"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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Body Types that Most Women Favor

Abbott

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I know perfectly well that the great majority of posters here are straight men, so I'm not expecting you to tell me what kind of men are the hottest. However, this is something that I can reasonably expect many of you here to know.

One question that I've sometimes asked women (after it's pretty clear that I can't possibly hook-up with them) is along the lines of "What's your physical type?" Then I ask something like "Think most women think the same way you do?" Not all the women I asked that question had the same body type. Some were big, some were smaller (though still larger than I am). I haven't asked any women who were smaller than I was, but women like that seem to be rarer than 1976 quarters (has the drummer instead of the eagle on the tail side).

The most common response I get is that they don't like thin or small men, and that most women think that way.

I've also asked some of my friends this, and they've said similar things. However I can't help but think they're biased because they're fairly large.

Whenever anyone says something like what was said above, my argument is "What about 'Thin is in,' and 'Fat is not where it's at?' C'mon, you must know that's what society says."

QUESTION:
So what I wonder is who is in the right here? Me, who thinks "Thin is in," or them?

If I'm right, then they're very different from most people.

If I'm wrong, then I must be in denial.

Talk to you soon,

Ben

P.S. Once a fat girl said to me that she didn't like thin men. I didn't say so out loud, but I thought WTF? You can't be in any position to complain, you're fat.
 

"I just moved here from Florida."

That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?

She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."

She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.

I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.

Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.

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MindOverMatter

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Almost every girl I know says she wants an athletic guy. The most common decription I heard of that basically means a guy that's cut, has muscles, but isn't big like a bodybuilder. That wouldn;t mean skinny, I guess it's a somewhere between an ectomorph and a mesomorph, but closer to an ecto.

Couple of girls told me that they don't like the bodybuilder look because it leaves nothing to the imagination, since they can tell he's built like an ox no matter what kind of outfit he wears. Whereas athletic guys on the other hand look normal with clothes on, but have a surprise package underneath.
 
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Who cares what they think if they have turned you down. Your only asking for more negative input.

Why destroy your own self-confidence and begging these questions?

Either she digs your or she doesn't. Nevermind trying to say you can change your body to what they are looking for cause if your short and fat you can always lose the blubber, but you can't grow 6 inches in height!!!

Work with what you have!

Avoid the constant slams to your self-esteem and don't EVER ask a woman this kinda question.

It also makes you look like a loser in HER eyes. Put yourself in a womans shoes for just a moment..."why would this dweeb be asking me this question?...dam what a loser" You see the train of thought.

She might be smiling in your face, but thinking this underneath.
 

JT47319

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Girls don't like to feeling like their hugging another girl when their actually hugging a GUY.
 

“The 22 Rules That Flip the Script With Women… And How You Can Use Them Tonight”

Most guys accidentally kill attraction before they even speak. They assume they need a bigger bank account, a better physique, or smoother lines. They miss the point.

Female desire operates on a specific set of psychological triggers.  Break them, and you're invisible. Follow them, and you become magnetic.

I learned this the hard way. Years of freezing up. Getting friend-zoned. Watching other guys walk away with the girl I wanted. Then I discovered a set of 22 simple rules that rewired my entire approach.

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Abbott

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Originally posted by MindOverMatter Almost every girl I know says she wants an athletic guy. The most common decription I heard of that basically means a guy that's cut, has muscles, but isn't big like a bodybuilder. That wouldn;t mean skinny, I guess it's a somewhere between an ectomorph and a mesomorph, but closer to an ecto.

Couple of girls told me that they don't like the bodybuilder look because it leaves nothing to the imagination, since they can tell he's built like an ox no matter what kind of outfit he wears. Whereas athletic guys on the other hand look normal with clothes on, but have a surprise package underneath.
*Sigh* I see that in Canada it's not much different.

Thanks anyway.


Originally posted by Metaphysikal_Lover
Who cares what they think if they have turned you down. Your only asking for more negative input.
First of all, I won't ask the question unless it's fairly obvious that I won't be hooking up with them (they not being interested, or not being my type). I figure why not ask since any woman will have female friends and thus will probably have some idea. Plus, if they don't like me "in that way," it's easier for them to tell the truth, since they won't care if they hurt my feelings or not (I don't get hurt, BTW. I've been told many a thing.). It's possible that they might use the opportunity to try to make me feel bad, but I don't think so because not every girl I talk to can possibly think that way.

Originally posted by Metaphysikal_Lover
Why destroy your own self-confidence and begging these questions?

Either she digs your or she doesn't. Nevermind trying to say you can change your body to what they are looking for cause if your short and fat you can always lose the blubber, but you can't grow 6 inches in height!!!
I'm not going to change anything just because some girl will like it better some other way. However, I think it's fair to ask just how tough a road I have ahead of me.

If most women don't like my body type, then I think it's fair for me to want to know. Then I'd know that I'd have to work it much harder.

Originally posted by Metaphysikal_Lover
Work with what you have!
Okay

Originally posted by Metaphysikal_Lover
It also makes you look like a loser in HER eyes. Put yourself in a womans shoes for just a moment..."why would this dweeb be asking me this question?...dam what a loser" You see the train of thought.

She might be smiling in your face, but thinking this underneath.
So? What would it matter? I've said before that I won't ask this question to a girl unless A) I already know she's not interested, or B) she's not my type.

If it can't work out, then why should I care if she thinks I'm a loser or not?

Originally posted by JT47319Girls don't like to feeling like their hugging another girl when their actually hugging a GUY.
Really? And how would a hug from me be similar to having a hug from a girl? Women have boobies, I don't.

Originally posted by |Y|asTer girls love a body like usher's or the guys on abercrombie bags
I'm not familiar.

What do they look like?

And yes, I've heard of Usher. I just haven't ever seen a picture of him.

I've also never shopped at A&F so I don't know what their bags look like (we don't even have one here).


To All:

Thanks for what you've all said. Keep'em coming!


Ben
 

JT47319

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Originally posted by Abbott
Really? And how would a hug from me be similar to having a hug from a girl? Women have boobies, I don't.
If someone you're hugging, kino-ing, etc. is thin, soft, etc. That's a feminine body. That's NOT a turn on for a woman.

For a guy, it's not a turn to feel up a woman that's super-fat or built like a bodybuilder. Just like why women prefer men with height, they want to feel feminine and not be the "dominant" or overpowering one.

Simple yin and yang. If a woman is super feminine, then she needs a man who is as equally masculine.
 

DJStudent

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They type of body girls tend to favor the most is one that isn't too built or cut. I've had a number of girls complain to me about being too cut because it makes them feel insecure. Like when they hug me, they say all the can feel is hard mucsle which in return makes them feel fat.

Although it is better to be to cut than to look like a body builder. A balance is always nice.
 

jakethasnake

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Honestly, anything around Brad Pitt's size in Fight Club is MORE than enough for most ladies. Trim, slim, but also muscular. Anything bigger, is just icing on the cake, as is the degree of vasculairty and 'cutness'.


Guy harp on and on about how important it is to be HUGE and call Brad Pitt a 'skinny bytch', but that's just male competitivenss and male body dymorphism doing the talkiing.



Just be moderately muscular, and also lean.
 

Fatality

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Originally posted by MindOverMatter


Couple of girls told me that they don't like the bodybuilder look because it leaves nothing to the imagination, since they can tell he's built like an ox no matter what kind of outfit he wears. Whereas athletic guys on the other hand look normal with clothes on, but have a surprise package underneath.
That might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
 

"I just moved here from Florida."

That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?

She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."

She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.

I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.

Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.

Read more...

Abbott

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Originally posted by JT47319
If someone you're hugging, kino-ing, etc. is thin, soft, etc. That's a feminine body. That's NOT a turn on for a woman.

For a guy, it's not a turn to feel up a woman that's super-fat or built like a bodybuilder. Just like why women prefer men with height, they want to feel feminine and not be the "dominant" or overpowering one.

Simple yin and yang. If a woman is super feminine, then she needs a man who is as equally masculine.
OK...I that makes some sense. Goodness knows, I don't want a 300 lb porker of a woman.

I was talking more about thin vs. large for men. For me, height probably isn't an issue, since I'm 5'7".

I know many people think I'm thin, and then I get told that women don't favor thin men, so...

Say, could this be why that when I go out with friends who are large, they seem to have better success than I do, even though I'm probably more of a DJ than they are and that they can stand to lose some weight?

Also, when you talk about being dominant, are you talking about physical strength or personality? Physically, I'd need a weapon to dominate over anyone. Personality-wise, I'm pretty dominant (which is harder because I'm smaller, but I seem to have "hairy guts" anyway).

Ben
 

Fatality

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Originally posted by Abbott
OK...I that makes some sense. Goodness knows, I don't want a 300 lb porker of a woman.

I was talking more about thin vs. large for men. For me, height probably isn't an issue, since I'm 5'7".

I know many people think I'm thin, and then I get told that women don't favor thin men, so...

Say, could this be why that when I go out with friends who are large, they seem to have better success than I do, even though I'm probably more of a DJ than they are and that they can stand to lose some weight?

Also, when you talk about being dominant, are you talking about physical strength or personality? Physically, I'd need a weapon to dominate over anyone. Personality-wise, I'm pretty dominant (which is harder because I'm smaller, but I seem to have "hairy guts" anyway).

Ben
At 5'7 you are pretty short. Hit the gym and build up your muscles. That is the best way to make up for lack of height and make you look more dominant.
 

Abbott

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Fatality: I'll keep that in mind.

So I get the impression that women really honest-to-goodness don't favor thinner men?

That's OK. I'm sure it'll still be possible for me to work it, even if it'll be a little harder.

I just wanted to know how many women feel that way, and to see how much harder I can expect to have to work it.

Ben
 

Fatality

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Originally posted by Abbott
Fatality: I'll keep that in mind.

So I get the impression that women really honest-to-goodness don't favor thinner men?

That's OK. I'm sure it'll still be possible for me to work it, even if it'll be a little harder.

I just wanted to know how many women feel that way, and to see how much harder I can expect to have to work it.

Ben
Some women do favor thinner men. Use whatever look you want, it's just my opinion that a muscular guy will look better than a thinner guy.
 

Engetsu

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Originally posted by Abbott
For me, height probably isn't an issue, since I'm 5'7".
It is.
 

"Stop Asking Your Friends What to Text Her"

Your buddy Dave has been single for three years and thinks "hey u up" is a valid strategy. Your other buddy Mike just got dumped and told you to "just be yourself."

You showed them her text. You asked them to decode the emoji. You drafted four responses and sent the screenshot to the group chat for a vote.

She's been waiting forty minutes.

Put the phone down. Stop crowdsourcing your love life. Type something that sounds like you. Hit send. Then go do literally anything else with your evening.

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Abott your asking this of women for the purpose of? You just don't see what your doing to yourself with your own insecurity in charge.

This whole line of questioning is based on your insecurities. Look at how you answered me and what you said about yourself.

No normal secure man would ask women this kinda questioning.

Plus your putting too much energy into what women think of YOU...instead of reversing the game and make them think what you think of them

You will always be a begger at the plate until you reverse the table.

You can either crawl into a resturant and wait for a handout or you can walk in like a king and be served!

Nevermind your excuses for continuing this line of questioning. I've tried to show you the truth so now I will just STFU!
 

Abbott

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Originally posted by Engetsu
Originally posted by Abbott
For me, height probably isn't an issue, since I'm 5'7".
It is.
Really? The average woman is 5'4", ya know. If I'm taller than most women, then what's so bad?


Originally posted by Metaphysikal_Lover
Abott your asking this of women for the purpose of? You just don't see what your doing to yourself with your own insecurity in charge.

This whole line of questioning is based on your insecurities. Look at how you answered me and what you said about yourself.

No normal secure man would ask women this kinda questioning.

Plus your putting too much energy into what women think of YOU...instead of reversing the game and make them think what you think of them

You will always be a begger at the plate until you reverse the table.

You can either crawl into a resturant and wait for a handout or you can walk in like a king and be served!

Nevermind your excuses for continuing this line of questioning. I've tried to show you the truth so now I will just STFU!
Ya know...after thinking about it, I think you're right.

In public, I try my best to act like the sh|t, and to be awesome and all that. I've had people call me an ass, which I'm proud of (it's better than being a nice guy).

What I don't tell people is that I'm sometimes concerned with crap I probably shouldn't be worried about. However it's just not a good feeling. Honestly, I've never had a relationship, or even gone on a date, so I don't even know how well I'll be able to do one. So I suppose that I have some insecurity there, and that I was somehow trying to justify my insecurity (which I shouldn't do, but did anyway).

Anyway, I think I'll quit talking about that now. Whining is for women. It's not the man thing to do. Since I'm a man, and I'm cool, I'll stop that now.

Ben
 

Evil-Rom

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Originally posted by Fatality
That might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Care to explain, Einstein?
 

Lifeforce

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Originally posted by Abbott
I know perfectly well that the great majority of posters here are straight men, so I'm not expecting you to tell me what kind of men are the hottest. However, this is something that I can reasonably expect many of you here to know.

One question that I've sometimes asked women (after it's pretty clear that I can't possibly hook-up with them) is along the lines of "What's your physical type?" Then I ask something like "Think most women think the same way you do?" Not all the women I asked that question had the same body type. Some were big, some were smaller (though still larger than I am). I haven't asked any women who were smaller than I was, but women like that seem to be rarer than 1976 quarters (has the drummer instead of the eagle on the tail side).

The most common response I get is that they don't like thin or small men, and that most women think that way.

I've also asked some of my friends this, and they've said similar things. However I can't help but think they're biased because they're fairly large.

Whenever anyone says something like what was said above, my argument is "What about 'Thin is in,' and 'Fat is not where it's at?' C'mon, you must know that's what society says."

QUESTION:
So what I wonder is who is in the right here? Me, who thinks "Thin is in," or them?

If I'm right, then they're very different from most people.

If I'm wrong, then I must be in denial.

Talk to you soon,

Ben

P.S. Once a fat girl said to me that she didn't like thin men. I didn't say so out loud, but I thought WTF? You can't be in any position to complain, you're fat.
The more good looking the girl is, it's less likely she will like thin men.
 

Ricky

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It really depends what you mean by thin.

I used to be real thin before working out. I might look a little thin now with clothes on due to narrow shoulders, but am muscular underneath (the surprise they mentioned).

Fat girls have mentioned they feel insecure around thin guys because they look that much bigger.
 

“The 22 Rules That Turned Me From Invisible to Irresistible With Women… Starting Tonight”

You can skip the expensive cars, the fancy clothes, and the endless gym selfies. Completely unnecessary.

I used to freeze the second a beautiful woman looked my way. Frustrated. Awkward. Watching other guys walk away with the girl while I stood there tongue-tied.

Then I discovered 22 simple rules that rewired my entire dating life. The anxiety vanished. Conversations flowed effortlessly. Women started chasing me for a change.

These rules trigger a woman's subconscious attraction switches. And you can start using them tonight.

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