Autism makes dating/getting women hard

[zefer]

Just so you're not confused, I'm not mentally retarded. I have a specific kind of autism known as asperger's syndrome, which is the least severe on the autistic spectrum. I just lack social skills; mainly I think my problem is that I don't pick up on nonverbal social cues, which is supposedly very important in dating.

I've read a lot of material about dating: double your dating, real world seduction, path to alpha male, weapons of seduction, a couple other books, threads in this forum, online articles... I understand all of the concepts, rules and motifs that appear everywhere very well on an intellectual level. I have helped other guys gets women before, in real life and on the Internet, but I just can't do it myself.

My main problem is conversation. I can go out knowing/applying everything that you're supposed to know and girls are very interested in me. I just can't keep it going. It's like I hit autistic moments that make things go bad. So they always start enthusiastic and then get disappointed when they realize that I'm not "all there" or something.

Several articles point out exactly what my problem is:
http://www.sosuave.com/romance/david/art77.htm

BEING SOCIALLY ADJUSTED

I know that this sounds funny, but most of the people I know who are "UN-cool" are not very adjusted socially.

They lack a certain something in the "social skills" department that makes it OBVIOUS to others (and especially women) that they don't know how to relate very well to other people. They just never learned how to make others feel comfortable around them.

If you've ever known an accountant or computer programmer that was brilliantly smart, but totally boring, you know what I mean.

If people act kind of nervous, strange, and uncomfortable when they're around you, then you also know where I'm coming from on this.

I can't teach you how to make people feel comfortable around you in two sentences, but if you need to learn how to mix with people socially, then start PAYING ATTENTION to what's going on around you.

Watch how others dress, hold themselves, walk, and talk. Pay attention to little details... like saying "What's up?" when you meet someone new, instead of "Hello, pleased to meet you" and such.

http://www.sosuave.com/romance/david/art69.htm -- Why women reject men and what to about it.

"3. Making a woman nervous with your body language. "
"4. Not understanding a woman's body language and other communication. "

I understand the posture and fashion from number 3 now but it's the same body language from the first article, "making people uncomfortable" -- I do that a lot, and not just with women. It's like if I miss something and don't know how to respond to someone properly it creates social awkwardness. Like they expected me to do something but I didn't. I always know when it's happening because I just get so incredibly confused and can't figure out what to do (I know I should do something, and sometimes I even have a general idea about what exactly I'm supposed to do, I just don't know how to do it).

And this is precisely my problem. I think I "get" everything else, it's just these specifics, and I have no idea how to fix it. Btw at my [old] school (I'm graduating) I'm actually pretty popular or "cool." I don't go out with anyone but people seem to like mel, and this is in comparison to my freshmen year when I was completely clueless. But again I don't have prolonged contact with many people, it's just the couple minutes that I'm around people that I can pull off. I mostly copy things I've done/said in the past, or seen other people do (/ read on the Interent).

I have a couple friends and we hang out relatively often, but I think they've gotten used to me. Most women/people just aren't interested in someone like me. I connect with the "nerds" cause we talk about interesting things. Like when I meet someone who runs Linux I know we'll get along just fine because we can talk about Linux, sco, how Windows totally sucks ass and our school should switch to Linux, etc. This bypasses the whole "small talk" and "chit-chat" that I'm so bad at.


I don't know. I've been at this for three years now, and I've came along way, I've just been stuck at my current "level" of social competence for a while and don't know how to really go any further.

The best advice I have for this is mentioned above, "pay attention." I think I read in double your dating to be "in the hear and now," active, engaging, positive/happy, and when I get into this mood things turn dramatically for the better, but it only goes so far. It just gets exhausting because I have to process all this stuff in my head instead of getting it intuitively. And when I'm completely in tune with everything around sometimes I get sensory overload and have to "shut down" back to myself -- I just can't take in or handle it all.

 

[flyboy]

just keep at it

Hey, dude

I think I have Asperger too, and I had to evolve... what I want to say is that there is hope, just put yourself in the situations, and after a while you will learn to recognize the cues.

The worst that happened to me is that I kicked myself for many opportunities missed - I remember them now and it was so obvious that the chicks really wanted me, sent strong signals, and I just ignored it... so just keep at it, the worst does not seem that bad, does it?

Hope this helps

Flyboy

 

[mastersylar]

As

I was recently diagnosed with AS. It seems that our experiences are pretty much the same. When I was in high school, everyone liked me but I couldn't get a girl and only had one person that I hung out with outside of school.

Anyways, I am 24 now and I just reaching some conclusions in life. I have read through alot of stuff on pick up like Mystery Method, DYD, etc. This is just my opinion--alot of this stuff cannot be learned from a book. I think pick up books are more designed for people with better social skills.

So these are my suggestions.

Try to find a group of people that u would like to hang out with who have a decent amount of girls hanging around them. You can do this by getting an interest in what they like to do. Look at the Alpha male in the group and try to imitate his attitudes and body language. Many times being around socially adapt people can make your social skills better.

Get a hobby like playing the gituar or dirt bike riding. This will make you more of a prize.

Always remember to have fun a parties. I have realized that I have gone to alot of parties where I have been too uptight because my focus was saying the right things.

I would say go to a bar and practice getting rejections but I think you are too young for that. But some clubs have under 21 events, so check those out.

And finally pick up material. Every thing I have told you above should put you on the track to getting better social skills. And once your skills are good then pick up material will make you great.

 

[Falcon]

zefer

First of all, have you actually been diagnosed with autism? Or is this something that you read about and think you might have? There's nothing worse than thinking you are disadvantaged when you're not. Your problems seem normal, everyone experiences social awkwardness from time to time.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

But conversation is just a tool for 'connection'. You can connect without long conversations.

 

[oakraiderz2]

You can learn social skills by reading about them, which is why youre here. Lacking social skills doesnt make you autistic. Learn about human behavior, group dynamics and all that good stuff. Years ago i was in your same position; i would hang out with one or two kids out of school and not really talk to anyone at school. I read, studied and learnt what was on this site and others, and now i pretty much have everything down that i could ever need. Keep reading stuff here and applying it. You can do it cause youre scared and you care what people think. Struggling with conversations is normal, youre not autistic. Ive been there, done that and ive come out fine, and im NOT autistic. Stop giving a **** and start being random. Have fun and youll be good.

 

[zefer]

Thanks for the replies. I didn't know exactly what posting here was going to accomplish but just putting it out there has got me motivated again. I was beginning to think it was impossible.

The worst that happened to me is that I kicked myself for many opportunities missed - I remember them now and it was so obvious that the chicks really wanted me, sent strong signals, and I just ignored it... so just keep at it, the worst does not seem that bad, does it?

I never realized this was going on, it's happened several times in the past. I just got two numbers on graduation night that I probably wouldn't have gotten if it weren't for this response. I figured I'd never see any of them again so it was worth a shot... or it would have turned into a missed opportunity.

One was actually a cold approach -- I never saw her until graduation. She says she's "mostly" a lesbian but I think she's interested (lol not sure what to do about the lesbian thing though but I think I'm on top of things. Maybe she's a little confused or something).

zefer

First of all, have you actually been diagnosed with autism? Or is this something that you read about and think you might have? There's nothing worse than thinking you are disadvantaged when you're not. Your problems seem normal, everyone experiences social awkwardness from time to time.

I was diagnosed in 6th grade. It's not like I want to have it or anything. Asperger's syndrome has turned into the new mental disorder of the year or something -- everyone self-diagnoses over the Internet and most actually want to have it. I think people like how someone with Asperger's is described as being "smart" (it's been dubbed "geek syndrome" be some) -- they think they're too smart for society and that's why "noone understands them." Then you take people who have too much free time and obsess about world of warcraft or magic cards and they think they have the "intense areas of interest" when all they really need are better hobbies or better yet, a life.

I liked it better when nobody knew about the disorder. But that's what happens -- it happened with OCD and bipolar as well. Apparently every girl under the age of 25 has bipolar disorder now.

 

[tmpgstx]

There's also been recent studies linking higher than average Testosterone to Autism. Higher testosteronized Males are often more quiet. I suppose it is where the 'strong silent type' conceptually comes from.

The cure for being quiet? Smile and joke around.

 

[azanon]

I suggest saying no to fictitious disorders. See: http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Asperger_Syndrome

In the past 50 years, its amazing how many new diseases have just been created out of thin air. We've gotten so lazy, instead of working on things that need improvement, we just stamp a disease name on it and then look for pity. IMO, the most abused one is ADD. Someone's kid is behind the others. Oh its not his fault or his parents fault. Its not that he wasn't taught discipline. Its a disorder and thats.... OK.

Reminds me of the Stuart Smiley skits on SNL.

Now full blown debilitating Autism - that's a disorder. And its clearly obvious there's a mental retardation there that can never be fully overcome.

zefer, how bout telling your mom and doctor to go shove the asperger's up their ass. Who the hell is normal anyway?

 

[Tha Realnezz]

Well my neighbor has that or whatever you call it "mild autism" and he's married and has a kid ..sooo...I dunno...he is handsome though so there might be your an answer..

I suggest older women for now,who are more likley to be understanding and maybe discussing this with your medical team..

 

[MacDiddy]

Discussing your problems or medical psycho etc.. condition with chicks is not the way to go. Their dream in life is to find "good" sperm... not faulty ones, so don't discuss any of your faults of negatives.

Anyway, you seems to be able to converse on line alright, so why can't it be converted to social settings. Did it take a lot of effort to write online?

 

[L777]

This may be one scenario where Mystery Mthod or something similar would be best....ya know, routines and stuff.

Can you sort of 'evolve' past this syndrome? Like, if you practice enough, being a good conversationalist becomes so engrained in you that you can get women no problem?

I would try using routines for now and trying to overcome this thing in the long run.

 

[oakraiderz2]

Exactly how qualified are you as a psychiatrist?

If not then who the fvck are you to say that AS is a made up condition. I have a friend with AS and believe me it's a real condition.

I guess disorders like Schizophrenia and depression are made up out of convenience

I think what he means is that its hard to distinguish whether its as prominent as it appears to be. For example, more kids are diagnosed with ADD than really have it. Theres a fine line between having these diseases and not having them, a matter of objectivity.

 

[zefer]

This may be one scenario where Mystery Mthod or something similar would be best....ya know, routines and stuff.

...

I would try using routines for now and trying to overcome this thing in the long run.

That sounds perfect, actually. I really like Real World Seduction and one of the reasons is because it gives you examples of things to do. Some of my best "lines" came out of it -- not necessarily for hitting on girls but jokes like "There should be a law against fat people wearing spandex" (preferably while referring to someone in particular, warlking by on the street or something). And then according to the book after she laughs you scold her and tell her to be nice, then 'pull her back' (push->pull) "No I agree, it is ****ing funny...She should know better than to wear spandex in public." I don't know how many times I've used that but it always works really well.

Another one that works pretty well with a "funny" neg is after negging her (or ****y+funny) tell her that it's really sad she's laughing at herself. Then start laughing again and tell her that it is actually pretty funny.

I was reading that mystery method is getting "outdated" because most women know the pickup lines and such after other guys have used them (and I would contend the same thing for real world seduction as well). But where I'm at I really think I could use a lot of it because most women my age probably haven't heard all of this. And I guess you can modify routines and all that -- I never use the exact stuff from Real World Seduction anyway, it just gives you good ideas to use. David DeAngelo even warns against memorizing pickup lines and such because it's all about your inner game instead of your outer game, but I found the canned stuff really useful (as long as you know what's going on and have the right attitude).

Can you sort of 'evolve' past this syndrome? Like, if you practice enough, being a good conversationalist becomes so engrained in you that you can get women no problem?

Some people on these forums have autism and they get women fine. It seems like the older I get the less "autistic" I am but I don't think it's something you can get rid of. I just take longer to pick up on social things I guess. Autism is a developmental disorder meaning something in the brain doesn't develop the way it should (it is a physical, visible problem in the brain, not a "psychological" one -- autism is on the nature side instead of nurture).

tmpgstx up there is right about the higher testosterone levels. In The Essential Difference: The Truth About the Male and Female Brain, Simon Baron-Cohen hypothesizes that autism is really an example of an extreme male brain. Testosterone isn't the real problem though, it's higher levels of androgen on the right side of the body during development that causes most of the problems. Androgen is a steroid which has the effect of making things bigger, and it creates a "right" dominated brain. Of course there are lots of causes for autism and scientists aren't completely sure exactly the mechanisms, especially considering that there are so many different types of autism, but higher levels of testosterone and androgen are one factor/characteristic.

Anyway, you seems to be able to converse on line alright, so why can't it be converted to social settings. Did it take a lot of effort to write online?

I can talk just fine, that's not really the problem. Witting/reading is actually a whole lot easier then talking though (wiki. I need to get better at social "chit chat," small talk, and things of that nature. Just the typical problems associated with asperger's syndrome; you can read about it online.

I think what he means is that its hard to distinguish whether its as prominent as it appears to be. For example, more kids are diagnosed with ADD than really have it. Theres a fine line between having these diseases and not having them, a matter of objectivity.

There's a really big problem with psychiatry right now because psychiatrists literally get paid to diagnose people and fill out prescriptions. This shouldn't discredit our psychological (read: not psychiatry) understanding of mental disorders though. You really don't understand what it's like to have autism, and I think I actually do pretty well despite it; unlike all the losers on IRC wrongplanet -- jump on freenodes #wrongplanet to see what I mean. Not everyone is bad but most of them use AS as an excuse and they fall into the trap of what's known as "adopting the patient role," which just makes things worse for them. It's really pretty pathetic IMO.

Btw although ad/hd is overdiagnosed, asperger's syndrome is actually thought to be underdiagnosed. And there's no medication or cure for it either so it's not like there's an incentive to tell people they have autism/aspergers when they really don't.

 

[chancer]

You'll get it if you keep at it. Don't get me wrong, some people with autism reach limits where they just don't learn anymore. You seem very intelligent, capable and willing to learn. I work with kids who have autism. Those that seem to improve on there social skills are the ones who keep at it and go through repetition. So keep doing what you're doing.

 

[Latinoman]

Zefer, I don't see how that kind of autism is going to damage your chances as a little level of "coldness" now a days seems to attrack some women. As long as you have some funny on you too.

I think you have the same issues as other men when it comes to attracking women.

 

[azanon]

Exactly how qualified are you as a psychiatrist?

If not then who the fvck are you to say that AS is a made up condition. I have a friend with AS and believe me it's a real condition.

I guess disorders like Schizophrenia and depression are made up out of convenience

A psychiatrist is going to support all of these conditions; they like that paycheck and it keeps them in business.

Schizophrenia is serious and rare, apples and oranges and not applicable to this discussion.
Depression is another abused diagnosis. Some people genuinely have a disease, many others just need to man up and "grab life by the horns".

I think many people want those labels/diagnoses (like clinical depression or asperger's) so they can feel sorry for themselves. The worst tragedy of it is, it gives a great excuse to do absolutely nothing about it other than having the "disorder" card to play everytime something doesnt work out perfectly. Worse, these psychiatrist diagnosisng these "conditions" often perscribe "mind-altering" drugs to fix a mind that's already supposedly not in balance; .. so what's wrong with this picture?

So you're mad i'm not going to join the pity party? Sorry, you can count me out.

 

[COD]

my name is peter...........pecker........pecker............peter williams and I love talking to women.........wet vagina........sometimes I can make them laugh while other times I........I ................I...................boobies............I......make them think.

Dude, the fact that you can get dates............is truly amazing. Just do stuff in crowds where its less noticable. Remember Dueuce Bigalo the male Gigalo..he took a chic with tyrett syndrome to a baseball game. Do stuff where you can get all silly (dancing in a crowd, going to a baseball game, goto a pep rally, peace march, etc).


have you ever checked out the book DaVagina Code.............google it

 

[mastersylar]

zefer,

I think I have found resources that might help you. One of them is a website with free advice on how improve social skills: www.howtobecooler.com

The others are ebooks on how to improve social skills altogether: http://www.popularprick.com/index.htm
and



I haven't tried any of these books but when I get the money I am going to buy them. I have been on howtobecooler.com and it gives a lot of good "practical" advise.

 

[nolocus]

I found marijuana helpful in noticing and learning subtle social behaviors.

If drugs give you no insights I suggest you try internet dating or find an Aspergers Syndrome message board and try to set up dates with others similar to yourself. I dunno, there's probably a dating website out their specifically for those with mental illnesses/disorders.