Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Real Life Applications?

[WORKEROUTER]

The guard is a form of "damage control". If you have to be on the bottom, it's much better than being in a knee ride (knee on stomach), side control (opponent on top perpendicular to you), mount (opponent straddling your chest), or rear mount (opponent on your back with legs wrapped over your waist). I would NEVER purposely go to the guard in a real self defense situation but if I had to be on the bottom, the guard is the best position to be in.

From the guard, you have some control over your opponent's body and you have sweeps, submissions, you can transition to a better position (ie going around to the guy's back and choking him or just getting away) and it's a lot easier to get to your feet because you can use your legs to push the guy away and make space. You also have a much easier time defending against punches. From all other positions, your only option is to try to escape, and it's a lot harder and the other guy has a dominant position on you where he can go for submissions (unlikely in a self defense situation I think) or strikes.

The guard is only 1 part of BJJ though. Like Workerouter said, if you just want to train for self defense purposes you don't need to learn a lot of the "fancier" moves because those are mostly for use against people who have some training in BJJ, I highly doubt you're gonna run into a BJJ guy in a dark alley though. You would be amazed how well it works against someone who doesn't have any training though.

Probably the best things to study would be:

-escapes from the bottom
-controlling the opponent from the top (knee on stomach, mount)
-escaping the common chokes and holds (guillotine, bear hug, etc)
-throwing simple, quick, effective submissions from all angles

I've used BJJ on a couple occasions. One time I got caught with a barrage of drunken punches...quickly took him down with a double leg, went to mount, and proceeded with an arm bar. Other time I got bull run by a bigger guy trying to take me down...went down with him to the ground, locked my legs around him, guillotined him and arched my back up. One time I got caught in a guillotine by a guy while drunk. Used the basic trip escape and assumed a side mount escape, then applied a basic key lock.

 

[Reyaj]

Nice!

 

[Frenchconnection]

Probably the best things to study would be:

-escapes from the bottom
-controlling the opponent from the top (knee on stomach, mount)
-escaping the common chokes and holds (guillotine, bear hug, etc)
-throwing simple, quick, effective submissions from all angles

I've used BJJ on a couple occasions. One time I got caught with a barrage of drunken punches...quickly took him down with a double leg, went to mount, and proceeded with an arm bar. Other time I got bull run by a bigger guy trying to take me down...went down with him to the ground, locked my legs around him, guillotined him and arched my back up. One time I got caught in a guillotine by a guy while drunk. Used the basic trip escape and assumed a side mount escape, then applied a basic key lock.

So what happened when you did the arm bar stuff?

How do you get out of a guillotine?

 

[Latinoman]

The ONLY thing that works in very close quarters is not taught by anyone in regular classes...it is actually taught to special operatives type.

 

[Suicide]

The ONLY thing that works in very close quarters is not taught by anyone in regular classes...it is actually taught to special operatives type.

And what is that exactly?

 

[WORKEROUTER]

So what happened when you did the arm bar stuff?

How do you get out of a guillotine?

Arm bar was just the basic arm bar from the "triple threat position."

In order to escape the standing guillotine, you need to use your hand to lock onto his shoulder from the back, and try to move around a little bit to his back side, at which point you use your own knee to push or trip in his knee, simultaneously using your hand to pull his shoulder back, hence making him off balance. That drops you onto the ground at which you point you can easily attain side mount.

 

[speakeasy]

Arm bar was just the basic arm bar from the "triple threat position."

In order to escape the standing guillotine, you need to use your hand to lock onto his shoulder from the back, and try to move around a little bit to his back side, at which point you use your own knee to push or trip in his knee, simultaneously using your hand to pull his shoulder back, hence making him off balance. That drops you onto the ground at which you point you can easily attain side mount.

Dude this is so funny, in my MMA class just minutes ago, we were shown this very move for the first time.

 

[Reyaj]

Anyone else use BJJ in real life to defend themselves?

 

[spesmilitis]

I agree with this. It seems like BJJ is so ground focused it doesn't help your stand up or take down? Am I wrong and are there techniques for this?

There are priciples that apply to all forms of grappling. Get good on the ground and stand up priciples come more easily and vise versa. However, there is no substitude for doing the standup itself. Don't do stand up and you won't get good at stand up.

I keep in mind that the most dangerious street fighters and the ones who had martial arts experiance. Those guys are probably not very good; from what I've seen, the guys who get into street fights a lot are not dedicated enough to learn the intricies of fighting and just do it to exercise their aggressiveness.

For those type of fighters, a mix of bjj and stand up grappling is ideal. BJJ for when they try to pull a submission on you that they saw on UFC, and for also if they are on top (most common street fighter's martial art is wrestling since its offered in highschool). A good clinch game is better to nuetralize strikers. Look at boxing, there's a clinch every few seconds. A clinch is also harder to avoid than a leg takedown.

 

[spesmilitis]

Probably the best things to study would be:

-escapes from the bottom
-controlling the opponent from the top (knee on stomach, mount)
-escaping the common chokes and holds (guillotine, bear hug, etc)
-throwing simple, quick, effective submissions from all angles

I've used BJJ on a couple occasions. One time I got caught with a barrage of drunken punches...quickly took him down with a double leg, went to mount, and proceeded with an arm bar. Other time I got bull run by a bigger guy trying to take me down...went down with him to the ground, locked my legs around him, guillotined him and arched my back up. One time I got caught in a guillotine by a guy while drunk. Used the basic trip escape and assumed a side mount escape, then applied a basic key lock.

What did you do after the submissions? Let him go or break the joint?

I would hate to break someone's joint, but if they are let go, they might go back to fighting you again.

 

[Reyaj]

bump

 

[speakeasy]

You know, BJJ is some of the best stuff out there, but I can see why some people consider it gay! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qOI0x0dDn4

 

[Belisarius]

Bjj is extremely street effective. The fact is that if you know how to fight on the ground, and the other guy does not, you have an enormous advantage. Size doesn't really matter if the other guy doesn't know how to grapple. I know guys from my gym that weigh 130 pounds that can take down untrained 200 pound men without breaking a sweat. Unless the dude knows how to sprawl or guillotine, he's probably goin' down no matter what the weight difference is. Not to mention the fact that most guys think that street fights are about punching the other guy in the face and nothing else. Untrained guys don't expect a takedown and that's why they are so easy to land. If you have a good takedown, he probably wont be able to hit you at all before you get him to the ground. Once on the ground, you'll know what to do. He'll give you so many ****ing openings it will be like shooting fish in a barrel.
I've trained bjj for 3 years now and have had to use my skills twice during this time. Once I got into it with some jerk at a party. I said something he didn't like so he threw a beer bottle at me and charged. I got up and he did the overhand right with a duck and weave and I grabbed his head and guillotined him till he went to sleep. Second time I was cheap shotted and instinctively went for a double leg takedown, went immediately to side mount, mounted, when he tried to push me off I arm barred him. He was screaming. I asked if he'd had enough. He said yes. I let him go. The thing about bjj is that when you learn the submissions, you also learn to control them because you don't go all out when you get an armbar on one of you classmates. You get the move in place and slowly apply pressure till they tap. The difference with real life is that you apply pressure and in stead of waiting for the tapout, you ask if they've had enough. Another nice feature of Bjj is that, depending on which school you go to, you will probably be rolling 30-40% of the time. This is excellent for your confidence. You learn to use the moves in realtime. They are battle tested.
It is true that if you are fighting more than one person, Bjj shouldn't be your first line of defense. You can mount a guy all day but it isn't gonna do you any good if his buddy stomp kicks you in the back of the head. Some schools go over judo throws and one of those might knock out of the first guy, but if there are more than 2, you are probably screwed. As far as singular martial arts go, I'd say bjj and judo are the most street effective in 1 on 1 situations. Pair it with some striking and you will be a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Reyaj]

Bjj is extremely street effective. The fact is that if you know how to fight on the ground, and the other guy does not, you have an enormous advantage. Size doesn't really matter if the other guy doesn't know how to grapple. I know guys from my gym that weigh 130 pounds that can take down untrained 200 pound men without breaking a sweat. Unless the dude knows how to sprawl or guillotine, he's probably goin' down no matter what the weight difference is. Not to mention the fact that most guys think that street fights are about punching the other guy in the face and nothing else. Untrained guys don't expect a takedown and that's why they are so easy to land. If you have a good takedown, he probably wont be able to hit you at all before you get him to the ground. Once on the ground, you'll know what to do. He'll give you so many ****ing openings it will be like shooting fish in a barrel.
I've trained bjj for 3 years now and have had to use my skills twice during this time. Once I got into it with some jerk at a party. I said something he didn't like so he threw a beer bottle at me and charged. I got up and he did the overhand right with a duck and weave and I grabbed his head and guillotined him till he went to sleep. Second time I was cheap shotted and instinctively went for a double leg takedown, went immediately to side mount, mounted, when he tried to push me off I arm barred him. He was screaming. I asked if he'd had enough. He said yes. I let him go. The thing about bjj is that when you learn the submissions, you also learn to control them because you don't go all out when you get an armbar on one of you classmates. You get the move in place and slowly apply pressure till they tap. The difference with real life is that you apply pressure and in stead of waiting for the tapout, you ask if they've had enough. Another nice feature of Bjj is that, depending on which school you go to, you will probably be rolling 30-40% of the time. This is excellent for your confidence. You learn to use the moves in realtime. They are battle tested.
It is true that if you are fighting more than one person, Bjj shouldn't be your first line of defense. You can mount a guy all day but it isn't gonna do you any good if his buddy stomp kicks you in the back of the head. Some schools go over judo throws and one of those might knock out of the first guy, but if there are more than 2, you are probably screwed. As far as singular martial arts go, I'd say bjj and judo are the most street effective in 1 on 1 situations. Pair it with some striking and you will be a force to be reckoned with.

Good stuff dude! Thats the kind of feed back I was looking for. I have a couple of questions though.

1. Do you have a wrestling background? The thing is that I don't... so I don't know how to sprawl or do any other moves. I feel like I may have a hard time learning and being effective at BJJ without that background.


2. The biggest knock I am hearing on BJJ in a street fight or what not is that the ground is hard..... its not on the mats like you are in class. Does this limit its effectiveness?

3. I am trying to decide between BJJ and Judo. BJJ seems to have a more consistent win streak in MMA tournmanets than does Judo, but being that I lack wrestling maybe I should learn some throws...


Thanx!

 

[Belisarius]

I do have a wrestling background and it does help, but they will teach you takedowns at a good bjj school. In competition you start standing up so they aren't gonna send you into battle unequipped. In practice when you spar, you typically start on the ground, but they will at some point do some takedown work. Also since there are a lot of people with wrestling experience who do bjj, you shouldn't have any problems finding people to practice with after class. As far as the concrete goes, you're going to have so much adrenaline going through you that it wont make much of a difference. Practicing on a hard surface is uncomfortable as hell but you probably wont mind it in a fight. Worst case scenario you bruise/scratch up your knee up a little bit from the takedown. Judo is also an excellent choice and the concrete is the very thing that makes it so effective in street fights. Those throws can hurt on mats. On concrete or carpet and against a guy who doesn't know how to break his fall they would be devastating. A buddy of mine from Bjj is a national judo champion. He says he's knocked a lot of guys out in bar fights with his throws and I believe him.

The benefit of going with bjj is that it can put you in touch with the mma community. Many bjj schools also teach mma or muy thai. You could sign up for the bjj and go for a while and then sign up for their striking class to compliment your ground skills.

 

[jesusrules]

I dont practice it but the only way I think it could be effective would be if you actually got yourself into a gound fight. If its not for that forget it.

 

[Mr. Highroller]

i think the best combo would be sanshou(kickboxing mixed with judo throws) and bjj. Takedowns are the best way to end a fight. throw someone on the ground ands its game over.

 

[Reyaj]

bump

 

[bigjohnson]

The most effective combo has been PROVEN to be a handgun, training to use it and a cellphone.

 

[The Inside Man]

handguns take 1.5 seconds for an ace to draw and shoot, longer for average people. The accomplished martial artists strike is multiple times faster than a cobra strike-fractions of a second..saw it on national geographic! The window of opportunity is there at close range...