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Being sad or angry generates massive attraction

stormrider

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That's a line. You had the right attitude, and were spontaneous (I'm guessing). But it's the line and the compliment that did the real work, that got her to introduce you around. You were being easily sociable. Your attituse was attractive, but you still built the bridge. I usually find that guys who claim to be doing nothing are doing something.

Funny how you talked about how being content was attractive here, when that is the opposite of what the thread is saying.
When I say I have no game, I don’t mean that I have no personality. There is a difference. I show up with my built in personality. I am mindless and unconscious about it. Everything flows naturally from my state of being and there is no wheels turning in my head trying to create attraction with women. There is no contrived effort.

Just to be clear, I view “game” as contrived effort that takes you away from your core personality.

Like right now I don’t feel like I’m doing anything but having normal conversation. Some guys are contrived and purposely try to seek validation and “likes” on this forum. Incidentally, these guys have the same attitude with women and that’s why they fail. I don’t try to do anything but often achieve it anyway.

Believe it or not, your best game will always come from a place of emptiness. When you are out of your head and effortlessly being, you’ll end up projecting the right attitude without any effort, so it feels like you aren’t really trying to do anything but being your natural self. The whole night just really becomes a blur and you will barely remember what you said or how you hooked women.

I can understand why some people might be confused. I leave a lot of details out because I assume most people will get the gist like I said before.

I promote beingness over doingness. If your beingness is off, your doingness is irrelevant. Effortless beingness does not mean being inactive though. It just means there’re isn’t any contrived effort to create reactions out of women. It means you are being your natural self (whatever that looks like) and not reaction seeking. Unreactiveness, indifferent to women’s reactions , being oblivious to people’s reactions, and being content and spontaneous - it all means the same thing, really. Or rather, it all points to the same direction. And people who are successful with women generally point towards that same direction with a few minor differences in details and semantics.

The challenge is using the right words to convey what I am trying to communicate. I’m trying to use limited vocabulary to describe a natural state of being that we all have experienced one time or another. Sometimes I switch back and forth using different vernacular (like Pua terminology).

Sometimes in my social circles, I literally would not say anything. And women would be like “I haven’t heard you say a word in months” and I would just give them a shrug. That just happened to be the direction my personality decided to go.

Some guys might even look at that and think “ the brooding mysterious guy gets all the girls” and even develop an entire game ideology out of it and preach to guys to stop talking so much because it’s supposedly beta and feminine *coughs* (this thread).

In my mind, im just being whatever I am supposed to be at the moment without a care in the world for how the women perceive me. if I am high value to them, they will just rationalize I am mysteriously charming or something. Or maybe I’m a “cool rebel” who’s above social norms. She can think whatever she wants, lol. It’s just backwards rationalization. And puas take this backwards rationalization and create a religion out of it.
 
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mrgoodstuff

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When I say I have no game, I don’t mean that I have no personality. There is a difference. I show up with my built in personality. I am mindless and unconscious about it. Everything flows naturally from my state of being and there is no wheels turning in my head trying to create attraction with women. There is no contrived effort.

Just to be clear, I view “game” as contrived effort that takes you away from your core personality.

Like right now I don’t feel like I’m doing anything but having normal conversation. Some guys are contrived and purposely try to seek validation and “likes” on this forum. Incidentally, these guys have the same attitude with women and that’s why they fail. I don’t try to do anything but often achieve it anyway.

Believe it or not, your best game will always come from a place of emptiness. When you are out of your head and effortlessly being, you’ll end up projecting the right attitude without any effort, so it feels like you aren’t really trying to do anything but being your natural self. The whole night just really becomes a blur and you will barely remember what you said or how you hooked women.

I can understand why some people might be confused. I leave a lot of details out because I assume most people will get the gist like I said before.

I promote beingness over doingness. If your beingness is off, your doingness is irrelevant. Effortless beingness does not mean being inactive though. It just means there’re isn’t any contrived effort to create reactions out of women. It means you are being your natural self (whatever that looks like) and not reaction seeking. Unreactiveness, indifferent to women’s reactions , being oblivious to people’s reactions, and being content and spontaneous - it all means the same thing, really. Or rather, it all points to the same direction. And people who are successful with women generally point towards that same direction with a few minor differences in details and semantics.

The challenge is using the right words to convey what I am trying to communicate. I’m trying to use limited vocabulary to describe a natural state of being that we all have experienced one time or another. Sometimes I switch back and forth using different vernacular (like Pua terminology).

Sometimes in my social circles, I literally would not say anything. And women would be like “I haven’t heard you say a word in months” and I would just give them a shrug. That just happened to be the direction my personality decided to go.

Some guys might even look at that and think “ the brooding mysterious guy gets all the girls” and even develop an entire game ideology out of it and preach to guys to stop talking so much because it’s supposedly beta and feminine *coughs* (this thread).

In my mind, im just being whatever I am supposed to be at the moment without a care in the world for how the women perceive me. if I am high value to them, they will just rationalize I am mysteriously charming or something. Or maybe I’m a “cool rebel” who’s above social norms. She can think whatever she wants, lol. It’s just backwards rationalization. And puas take this backwards rationalization and create a religion out of it.
If she's not trying to fvck you are you going to waste alot of thought on her?
 

stringpuller

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This kind of contradicts the idea that women are attracted to emotion, because indifference is almost the lack of any emotion.

Women have it so easy in the attraction department, seems like most things work fairly intuitively for them. They just have to smile and be pleasant, and that attracts fine, just like you would expect. With guys, it seems like we are sent a lot of mixed messages - look angry, no - look sad, no - look ashamed. The secret to attracting women is to smile, no wait - don't smile, women aren't attracted to guys who smile, smiling is weak. Be happy, no - happy is boring, be unhappy. Be happy in your life, but don't look like you're happy. It's ridiculous really.
What he means is there is a core lesson in the fact that the girls you like the least chase you the hardest.
Now when it comes to a highly intelligent beautiful girl its the same paradox. You almost seem "gay" to them. Pook mentioned this in his book. When a sexy girl asks if your gay the horndog is on the right track. Lol

betas will quickly sexualize it to prove hes not rather then going with it and be even more coy. Blowing the load instead of building more attraction.

The issue is a guy can not have self control and blow his load to early. This should be the heart of your screening her.
I dont think that requires a mean or sad look i think OPs look and attitude took on the guise of "indifference" that led him to believe it was a certain look.

Indifference is that you may or may not see her as a potential mating partner.
 

zekko

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Unreactiveness, indifferent to women’s reactions , being oblivious to people’s reactions, and being content and spontaneous - it all means the same thing, really. Or rather, it all points to the same direction. And people who are successful with women generally point towards that same direction with a few minor differences in details and semantics.
I feel a little differently about this, and have since I first started reading seduction material. People keep focusing on being nonreactive, being indifferent, or being oblivious (as you put it). But this all falls under the same umbrella, you don't want to be over-eager, the IDGAF attitude, push/pull, the takeaways, all that stuff. Most everyone on this forum will tell you the same thing.

What interests me (and has always interested me) is the part that PUAs and everyone else seem to sweep under the rug. For instance, despite your denials, you appear to have a very flirty personality. If you didn't you wouldn't tell the girl you were obliviously standing behind that her hair smelled good. I'm more interested in aspects of personality that are attracting women instead of the usual takeaway stuff, because there are two aspects to push/pull, but all anyone ever seems to focus on is the push. I'm more interested in the pull. It astonishes me that people come to forums like this and hear "Be indifferent", and poof they're all "Wow! I'm a top three percenter now!".
 
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stormrider

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I feel a little differently about this, and have since I first started reading seduction material. People keep focusing on being nonreactive, being indifferent, or being oblivious (as you put it). But this all falls under the same umbrella, you don't want to be over-eager, the IDGAF attitude, push/pull, the takeaways, all that stuff. Most everyone on this forum will tell you the same thing.

What interests me (and has always interested me) is the part that PUAs and everyone else seem to sweep under the rug. For instance, despite your denials, you appear to have a very flirty personality. If you didn't you wouldn't tell the girl you were obliviously standing behind that her hair smelled good. I'm more interested in aspects of personality that are attracting women instead of the usual takeaway stuff, because there are two aspects to push/pull, but all anyone ever seems to focus on is the push. I'm more interested in the pull. It astonishes me that people come to forums like this and hear "Be indifferent", and poof they're all "Wow! I'm a top three percenter now!".
They are not totally wrong though. But I understand what you are getting at. You have to elevate your value through the roof. Or at least be the best you can be. And indifference is part of it. It gives off a non needy and abundant vibe.

Now once you achieve that value, the next step is to make yourself attainable. This is where a lot of guys get confused. They think women are sh1t testing them. But in reality, women are actually negging them to knock them off their pedestal to get their attention.

First you become high value. Then you make yourself attainable, otherwise women will neg you.

Im glad you brought this up because I’ve had many guys send me messages saying the same things like “Man I don’t get it. First I became high value. And now women are sh1t testing me left and right, making my social life miserable and my work life awkward.”

And I would tell them, it’s not a sh1t test. These women just want your attention, but because you come across as so dominant, they instinctively try to knock you down a few Pegs, but they never thought they could ever have an emotional effect on such a dominant guy like yourself. So for you to react negatively to it would actually betray your own emotional unreactiveness/dominance.

So I would tell them to be more attainable by showing more appreciation.

Remember, only when she perceives you as high value can you get away with showing interest and making yourself look attainable. The problem is most guys are stuck in the low value phase which is why no one ever talks about what you do after you become high value.

So the natural order is become high value -> show attainability —> get seduced by women.

Otherwise it would look like become high value -> get negged left and right and thinking they are sh1t tests -> battle of the sexes, women hate me for being high value, woe is me.

If I were to go into Pua mode, it would be value -> atttainability-> reflex compliance. Meaning she complies to you out of pure reflex that was created by your value.
 
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zekko

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They are not totally wrong though.
I'm not saying they're wrong at all. I'm saying it's obvious. Not obvious to newbie blue pillers who come here, perhaps. But certainly once you take the red pill, indifference being attractive should not come as any news at all. Almost the entirety of seduction/PUA material is based on the idea. So the question then becomes okay, what next? Which you at least tried to address here.

Especially for someone like me, who has never had an issue with being indifferent (except when I was very young). If anything, my problem has always been that I'm too aloof.
 

corrector

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On the other hand, maybe the girls thought the OP looked sad or angry because he was alone. Maybe they thought he needed some company.
That's still lookism. If the looks are not good enough, then they think the guy is a loser and something is wrong with him.
 

stormrider

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I'm not saying they're wrong at all. I'm saying it's obvious. Not obvious to newbie blue pillers who come here, perhaps. But certainly once you take the red pill, indifference being attractive should not come as any news at all. Almost the entirety of seduction/PUA material is based on the idea. So the question then becomes okay, what next? Which you at least tried to address here.

Especially for someone like me, who has never had an issue with being indifferent (except when I was very young). If anything, my problem has always been that I'm too aloof.
It always starts with presence. It’s the totality of you that gets expressed to the woman. All women can instinctively pick up on your presence so there is no sense taking on a fake persona. They can see through that too.

After presence is appreciation. This is not a personality quality. But rather, a state of being. A woman should feel as if the sun is shining on her when you give her attention. And if she acts up, you take it away. This is how you mold her behavior. Also, if you reward women for certain qualities, they are more likely to bring out those qualities.

For me, I only reward women for positive behavior and submission. If she doesn’t submit, then I must acquit. No exceptions. This molding process literally lasts throughout the entire relationship and never ends. I am always judging/qualifying her.

She is always living in MY frame.

She makes an effort, I reward her for that effort with escalation. That’s how it goes. Escalation is framed as a reward for her efforts to flirt with me, and not as a seduction tactic. This way, I give her space to make a worthy effort to seduce me.

You cannot reward women for nothing. That’s being low value.

Many guys rob women from this opportunity to make a worthy effort to seduce them. They do all the seduction instead. This comes from an over reactive ego and low self worth. The guy thinks it’s all about him and what he needs to do to “prove” himself. He has her on a pedestal. And this often leads to being a performance monkey, as you’ve all seen in the pickup joints.

But observe the cool guys and notice they are usually leaning back and giving space to the woman to flirt back. But the guy doesn’t JUST lean back and act indifferent. He also rewards her efforts with escalation.

I liken it to playing tennis. You hit the ball to her court, and now she has to hit it back. If she drops the ball, the romance ends. And if you hit a second ball to her, she loses all respect for you.

On one level, you might have heard me say that it is women’s job to initiate because women are the real seducers. And I have even gone to great lengths to argue that point.

But there is another level I am operating on that has nothing to do with seduction. It’s the level of being high value. I am operating on universal laws of value that cannot be violated.

If you reward women for nothing, then they cannot HELP but see you as low value.

Women will tell you all day and night that they want guys to make the first move because it’s the “masculine” thing to do. But when you do so, you end up nerfing your value in half.

This is why the cold approachers who open women without iois look like clowns. They could even be handsome but end up cutting their value in half because they are violating a simple law of value.

The women would even go “I don’t get it. He did everything right. But for some reason, I’m not feeling it.”

To give you guys an example of what I am talking about, look no further than this forum. You wouldn’t give a post a “like” if didn’t provide any VALUE, so why the hell are so so quick to reward women for doing nothing? It’s the same principle.

Something must provide value for you to reward it. This implies that you have high standards. And having high standards implies that YOU are high value.

The whole “her worthy effort = deserving your reward” process happens throughout all phases of the relationship. It never ends. Guys who violate this principle experience those sudden drops in interest where the woman comes out of Nowhere and dumps them. Or she ghosts at the drop of a hat. Somewhere along the way, he thought he could let his guard down and started spoiling her while she stopped giving value to the relationship and she lost all respect for him.

In order for romance to exist, there must be an “equal energy exchange.” Women are intimately aware of this energy exchange. They learn about this the moment they learn about seduction as 13 year old girls. They know that in order to get a high value guys attention, they must make an effort. And in order to keep him, they must continue to give to the relationship. This is their entire experience with high value males throughout their life times.

So imagine you came out of nowhere and rewarded them for not giving you anything. You would have effectively broadcasted that you were low value. That’s how easy it is to Blow yourself out and have women categorize you.

This is really the paradigm I am operating from. I know about the equal energy exchange. I know about the law of value (it also applies in business), and I know women’s imprint and experience with high value males.

When I go out, I don’t give women any attention. But when they make an effort to get my attention, I reward them with escalation/appreciation/attainability, and immediately the interaction is escalated into a romantic/sexual vibe. It goes from stranger mode to sexual mode instantly. This is how fast my “game” is. But I am using HER effort as jet fuel to move things forward. This is the only type of escalation that feels natural to her because she feels like she deserved it and I painted myself as a high value man.

From this point, we shift to “integrity”. Integrity is when women get to see if who you present yourself as is who you really are. Women have ways to find out. Eventually she will vet out your integrity either through purposely sh1t testing you or simply observing the inconsistencies in your behavior. A lot of guys blow themselves out because they have no integrity. They have a mask on, they overcompensate, or they are insecure about something they lack. To be integrified means to be whole. In other words, you have your sh1t together in all facets of life.

After integrity is “wholeness”. First you showed up with an attractive presence. It drew her in and she made an effort to get your attention. Then you showed her appreciation. It drew her in even more and then you showed her integrity. Now she starts to feel an emotional connection. And now she sees you as a “whole” man.

After wholeness comes “play.” This is when a woman can let go of all of her inhibitions and have fun with you. You can use your imagination for that one.

Presence, appreciation, integrity, wholeness, play - This is called the attraction holarchy. It is not a hierarchy. A holarchy is like a circle. And the circle has layers to it. The outside of the circle is presence, and in the center is “wholeness.”

Even though this seems like a long process, it can happen in an instant. The more on your “purpose” you are as a man, the more “transparent” your presence is. And the more transparent your expression is, the more women feel comfortable “playing” with you right off the bat. It’s because they can clearly see your integrity and sense of wholeness, or completeness.

The more you are out of touch with your masculine purpose, the more distorted your expression/presence will be. You would end up expressing a mutated version of yourself. Sort of like Superman turning into Bizzaro. Bizzaro may think he’s Superman, but there is something off with him.

So there you have it. At the end it comes back to masculine purpose and achieving your goals and mastering your craft in order to develop a transparent expression, Presence, and high value.

From this level of completeness, it’s a matter of inviting women into your holarchy and showing them you have nothing to hide. Some may even call this “showing vulnerability.”
 
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MrWood

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Anyone really get this BS?
yep, and he has described as best he could the natural submission state that "most" females need/want to feel like a woman with a man.
It all is very primal. She desires you to provoke her and keep her in this state by your "frame" and your direction toward her, she desires you to decide in all things, to lead, especially sex... and if she steps out of line, take your masculinity away from her... if she puts effort to you, herself... reward her with your pride (especially in the bed).

I have dated a few women, mostly Russian or Chinese that exhibit the epitome of this, so much so that they desire and need your "presence" as @stormrider put it. They need it and crave your ability to allow them to feel this way.
This is a part of what I often refer to as "womens nature"

perhaps @BeExcellent could weigh in
 

7onriverI f

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Remember, only when she perceives you as high value can you get away with showing interest and making yourself look attainable
That is why you can't just approach every girl in the bar. Not every girl thinks you high value and wants something from you.
I can tell when I walk into a bar which girls think im high value enough and which girls are thinking about some other ****. eye contact generally lets you know this ****.
 

BeExcellent

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yep, and he has described as best he could the natural submission state that "most" females need/want to feel like a woman with a man.
It all is very primal. She desires you to provoke her and keep her in this state by your "frame" and your direction toward her, she desires you to decide in all things, to lead, especially sex... and if she steps out of line, take your masculinity away from her... if she puts effort to you, herself... reward her with your pride (especially in the bed).

I have dated a few women, mostly Russian or Chinese that exhibit the epitome of this, so much so that they desire and need your "presence" as @stormrider put it. They need it and crave your ability to allow them to feel this way.
This is a part of what I often refer to as "womens nature"

perhaps @BeExcellent could weigh in
Masculinity is massively attractive. Sexually attractive. However it needs to emanate from a man’s core, it cannot be contrived.

The bad boy type men of the player archetype master a certain look that women read as masculine. I’d call it a brooding sort of look. Part devilish, part troubled, part charming, part stoic, part serious. Look at photos of Matt Dillon from the 1980s; most any movie still from the James Bond movies, look at photos of most any professional boxer or fighter. But Matt Dillon captures it best IMHO.

My guy never smiles in photos. He has a gorgeous smile and an engaging laugh. But he never offers that side up to be captured in photos. It annoys me a bit as it’s fronting in a way...but he knows how to package his image and does it without thinking.

But understand something. Masculinity needs to be what you are at your core. You can’t fake it. Women have radar for posers along these lines. Posers will be recognized and dismissed quickly by women who aren’t foolish or insecure or intoxicated.

You can increase your masculinity by focusing on yourself and your mission in life and by being the best version of yourself that you are able to manifest and aspire to (this should change, grow, and expand over your lifetime)...as you mature as a man.

Women are drawn to that core. Some people will naturally smile & laugh more than others. Never distort your personality vis a vis your appearance so as to become incongruent. That belies your nature and is fake. Don’t be fake.

Be a man. Comport yourself like a man. Women will get tingly over a real, masculine man. Trust me.
 
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