Are there ways i can get her or should i just leave it?

[pete101]

There's a younger HB who i really like in my weekly activity group but my first impression wasn't great (had health issues at the time so my confidence was low and neediness was high), I'm over it now but i can't make headway after such a bad first impression (also i think the age gap may creep her out a bit).

My value is high in the group the other HB's better looking than her all like me, i tried using this to make her jealous with mixed results but essentially i cant make any headway with her.

It isnt cos she rejected me that i want her, i want her regardless (i think cos i like her too much is why i cant hold my nerve whereas with the other HB in the groups i can be myself as i dont care)

We meet up week to week with new HB's joining each week from time to time so my social proof is relatively high (assuming every one turns up)

Is the rule still if she wasnt into you from the start (even if i made a bad first impression) then you should not pursue it long term as she never liked you from the start?

Are there any things i can do to try get her? Im patient i can wait play her off the other HB's, act not interested anymore and not let her back in until she keeps chasing.

This isn't just a s*x thing, she is from same background as me so ticks a lot of boxes (and i think she sensed me ticking boxes in my head)

She is still hung up over her ex, heart broken, grieving over a year now so navigating this also tricky.

 

[Clockwerk50]

I believe we need better context or more information to assess the situation more accurately.

What do you mean when you say your first impression “wasn’t great”? What exactly did you do? What do you mean by saying you can’t make headway? For example, what have you tried so far?

Truthfully, it may come down to the fact that you’re not her type, she’s not buying what you’re selling, you don’t have what she lacks or can’t get on her own, or her ex has qualities or a higher SMV than yours. If she’s unhappy and heartbroken as you say she is, she should be easy prey.

 

[pete101]

I believe we need better context or more information to assess the situation more accurately.

What do you mean when you say your first impression “wasn’t great”? What exactly did you do? What do you mean by saying you can’t make headway? For example, what have you tried so far?

Truthfully, it may come down to the fact that you’re not her type, she’s not buying what you’re selling, you don’t have what she lacks or can’t get on her own, or her ex has qualities or a higher SMV than yours. If she’s unhappy and heartbroken as you say she is, she should be easy prey.

When we met i was very stressed as had health issues so was low on confidence, needy, nervous.. things that put women off.

After a few weeks my health has improved so im back to my confident self but the damage is done. Too needy. Every time i try to make convo with her she is just guarded defensive not willing to make small talk.

I remember initallt she was fine the first 2 times then i noticed after that the week after she was in a bad mood and ill.

It is cold now so i dont think I'll be seeing her for a while as it is an outdoor activity but again i think it is too late.

If she is unwilling to make small talk and guarded i cant really make headway. The push pull thing

All i have at my disposal are other HB's as social proof to raise my value, they like me, she doesn't so you would think she might get jealous im not giving her any attention anymore.

But im so far on the backfoot i realise now even if i see her again she may not make small talk so i have to start from a position of not trying it anymore and just give my attention to the other HB's as she missed her chance and not give her it when she tries to reach out.

Im her type looks wise just maybe 10-15 years ago lol. Just im a lot older than her and she is a bit creeped out i guess with an older guy hitting on her.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Honestly think you are way too focused on things that YOU feel and attributing them to her.

Remember, people who don't know you typically don't really care that much about you, they are far more interested in themselves and what they have going on.

I think you are already way way overthinking this whole situation and in your head before anything has even really happened and care far too much about the outcome which is the absolute worst place you can be and typically drives poor results.

You want to make headway with her? Take your time and attention away from her and start focusing it on other women.

Stop trying to figure out how to chase her and let her chase you.

 

[Clockwerk50]

When we met i was very stressed as had health issues so was low on confidence, needy, nervous.. things that put women off.

After a few weeks my health has improved so im back to my confident self but the damage is done. Too needy. Every time i try to make convo with her she is just guarded defensive not willing to make small talk.

I remember initallt she was fine the first 2 times then i noticed after that the week after she was in a bad mood and ill.

It is cold now so i dont think I'll be seeing her for a while as it is an outdoor activity but again i think it is too late.

If she is unwilling to make small talk and guarded i cant really make headway. The push pull thing

All i have at my disposal are other HB's as social proof to raise my value, they like me, she doesn't so you would think she might get jealous im not giving her any attention anymore.

But im so far on the backfoot i realise now even if i see her again she may not make small talk so i have to start from a position of not trying it anymore and just give my attention to the other HB's as she missed her chance and not give her it when she tries to reach out.

Im her type looks wise just maybe 10-15 years ago lol. Just im a lot older than her and she is a bit creeped out i guess with an older guy hitting on her.

Some people are simply inaccessible, and no matter what you do, you can’t change that. You can’t force someone to be interested just because you want them to be. Trying to force it only wastes your time. Attraction can’t be negotiated, and sometimes it’s just a matter of who you are, who they are, and timing.

Focus on people who respond to you naturally, but if you really want to know, the simplest way is to just ask her out.

 

[plumber]

OP, i understand your question. suggest you abandon.. really. pick from one of the women that you see chasseing you. pick the best of those and test/experiment to see if its good. just ignore this special one... kryptonite. your going to feel better and be more healthy if you choose from those that choose you.

you have abundance it sounds like, enjoy it. and this special one may move into the group that wants you later. that's the perfect time to take a shot.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

OP, i understand your question. suggest you abandon.. really. pick from one of the women that you see chasseing you. pick the best of those and test/experiment to see if its good. just ignore this special one... kryptonite. your going to feel better and be more healthy if you choose from those that choose you.

you have abundance it sounds like, enjoy it. and this special one may move into the group that wants you later. that's the perfect time to take a shot.

The key lesson is she isn't special. Just on a pedestal OP decided to put her on.

 

[pete101]

OP, i understand your question. suggest you abandon.. really. pick from one of the women that you see chasseing you. pick the best of those and test/experiment to see if its good. just ignore this special one... kryptonite. your going to feel better and be more healthy if you choose from those that choose you.

you have abundance it sounds like, enjoy it. and this special one may move into the group that wants you later. that's the perfect time to take a shot.

I mean i can just pull away just as said tactically i didn't make a good first impression and now im backtracking

If i was starting from fresh i could do all things necessary to attract her but im on the backfoot now

 

[characternote]

What's the activity group?
How old is she and how old are you??

You can’t force someone to be interested. Trying to force it only wastes your time. Attraction can’t be negotiated

This is basically the answer though lol. Obviously a very different answer than would have been the consensus on this site and others like it 20 years ago, but it's basically the truth

This is why i'm actually kind of surprised that the whole PUA industry is still hanging on. Even most of the coaches have backtracked on their views and stuff so much in recent times (even jeffyRSD admitted recently that you basically need her physical attraction to have a shot) that i'm curious about what they're selling at this point lol. I guess in their defence they're teaching you how to bang the girls who want to bang you - although i'd argue that you really don't need to do more than glance a pickup book for 10 mins to get to that 'level'. It should be quite effortless

 

[BackInTheGame78]

What's the activity group?
How old is she and how old are you??



This is basically the answer though lol. Obviously a very different answer than would have been the consensus on this site and others like it 20 years ago, but it's basically the truth

This is why i'm actually kind of surprised that the whole PUA industry is still hanging on. Even most of the coaches have backtracked on their views and stuff so much in recent times (even jeffyRSD admitted recently that you basically need her physical attraction to have a shot) that i'm curious about what they're selling at this point lol. I guess in their defence they're teaching you how to bang the girls who want to bang you - although i'd argue that you really don't need to do more than glance a pickup book for 10 mins to get to that 'level'. It should be quite effortless

I'm guessing where they help the most are with the women who are in the "fence sitting" range...where you are attractive enough to bang them but you need to show them why it's a good idea.

If we are talking about the average guy, the majority of women would be in this range. You might have 3 "Hell No's", 2 "Hell yeah" and the other 5 are going to be somewhere in the "ehh....maybe" category.

Most guys convert more "maybe's" into "No", or don't even try, and they are trying to help convert the "maybe's" into "Yes" more frequently.

In most cases, the average guy is capable of getting women they would consider "out of their league" looks wise, they just don't believe they can so they don't try. One of the biggest revelations to me was when I started trying was that I found that I was far more successful than I thought I'd be.

You don't need to be equal in looks for a woman to fvck or date you...you just need to pass whatever her minimum qualifications for looks is, which is different for each women.

 

[characternote]

I'm guessing where they help the most are with the women who are in the "fence sitting" range...where you are attractive enough to bang them but you need to show them why it's a good idea.

If we are talking about the average guy, the majority of women would be in this range. You might have 3 "Hell No's", 2 "Hell yeah" and the other 5 are going to be somewhere in the "ehh....maybe" category.

Most guys convert more "maybe's" into "No", or don't even try, and they are trying to help convert the "maybe's" into "Yes" more frequently.

In most cases, the average guy is capable of getting women they would consider "out of their league" looks wise, they just don't believe they can so they don't try. One of the biggest revelations to me was when I started trying was that I found that I was far more successful than I thought I'd be.

You don't need to be equal in looks for a woman to fvck or date you...you just need to pass whatever her minimum qualifications for looks is, which is different for each women.

I do partly agree with you, although I also think you're maybe slightly too optimistic about some girls thresholds etc. By that, I mean I often see guys (usually a fair bit older) trying to hit in extremely pretty 18 year olds in the bars where I live. They're not objectively super 'ugly' or hideous or anything - more or less regular looking guys, but they have close to zero chance with these girls and it's so obvious within a split second. I guess it's partly about being realistic and picking your battles. I'm guilty myself of this as i've always had a thing for girls WAY younger than me who are super pretty and i've had some decent success, but i've had to eat a metric tonne of rejection along the way. And my 'game' was never the issue, despite what some 'PUA' might tell me if I told him I got 20 'hell No's' in a row last night lol!

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I do partly agree with you, although I also think you're maybe slightly too optimistic about some girls thresholds etc. By that, I mean I often see guys (usually a fair bit older) trying to hit in extremely pretty 18 year olds in the bars where I live. They're not objectively super 'ugly' or hideous or anything - more or less regular looking guys, but they have close to zero chance with these girls and it's so obvious within a split second. I guess it's partly about being realistic and picking your battles. I'm guilty myself of this as i've always had a thing for girls WAY younger than me who are super pretty and i've had some decent success, but i've had to eat a metric tonne of rejection along the way. And my 'game' was never the issue, despite what some 'PUA' might tell me if I told him I got 20 'hell No's' in a row last night lol!

Personally, I think those are situations where they are set up to fail. Many women in those places have their guard way up and even if you are good looking they might still shut you down.

What's always worked best for me in those places is to simply hang out by the bar and mind my own business and then randomly strike up conversations about "whatever" might be happening or the drink if it's something interesting, etc...

Ironically one of the best openers is to laugh about a guy who she has just shut down, and say something like "That guy never had a chance did he?" And start laughing...

This will lead to a lot of easy conversations because you are not overtly setting off alarms by trying to come in thru the front door where you are expected to be coming in and they are alert for...instead you are doing the equivalent of sneaking in through a bedroom window in the back of the house undetected at night while nobody is home...

And then once she becomes comfortable talking with you for a few minutes you can take the conversation on whatever direction you want.

 

[pete101]

What's the activity group?
How old is she and how old are you??



This is basically the answer though lol. Obviously a very different answer than would have been the consensus on this site and others like it 20 years ago, but it's basically the truth

This is why i'm actually kind of surprised that the whole PUA industry is still hanging on. Even most of the coaches have backtracked on their views and stuff so much in recent times (even jeffyRSD admitted recently that you basically need her physical attraction to have a shot) that i'm curious about what they're selling at this point lol. I guess in their defence they're teaching you how to bang the girls who want to bang you - although i'd argue that you really don't need to do more than glance a pickup book for 10 mins to get to that 'level'. It should be quite effortless

Just an outdoor sports activity

Im late 30s she is in her early 20s, yes age difference is big but the other 20 something year olds in the group like me and younger than her

 

[pete101]

I'm guessing where they help the most are with the women who are in the "fence sitting" range...where you are attractive enough to bang them but you need to show them why it's a good idea.

If we are talking about the average guy, the majority of women would be in this range. You might have 3 "Hell No's", 2 "Hell yeah" and the other 5 are going to be somewhere in the "ehh....maybe" category.

Most guys convert more "maybe's" into "No", or don't even try, and they are trying to help convert the "maybe's" into "Yes" more frequently.

In most cases, the average guy is capable of getting women they would consider "out of their league" looks wise, they just don't believe they can so they don't try. One of the biggest revelations to me was when I started trying was that I found that I was far more successful than I thought I'd be.

You don't need to be equal in looks for a woman to fvck or date you...you just need to pass whatever her minimum qualifications for looks is, which is different for each women.

What other things should be ticked if you pass the looks thing?

 

[pete101]

I do partly agree with you, although I also think you're maybe slightly too optimistic about some girls thresholds etc. By that, I mean I often see guys (usually a fair bit older) trying to hit in extremely pretty 18 year olds in the bars where I live. They're not objectively super 'ugly' or hideous or anything - more or less regular looking guys, but they have close to zero chance with these girls and it's so obvious within a split second. I guess it's partly about being realistic and picking your battles. I'm guilty myself of this as i've always had a thing for girls WAY younger than me who are super pretty and i've had some decent success, but i've had to eat a metric tonne of rejection along the way. And my 'game' was never the issue, despite what some 'PUA' might tell me if I told him I got 20 'hell No's' in a row last night lol!

Is it cos lot of younger women dont have daddy issues so repulsed and creeped out by an older guy hitting on her? Which is what im experiencing.. whereas i feel if i lay off a bit she might start to relax a bit and it isnt as if i have one chance i see her most weeks but again also someone else she does like potentially will snap her up so im really far away from getting anywhere but it is ok if it happens it happens i just need to sit back

 

[BackInTheGame78]

What other things should be ticked if you pass the looks thing?

In terms of what? I'm not sure I understand what you are asking.

 

[pete101]

In terms of what? I'm not sure I understand what you are asking.

You said looks quotient

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

Hi Pete. You honestly are being really obtuse and opaque here. Why not start off with your post like this.....

Ex: So I'm 38 and dig this 23 year old from sand volleyball league....I got off to a bad start cause I was laid up with a torn ankle ligament & wearing a boot....

See how such details immediately give us information and context to help craft useful responses?

You are talking around so many things that you are making it really tough to help you.

Are you in a team activity, like softball, an individual activity with social overtones, like skating or skydiving or bowling, or social activity like hiking or sand volleyball?

The context matters and will help us help you.

 

[oOh Nasty]

Only read the original post so far so i'll reply with that in mind.

OP. It says you've been registered to this forum since 2006. If you've been lurking, then you should know that this path you're on is you diving headfirst into one-itis. I think women are inherently good at reading neediness no matter what level of neediness it is. And, I think a newbie mistake that 99.9% of men make is that they think they can mask their neediness. While you can make attempts at trying to hide one-itis and neediness, it always ends up showing in your body language, tone of voice, any actions that don't involve conscious thought, etc.

So, your best bet would be to just abort mission and go for one of the HBs that actually give you attention. Because you probably don't know that you're turning her off in some way or form, even if you think you're doing everything right and doing your best at masking what you really feel and think. You have to win in your mind first - actually not GAF before you can make any progress with this chick. Until your mind is right and you're not seeing her as some kind of unicorn, every action taken in regards to her will be counterproductive.

 

[pete101]

Only read the original post so far so i'll reply with that in mind.

OP. It says you've been registered to this forum since 2006. If you've been lurking, then you should know that this path you're on is you diving headfirst into one-itis. I think women are inherently good at reading neediness no matter what level of neediness it is. And, I think a newbie mistake that 99.9% of men make is that they think they can mask their neediness. While you can make attempts at trying to hide one-itis and neediness, it always ends up showing in your body language, tone of voice, any actions that don't involve conscious thought, etc.

So, your best bet would be to just abort mission and go for one of the HBs that actually give you attention. Because you probably don't know that you're turning her off in some way or form, even if you think you're doing everything right and doing your best at masking what you really feel and think. You have to win in your mind first - actually not GAF before you can make any progress with this chick. Until your mind is right and you're not seeing her as some kind of unicorn, every action taken in regards to her will be counterproductive.

Yes i hear you loud and clear.

So she actually came today and was in a good mood super receptive and friendly unlike the last time i saw her.

Her mood is very up and down depending on how cold it is or whatever is happening.

I haven't seen her in a month so was wary about being overly keen like last time.

I played it cool flirted a little bit. I just noticed due to her mood swings i cant predict what she is going to like.

I'm not really chasing her anymore maybe she sensed that even though I still feel im being needy.