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BLM, Racism, riots, entitlement's etc

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zekko

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If you intend to vouch for @Kotaix intent then I can unignore him. But first please read what I'm about to say, and re-confirm if you feel that I've mis-interpreted @Koitaix's post.
My intent wasn't to discuss Kotaix, it was to talk about victim mentality.
Anyway, just so I'm clear, yes racism exists, and yes racism exists in the US.
I do not think the country overall is racist, however. This is reflected in the laws, discrimination based on the color of someone's skin is illegal. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, of course, and I certainly don't mean to imply that black people do not face their own unique challenges. But I resist some of the more extreme efforts (especially) to paint the country as irredeemably evil and racist. Trying to turn this into a country where all the citizens loathe it does not strike me as a productive thing. Look at it as a matter of frame.

Racism can only be dealt with on an individual basis. It only exists on a practical level when two individuals (or more) meet. That's where it is encountered, and that's where it needs to be worked out. Your experiences with employment, were these experiences in Canada or the US, just out of curiosity? In any case, finding a job isn't easy. I've applied for countless jobs without getting them, but your only choice is to apply for the next one (or start your own business, which is popular on this forum), or to give up and curl up in a ball.
 

mickdollaz

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Racism in normal, natural and healthy. A simple glance tells us who is closely related to us genetically and therefore gives us some preliminary indication of who is trustworthy or not.

This of course is in lieu of actual communities based upon family and extended kinship ties. Every race and every nation engages in discriminatory, racially preferential behavior, favoring their own people over others.

How else would any nation survive? The US, attempting the exact opposite, is entering the depths of hell and despair.
 

corrector

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This is reflected in the laws, discrimination based on the color of someone's skin is illegal.
It depends on how the laws are applied. If it's applied in a heavy-handed by the letter / book way to black people but then in an easy way with kid-gloves with many, many chances treatment with whites, then that's discrimination. The police and the DAs office have allot of discretion on what charges they put on people and how they prosecute or if they prosecute at all. If this is done in a biased way then it undermines the legitimacy of the system as a whole and the laws because people can see that it's not being applied in a fair way.

zekko said:
Your experiences with employment, were these experiences in Canada or the US, just out of curiosity?
Canada.
 

mickdollaz

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Negroes are the biggest racists of all. They hate EVERYONE including themselves. This is why they are obsessed with the lightest skinned "black women" as exemplars of supposed "black beauty." Thandie Newton, Halle Berry, Rashida Jones, and so on. Basically, negroes admit that in order to beautiful, you have to have as little black blood as possible.

New Orleans' French Quarter was notorious for it's racism, with octaroons and quadroons favored over dark skinned negroes. Negro athletes either marry the lightest skinned black women or marry white women.

And yet negroes will burn down their own neighborhoods and everyone else's if whites despise negroes for completely legitimate reasons.

You just can't make this sh-t up.

That is not exactly true. And it’s veering off topic to be honest. Asian Americans by in large are sympathetic to BLM. And as I said pages back, while BLMs mission focuses on black people it includes all peoples including even white victims of police brutality.



Racists whites are the least credible on topics of race. The “model minority” myth is interesting, as the true model minority in the US is West African immigrants (who are black people).



Anti-black racism exists all over the world. As @Spaz has shown is, Asians can be hateful towards black people. But again, I think you’re veering off topic here.

BLMs mission includes all people but focuses on black people in the US, UK, and Canada - predominantly Western white countries with significant black communities and populations. It’s no “cop-out” to focus on the topic of discussion.
 

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Tyler Perry, famous Black director, shares his thoughts on CNN. Interesting points.
He does not want the police defunded but reformed.
He doesn't care about taking down statues.
He is troubled by the above issues, and the fact that the BLM protests is getting hijacked by other groups and is giving the right-wing ammunition against the movement.

Thought about @zekko's arguements with his points raised.
 

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Young Black lady lynched in her White roommate's garage. They call lynching "suicide" to cover their tracks. She was hanging there for three days while renovations were being made inside the home. She was from a South African immigrant.
 

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Further articles which support the idea that Black lynchings are deliberately covered-up as suicides as police are not interested in investigating these types of deaths as a hate crime. This is an overlooked issue of BLM and it's an issue dealing with how police are pursuing crimes when the murder victim is Black. Very sloppy police work to label homicides as suicides and just close the file with no investigations.
 

zekko

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Martin Luther King had a 75% disapproval rating on the day of his assassination. The attempt to whitewash his legacy is amusing. MLK would be considered a communist, BLM, Antifa radical in today’s society.
Don't be badmouthing MLK. I am not saying he was popular with the status quo back then, those were different times. But he was a great man, he was dedicated to nonviolent protest (which ultimately made it more effective IMO), and I can read his speeches and agree with them today. Unlike the BLM "What we believe" page. BLM has more in common with the Black Panthers of the 60s than MLK.

Those who advocate for peace are often murdered, unfortunately.
 

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Don't be badmouthing MLK. I am not saying he was popular with the status quo back then, those were different times. But he was a great man, he was dedicated to nonviolent protest (which ultimately made it more effective IMO), and I can read his speeches and agree with them today. Unlike the BLM "What we believe" page. BLM has more in common with the Black Panthers of the 60s than MLK.

Those who advocate for peace are often murdered, unfortunately.
That is not really fair. MLK seemed more focused on unjust Jim Crow segregationist laws, voter repression while Black Panthers was more focused against police violence, especially in areas that were not under Southern Jim Crow laws but had Northern discrimination in housing, employment, and how police treated blacks. You also have to take into account that while the system has changed to a more colour blind system, the strategies to keep Black people down without being having overtly unjust laws have also changed which would make that type of resistance obsolete.

In fact, a Black Panther would have prevented a George Floyd police murder from occurring in the first place, while the BLM is a non-violent movement that would video the cop and let the word get out.
 
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zekko

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MLK seemed more focused on unjust Jim Crow segregationist laws, voter repression while Black Panthers was more focused against police violence
Right.

You also have to take into account that while the system has changed to a more colour blind system, the strategies to keep Black people down without being having overtly unjust laws have also changed which would make that type of resistance obsolete.
Strategies to keep Black people down? I guess you're talking about the Democrats.

In fact, a Black Panther would have prevented a George Floyd police murder from occurring in the first place, while the BLM is a non-violent movement that would video the cop and let the word get out.
BLM is a "reportedly" non-violent movement, obviously there are people within who plan and engage in violence, or people who get caught up in the moment and engage in violence. And they are allied with other groups who plan and engage in violence, or at the very least have other violent groups allied with them, and provide cover for them, either intentionally or inadvertently.
 

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Strategies to keep Black people down? I guess you're talking about the Democrats.
No, I was talking more about the Southern Strategy adopted by the Republicans to win over white voters the Democrats lost during the civil rights movement, and in particular president Nixon and the War on Drugs strategy and the ushering of a new age of mass incarceration.

zekko said:
BLM is a "reportedly" non-violent movement, obviously there are people within who plan and engage in violence, or people who get caught up in the moment and engage in violence. And they are allied with other groups who plan and engage in violence, or at the very least have other violent groups allied with them, and provide cover for them, either intentionally or inadvertently.
Agreed. But that is not unlike other types of movements. Are you going to blame MLK for all the riots that followed in various cities after he was killed? Of course not. Just because violence follows after a non-violent movement (I'm not sure of the particulars of violence you are talking about) doesn't mean it's endorsed or promoted by the movement itself. You are phrasing it as though it is.

For the record, most violence I've heard about hitting the headlines are from the police antagonizing the protesters, federal troops coming in and throwing tear-gas at peaceful protesters in Washington so the president could do a photo-op and in Portland, or right-wing fanatics driving their cars through people. Whenever I hear of violence from protesters, it's usually really property being burned up or looted and I don't consider vandalism, looting, or burning up things to be violence.

Lets take the protests for Elijah Mccain. I'd say the police are like dogs against peaceful protesters and you had a car driving through them. Why are people so viciously triggered for to support police who bragged about murdering a nerd coming home from a convenience store?
 
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Means1988

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You do what is right in the sight of God / doing the right thing. The Golden rule, "love thy neighbour as thyself".



No, it's not that simple because lots of whites will join side with the black cause because of the direct or indirect effects on their own society. The past Civil War was mainly white vs white, it was not a Haitian revolution. What is grossly immoral against blacks starts seeping and effecting "white society", just like it did before the first Civil War. Portland is mainly white people taking up the BLM cause.



There are other races beside white and black. America has become more globalized. You also have to include Asians and Hapas since allot of whites are settling for asian gf/wives and creating a new hapa demographic.
I have nothing against blacks, I came in IS at 9 years old in 98. I didn’t own a single slave or my family.

I should kneel for black people? Do whatever?
How can I say a black male is stronger or better looking or smarter or whatever than me?

Is that racist?

I love my skin, my hair, my heritage, should I ever kneel for another race?
Nah.
 

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I have nothing against blacks, I came in IS at 9 years old in 98. I didn’t own a single slave or my family.

I should kneel for black people? Do whatever?
How can I say a black male is stronger or better looking or smarter or whatever than me?

Is that racist?

I love my skin, my hair, my heritage, should I ever kneel for another race?
Nah.
You should kneel to God who created all races. Do you have anything to contribute to the discussion at hand? Do you understand why people are taking a knee and what that symbolizes? Do you know what this thread is talking about? This is not a discussion of what race is better than another race but about human rights. Do you have a problem grasping that concept?

Nobody says you have to kneel or do anything. I dont kneel except when I am praying. You should make some sense if you want to say something so I have something to work with.
 

zekko

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Do you understand why people are taking a knee and what that symbolizes?.
Yes, it means that they think the flag and the country is not worth standing for. It's basically another form of burning the American flag.
 

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Yes, it means that they think the flag and the country is not worth standing for. It's basically another form of burning the American flag.
No they are intending to burn systemic racism and police brutality aspect of the country, not really anything else. The kind of stuff you are also opposed to (you believe in a fair and just society where people are judged on character rather than skin colour?)

You expected them to do that to a confederate battle flag instead? Would that make the message any more or less clear?
 
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zekko

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You expected them to do that to a confederate battle flag instead? Would that make the message any more or less clear?
There is no reason to involve a flag at all. Is there anyone on the entire planet who doesn't know that black people are objecting to police brutality? The NBA used to (and still do) come out to warm up in Black Lives Matter t-shirts, I think that's the first time I heard of it.

The kneeling comes from Colin Kaepernick, who according to him, one day he decided he wasn't going to stand for the flag, because the country was oppressing his people (never mind that this oppressive country was allowing him to earn millions of dollars playing quarterback). So he sat it out. Someone then told him maybe he should kneel because that was less disrespectful, so he did that, and others followed suit. The kneeling is because they don't think the country is worth standing for, because it's a racist oppressive country. At least be honest and own what you are doing.

This is the same Colin Kaepernick who said the 4th of July is a celebration of white supremacy. Kneeling for the anthem is the equivalent of burning the flag, and by the way I've seen plenty of protesters burning the flag during all this.
 

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There is no reason to involve a flag at all. Is there anyone on the entire planet who doesn't know that black people are objecting to police brutality? The NBA used to (and still do) come out to warm up in Black Lives Matter t-shirts, I think that's the first time I heard of it.
Do you know how BLM start? People are aware that black people (and others) are objecting to police but the problem is there is no political will TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT and people, who are not affected by this, are too comfortable in their bubble to care enough to do something about it. Even white people in relationships, friendships or good co-workers, or white parents who adopt black children in Africa or elsewhere, etc... are in for a difficult road because they don't even get their privileged position until they see first hand the anti-black racism is hurting their loved ones.

zekko said:
The kneeling comes from Colin Kaepernick, who according to him, one day he decided he wasn't going to stand for the flag, because the country was oppressing his people (never mind that this oppressive country was allowing him to earn millions of dollars playing quarterback).
Let me ask you a question. What is the benefit for Colin, if he is earning millions of dollars, if a police can stop his car on the road, draw his gun and just point it at him and potentially shoot him if he goes for his identification in this glove compartment? What rights does he really have? What is Colin's insurance that a racist cop won't take off his body-cam and make up excuses? So first of all, I don't believe Colin has any special privilege just because he is making allot of money because money doesn't buy privilege with black people. The police don't go, "Oh, let me see how much money is on his bank account before I shoot him", they just see "black".

I can think of two examples where football players were subjected to police violence. In a city near Toronto, Canada, a black man was beaten up by a couple cops and he had to quit football and end his career because of how badly he got beaten up.


Here is another article of a Football player who was profiled by Las Vagas police:

What was the benefit of being a football player, and earning millions of dollars, in these above cases?


zekko said:
This is the same Colin Kaepernick who said the 4th of July is a celebration of white supremacy. Kneeling for the anthem is the equivalent of burning the flag, and by the way I've seen plenty of protesters burning the flag during all this.
You are interpreting in kneeling for the anthem as burning a flag. I don't view kneeling as burning a flag so we have a difference of opinion. Kneeling is non-violent protest that sends a message. It says you are not proud of your country BECAUSE of this, not you hate your country.

Do you know how I view burning the flag? When people are killed by the police without having their day in court, or extra-judicial murders in a country that's supposed to be a beacon of democracy around the world? When other countries can mock the USA on how they treat black people, because of George Floyd and others, then that publicity didn't come from someone kneeling, it came from videos of police murders.
 
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EyeBRollin

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Don't be badmouthing MLK. I am not saying he was popular with the status quo back then, those were different times. But he was a great man, he was dedicated to nonviolent protest (which ultimately made it more effective IMO), and I can read his speeches and agree with them today. Unlike the BLM "What we believe" page. BLM has more in common with the Black Panthers of the 60s than MLK.

Those who advocate for peace are often murdered, unfortunately.
This is 100% objectively wrong. MLK was very much involved with organized labor and the dismantling of both white supremacy and capitalism. You are choosing to whitewash his history to fit your narrative.

John Lewis was the last remnant of his allies, and was very much supporter of BLM. MLK would be as well.
 
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