"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"

You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.

And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.

Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.

The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.

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Back to the basics; where do you take a woman to on a first date?

Gamisch

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Back to the basics.

You're dealing with a woman who is in to you. But she is not a big drinker. She is open to whatever.

Where do you guys take such women?
- the bar isnt an option.
- straight to home? Nah
- dinner? Mweh...not even necessary
 
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"The Coffee Shop Girl You Never Spoke To"

You've replayed it a hundred times. She stood three feet away, scrolling her phone. You had an opening. You composed the perfect line — after she was gone.

For all you know, she's married now. To some guy who said something. Anything.

Openers are cheap. Almost any sentence works when it's delivered within three seconds. The expensive part is the standing there, drafting and deleting, while the window quietly closes.

The "22 Rules" stripped out my hesitation. What to open with, how to keep it alive, and the one habit that costs guys more women than anything else: waiting for perfect.

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Sega Genesis

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Hey @Gamisch , why is a bar not an option? I am not a big drinker, if at all, and I've had dates take me to a trendy sports bar (for example) and I nursed a Perrier on ice with lemon. Or a light wine spritz.

I don't mind if HE drinks as long as he is capable of holding his liquor and not getting drunk.

Bars are not just to drink, people go for the atmosphere, music, watch a game and/or to be social.
 

Doctor Europeo

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Take her to someplace you actually enjoy. Its always "bad advice" to take them to dinner or a movie but if its something you actually enjoy who the f0ck cares?

You will have a good time and she will probably enjoy your good vibes. Lots of my first dates were movie or dinner but I legit enjoy that stuff. I have tried different stuff like mini-golf or whatever but it didnt really mattered.
 

Gamisch

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Hey @Gamisch , why is a bar not an option? I am not a big drinker, if at all, and I've had dates take me to a trendy sports bar (for example) and I nursed a Perrier on ice with lemon. Or a light wine spritz.

I don't mind if HE drinks as long as he is capable of holding his liquor and not getting drunk.

Bars are not just to drink, people go for the atmosphere, music, watch a game and/or to be social.
Yeah, you do have a great point there!

In my mind the bar was too crowded, I always run into people I know and sometimes even exes, and she doesn't drink ( that much...)so I felt like it might've been to cliché. Dead give away I like this one a tad too much lol:lol:

But..thats why I named the thread back to the basics. I've been " spoiled " with women who made it too easy as in I havent been on " classic first dates " in quite a while. And tbh, this time I can also do as I please and take her literally anywhere.

Completely forgot about the basics.
 

Hal9000

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I'd take her somewhere, whether a bar, restaurant or wherever, that had a good vibe but wasn't so loud that we couldn't engage in conversation using a normal tone of voice. Nobody wants to have to shout for an hour.

As noted, even if she isn't a big drinker she could either nurse a drink for the evening or have something non-alcoholic. You never want to significantly outdrink your date on a first date however, so be mindful of that. If she isnt drinking much you shouldn't either so dont go somewhere that you might not be able to keep yourself from overindulging.
 

"She's Out of Your League"

You've said it a hundred times. Maybe a thousand. And every time you say it, you train your brain to freeze the next time she walks into the room.

Leagues are a myth invented by guys who are scared of women.

She's a person. She has bad breath in the morning. She picks songs she can't sing in the shower. She overthinks her own texts.

Walk over. Say something. The league dissolves the second you open your mouth.

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Gamisch

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Take her to someplace you actually enjoy. Its always "bad advice" to take them to dinner or a movie but if its something you actually enjoy who the f0ck cares?

You will have a good time and she will probably enjoy your good vibes. Lots of my first dates were movie or dinner but I legit enjoy that stuff. I have tried different stuff like mini-golf or whatever but it didnt really mattered.
Yeah, this woman told me she is down for whatever...so that's a broad brush to paint with...and perhaps simultaneously a test to see what I'll come up with.

And tbh I like the challenge. Thanks for your advice bro!!
 

obelisk

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Movies are a horrible first choice because you're stepping into a place you can't converse for 90-120mins. A bar or restaurant is dependent on how loud it is as others have alluded to. If its too chaotic or noisy then it's working against the reason you're going on the first date. Venue selection should be a) somewhere you like/vibe with b) quiet enough so you can actually converse.
 

plumber

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-coffee shop usually works.
-depending on weather a thermos of decent coffee and a park, the part should have other people around...
-your boat...
-a bar is fine, if your known and it has an area you can actually talk and hear each other. don't go to a bar you don't know.

-when the woman choose the location its often been an adventure of some sort, small or medium.

-going to an upscale place is a bad idea unless you go there often and are known.
 

Gamisch

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I got this one! Went for the attack after she seduced me on the apps for days. Told my self its now or never

Hb9, pretty blonde 26 y.o dime piece.

I still have to officially take her out tho..

At this point I can take her literally anywhere...
 

"She Laughed All Night. Then She Ghosted You. Here's Why."

Dinner ran three hours. She laughed at everything. You walked her to her car thinking this one's locked in.

Then: nothing. Two texts. No reply. What happened?

You did what most men do on a great date. You filled every silence, answered every question, and left her with nothing to wonder about. No mystery. Nothing to sit with when she got home.

Rule 3 of the "22 Rules" changes the ending: tell her a little, hold back the rest, and let her imagination do the chasing. The ghosting stops too.

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BillyPilgrim

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If she's been seducing you for some time OP, someplace near yours or hers should be fitting. Nothing too fancy.

Ending up at yours or hers, but not banging, wouldn't be the worst thing imo. Establish intimacy but without rushing anything.
 

Prepostereax

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Bring her into your world, which (depending on your interests) may need gentle introduction at first
Something you like to do already, with or without her. That's where you are in your element.
Don't worry about whether she's into it or not.
Go with no agenda other than to have fun and feel each other out.

Also have a plan b (no, not the morning after pill) in case something out of your control goes sideways

Couple of examples:
1. Unexpected fail
Woman pursued me, and She set up the date, that weekend, for something light at a cafe near her place, which was cafe central.
Should have been a slam dunk.

Instead, on the evening, she changed her mind, and just wanted a stroll, hand in hand, which was fine with me.
Still seemed promising from my perspective but I probably missed some cues.
She wasn't receptive to my attempts at escalation, maybe she was feeling off or something.
I didn't bother to set up a second date.

2. Unexpected win
Cute college girl but extreme introvert was open to same day "date" involving cafe and park walk, in broad daylight, places that I knew were cool and she hadn't been to.
And zero chance of escalation
Did this again the next day.
She let me have her email but didn't trust me enough with her number.

It was enough to set up a proper date involving the folk music scene, which I was into at the time.
Several venues.
I didn't tell her exactly what we were doing, in case she found some excuse to say no. Just that we'd check out the music in the first place on the itinerary.
I guessed she wouldn't tolerate each venue for long, so I planned that we hop from one to another (there were several in walking distance).
She hated some of those places, scared in some, disgusted in others.
Probably never been in such close proximity to hippies and ferals.
But she felt safe enough with me around.
And even safer when eventually we ended up at my place..
 
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"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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MatureDJ

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I'm old school; if we have had at least some positive interaction, I take her to decent (but not expensive) restaurant - or maybe a better restaurant that I have been wanting to go to, but that is too expensive for alone-men to frequent (I've been thinking about starting to go to these places on my own, but I'm waiting for my stock-market jackpot to hit to put me past $5M :love::love::love:. I could see how less wealthy men are more guarded about spending cash, but as consider my wealth to be a positive attribute, I want that to
 

MatureDJ

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Hey @Gamisch , why is a bar not an option? I am not a big drinker, if at all, and I've had dates take me to a trendy sports bar (for example) and I nursed a Perrier on ice with lemon. Or a light wine spritz.

I don't mind if HE drinks as long as he is capable of holding his liquor and not getting drunk.

Bars are not just to drink, people go for the atmosphere, music, watch a game and/or to be social.
I go to bars to sing.

 

FurryFriend

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Coffee is by far the best for a first date:

- You can talk and focus on each other
- You signal you don't need to buy a woman's time and affection, won't plan huge date without knowing her yet.
- Since coffee is low pressure, she's less likely to flake on the date, especially if the place is convenient for her.
- She won't feel pressured over your $8 cup of coffee. It's a no-strings-attached date.

I have a secret power move when it comes to coffee on a first date. We'd chat for about an hour and then I'd end the date. "Hey it's great meeting you, we should definitely do this again".

Most women are SHOCKED a guy has enough confidence to end the date. Usually, it's her who ends the date. She'll suspect you have a huge lineup of ladies in your life.

I did exactly this with my current girlfriend on our first date After we parted, she actually texted two hours later asking to grab dessert.

Others I've dated also had a positive reaction and would ask next day when we can meet again. Some have even said, "we're not doing something else?"
 
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