Why "Whatever You Want" Keeps You Single

She says the movie looks dumb; you suddenly agree. She tests you with a little attitude; you apologize for nothing.

You think you're being easy to get along with. She reads something else entirely: a man with no edges. Nothing to hold on to. No friction, no tension, no reason to wonder what he really thinks.

The "22 Rules" taught me to push back — playfully, calmly, without needing her approval. Strange things happened after that.

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Bad situation - How do I handle this

Serg897

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Its over.

As is almost always the case, the naysayers on this board were right, as was my gut feeling. Last night I talked to her and I tested the waters to see if she would be open to seeing me again - no go.

So that's that. Now the healing process begins. Its unfortunate, because I really liked this one. I have not found a girl that was so likable in a long time. I ****ed it up pretty good.
 
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"She's Out of Your League"

You've said it a hundred times. Maybe a thousand. And every time you say it, you train your brain to freeze the next time she walks into the room.

Leagues are a myth invented by guys who are scared of women.

She's a person. She has bad breath in the morning. She picks songs she can't sing in the shower. She overthinks her own texts.

Walk over. Say something. The league dissolves the second you open your mouth.

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Igetit!

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Serg897 said:
Its over.

As is almost always the case, the naysayers on this board were right, as was my gut feeling. Last night I talked to her and I tested the waters to see if she would be open to seeing me again - no go.

So that's that. Now the healing process begins. Its unfortunate, because I really liked this one. I have not found a girl that was so likable in a long time. I ****ed it up pretty good.
So it's finally over,huh? Well,maybe it's for the best. Whenever a relationship gets to the point of being too painful,too one-sided,with too much being invested from you with little or no return,yeah,it's time to let go.
So you say you contacted her last night and "tested the waters" so to speak.
What exactly do you mean by that? What did you do,and how did the conversation go?

Another question:Why did you decide to contact her all of the sudden? Just curious.

You say that you screwed this one up pretty good. I wholeheartedly agree.:)
I'm just joking with you man,cheer up. You'll get through this.

I've been there before myself as well. I had the exact situation,made the same mistakes,and ended up with the exact same result. Things started off fine in the beginning,then once she "sensed" I wanted something more serious/long term,all of the sudden she got distant,whenever we had plans to get together to hang out,she'd break them with some lame excuse.
I couldn't figure out what the problem was. And it seemed like the more I tried to fix things,the worse they got. At least you were better off than I was. You had this forum to bounce ideas off of,and experienced guys to give you advice. I didn't have this forum. I didn't even know this forum existed. And even if I had known,it wouldn't have mattered because I didn't have a computer back then.

I believe that this is something that all guys go through at some point in their lives. Just make sure you learn from it. I only had to touch a hot stove once to know not to do that again. I didn't have to do it over and over before I finally "got it".

I know you don't want to have to relive this painful experience with girl after girl,over and over again before you finally "get" what everyone here was just flat out telling you. So take some time,relax,chill out,take it easy for a while,but make sure you know where you went wrong so this time will be the last time you have to run into this particular roadblock again.

Peace man.
 

Serg897

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Thanks for the uplifting post, Igetit

So you say you contacted her last night and "tested the waters" so to speak. What exactly do you mean by that? What did you do,and how did the conversation go?

Another question:Why did you decide to contact her all of the sudden? Just curious.
I wanted resolution. I started to suspect that this was already over but mentally I couldn't get over it until I knew for sure. It was getting to be too much of a headache. I figured it would make little difference to wait a few more days vs. calling her last night, so I went ahead and contacted her.

The conversation went friendly enough at first. We told a few jokes and had a few laughs. The relevant part comes in when she told me to watch a movie that she had wanted me to see one time when I was at her place, which was coming on TV. I told her I was going out with friends soon (which I was), and that that wouldn't be possible. She then said it was on again the following night.

Taking this opportunity, I said "Well I should be back by then - why don't I come over and watch it with you?". There was a slight pause, to which she said. "Im working tommorow - and I just don't know about that".

After that, the conversation turned serious. I asked her if that was her final answer, and she replies "I think so".

She then told me about how she is completely swamped with work these next few weeks, and how she needs to survive it. Its true that she is, but of course that's a bs excuse - she just doesn't want to see me anymore. I even called her out on this (not angrily of course) - the real reason she doesn't want to see me anymore is because of all the damage and drama I caused.

There wasn't much reason to continue the conversation after that, so I ended it. Then started drinking and didn't stop until I puked.

At least you were better off than I was. You had this forum to bounce ideas off of,and experienced guys to give you advice.
Too bad I didn't follow it very well. My actions, especially what I did initially, were driven by almost totally blind emotion. This is what happens when I become so infatuated with a girl I cant think rationally anymore, and I fall into a deathtrap that kills the relationship permanently. Honestly, I haven't had this happen to me in a long time. Almost all of college for me has been flings and one-night stands, I only got close to a relationship one other time (totally different story). I haven't done something crazy like this since I was a freshman. This is probably why I let my guard down and let myself get infatuated, especially since I could really see myself with her.

Its alright. This was a completely new situation for me, with a completely new type of scenario I had never experienced before. Sometimes I learn things the hard way. I don't plan on ever hitting this roadblock again.

The lessons here are:
1.) I should not get too attached to a girl I'm not in a real relationship with
2.) I should concentrate on having fun for a while, not push for something too prematurely

I think #1 is the more important one. If I'm truly looking for a relationship, I shouldnt be with girls that arent. Notice, if you look back in this thread I tell the story of how I initially knew this and broke up with her early, but she sucked me back in, and actually once told me she was "working towards it" (something I neglected to mention here - I'd love to hear what you guys have to say about this). Probably because her IL was high and she wanted to keep me around for a little longer. So essentially I stuck around waiting for her to make up her mind.

Of course, it was all nonsense in the end. This is for the best.
 
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Igetit!

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Serg897 said:
Thanks for the uplifting post, Igetit

Igetit! said:
At least you were better off than I was. You had the forum to bounce ideas off of and experienced guys to give you advice.
Too bad I didn't follow it very well.
True,but the next time you need some type of advice concerning women and you go back and forth between whether to use it or not,you'll be able to look back at this situation to help motivate you to listen to the forum.


Serg897 said:
Sometimes I learn things the hard way. I don't plan on ever hitting this roadblock again.
I'm guilty of this as well. It's more painful to learn things the hard way,but at least you learn.

Serg897 said:
The lessons here are:
1.) I should not get too attached to a girl I'm not in a real relationship with
2.) I should concentrate on having fun for a while, do not push for something more prematurely.

I think #1 is the more important one. If I'm truly looking for a relationship, I shouldnt be with girls that arent. Notice, if you look back in this thread I tell the story of how I initially knew this and broke up with her early, but she sucked me back in, and actually once told me she was "working towards it" (something I neglected to mention here - I'd love to hear what you guys have to say about this). Probably because her IL was high and she wanted to keep me around for a little longer.
This is actually kind of funny because whether you realize it or not,this is Exactly,Exactly,Exactly,what WC2,Tincanman99,and I had been saying. We said that the reason she wouldn't commit to you was because she sensed you wanted a commitment to her,right? Now look at what you wrote here. You said that you broke up with this girl,but she sucked you back in. She did it. Now look at this quote from you:
Serg897 said:
and actually once told me she was "working towards it"
You see that? She sucked you back into dating her,and she was working towards a commitment to you. And this was all happening when you broke up with her earlier,or that is,while it was 100% clear to her that you WERE NOT PUSHING for a relationship. You see? When you were just dating her,just dating,without any thoughts of being together in the future,without any long term plans,SHE WAS THE ONE "working" towards the commitment,SHE WAS THE ONE doing whatever she could to "suck you in".

Don't ask me why that is,I just know it is. Whenever a guy pushes for a relationship,the girl pulls back,but if the guy relaxes and pulls back,then the girl pushes for the relatonship. That's just how it is. You just proved that yourself. You broke up with her,then she sucked you back in,then when you pushed for a relationship,she lost interest. Crazy,huh?
 

Serg897

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You see that? She sucked you back into dating her,and she was working towards a commitment to you. And this was all happening when you broke up with her earlier,or that is,while it was 100% clear to her that you WERE NOT PUSHING for a relationship.

You broke up with her,then she sucked you back in,then when you pushed for a relationship,she lost interest. Crazy,huh?
I think the jist of this is pretty accurate, exept for one minor detail - I broke up with her early the first time because I clearly stated that we "werent compatible" BECAUSE of her non-commitment issues.

DESPITE this she came back and sucked me back in.

I don't know what she was expecting. She was probably just reacting emotionally and perhaps CONSIDERING the possibility, but once I continued to push, even if it was subtle, she lost interest. This dude from Turkey starting to text her again probably contributed to this deterioration as well.

So yeah, despite that minor (and problably irrelevant) detail, this proves exactly what you guys were saying.

Crazy,huh?
Yeah. Completely nuts.
 

"So, What Do You Do for Fun?"

She asks it casually, mid-sip. And you feel the floor open up, because the honest answer is work, gym, and a couple shows you're half-watching.

Women rarely say this out loud, but a man with a life is attractive before he says a word. The guy who spent Saturday deep-sea fishing and came back with photos and a story — he walks in already interesting.

The "22 Rules" pushed me to build a life worth talking about. Turns out the fastest way to be interesting to women is to be interested in your own life first.

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Igetit!

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Well,at least next time you run into this situation,you'll know what to do.
 

Serg897

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This is terrible.

I'm in a pseudo-depressed state right now. I see now that my basic mistake was letting myself get way too attached to this girl. If that didn't happen, I wouldn't have made these crappy decisions.

I don't really know why this happened. Last semester I saw another girl for around the same amount of time, broke it off for different reasons, and easily moved on with my life.

Its just that I really liked this one!...and I think I have developed an awful case of oneitis. I'm even having thoughts of calling or texting her again (which I know is BAD).

This happens at an awful time, because there is a lot of work I need to do to wrap up the semester right and I need it to be done well.

I need help, guys.
 

tincanman99

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It happens to everybody. Try not to let it get you down. The reality is that it is what it is. No more no less. You need to get busy with your life and start dating other women. LOTS OF THEM. When you find another one to like this one will fade.

Whatever you do now, do not contact her. I am serious. Contacting her will not get you anything but more aggravation. Leave it alone for a while and see if she contacts you. No good can come from contacting her except to pressure her. Once she feels the pressure she will bolt because she is not ready to reengage.

I am the master of ugly break ups because all of mine in the past were like this. I have realized that almost 100% of the time its does not pay to play out an ugly scene. A lot of the time the best thing to do is do NOTHING.

I see the snooping on her cell as a big problem. Because it sends a message that you cant be trusted and trust is a big deal for women.

Once you are apart for a while she will have time to clear her head and any harsh feelings she may have will eventually fade providing nothing really bad happened. Than maybe she will come back. Maybe not. Let her contact you though. ABSOLUTELY DO NOT CONTACT HER. No gushy notes, emails, nothing.

Just give it space and some time and see what happens.
 

izza

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Serg897 said:
This is terrible.

I'm in a pseudo-depressed state right now. I see now that my basic mistake was letting myself get way too attached to this girl. If that didn't happen, I wouldn't have made these crappy decisions.
You made the right decisions based on the "frame", or understanding of the universe, you had at the time. Now your frame has most likely changed, but that's fine. It's pointless to beat yourself up for decisions you made for very good reasons.

I don't really know why this happened. Last semester I saw another girl for around the same amount of time, broke it off for different reasons, and easily moved on with my life.

Its just that I really liked this one!...and I think I have developed an awful case of oneitis. I'm even having thoughts of calling or texting her again (which I know is BAD).
There's nothing wrong with liking a girl. More than anything, you sound frustrated with your ability to get women in general. Too bad, it seems you're just fine.

When I think about the characteristics of this "oneitus", I realize that it involves our basic positive emotions of love, appreciation, and admiration that have gotten us through billions of years of evolution. Treating it as an ailment is misleading. You'll be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

That said, I think there are certain consequences that come with "love" that many guys aren't ready for. Moreover, guys know they're not ready for these emotions, that's why they adopt extreme and self-destructive behaviors.

For instance, if girl A is one of the sole good things in your life, you will hurt a lot more than a more stable guy the second she is gone. Yes, you'll be obsessed with her. It is normal and healthy to want lots of love and excitement in your life. If the girl was all you had, it is normal to miss her disproportionately.

Again, if you treat girl A like property, you will feel betrayed by her making normal human decisions.

That said, it is healthy to like girls. If you like a girl, it is healthy to wish she were still there. You need to be ready to deal with this nostalgia - one of the basic characteristics of dating - maturely and healthily before you date too seriously. You need to learn to grow from that emotion. Again, that is a basic requirement of healthy dating. Dating multiple girls isn't necessarily the answer. I think it makes things worse in some cases.

What are the other parts of your life you're excited about? Where are your friends? I want you to be happy, I try to give you a new perspective. But I'm not a real, live friend. I'm definitely not your immediate family.

And these guys on here who espouse all this "play hard to get" and power-plays. Women hate that kind of behavior more than anything else. After all this talk about turnoffs, playing hard to get is an IMMEDIATE turnoff. If you want to call the girl... wtf are you waiting for?

If it feels like the right thing to do, do it. No matter what people say on this board, focus on making the girl like you for you, not for your games or stratagems.

This happens at an awful time, because there is a lot of work I need to do to wrap up the semester right and I need it to be done well.

I need help, guys.
Most people don't know how to get work done in a therapeutic way. Most people just say, "well I have a paper due in a week, I'm going to hole up in my room until it's done." They really stress themselves out. Still, that works ok if your heart is intact. But if not, you're going to really be hurting.

When your heart is aching, you need to learn to do work therapeutically. That means getting a lot done, being extremely efficient when you work, but still taking plenty of time for you to heal and find the support you need from friends, hobbies, and family. It requires extra discipline, but you can do it.

Again, a lot of people I know, especially students, just kill themselves with dating when they're not ready to work therapeutically. Most students, in fact, most people in general, have no idea how to heal themselves from a breakup, even if they did have free time.

I had a rough breakup during a really hard academic period for me, and I had no idea how to work therapeutically, or how to get stuff done in a healthy way. It was incredibly painful, and a very unwise move on my part.

What can I say. It's a skill. But focus on doing only a certain amount of work each day AND NOT ONE MINUTE MORE. The rest of the time has to be free time. At the most, just take notes for ideas you get and then apply them the next day. But take that time and heal.

Most people "work" with unbelieveable inefficiency. During the inefficient times when they are trying to work but aren't, they loath themselves, worsening their emotional state while not accomplishing anything. It actually makes you worse. And as you get more and more stressed out, it's harder and harder to focus.

When you're working, work, except for breaks you've assigned in advance. When you've worked for a reasonable period of time, stop and heal yourself.

Good luck.

It happens to everybody. Try not to let it get you down. The reality is that it is what it is. No more no less. You need to get busy with your life and start dating other women. LOTS OF THEM. When you find another one to like this one will fade.
I guess I've never understood this reasoning. Have you ever had sex with a girl you wished were someone else? I don't know, I don't find that satisfying at all. It just makes me miss the person more.

Finding more women have never been the answer for me. In fact, if things don't work out with one or more of those women, it just multiplies the hurt and the frustration. That's a bad situation. You should be able to rely on friends, family, and hobbies - religion if you've got it - that heals me very quickly. If you don't have these things, you're making a mistake by dating. You need to invest your time in cultivating real emotional support in your life. Women are only real emotional support when you have the rest.

Whatever you do now, do not contact her. I am serious. Contacting her will not get you anything but more aggravation. Leave it alone for a while and see if she contacts you. No good can come from contacting her except to pressure her. Once she feels the pressure she will bolt because she is not ready to reengage.
I agree with you that appearing to pressure her is bad. But you can alleviate that by just saying, "I don't want to pressure you." Or even better, just by being an awesome conversationalist. The girl will want to hang out with you automatically. Refusing to call her when you want to call her is a passive frame of mind.

Would an AFC call her? Of course. Would an AFC call her and use awesome conversation skills to win her back? Of course not!

If your communication skills are bad and it always seems like you're pressuring people, that's the real problem.

I am the master of ugly break ups because all of mine in the past were like this. I have realized that almost 100% of the time its does not pay to play out an ugly scene. A lot of the time the best thing to do is do NOTHING.

I see the snooping on her cell as a big problem. Because it sends a message that you cant be trusted and trust is a big deal for women.
Women are capable of understanding that people make mistakes. Besides, this is a crime of passion and those are hot, if you play it right. This is, in my opinion, extremely recoverable. Women know that nobody is perfect. Make sure she can trust you to apologize when you make a mistake, that's the most important thing.

I am very glad to see that your advice comes from experience. I really respect nothing more than a person who speaks from experience. Even though we probably would take different courses of action, I want to thank you for posting, and for discussing your ideas with me. The best way to learn is a respectful conversation between people with different points of view. So thanks for sharing.

Once you are apart for a while she will have time to clear her head and any harsh feelings she may have will eventually fade providing nothing really bad happened. Than maybe she will come back. Maybe not. Let her contact you though. ABSOLUTELY DO NOT CONTACT HER. No gushy notes, emails, nothing.

Just give it space and some time and see what happens.
 
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1. Your game is as low as a snail. You are so insecure that you looked in her cell.

2. You also have not put her mind all about you. That is your fault. If you were hitting it right and saying the right **** she would of forgotten all about turk boy.

3. slap ya self silly and wake up to the truth. It's your world dog. Your in control of everything that is going on in your world. If she strays blame yourself for not lacing up her mind with your game.
 

"The Coffee Shop Girl You Never Spoke To"

You've replayed it a hundred times. She stood three feet away, scrolling her phone. You had an opening. You composed the perfect line — after she was gone.

For all you know, she's married now. To some guy who said something. Anything.

Openers are cheap. Almost any sentence works when it's delivered within three seconds. The expensive part is the standing there, drafting and deleting, while the window quietly closes.

The "22 Rules" stripped out my hesitation. What to open with, how to keep it alive, and the one habit that costs guys more women than anything else: waiting for perfect.

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Serg897

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Thanks to both of you who replied today. I got through the day today without too many issues - as time keeps going by I know things will start turning around. Im starting to accept the fact that she is out of my life for now, possibly forever.

I want to address some of the points you made, Izza.

More than anything, you sound frustrated with your ability to get women in general. Too bad, it seems you're just fine.
What gave you that impression? I'm pretty happy with the amount of women Ive been able to attract, especially lately. I'm not like some of the guys on here that claim to be seeing 4 or 5 women at the same time and seemingly never have dry spells, but Ive been able to get a lot of the women I've been attracted to the past year with just a little effort on my part.

This girl was a good case of that. I met her in a class, thought she was cute, made some moves and began seeing her pretty easily.

That said, I think there are certain consequences that come with "love" that many guys aren't ready for.

If the girl was all you had, it is normal to miss her disproportionately.

You need to be ready to deal with this nostalgia - one of the basic characteristics of dating - maturely and healthily before you date too seriously. You need to learn to grow from that emotion. Again, that is a basic requirement of healthy dating.
It will sometimes happen while Im dating someone that I will become attached, think about her constantly, start to include her in my daily plan (i.e., call her at this time, keep THIS night free for her...), etc. And finally, make any seperation incredibly rough.

It'll happen with a girl I have strong attraction for, like this one.

I believe I do have all I need going for me in my life when it comes to friends, hobbies, and family that any healthy guy should have. I have a pretty big interest in politics and in science (I want to be a microbiologist). I'm a ballroom dancer and Ive done that for several years - my partner is pretty good looking, also (though she has a "boy" and I don't think I'd consider dating her anyway - I know I look great doing the cha-cha with her)! Ive got a plan for the future (grad school) and I'm currently pretty happy with the where I'm at.

Despite all this, these attachments STILL happen - although this evening I seem to be having an easier time than this morning when I woke up. Ive always just accepted them as an unavoidable part of dating - one that will always be there and always have the potential to hurt you.

If you have ways you get around this, I'd love to hear them.

I guess I've never understood this reasoning. Have you ever had sex with a girl you wished were someone else? I don't know, I don't find that satisfying at all. It just makes me miss the person more.
This has happened to me before. I ended up treating the girl like sh!t because I was still not over another. She ended up hating me for it, and I still regret what I did to this day.

And these guys on here who espouse all this "play hard to get" and power-plays. Women hate that kind of behavior more than anything else. After all this talk about turnoffs, playing hard to get is an IMMEDIATE turnoff. If you want to call the girl... wtf are you waiting for?

...

I agree with you that appearing to pressure her is bad. But you can alleviate that by just saying, "I don't want to pressure you." Or even better, just by being an awesome conversationalist. The girl will want to hang out with you automatically. Refusing to call her when you want to call her is a passive frame of mind.

Would an AFC call her? Of course. Would an AFC call her and use awesome conversation skills to win her back? Of course not!
Izza, although I respect you a lot and I'm deeply grateful for all the time you've put into this thread to help me, I believe you might be a little off here.

I agree that communication is vital, and I'm happy that I followed your advice to have a talk with her a few days ago - but I don't think any amount of conversation skills is going to save this right now. I seriously doubt she will want to hang out with me automatically if she is dazzled by awesome oratory skills.

As soon as I call her and she sees who it is, I'm admitting to her that I cant handle separating from her and its going to immediately give an unattractive, needy impression. I'm not even sure what I would talk to her about.

You REALLY think its possible to win her back just like this? Im not so sure. It's something I might consider doing next semester, but now? Unlikely it will help, I think.

I'm also pretty sure the play-hard-to-get tactic is a tried and true way to increase interest level. The harder something is to obtain, the more valuable its percieved to be.

Let me know of your thoughts.
 

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Serg897 said:
Thanks to both of you who replied today. I got through the day today without too many issues - as time keeps going by I know things will start turning around. Im starting to accept the fact that she is out of my life for now, possibly forever.
This is good to hear. It's always hard after a relationship ends. Usually the first couple of days are the hardest,then bit by bit,day by day,the pain subsides,then things just return back to normal. Like they say,time heals all wounds.
Serg897 said:
I want to address some of the points you made, Izza.
Izza, although I respect you a lot and I'm deeply grateful for all the time you've put into this thread to help me, I believe you might be a little off here.
A little off? Serg897,Izza is waaaay off on this one. Frankly,this talk about possibly winning her back is NOT what you need to be hearing right now. I respect Izza,I mean the dude has been here a heck of a lot longer than I have,however,I simply do not agree with him on this one.
You said that today seemed to be pretty decent for you,no major issues concerning this girl. Although it was painful the last time you talked to her,you appear to be doing well. To me,that's progress. Keep that progress.Don't blow it by contacting her and trying to win her back with some clever speech.


Serg897 said:
As soon as I call her and she sees who it is, I'm admitting to her that I cant handle separating from her and its going to immediately give an unattractive, needy impression. I'm not even sure what I would talk to her about.
EXACTLY. Couldn't have put it better myself. Just the phone call alone from you would tell her more about what's going on inside you than any speech you could come up with. I've seen a few of the replies Izza has given to various members,and he usually gives helpful advice. I'm kind of surprised to see him say somethig like this. Anyway,don't call her. Don't contact her. You do it,then more than likely,you'll just get another 1000 "I don't knows" from her,thus causing you even more pain and a even longer road to full recovery/healing.

Even though what Izza said about winning her back is bad advice imo,there is one thing he said that I 100% totally agree with. Do NOT run off to another woman to try to deal with,or escape the pain of what just happened with this girl. Pain is like a tunnel. There's no sense in trying to go around it,underneath it,or over it. To get through to the other side,you have to go through it. It's just that simple. If you feel bad,then you just have to feel bad.
Well how long? I'll tell you. You feel bad until you don't feel bad anymore. If you're hurt,then you just be hurt until it doesn't hurt anymore. Don't turn to drugs,women,alcohol to run away from it. Just bare it. This way,once it's over,it's really over. If you to turn to alcohol to escape it,then once the alcohol has worn off,the pain just hits you right back in your face again. Same with women or sex. You have pain,you sleep with a woman,and for a moment the pain seems gone,but once it's over,the pain's right there with you again. Sex,alcohol,or drugs don't make pain go away,they just destract you from it. So don't fall into that trap. You'll only prolong the pain.

Keep your head up man,you'll be ok.

Peace.
 

izza

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Serg897 said:
Thanks to both of you who replied today. I got through the day today without too many issues - as time keeps going by I know things will start turning around. Im starting to accept the fact that she is out of my life for now, possibly forever.
Sounds like a good first step. Sorry to hear the bad news. But congratulations on all that you've learned from this.

What gave you that impression? I'm pretty happy with the amount of women Ive been able to attract, especially lately. I'm not like some of the guys on here that claim to be seeing 4 or 5 women at the same time and seemingly never have dry spells, but Ive been able to get a lot of the women I've been attracted to the past year with just a little effort on my part.

This girl was a good case of that. I met her in a class, thought she was cute, made some moves and began seeing her pretty easily.
Before I respond to this section in particular, I want to say first of all, thanks to you and I Get It for disagreeing so respectfully to my post above. It probably seemed really bizarre... that's because for some reason I didn't get a reply notification until late, I don't know why. I missed the posts where you had already called her a second time.

Last I knew, you had called her once, with a promise to call her again in the next few days to see what she thought. I thought you were just not going to call at all, and hope that by "playing hard to get" you would improve your market value. I thought that sounded a bit odd.

I missed that you already had called back, and that the girl wasn't ready to go out with you. So, my apologies - oh communication is everything. It seems to me from what you're saying that you're making the right call to let her alone for now.

Of course I welcome you guys disagreeing with me, that's a wonderful way for us all to learn. Fortunately, in this case, I even disagree with my previous post, as applied to the real situation.

This "I'll win her back" sentiment is noble but often misplaced. I don't see not calling her so much as increasing market value as giving the girl some space to heal.

Also, good for you for being an island of honesty on this board. I haven't been seeing anyone for a couple of months as I improve my knowledge of myself, and reframe my understanding of sexual relations. I don't get these guys who think we should be dating 24/7. Maybe at the right time in my life that would be best, but for now, I am extremely happy hanging out with my friends. In fact, I've spent more mental energy on dating stuff than on them in the past couple of years - that ain't right!

It will sometimes happen while Im dating someone that I will become attached, think about her constantly, start to include her in my daily plan (i.e., call her at this time, keep THIS night free for her...), etc. And finally, make any seperation incredibly rough.

It'll happen with a girl I have strong attraction for, like this one.
Yeah, definitely man. People around here don't talk about this much, but it takes courage to let a girl into your life - and I mean into that daily minutiae of life. Because if she's there and leaves, it's hard for a minute.

I believe I do have all I need going for me in my life when it comes to friends, hobbies, and family that any healthy guy should have. I have a pretty big interest in politics and in science (I want to be a microbiologist). I'm a ballroom dancer and Ive done that for several years - my partner is pretty good looking, also (though she has a "boy" and I don't think I'd consider dating her anyway - I know I look great doing the cha-cha with her)! Ive got a plan for the future (grad school) and I'm currently pretty happy with the where I'm at.

Despite all this, these attachments STILL happen - although this evening I seem to be having an easier time than this morning when I woke up. Ive always just accepted them as an unavoidable part of dating - one that will always be there and always have the potential to hurt you.

If you have ways you get around this, I'd love to hear them.
I'm really glad to hear that. Sounds like you are truly earning an attractive life.

My bad, I'm just guessing based on words. I probably had some doubts about your friends because I thought you said you needed her to be happy. But what you were really saying was "if I call her now I'll seem desperate." Again, my bad misreading the context.

(That said, I've learned to be much more ok with seeming desperate. That is often the hardest part about approaching for me - if I'm approaching, I must be single or desperate or something. Now that I won't be doing exclusive relationships for a while, that attitude is gone. :))

Anyway, a remedy for attachment? I don't know that there is a simple remedy per se. I think that every time a girl makes me feel that way it's wonderful. And when she leaves it's hard. But still, that pain exposes a chink in my armor that I would do well to replace. In some ways, I use dating to help me be more self-sufficient. I go out and have a great time. Sometimes the girl can't stick around, which is normal at our age. And if the girl was fun and exciting enough, I miss that feeling. And I ask myself, "how can I recreate that feeling in my life without her around. Even alone?" And so, I learn to do really fun stuff with friends, and learn to love my non-romantic life even better.

I don't think there's any remedy but continuing to make life more and more exciting, with a special focus on the non-romantic parts. :) But that's just a theory.



This has happened to me before. I ended up treating the girl like sh!t because I was still not over another. She ended up hating me for it, and I still regret what I did to this day.
Sorry to hear that. Is there any way you can apologize to the girl? Anyway, I know you didn't mean to hurt her feelings, but were in a bad place. It's ok. I too have treated ladies with less respect that I would have liked. I don't think I've had the chance to apologize... oh that reminds me, there's a couple I could apologize to that I've been meaning to. I hope I remember this tomorrow :)

Izza, although I respect you a lot and I'm deeply grateful for all the time you've put into this thread to help me, I believe you might be a little off here.

I agree that communication is vital, and I'm happy that I followed your advice to have a talk with her a few days ago - but I don't think any amount of conversation skills is going to save this right now. I seriously doubt she will want to hang out with me automatically if she is dazzled by awesome oratory skills.
Yeah, you're right. My bad :) But thanks for the compliments, and I appreciate your kind words. More than that, I need to learn to disagree with people like you. That's awesome.

As soon as I call her and she sees who it is, I'm admitting to her that I cant handle separating from her and its going to immediately give an unattractive, needy impression. I'm not even sure what I would talk to her about.

You REALLY think its possible to win her back just like this? Im not so sure. It's something I might consider doing next semester, but now? Unlikely it will help, I think.
Oops, yeah you're right. :)

I'm also pretty sure the play-hard-to-get tactic is a tried and true way to increase interest level. The harder something is to obtain, the more valuable its percieved to be.

Let me know of your thoughts.
Whatever the tactic is called, sounds like the girl could benefit from some time to herself.

I like the sounds of the way you handled this girl. It sounds like your latest behavior has been classy and attractive to her. Sorry to hear she wasn't ready. I bet if she were in a better place, she would love to get back with you.

Iget it: yeah my bad, I misread the previous post. Thanks for having my back, and also for disagreeing so respectfully. I really appreciate being given the benefit of the doubt. I've had some experiences on here where people were really rude or called me an idiot and all I did was misread something. I try to read as carefully as I can, but ah well :). Anyway, you guys are great, so thanks for helping me learn from your experiences and this discussion. Also, thanks for the compliments on my other posts - I imagine you're referring to Jayer. I appreciate it. You have an awesome humility and willingness to learn - I can be a bit set in my ways, so I try to learn from you.

Serg, I'm really glad to hear you have such a strong network of friends, family and hobbies. It's good to know that you will have the supports you need to bounce back quickly, when you're ready. That ballroom dancing sounds like fun - especially with that hottie! God I love a woman who can dance. I just hate dancing with people, but too bad. I used to pick up so many chicks at salsa class.

Ok I'm rambling and tired now. Good night!
Izza

Also, IGI, I love your metaphor about the tunnel. That is great!
 

Serg897

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Its not over

Things have happened since this thread died. I think I need help once again.

First of all, I'll admit that I had an AFC "**** sosuave.com" moment and I texted her thursday. But amazingly, she was actually receptive, and I ended up calling today during the day and then - amazingly - she goes "let me come find you".

So we meet up on campus. I just wanted to get stuff off my chest and find out a few things. We discuss our FEELINGS, etc. Our talk is friendly and we laugh with each other a lot. We seperate.

I was not expecting anything else to happen. I thought I was ready to finally start to move on with my life. It seemed OBVIOUS to me that it was over.

But then I get this ****ing text an hour later:

her - "We cant see each other anymore! I am confused as **** now!"

the rest of our convo via text (summarized) goes as follows:

me - "lol,we should just take a break from each other for now and concentrate on finals, maybe next semester we can start things up again"

her - "ugh I dunno man! but no more talking to one another now! k?"

me -"uhh, YOU texted ME just now"

her - "fine! no more texting from me!"

one hour later....

her - "ugh I cant any work done and Im blaming you!"

At this point, Im the one thats confused as ****. With the help of Izza, who I've been in communication with via AIM, I decide to take the route of not trying to pressure her much and respond with the following:

me - "I am really stressed about school. I had been hoping to destress and have some fun with you again. But I understand you need some space. We weave a very tangled web. I really like you and respect you, and I care about you. I want you to be happy and do what is best for you. My door is always open. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know and I'll try my best. Ok? Im sorry you are confused"

If you guys want to flame me about that reply, go ahead. Honestly, Im not sure if everything I said in there was ideal - it just seemed good at the time, given that I had pretty much already told her everything about how I felt when we met in person, and that she really doesn't seem to have any idea what she wants.

Her reply was a simple "Thank you" - and that is pretty much where we are now.

I thought I was ready to move on when we separated. Then her text blew it up again. I'm honestly driving myself insane here. Since when has me acting like an AFC ever led to anything? This type of situation is completely, 100% unique.

Nothing makes sense anymore at all, and I'm completely lost. I'm battling all sorts of inner demons telling me to start talking to her again - DESPITE what I said about giving her space, and just saying "listen, nothing that happened yesterday makes any sense at all". This girl is a living contradiction, an unsolvable puzzle, and her behavior is proving it.
 

Igetit!

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Serg897 said:
Things have happened since this thread died. I think I need help once again. So we meet up on campus. I just wanted to get stuff off my chest and find out a few things. We discuss our FEELINGS, etc. Our talk is friendly and we laugh with each other a lot. We seperate.
Serg,Serg,Serg. Like I said before,I respect Izza,I do,but this business of expressing your feeling with a girl? How many times,how many times,HOW MANY TIMES does this have to be said? You make me doubt my own name,because I just don't get this.


Serg897 said:
her - "We cant see each other anymore! I am confused as **** now!"

the rest of our convo via text (summarized) goes as follows:

me - "lol,we should just take a break from each other for now and concentrate on finals, maybe next semester we can start things up again"

her - "ugh I dunno man! but no more talking to one another now! k?"

me -"uhh, YOU texted ME just now"

her - "fine! no more texting from me!"

one hour later....

her - "ugh I cant any work done and Im blaming you!"
Don't you want some peace man? Aren't you tired of this? Heck,I'm just reading it,and I feel exhausted. How long has this been going on,and how much longer do YOU plan to be treated like this?

Serg897 said:
At this point, Im the one thats confused as ****. With the help of Izza, who I've been in communication with via AIM, I decide to take the route of not trying to pressure her much and respond with the following:

me - "I am really stressed about school. I had been hoping to destress and have some fun with you again. But I understand you need some space. We weave a very tangled web. I really like you and respect you, and I care about you. I want you to be happy and do what is best for you. My door is always open. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know and I'll try my best. Ok? Im sorry you are confused"
So at this point,you're still confused. She tells you not to talk to her anymore,rejects any attempt you make to spend time with her,tells you she no longer wants you be in a relationship with you over and over and over again,and after ALL that you're still confused. This is pitiful. No other word for it.

Serg897 said:
I'm honestly driving myself insane here.
You got that right. This is the most accurate thing I've seen you say in this thread. You're driving yourself insane,not her. You're doing it. So if you're the one who's doing it,then you're the one who can stop it. If she's confused,then let her be confused by herself. What,do you like pain or something?

Serg897 said:
This type of situation is completely, 100% unique.
You couldn't be more wrong. It may be unique to you,but many guys have been in the type of situation,including myself.
You do know that while you're stuck here in maybe,might,I don't know,indecisive land that more than likely she's probably already seeing somebody else,right? While you're sitting her stuck,frozen in time,my guess is that she's already seeing someone else while she keeps you dangling on the side. And she's not keeping you here because she's interested in you,it's because she likes the attention she gets from you. So don't fool yourself into thinking that just because you're stuck sitting here waiting for her to make up her mind,that she's also stuck alone trying to decide whether or not to get back together with you.
 

"Nervous Around Beautiful Women? There's a Rule for That"

I could talk to any woman I wasn't attracted to. Charming, funny, relaxed. Then a gorgeous woman looked my way and I'd become a sweating, babbling mess.

The fix took me years to find and ten minutes to learn. Nervousness and excitement are the same physical state — pounding heart, adrenaline, flushed face. Your brain just picks the label. And you can pick a better one.

Rule 16 shows you how. You feel the nerves, relabel them as excitement, and let that energy pour out as enthusiasm. Women notice the guy radiating it. They always do.

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Serg897

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Honestly, I regret reviving this thread.

Igetit, you're right. Like you've always been.

I did what was necessary, and I contacted her, because I found I didnt want to be in "maybe,might,I don't know,indecisive land" (sorry, Izza).

Needless to say, it didn't go well. She never had any intention of starting things again, of course. And we actually had a little bit of a fight over what happened yesterday.

The fact is, I've allowed myself to behave like a ****ing fool the last couple of weeks. I allowed myself to get so attached to this girl, WHO I WAS NOT EVEN IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH, to dominate my emotions and drive myself insane.

I guess we live and learn. Its really over this time, and I'm finished with her. For good. No more. And never again am I going to let this happen to me.

This thread is over
 

Interceptor

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Serge, you feel like this because it is draining your levels of masculinity.
You are slowly being drained of what gives you your masculine power.

It is being leeched from you.
So you feel disempowered and defeated.

Since you need somehing from her, and she's not giving it to you, you hang around hoping she will bestow you some honor or pity and give you the validation you seek.
But this is the worst place to be in,

You cannot count on women validating you as a man. The mere fact of needing to do so completely discounts you as a sexually attractive, masculine man. You repulse her.

You must validate yourself.
YOu must have self respect and dignity at all times, and at all costs.


A woman who drains your energy is not one to be with you. She is not partner material. She cannot give you anything but heartache, because her agenda is to take from you, not GIVE.
A good partner is one who ADDS to your life. Who enhances your life.
Who makes your life BETTER, Who enhances your masculinity, and who lets you BE A MAN. She accepts you as a Masculine Man. Not some boy toy who keeps her enetertained, or some afc chump who is her provisioner.
These two are to be avoided at all costs.
No woman is worth your self esteem, dignity, self respect, and masculinity.

They are YOUR GIFTS. And you bestow these gifts only to a worthy woman who is wiling to stand by your side, to let you be the man.
Who expects you to be a man, not a boy, nor a chump.
She loves you for YOU, not for what you can buy her or do for her.
You must command her respect, and even admiration. And if youdont, there IS NO RELATIONSHIP. Any belief that there's 'something there' is an ILLUSION.
PLease spare yourself the pain, and realize true love is a woman who loves you and respects and admires you EVEN if she is NOT WITH YOU.
Dont be with her if all she wants is what you can BUY her or GIVE to her.
No 'you scratch my back and then Ill think about scratching your back'.
Thats not love, thats a business exchange for goods and services. and is to be AVOIDED at all costs. No exceptions.
Work on unlocking your full potential. Dont be the typical couch potato with no life, no ambiton, and obsessed with female attention and female validation.

When we have very low self esteem we look to women we crave to give us attention, thus, gives us validation as being WORTHY of her, a hawt chick.
She knows this, and if she is typical, she will use it against you.
She will dangle the carrot and make you look like a fool stumbling over yourself to get a crumb of attention from her.
She laughs at the way you disrespect yourself and violate your integrity and dignity.

Never ever do that to yourself.

No woman is worth sacrificing your integrity and dignity ,and self respect.
And no woman has the POWER to VALIDATE you.
It is an illusion. It stems from low masculine, and low self esteem males who need female attention and validations DESPERATELY.
So they make her the focus of all his sense of self worth.
He lives and dies by her actions and words,. And she knows it.
And she often likes the power over you.
Which is why you AVOID females like this.
No matter how attractive you find her.
She is not mature, caring, compassionate, considerate, nor classy in the slighteset sense of the word.

From now on you will only deal with high class Ladies. Nothing else.
You deserve the best behavior from people. Especially when you treat others with grace, respect, compasision, and caring.
Always live up to your potential , even in the face of so called cynical realists.
Always be your best self, not out of vanity or manipulation, but out of shrewdness and a sense of spirituality.
 

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Hey man,be sure to stick to your guns this time. That post from Interceptor is dead on. Couldn't have said it better myself. Listen to what he said about you being a masculine man,and how you deserve to be treated with the same respect that you treat others. That's bang on advice man. This is what I was afraid of what would happen,about the healing process being prolonged because of you contacting her. Oh well. Like you said,live and learn.
Even though what I said happened to be right in this situation,I still appreciate Izza for what he had to contribute. His heart was in the right place. He meant well,and truely wanted to help. So I give him props for that.

Alright man,scene one,take two. Let's see if we can get it right this time. AVOID THIS GIRL. DO NOT LET HER DECEIVE YOU. More than likely,if you truely do decide to move on and stop contacting her,my guess is after a couple weeks,she probably is going to try to contact you. But DO NOT BE DECEIVED. It's not you she's after,it's your attention. If it were you,then she could have already been with you months ago,right? So truely,truely,move on,but be prepared for her possibly trying to contact you.

You'll get through this,you just need to chill out and relax. Take it one day at a time.

Peace man.
 

MisterMcGee

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Many people can learn from this. Helps put your mindset in sync
 

Serg897

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Thank you so much for your help, support, and understanding, guys. I was expecting to get flamed by at least one person by the end of the night, but not so.

The post by Interceptor was especially enlightening. Thank you!

And yes, I will definately stick to my guns this time. Even if she contacts me, I understand now that this is not the type of woman that is going to make me happy, and not the type of woman I deserve. Despite how attractive and fun I found her, its time to let go.

I'm also happy to have posted my experience so others can learn from it. This was a trap that I fell into, which caused me to get hurt emotionally many times over. As MisterMcGee just said, I hope others can learn to recognize these signs and avoid the same mistakes I made.
 

"The Coffee Shop Girl You Never Spoke To"

You've replayed it a hundred times. She stood three feet away, scrolling her phone. You had an opening. You composed the perfect line — after she was gone.

For all you know, she's married now. To some guy who said something. Anything.

Openers are cheap. Almost any sentence works when it's delivered within three seconds. The expensive part is the standing there, drafting and deleting, while the window quietly closes.

The "22 Rules" stripped out my hesitation. What to open with, how to keep it alive, and the one habit that costs guys more women than anything else: waiting for perfect.

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