjohnson, when you go on a date or to the beach, you carry a M16 like you're Rambo or something?

Every man should learn to defend himself and others IMO. What are you going to do when you see a girl being abused and there are no weapons around?

It's happened to me twice this year.

 

[Reyaj]

BigJohnson would run and call the police.... although he doesn't think that by the time they arrive it may be too late.

Unfortunately BJ this is far from a perfect world despite our law enforcement.

 

[Centaurion]

During my time in the army I was attached to a special forces platoon. We were doing build-up training for deployment in Afganistan (I opted out - went to university instead), and hand-to-hand combat was one of the things we practised. Our instructor was a special forces guy with 10 years of experience and he had just returned from two tours in Afganistan.

Basically what he said was that hand-to-hand combat is usually BS. In a real life and death situation you don't have the time to go Chuck Norris on your opponent's ass, and if you're on the ground - you're fvcked. The only purpose of hand-to-hand combat is to get some distance from your opponent (if you are jumped) so you can whip out your hand piece and double tap him. The techniques he taught us where not some Bruce Lee 'tiger stance' or some good old Chuck Norris roundkicks - it was the 'dirty' way of fighting, ie poking eyes out, biting off noses, breaking arms etc.

He told us that we should do everything that we could so we would not end up in a situation like that. If you are aware of your surrounding and keep your wits, you can avoid trouble 99% of the time.

I see alot of kids on this forum that has been training BJJ etc, for a couple of years and now think that they are the fvcking gods of fighting. The truth is that unless you've trained for a life time, all the moves you've learned will fly out the window when you are in a life threatening situation. Your heart will be pumping, the adrenalin will be flowing and you'll be scared sh!tless - and there will be no second chances.



And also, keep in mind that if you have a couple of years of BJJ (or any martial arts training) behind your belt, the law will be more strict towards you (at least that's how it works here).

 

[Suicide]

During my time in the army I was attached to a special forces platoon. We were doing build-up training for deployment in Afganistan (I opted out - went to university instead), and hand-to-hand combat was one of the things we practised. Our instructor was a special forces guy with 10 years of experience and he had just returned from two tours in Afganistan.

Basically what he said was that hand-to-hand combat is usually BS. In a real life and death situation you don't have the time to go Chuck Norris on your opponent's ass, and if you're on the ground - you're fvcked. The only purpose of hand-to-hand combat is to get some distance from your opponent (if you are jumped) so you can whip out your hand piece and double tap him. The techniques he taught us where not some Bruce Lee 'tiger stance' or some good old Chuck Norris roundkicks - it was the 'dirty' way of fighting, ie poking eyes out, biting off noses, breaking arms etc.

He told us that we should do everything that we could so we would not end up in a situation like that. If you are aware of your surrounding and keep your wits, you can avoid trouble 99% of the time.

I see alot of kids on this forum that has been training BJJ etc, for a couple of years and now think that they are the fvcking gods of fighting. The truth is that unless you've trained for a life time, all the moves you've learned will fly out the window when you are in a life threatening situation. Your heart will be pumping, the adrenalin will be flowing and you'll be scared sh!tless - and there will be no second chances.



And also, keep in mind that if you have a couple of years of BJJ (or any martial arts training) behind your belt, the law will be more strict towards you (at least that's how it works here).

What country did you serve for? I have trained in the US Army Combatives (BJJ based) and let me say, they suck. Totally useless for just about anything, especially with the relatively small amount of training the average troop receives. I'd be interested to know the route other countries take with their hand to hand fighting.

 

[wolf116]

During my time in the army I was attached to a special forces platoon. We were doing build-up training for deployment in Afganistan (I opted out - went to university instead), and hand-to-hand combat was one of the things we practised. Our instructor was a special forces guy with 10 years of experience and he had just returned from two tours in Afganistan.

Basically what he said was that hand-to-hand combat is usually BS. In a real life and death situation you don't have the time to go Chuck Norris on your opponent's ass, and if you're on the ground - you're fvcked. The only purpose of hand-to-hand combat is to get some distance from your opponent (if you are jumped) so you can whip out your hand piece and double tap him. The techniques he taught us where not some Bruce Lee 'tiger stance' or some good old Chuck Norris roundkicks - it was the 'dirty' way of fighting, ie poking eyes out, biting off noses, breaking arms etc.

He told us that we should do everything that we could so we would not end up in a situation like that. If you are aware of your surrounding and keep your wits, you can avoid trouble 99% of the time.

I see alot of kids on this forum that has been training BJJ etc, for a couple of years and now think that they are the fvcking gods of fighting. The truth is that unless you've trained for a life time, all the moves you've learned will fly out the window when you are in a life threatening situation. Your heart will be pumping, the adrenalin will be flowing and you'll be scared sh!tless - and there will be no second chances.



And also, keep in mind that if you have a couple of years of BJJ (or any martial arts training) behind your belt, the law will be more strict towards you (at least that's how it works here).

The army only teaches you very little because they don't have enough time to train you every day for a couple of years.

Your BJJ training should be instinct.

I'm a skinny guy, not confrontational and I still get scared in street fights. But the last party I went to a 100kg+ guy tackled me out of nowhere and instantly without thinking I was able to choke him out.

 

[The Inside Man]

"It takes about 2+ seconds to recognize a threat, react and start putting holes in it IF you're unaware of the current situation, but that's not what this moronic thread is about. It's too farking late for him to become a super-duper steel nerved bone breaking machine like you guys ALL are. "

"Also factor in that NOTHING is gonna save you from a knife in the kidney"
Except learning how to knife fight/ knife box? www.coldsteel.com

Not trying to make this a guns vs. martial arts debate.
I am saying 9 times out of 10 you will probably shoot me. But one time out of ten I could put an assisted open buck knife in your jugular, hypothetically speaking :kick: I'm just saying the opportunity is there, the phrase don't bring a knife to a gunfight is obviously around for a reason.

"I see alot of kids on this forum that has been training BJJ etc, for a couple of years and now think that they are the fvcking gods of fighting. The truth is that unless you've trained for a life time, all the moves you've learned will fly out the window when you are in a life threatening situation. Your heart will be pumping, the adrenalin will be flowing and you'll be scared sh!tless - and there will be no second chances."



And what about those of us who have been training different martial arts from 1st grade? I have been in a few fights and my training sure didn't go "out the window". I have also only recently got into bjj, my bread and butter are wrestling and boxing. I have enough experience to know what I am talking about.

I guess the point I'm getting at is don't rely on any one weapon system.

 

[Centaurion]

What country did you serve for? I have trained in the US Army Combatives (BJJ based) and let me say, they suck. Totally useless for just about anything, especially with the relatively small amount of training the average troop receives. I'd be interested to know the route other countries take with their hand to hand fighting.

I served in Norway, and I wasn't just a 'regular' grunt - I was in a special recon unit. We spent 2 weeks with intensive training (from 7 am till 7 pm everyday). It was totally basic/simple, but lethal, kick punch kombos. Our mission would take us undercover in some very hostile areas, and knowing how to fight dirty would be a tremendous asset. Because if you get in a fight in a hostile area, and you pull out some fancy Chuck Norris moves, everyone will know you've had military/special training, thus blowing your cover. But if it is a rough and dirty 'normal' brawl, noone will think twice about it.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Good points made in this thread. Centaurian's instructor talking about dirty fighting sounds very realistic. There's no such thing as a fair fight. That's the difficulty of any street fight sitaution. You know if one of your friends was being put in a submission hold and screaming in pain you would probably not hesitate to clock someone over the back of the head to save a friend. So unless you are fighting someone who is completely alone, you only have the time it takes for a friend to deliver a kick to the head before ground skills lose the fight for you.

However, almost no ground surface is as forgiving as a wrestling mat. One good takedown or slam should break bones on pavement, then you can roll right off and look for the guy's friends. Coming from a wrestling background, I can say that it is ridiculously easy to take down people who have never grappled or learned bjj. Having said that, you never know someone's background, and if he knows how to wrestle, too, then any weight advantage he has starts to become a big deal. I would never pick a fight with someone who had 50 pounds on me, and if forced into one, boy would I fight dirty! My big bully of a neighbor got in my face once about my dog scaring his wife. He weighs about double what I do. I was so mad I got right back into his face and I was ready to fight with that guy. But the idea of throwing a punch would have been just stupid, like punching a cow. The cow would just look at you. I was going to climb up this redneck's overalls, bite him on the nose just like Centaurian's instructor teaches, choke him, and maybe hit him in the head with a rock if all of that didn't work. But it did not come to that, because that guy saw it all in my eyes. After getting up in my face, he started to be the one backing away. I could see him thinking, "Holy Sh!t, this kid's not scared of my giant fat ass. He's crazy!" Maybe no one has ever stood up to him. But I think that is another real-life application of fighting skills. Even when you don't actually fight, you don't let yourself get pushed around or bullied.

 

[Reyaj]

BB how do you think BJJ compares against someone with a solid wrestling background but no BJJ?

 

[Bible_Belt]

Honestly, I have no formal training in bjj; my only knowledge of it is from being a fan of ufc and mma. Someone who had training in both could answer that question better. But fwiw, after the takedown, the two are very different. Wrestling is staying off your back; bjj includes fighting from your back and learning the guard position. If a wrestler gets taken down, he 'builds his base' - a six-point stance knees/feet/hands - and then stands up as quickly as possible. There are other reversal techniques, but the idea in wrestling that you have drilled into your head is if you're taken down, get up. bjj afaik is different in that being down is not necessarily a bad thing. Gracie's school of fighters in the ufc will sometimes lay on their backs inviting the other fighter to attack them. This is very odd behavior to a wrestler, but I admire those guys' skills.

 

[Reyaj]

Im torn between BJJ and Judo right now. What bothers me about BJJ is exactly what you admire.... it relies too much on being on the ground. Ive watched a lot of MMA also, and often I've seen wrestlers/muay thai guys just beating on jiu jitsu guys while they stay in the guard position like a child. They just sit there and the person standing delivers strike after strike. makes me apprehensive

 

[Bible_Belt]

I just went to a cage fight, mostly amateurs. The guy who got hurt the worst kept trying to submit the other guy in a guillotine. The dude would slip out, punch him several times, then get stuck in another attempted guillotine. I am not well-versed enough in bjj to know what was wrong with the guillotine, but the guy must have had success with it elsewhere, because he seemed confident with it. The guillotine guy lost and got his nose broken.

 

[Reyaj]

do you learn submissions from standing up?