"You Can't Argue a Woman Into Liking You"

You made your case like a lawyer. Stable job. Good guy. Ready for something real. All true. All irrelevant.

She weighed your points, nodded along, felt nothing — then fell hard for some tattooed bartender with a motorcycle and a gambling problem.

Logic is where attraction goes to die. The "22 Rules" work a level deeper, on the subconscious switches that decide within minutes whether you register as a MAN or as part of the furniture.

Stop presenting evidence. Start flipping switches.

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article: Why PUA ultimately failed

MatureDJ

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While it did to some extent inspire me in a way to take action by approaching women who were strangers, I found that a lot of what PUA preached has been a failure and would not recommend that to any guy starting out. So why did it fail?

Because it was ultimately a gimmick that might have made men bolder but also made them weirder, ignoring the importance of making the guy himself attractive and socially aware.
 

"She Made Her Decision Before You Finished Your Sentence"

Three seconds. That's how long it took. Your shoes. Your posture. The way you held your drink. Whether you looked at the floor or looked at her.

She already filed you away. Interesting. Boring. Safe. Bold. Before you even opened your mouth.

Everything you say after that is just her confirming what she already decided.

So stop rehearsing lines. Fix the first three seconds. Stand tall. Look up. Smile like you mean it. Walk like you belong wherever you're standing.

The words come later. The impression comes first.

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mrgoodstuff

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There's nothing inherently "weird" or "normal" in a woman's mind.

Anything a good looking guy says or does is either "cool" or "funny" or at the very worst tolerable.

Anything an ugly guy says is automatically labeled as "dorky" "inappropriate" or "harassment."
Depends on if "ugly" guy is part of the social circle. Guys wonder how the heavy or not so good looking guy has all this action. Turns out he was in the right frat or social circle.
 

MatureDJ

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There's nothing inherently "weird" or "normal" in a woman's mind.

Anything a good looking guy says or does is either "cool" or "funny" or at the very worst tolerable.

Anything an ugly guy says is automatically labeled as "dorky" "inappropriate" or "harassment."
But the whole idea of PUA is that by using it, an ugly/short man could "ascend". If the number of women that one gets is the same whether he used PUA techniques or not, what's the point of learning it?
 

"She Wants a Man, Not a Boy"

You asked her if she wanted to grab coffee. Then you asked if the time worked. Then you asked if the place was okay. Then you asked if she'd prefer tea.

Four questions. Four chances for her to say no. Four signals that you're terrified of making a decision.

Plan it. Pick the place. Pick the time. Tell her where to meet you. She'll either show up or she won't.

Either way, you look like a man instead of a scared little boy.

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GioWolf

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But the whole idea of PUA is that by using it, an ugly/short man could "ascend". If the number of women that one gets is the same whether he used PUA techniques or not, what's the point of learning it?
I believe in using PUA techniques as a toolbox to beak out when necessary. For example, false time constraints could help you be less creepy than standing there awkwardly interviewing a woman. If you are a short/ugly dude, you have to be realistic and go for an equivalent SMV woman. If you are short/ugly, I would say you absolutely need to learn things to control your “creepy factor”. PUA techniques mostly come off as cringy when a new guy with anxiety/no confidence pukes out some canned lines. No matter what you look like, anxiety is a vagina dryer. Having some PUA tools ready when you need them could help reduce anxiety.
 

VictorSleazy

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Game is just deeper in total. PUA is more like a scratch of the surface. Maybe people are also more self aware.
 

Georgepithyou

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You use game when she isnt already attracted to you to try and raise it by showing your other attributes.
 
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mickdollaz

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It's a failure across the board.
"Coaches" are out of business, voluntarily and involuntarily.
The vast majority of "pua's" fail, unless picking up landwhales and 1/10's count as success.
It is a failure from a cultural perspective as well, as those involved are universally derided as creepy.

It was only a "success" to the scammers who made millions off of naive, desperate guys.
 

"I just moved here from Florida."

That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?

She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."

She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.

I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.

Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.

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mrgoodstuff

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It's a failure across the board.
"Coaches" are out of business, voluntarily and involuntarily.
The vast majority of "pua's" fail, unless picking up landwhales and 1/10's count as success.
It is a failure from a cultural perspective as well, as those involved are universally derided as creepy.

It was only a "success" to the scammers who made millions off of naive, desperate guys.
Hell they call a man focused on his purpose creepy. And we just got educated that red pill men are assumed to be heavy consumers of drugs and alcohol. Most of them involved in the male female divide will be excessively and harshly labelling males.
 

forcerecon01

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I don't really care if Pua material is out there. Will I pay for their help ? Hell no. Their tips are useful though especially for asian men. JT Tran works specifically with asian men and he sometimes gives out free material. Also sosuave already has a wealth of information thats free. Why pay wasting your resources. Makes no sense
 

"I just moved here from Florida."

That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?

She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."

She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.

I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.

Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.

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MatureDJ

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It's a failure across the board.
"Coaches" are out of business, voluntarily and involuntarily.
The vast majority of "pua's" fail, unless picking up landwhales and 1/10's count as success.
It is a failure from a cultural perspective as well, as those involved are universally derided as creepy.

It was only a "success" to the scammers who made millions off of naive, desperate guys.
Based. :up:
 

Mike32ct

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But the whole idea of PUA is that by using it, an ugly/short man could "ascend". If the number of women that one gets is the same whether he used PUA techniques or not, what's the point of learning it?
Agreed.

But for some guys, especially the ugly ones, the PUA fad gave them “permission” to play a numbers game. It wasn’t the techniques. It was being told by gurus that it’s OK to approach women.

They might have needed 200 approaches just for one mediocre lay, but it’s Pyrrhic victory or NO victory for certain men

It was absolutely a big scam in the commercial $$ sense. The only good that came out of it was getting guys to go out and try. They either succeeded, or they got an advanced blackpill education lol.

I just feel bad for guys that wasted a lot of money on it. Or those that got addicted to it and wasted a lot of time too.

*Covid stuff aside, ugly guys can’t mass approach anymore. But they could get away with mass approaches 15 years ago.
 
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Spaz

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PUA will never work, simply because its all an act that you cannot sustain 24/7.

It is not congruent with the inherent frame of a nerd.

It is however congruent with those who are emotionally heightened, those that's an expressive personality. However it would only work in the beginning but fail horribly because men with an expressive personality, deep down seeks undying love, which given their own personality, will turn off women.
 

skinnyguy

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Agreed.

But for some guys, especially the ugly ones, the PUA fad gave them “permission” to play a numbers game. It wasn’t the techniques. It was being told by gurus that it’s OK to approach women.

They might have needed 200 approaches just for one mediocre lay, but it’s Pyrrhic victory or NO victory for certain men

It was absolutely a big scam in the commercial $$ sense. The only good that came out of it was getting guys to go out and try. They either succeeded, or they got an advanced blackpill education lol.

I just feel bad for guys that wasted a lot of money on it. Or those that got addicted to it and wasted a lot of time too.

*Covid stuff aside, ugly guys can’t mass approach anymore. But they could get away with mass approaches 15 years ago.
That's why I kind of disagree with this thread. PUA didn't fail for the guys promoting it - it made a lot of many for some companies who sold the product because they found a weakness in people which the exploited to their benefit.

It didn't fail. Men increased their amount of sexual encounters, which was the goal.
If a guy gets one lay out of 100 approaches, is that considered good or bad?
 

Mike32ct

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If a guy gets one lay out of 100 approaches, is that considered good or bad?
Some gurus used to estimate about 1 in 10 for a top notch PUA. I think 1 in 100 was considered a number for an average guy with no particular “skill.”

In the old days, 1 in 100 wasn’t bad. If he met 8 women a week (say four twice per week), that’s one lay every three months. But it’s still a lot of time, money and hearing loss in the loud clubs lol.
 

“The 22 Rules That Flip the Script With Women… And How You Can Use Them Tonight”

Most guys accidentally kill attraction before they even speak. They assume they need a bigger bank account, a better physique, or smoother lines. They miss the point.

Female desire operates on a specific set of psychological triggers.  Break them, and you're invisible. Follow them, and you become magnetic.

I learned this the hard way. Years of freezing up. Getting friend-zoned. Watching other guys walk away with the girl I wanted. Then I discovered a set of 22 simple rules that rewired my entire approach.

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