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Boundaries.. The Definitive Answer?

Danger

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Soolaimon said:
You are the one who thinks 1950's feminine, nurturing housewives are "icky" cause you are terrified of making your woman a 1950's housewife yourself.

Why don't you put a ring on your woman's finger and marry her since you like 1950's housewives so much?
Solly,

I haven't even responded to your other shaming post and here you are, making a SECOND post attacking me. What if find hilarious is that guru1000 answered all of your points (which have been addressed over and over again). But, you insist on attacking people instead of addressing the topics, as this so clearly demonstrates.

I would be more than happy to put a ring on her finger when the State removes it's misandric court system from the process.

What you are too stupid to understand is that the boundary isn't mean to prevent her from cheating or changing, it is meant to make sure you are committing to a girl who has the same values as you, and to clearly communicate your expectations.

This makes your marriage argument irrelevant. But of course, you know that. You are just too much of a pu$$y to address the arguments and instead only attack people.


The real issue is why you are so frightened to verbalize your expectations? What about this scares you so much?

You would commit to a woman without her even knowing what exclusivity means. Yet we have Peaks, Exception, Backbreaker and LondonTowers ALL with examples of fiancés hanging out with other men.

By your definition they are all low value. Of course, we all know that is bull$hit, but because you are too scared to talk about those cases it keeps getting left out of your posts in preference of your usual feminist agenda.....attacking people instead of the argument. Coward on.


Here is guru's take on the matter, which is absolutely excellent. We ALL have boundaries, your issue is only in the communicating of them. Why are you so terrified of communicating your expectations? Have you always been afraid of telling women what you expect of them if they are to be admitted into your life?



guru1000 said:
The boundary argument is misplaced. All DJs set boundaries: whether overt or covert such as takeaways, walking away, detracting attention for poor behavior, rewarding for good behavior, or any action in response to her action. The foregoing, although covert, are boundaries.

If a contender:
  • leaves the light as she exits the bathroom in your house; if she sees you irritated as you get up to shut the light off—that’s a boundary. She understands you don’t like that behavior.
  • shows up 15 min late, and sees an irritated expression on your face as she enters your car; that's a boundary.
  • texts at the dinner table, and you respond by leaving her at the table to take a one-hour sh*t; that's a boundary.
  • fails to say "Thank you" after you pay for a drink/dinner; and you takeaway in response, that's a boundary.

Guess what, the aforementioned behavior may not bother you, but you will run into myriads of contexts where a contender behaves in ways that will irritate you. You cannot elude the simple fact that you will be irritated sooner or later; when you do--and you react/respond--that's a boundary.

Accordingly, the central tenet is not whether to set boundaries as we all do, most often unconsciously; rather, it is whether to set boundaries OVERTLY or COVERTLY. An effective DJ employs both dependent on the context.

Danger’s position is simple. If a girl makes an OVERT request for exclusivity, if you wish to and before you accede, you OVERTLY respond by stating your expectations. She wants to trap you in a cage and capitulate your harem. But in surrendering your harem, what value do you get in return? Think about it. It’s a bad proposition. But at least Danger has the gonads to demand compliance to ALL his expectations should he elect to make that sacrifice. And as Danger is a seasoned vet of higher value, I guarantee that his contender's IL will remain high, and that she will accede to all his boundaries without the grievance of disheveled misunderstandings/confusion as she was "unaware" of his idiosyncrasies.

My OVERT boundaries in ALL my past relations have never been violated. The contenders have always complied; and when I grew uninterested, they were dumped.

The counterclaim that a contender won’t respect boundaries if she has low interest belies the rudimentary premise that if a girl requests exclusivity of her own accord, she already holds high IL. The boundaries are imposed to alleviate all ambiguity in quotidian interactions as not to waste future time reacting/responding every time the contender behaves in manners in which you don't appreciate.

The counterclaim that boundaries are useless ignores that a DJ’s expectations, whether overt or covert, will be known sooner or later, irrespectively, as you spend more time with the contender.

The counterclaim that a contender should already know and comply to your expectations else you walk away is laughable. We are all idiosyncratic; accordingly, we have disparate expectations.
 

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The411

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Danger said:
Solly,

I haven't even responded to your other shaming post and here you are, making a SECOND post attacking me. What if find hilarious is that guru1000 answered all of your points (which have been addressed over and over again). But, you insist on attacking people instead of addressing the topics, as this so clearly demonstrates.

I would be more than happy to put a ring on her finger when the State removes it's misandric court system from the process.

What you are too stupid to understand is that the boundary isn't mean to prevent her from cheating or changing, it is meant to make sure you are committing to a girl who has the same values as you, and to clearly communicate your expectations.

This makes your marriage argument irrelevant. But of course, you know that. You are just too much of a pu$$y to address the arguments and instead only attack people.


The real issue is why you are so frightened to verbalize your expectations? What about this scares you so much?

You would commit to a woman without her even knowing what exclusivity means. Yet we have Peaks, Exception, Backbreaker and LondonTowers ALL with examples of fiancés hanging out with other men.

By your definition they are all low value. Of course, we all know that is bull$hit, but because you are too scared to talk about those cases it keeps getting left out of your posts in preference of your usual feminist agenda.....attacking people instead of the argument. Coward on.


Here is guru's take on the matter, which is absolutely excellent. We ALL have boundaries, your issue is only in the communicating of them. Why are you so terrified of communicating your expectations? Have you always been afraid of telling women what you expect of them if they are to be admitted into your life?


Tictac said:
Soolie's never been laid.

He's far too confused to even talk to a woman.

Sooliaman's Troll-iman "debate" style is extremely similar to PlayHer_Man's troll 'debate' style. Two easy to spot KJ's. I wouldn't be surprised if Sooli is Playher.

Making vague general statements to dance around endlessly.

Projecting, assuming, and tossing out negative traits etc. when losing a debate trying to flame to incite anger in their opponent and appear to be "winning".

Looking for "support" in kissing up to "yes men" as "examples" of "proof" they are "correct".

It's a troll tactic Playher would do during 'debates' and Sooli does the exact same thing. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same dude.
 

Peaks&Valleys

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The411 said:
Sooliaman's Troll-iman "debate" style is extremely similar to PlayHer_Man's troll 'debate' style. Two easy to spot KJ's. I wouldn't be surprised if Sooli is Playher.

....


It's a troll tactic Playher would do during 'debates' and Sooli does the exact same thing. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same dude.
Sherlock Holmes back at it again.

Playherman is Sooliaman? You can't be serious.
 
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The411

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Peaks&Valleys said:
Sherlock Holmes back at it again.

Playherman is Sooliaman? You can't be serious.
Dude uses the same style of round and round. Many of the same tactics PHM used, vague generalizations, projecting, etc.

No need to get upset dude.

I mean you gotta admit dude you "may" have a different IP than Zarky but NorCal (change to nowhere and everywhere) Zarky claims he's a constant drifter from SoCal, both join dates are in April, a year apart, and you've posted in many of Zarky's threads. Maybe it's just a coincidence.
 

jurry

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While i will concede the soolaimon vs all arguments are much more entertaining, i did go to 5 minutes of typing while on the shîtter making some damn good points on the last page that youve all ignored. Show me some goddamn respect.
 
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The reality is... You never know.. So finding someone with a similar moral compass as you is the key.
 

Danger

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jurry said:
While i will concede the soolaimon vs all arguments are much more entertaining, i did go to 5 minutes of typing while on the shîtter making some damn good points on the last page that youve all ignored. Show me some goddamn respect.

Jurry,

Guru addressed all of your points in his post.




guru1000 said:
The boundary argument is misplaced. All DJs set boundaries: whether overt or covert such as takeaways, walking away, detracting attention for poor behavior, rewarding for good behavior, or any action in response to her action. The foregoing, although covert, are boundaries.

If a contender:
  • leaves the light as she exits the bathroom in your house; if she sees you irritated as you get up to shut the light off—that’s a boundary. She understands you don’t like that behavior.
  • shows up 15 min late, and sees an irritated expression on your face as she enters your car; that's a boundary.
  • texts at the dinner table, and you respond by leaving her at the table to take a one-hour sh*t; that's a boundary.
  • fails to say "Thank you" after you pay for a drink/dinner; and you takeaway in response, that's a boundary.

Guess what, the aforementioned behavior may not bother you, but you will run into myriads of contexts where a contender behaves in ways that will irritate you. You cannot elude the simple fact that you will be irritated sooner or later; when you do--and you react/respond--that's a boundary.

Accordingly, the central tenet is not whether to set boundaries as we all do, most often unconsciously; rather, it is whether to set boundaries OVERTLY or COVERTLY. An effective DJ employs both dependent on the context.

Danger’s position is simple. If a girl makes an OVERT request for exclusivity, if you wish to and before you accede, you OVERTLY respond by stating your expectations. She wants to trap you in a cage and capitulate your harem. But in surrendering your harem, what value do you get in return? Think about it. It’s a bad proposition. But at least Danger has the gonads to demand compliance to ALL his expectations should he elect to make that sacrifice. And as Danger is a seasoned vet of higher value, I guarantee that his contender's IL will remain high, and that she will accede to all his boundaries without the grievance of disheveled misunderstandings/confusion as she was "unaware" of his idiosyncrasies.

My OVERT boundaries in ALL my past relations have never been violated. The contenders have always complied; and when I grew uninterested, they were dumped.

The counterclaim that a contender won’t respect boundaries if she has low interest belies the rudimentary premise that if a girl requests exclusivity of her own accord, she already holds high IL. The boundaries are imposed to alleviate all ambiguity in quotidian interactions as not to waste future time reacting/responding every time the contender behaves in manners in which you don't appreciate.

The counterclaim that boundaries are useless ignores that a DJ’s expectations, whether overt or covert, will be known sooner or later, irrespectively, as you spend more time with the contender.

The counterclaim that a contender should already know and comply to your expectations else you walk away is laughable. We are all idiosyncratic; accordingly, we have disparate expectations.


Additionally,


The point of many filters is not about "needing" to, it is about being pre-emptive.

There are many things in my life I don't "need" to do, but I choose to do them because it is easier than to take the risk and deal with the consequences of NOT doing them.

Sure chances are she already understands what exclusivity means. If that is the case, what is the big deal about defining it overtly when she requests it of you?

And again, I cite that Peaks, Exception, backbreaker and LondonTower ALL have examples of women who do not understand the definition.

These examples, your point that a woman should already know, and my experience all point conclusively that it should be defined because there is absolutely no cost involved, especially for a high-value man.
 

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jurry said:
Let me break this down as SIMPLY as possible, because there is a whole lot of bs being twisted around here.

Basically there are two separate and vastly different points here.

The first one is that a man with value has to have boundaries. No one is disagreeing with this. There is certain behavior and actions which may take place that a man will simply walk away because he has options and doesnt need it. There is a little grey area here because some men would choose to correct the behavior and keep seeing her while some men would have zero tolerance and just walk. It really depends on the severity of it, you really shouldnt be putting up with any significant red flags early on.

The second point is completely different. It is saying that when a woman pushes for exclusivity, you should lay out exactly what that means and what you expect of her going forward.

To me and some others this is very bizarre. To put it as bluntly as I can, if I felt that I needed to explain what exclusivity means to the girl, I would not be agreeing to be exclusive with her. You should not ever be agreeing to exclusivity to a girl who you obviously have some hangups over. This is why anti dump says you buy a relationship you dont build it. The whole multi month process of dating and getting to know her is for this very reason, to figure if and where she fits in your life.

THEN, when she asks for exclusivity, and assuming she has ALREADY met your criteria, saying yes to her is a trivial, quick conversation. Its already been established over months. The only scenario where you would feel inclined to go into this big boundary and exclusivity discussion at that time would be if she hadnt met your expectations, in which case the answer should be NO. Either way no disussion is needed.

If you start that whole "women dont know what they want they have to be dominated and told what to do" thing, there is some truth to that yes.. But not on the scale of trying to change a girl into what you want her to be at the beginning of the relationship, that is a recipe for disaster.. You buy the girl, you dont build her.
^ So my take out of the boundary situation follows pretty much what Jurry said here.

First you must be a straight up alpha, powerful in your world, rid yourself of insecurities and are HIGH VALUE and know it. If you don’t start from this position.. go back to the drawing board.

Next.. because you are a DJ, you are spinning multiple plates, creating a feedback loop into your sense of HIGH SELECTIVITY. Now you have multiple plates and you are having fun with them, seducing them, making them addicted to you like crack cocaine. Lovey. BUT.. during this process which could take few months you are also SCREENING them. This screening is where both of your definitions of what exclusivity and boundaries come from.

Your subtitling PROJECT what you EXPECT and what she is prepared to DELIVER in order for you to exclusive with her. Now out of your multiple plates, a bunch of these expectations will be different and you simply will not go exclusive.. but if one plate has the same definitions of what exclusivity is, then when she asks to go exclusive and you agree, there will be no BETA conversation where you are explaining to her what boundaries you expect, as your whole dating process over the last few months has been about screening and projecting this already, hence you now satisfied to consider exclusivity.

THUS.. now you are in an exclusive relationship, you are both on the same page, you have mutual expectations. She will fear losing you to step out of line of what she projected to you to make you accept exclusivity in the first place. If she starts to break these lines early on which might happen as form of sh1t testing.. you walk away. But if you did the perfect dance in those first few months leading up to exclusivity, she will already be very aware of your ability to walk away and she will not risk even testing you.

I think there needs to be a guideline in how to PROJECT and SCREEN in subtle ways during the first few months before exclusivity these expectations. There is no way you can start enforcing anything later on. In fact, I believed the months before exclusivity are perhaps the most important component in a successful LTR.. you fuk this up, then your relationship will fall apart down the line one way or another. Also, you must remain Alpha, DJ, High Value forever in your relationship, because that is what the girl signed up for and if you start slipping in this, expect her to break all kinds of boundaries because you didn’t stand by your side of the deal.

End of the day exclusivity is: You drop your plates.. She drops her orbiters. A mutual sacrifice because you both provide enough for each other. The art is to SCREEN and PROJECT these fundamentals PRE any talk of exclusivity.
 

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The411 said:
Dude uses the same style of round and round. Many of the same tactics PHM used, vague generalizations, projecting, etc.

No need to get upset dude.
:cheer:


I'm going to entertain you here.
I mean you gotta admit dude you "may" have a different IP than Zarky but NorCal (change to nowhere and everywhere) Zarky claims he's a constant drifter from SoCal
Yeah.....so?

both join dates are in April, a year apart
Okay, is that when people usually sign up with a 2nd username? A year? They just happen to think: "Well, it's been a year, time for a new username on sosuave." Is it like a one year "itch": I'm getting tired of that same old tired boring username, it's just not doing it for me any more. Time for a new one!

and you've posted in many of Zarky's threads.
I have? I know I've posted in a lot of people's threads. I didn't know you were keeping tabs on Zarky's. Well, if Zarky was my 2nd username, then don't you think I wouldn't post in his threads? Just so geniuses like yourself wouldn't catch on? Or no?

Maybe it's just a coincidence.
I don't know man, with that mountain of evidence I wouldn't be so sure.

Maybe you should try looking at what each of the parties actually write, you know, how they think, what they value, their beliefs....that kind of stuff. That might further help in your investigations :up:
 

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Peaks&Valleys said:
:cheer:


I'm going to entertain you here.

Yeah.....so?


Okay, is that when people usually sign up with a 2nd username? A year? They just happen to think: "Well, it's been a year, time for a new username on sosuave." Is it like a one year "itch": I'm getting tired of that same old tired boring username, it's just not doing it for me any more. Time for a new one!


I have? I know I've posted in a lot of people's threads. I didn't know you were keeping tabs on Zarky's. Well, if Zarky was my 2nd username, then don't you think I wouldn't post in his threads? Just so geniuses like yourself wouldn't catch on? Or no?


I don't know man, with that mountain of evidence I wouldn't be so sure.

Maybe you should try looking at what each of the parties actually write, you know, how they think, what they value, their beliefs....that kind of stuff. That might further help in your investigations :up:
If it wasn't me I'd say it wasn't me not attempt to go into some explaination of why it possibly isn't me. Zarky has been known for multiple usernames. And who's to say it hasn't been done before to up their post count limit or have two seperate "trains of thought" accounts.

Don't worry about it dude. It may just be a coincidence. lol :up:
 
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Peaks&Valleys

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The411 said:
Don't worry about it dude. It may just be a coincidence. lol :up:
I'm not worried about it dip $ hit. Is this more projection? Or do you just enjoy trying to be a $ hit starting dumb fvck with his head up buried his a $$?
 

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Peaks&Valleys said:
I'm not worried about it dip $ hit. Is this more projection? Or do you just enjoy trying to be a $ hit starting dumb fvck with his head up buried his a $$?

You're trying to hard. Relax bro. You aren't Zarky ok.
 

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Think this question is some quantum problem that turns threads into a cycle of fractal madness.
 

Danger

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LondonTowers said:
First you must be a straight up alpha, powerful in your world, rid yourself of insecurities and are HIGH VALUE and know it. If you don’t start from this position.. go back to the drawing board.

Absolutely agree.

LondonTowers said:
Your subtitling PROJECT what you EXPECT and what she is prepared to DELIVER in order for you to exclusive with her. Now out of your multiple plates, a bunch of these expectations will be different and you simply will not go exclusive.. but if one plate has the same definitions of what exclusivity is, then when she asks to go exclusive and you agree, there will be no BETA conversation where you are explaining to her what boundaries you expect, as your whole dating process over the last few months has been about screening and projecting this already, hence you now satisfied to consider exclusivity.


I disagree with this. Beta's would never, ever, ever in a million years state any expectations of a girl before entering a relationship with her. This goes back to your first statement quoted above.

You must exude alpha and know your worth. Such men do not worry about "interest level going down" when they make their terms known. This is an inside out mindset. The proper mindset is to not give two $hits what she thinks of your terms. She can either live with them, or leave. Men do not "dance" around their expectations all in an effort to avoid a 30 second definition of exclusivity when she requests it.

Men, if you are still concerned about where her interest level resides, then you have not internalized inner-game yet. Concern over interest level is for people who are still faking-it-to-make-it. When you reach the plateau of options, you no longer need to do this. Your rules and expectations are gospel.
 

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The411 said:
Sooliaman's Troll-iman "debate" style is extremely similar to PlayHer_Man's troll 'debate' style. Two easy to spot KJ's. I wouldn't be surprised if Sooli is Playher.
I don't know if they are the same person, but PlayHerMan and Soolaimon do have one thing in common: They are the only two posters here that I decided to quit reading their posts, because it was clear it was a waste of my time and my life. Largely because, as you say, you can't discuss anything with them, there is no give and take, they just repeat the same thing over and over, and don't really address anything you say.

However, in PlayHerMan's case, it took me weeks to figure this out. With Soolaimon, it was about three posts.

jurry said:
This is why anti dump says you buy a relationship you dont build it. The whole multi month process of dating and getting to know her is for this very reason, to figure if and where she fits in your life.
See, now this is a valid point. If during the time when you are dating, she reveals what her views on exclusivity are, there is no reason to discuss the boundary. As I said in another post, there are three types of women:

1) Women who want their male friends and orbiters and will not give them up.
2) Women who do not believe hanging out with opposite sex friends in an exclusive relationship is a good idea.
3) Women who don't really care one way or the other.

#1 Women are eliminated from contention immediately (for me). My ex-wife happened to be a #2 type of woman, she was raised very similarly as I was, and we had the same attitude about it.

My current girlfriend was a #3 type, she had some orbiters. But she was a very cool chick and her interest in me was sky high, so she wanted to be my girlfriend. I told her I would never have a girlfriend who hung out with male friends. She was a little surprised about this because her former boyfriend believed in having opposite sex friends. But seeing as he had also ended up CHEATING ON HER, she realized the wisdom of my point of view and quickly adopted it herself. After all, I was older, wiser, more experienced, and she was absolutely crazy about me.

Point is, some girls can use a little guidance, and are worth tweaking a little bit. Anti-Dump's material is good, but you can't take all this PUA stuff as being written in stone. It should be viewed as guidelines at most. What Anti-Dump doesn't address is that if you are a high value man, girls will take a little guidance from you - in fact, they will love and embrace it.

Now you can say that what I said can't work, but it's worked great for me, we've been together 11 years now without a hiccup. The proof is in the pudding.
 
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