Are men dropping off from the dating business?

[corrector]

it's extremely easy if you are her type tbh lol.

edit: I was talking to someone on seddit earlier who was talking about what a slayer he is (150 lays per year. Models. blablabla) and how he's 'advanced' and has a special skillset. When I pushed him on details and what his approach looks like he basically said 'I just say hi. I try to get a convo going and ask them some questions about themselves. Then I either get their IG (and then she comes round to bang after I DM her a few days later), or I just escalate on her that night and go for the same night lay'

It's like, "skillset?!" - everyone wants to believe that they are doing something special lol. This guy was running 'basic social exchange' game basically lol. Nothing that 99% of men can't do. If you've ever made a friend in your life, you can do what he done ("skillset") - But most men, with some young model, would never get the IG. The attraction. The lay, doing what he done. Nothing he actually 'done' lead to his success

Exactly. When you are dealing with high-interested women then they make it super-easy for you (ie if they are not pursuing themselves). That's why I've mentioned, its less game to deal with a high-interested woman than dealing with a prostitute. While the notion runs contrary to the board (ie a prostitute doesn't need game)...I think even they need some basic game as they typically screen their clients or people they are talking to whereas a high-interested woman doesnt' screen anything. A prostitute is also not really motivated genuinely to see a guy, they more likely want the money or are seeing things as work to them. A high-interested woman (ie especially a chad-looks-hor) wants the chad-guy.

How this reads to me? A guy who needs LESS game than it takes for a guy to book a prostitute is bragging about a skillset? That's a joke.

 

[Slowhandluke]

You're missing the point, how many men have the skillset or ability to get women to come straight to their house consistently? I didn't post this to impress people, but it's illuminating to see men who can do this consistently or my other friend who went on 25 dates a month. Averages 10-20 matches a day etc.

We have a lot of guys on this forum who struggle and there is another side, that's all I'm saying

You must be new around here . Without rules, you will have more women on the edge cases (e.g., llily Phillips, Bonnie Blue, etc) who will sleep with thousands of guys. Without rules, you will have more men on the edge cases that have the means and ability (looks, money, charm, whatever, etc.) that can sleep with a 1000s of women.

If society rein them in; the body count will go down; the number of dates will go down. But currently, society does not because society has been corrupted by feminism, the girl power movement, etc. I guess I'm not surprise. Society has told people to sleep with other people to "test them out for sexual compatibility"... or "leave him" when a person does the slightest thing wrong/inconvenient. Society tells women they deserve the "very best", when they themselves are just average.

Just think about it. I heard like something like 70% of males under the age of 30 was virgin.... But only like 5% of women. Do the math. There are some guys getting all the women (we call them chads/tyrones), and there are average men who get nothing. Not to mention the body count. Most guys under the average of 30 has the body count of 0; but women have the body count of like 10... Do the math. What's the probability some Chad is doing all the "love making"??????? What percent of the guys are getting most of the girls? On average the guys that are getting the girls, what is their body count? How many dates do you think they are getting.

It's not "illuminating" to me that a few guys are getting most of the women. I did the math a while back. Perhaps I was shocked them, I am definitely not now.

Lets do the math now:
Assume a populations size of 10 women and 10 guys.
70% of the guys are virgins... so 7 of the guys have NEVER had sex; but 3 has.
Now, only 5% of women under 30 are virgins. So lets round that up to 10%.
So almost all of the women have had sex except for 1 woman. So the 3 guys are having
sex with basically all of the women (except for 1 woman if we round up).

Now for any give time, 3 guys are basically having sex with almost all of the chicks. But this is only for an instance of time,
people break up and form new relationships. So how long does a typical relationship last for? A one night stand? A 6month situationship?
In almost all of these cases, it will come down to a lot of sex happening for the 3 guys, none for the other 7 guys...
and a lot of sex happening for the women (or perhaps a smaller subset of loose women are having more sex with
different men, but the modest women have some sex and then quit -- not sure because they get "burned out"; but still the 7 guys loose out regardless).

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Meh, the lack of testosterone in the younger generation of men with the average now at 422 for the average 22 year old male(same levels at a 70 year old had in the 1960s), and dropping a steady 1% every year for the last 45+ years at least has had deleterious effects on dating and the male mindset of being able to handle "rejection", IMO. Most young men have the mental toughness of a wet noodle these days.

Men acting like women more and more, as their T levels drop lower and lower, what a shocker.

I'm sure plenty will want to pretend this has nothing to do with it but sex hormones have a massive amount to do with how we think, our impulses, our mindsets and how we act. Especially in regards to sex, relationships, and sexual urges to where we "must seek it". Far far more than most people ever realize.

This is very well documented in many studies. It would be akin to saying that people who are 450 lbs are not doing any damage to their health and that's not a reason why they are dying earlier from any number of diseases/conditions. Essentially it's looking at very clear data and choosing to willfully ignore it.

 

[sangheilios]

I guess a lot of is it down to what you see in your own life and our experiences will differ.

Personally, I still feel like a lot of young people are dating. I don't feel like there's been a drastic drop off where I live or amongst my younger cousins and neices and nephews etc. Maybe a small decline at most?

The bigger difference I see is the hookup culture and nightlife being absolutely decimated .

There's certainly still nightlife where I live, and there's tonnes of very hot 18-22 year old girls going out, but the interactions between the sexes is nothing like I remember it being when I was young. It was full of 'mingling'. Cold approaching. Flirting. Groups interacting with other groups etc

When I go out now, it's as if groups of hot girls get all dolled up and look gorgeous, but they just stay in their own little group. The have no interest in meeting anyone. It's just small groups of guys and girls, super closed off in different areas of the bars

And the guys almost never ever approach. (admittedly i'm in Europe and it's probably fair to say that there's always been a stronger cold approach culture in the US compared to much of the world, but it seems even more extreme). On the rare occasions guys approach, it's like 100% an approach on a girl who literally ignores him like he's speaking another language, or shoes him away like he stinks of old cheese lol (extreme rare exceptions being it's a super good looking dude of course). I do think social media has probably made them super selective adn changed the game a bit

I think guys have accepted defeat when it comes to cold approach at least. And guys know that tinder is of course the same. And so I can only assume all of the dating is happening through mutual friends and social activities and college/work

This is something I've witnessed for quite a while now, I remember being at bars and clubs in the years leading up to COVID and seeing the same observations you've described. It's literally women going out together in groups doing their own thing and where there is little to no interaction with others while there, including men. The whole point of them going out and getting done up like that is for attention, whether that be posting on social media for likes or fishing for compliments from their other female friends, etc.

I would imagine it's even worse now, the nightlife scene never recovered from the COVID lockdowns. The younger gen Zs also don't drink like the Millennial generation did, their vice is typically vaping, smoking a lot of weed or even other drugs. This generation is noticeably less social than previous generations, so no surprise that they aren't pulling up to the club lol. It also can be quite expensive to go out, and this age range is also broke AF with little money to spare.

I agree with your comment about men accepting defeat when it comes to cold approach and especially dating apps. I think the dating market has been so awful for men for long enough now where they gave up due to just so many poor experiences that lead to nothing. I also noticed a very strong surge in red pill type content online that seems to have become incredibly popular over the last few years. Myron Gaines from the Fresh and Fit podcast and the Whatever Podcast are two that immediately come to mind. Back in 2019 this stuff was kind of on the fringes, but now it's quite mainstream.

I've also been seeing these weird posts and videos about women complaining about men not approaching them or where no men are showing up for dating events, etc. This implies that a lot of men have literally completely checked out AND it's been going on long enough to where women are being affected by this enough to where they are now openly complaining.

If you are familiar with the fourth turning, it's becoming insanely obvious that much of this has to do with the fact that western civilization is entering into the peak of the crisis phase. Things have been crazy for a while now, but COVID greatly accelerated this and now it's starting to get insanely wild. I actually do spend a lot of time thinking about what society is going to look like in the decades to come, and it's very concerning.

 

[Fortune_favors_the_bold]

Meh, the lack of testosterone in the younger generation of men with the average now at 422 for the average 22 year old male(same levels at a 70 year old had in the 1960s), and dropping a steady 1% every year for the last 45+ years at least has had deleterious effects on dating and the male mindset of being able to handle "rejection", IMO. Most young men have the mental toughness of a wet noodle these days.

Men acting like women more and more, as their T levels drop lower and lower, what a shocker.

I'm sure plenty will want to pretend this has nothing to do with it but sex hormones have a massive amount to do with how we think, our impulses, our mindsets and how we act. Especially in regards to sex, relationships, and sexual urges to where we "must seek it". Far far more than most people ever realize.

This is very well documented in many studies. It would be akin to saying that people who are 450 lbs are not doing any damage to their health and that's not a reason why they are dying earlier from any number of diseases/conditions. Essentially it's looking at very clear data and choosing to willfully ignore it.

I totally agree with you, testosterone strongly influence our behaviours, sexually too.

That's probably the reason why millennial women 20 years ago when they were very young had the chance to be a royal pain in the ass to their guys without strong conseguences, they still had dates and dinners regularly.

Now zoomers have even lower levels and lower libido therefore it doesnt take too much hassle to have them let it go and turn off their phone.
They probably wouldnt mind to bang but as much as to tolerate that amount of ****.

I remember when I was a kid and saw the amount of **** my parents generation men were dealt with in their own houses I always wondered what kept them close to those dumb annoying creature.

I believe women should be the biggest supporter of pro testosterone policies and education toward men, as if their value depended on it.

 

[Slowhandluke]

I totally agree with you, testosterone strongly influence our behaviours, sexually too.

That's probably the reason why millennial women 20 years ago when they were very young had the chance to be a royal pain in the ass to their guys without strong conseguences, they still had dates and dinners regularly.

Now zoomers have even lower levels and lower libido therefore it doesnt take too much hassle to have them let it go and turn off their phone.
They probably wouldnt mind to bang but as much as to tolerate that amount of ****.

I remember when I was a kid and saw the amount of **** my parents generation men were dealt with in their own houses I always wondered what kept them close to those dumb annoying creature.

I believe women should be the biggest supporter of pro testosterone policies and education toward men, as if their value depended on it.

I'm older. I seen multiple generations of young men. They haven't really changed. From personal experience, its not testosterone. What is society going to do? Give young men more testosterone so they can be "roided" up and still be rejected by average women? Because these men have to much "toxic masculinity"?

average women are told to pick the top guys. Give all men more testosterone isnt going to change this fact.

 

[corrector]

I'm older. I seen multiple generations of young men. They haven't really changed. From personal experience, its not testosterone. What is society going to do? Give young men more testosterone so they can be "roided" up and still be rejected by average women? Because these men have to much "toxic masculinity"?

average women are told to pick the top guys. Give all men more testosterone isnt going to change this fact.

Exactly. It will just help fill up jail cells more.

 

[Fortune_favors_the_bold]

I'm older. I seen multiple generations of young men. They haven't really changed. From personal experience, its not testosterone. What is society going to do? Give young men more testosterone so they can be "roided" up and still be rejected by average women? Because these men have to much "toxic masculinity"?

average women are told to pick the top guys. Give all men more testosterone isnt going to change this fact.

Didnt mean that, I was just answering to an other user that suggested a biological reason for a change in behaviour.

Me personally I find ridicolous only thinking about driving to a girls house to pick her up, taking her to a restaurant, being interviewed/bored for a couple of hours at my expenses then driving her home.

Not even if I had a 100% certainity of having sex with her, would consider such ordeal, let alone just a chance.

 

[corrector]

@Cheeky_James, would you like to weigh into this thread? Seem to be a bit silent here, lol

 

[viking22]

It’s the impact of technology it reduces frictions that limited the extent of hookup culture and hypergamy and gives even average looking women options they could only dream of before. Camera filters photoshop flattering angles are also an easy way to inflate their looks online.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I'm older. I seen multiple generations of young men. They haven't really changed. From personal experience, its not testosterone. What is society going to do? Give young men more testosterone so they can be "roided" up and still be rejected by average women? Because these men have to much "toxic masculinity"?

average women are told to pick the top guys. Give all men more testosterone isnt going to change this fact.

"Roided up"? Are you that clueless that you don't understand simply having what are supposed to be "normal" T levels of 600-900 is far different than someone taking enough T to put their levels at 3000+?

My God man...learn what the fvck you are talking about before sounding so ignorant.

And all the data points to you being wrong, so not sure what you are basing your opinions off of...assuming the 10 or 20 people you know well in that regard?

Your tiny sample size that is so small it's irrelevant does not match up to the data that is being measured across the spectrum.

Pretty much everything that is happening is a direct indication of Low T levels from actions, mindset, femininity, being overly emotional, to lack of ambition, to lack of sex drive, etc.

 

[BaronOfHair]

@BackInTheGame78 "I'm sure plenty will want to pretend this has nothing to do with it but sex hormones have a massive amount to do with how we think, our impulses, our mindsets and how we act"

Well, I'm not among those who deny Low T levels are a problem... Question becomes though: "What do we do about it?"

 

[OngBak]

Meh, the lack of testosterone in the younger generation of men with the average now at 422 for the average 22 year old male(same levels at a 70 year old had in the 1960s), and dropping a steady 1% every year for the last 45+ years at least has had deleterious effects on dating and the male mindset of being able to handle "rejection", IMO. Most young men have the mental toughness of a wet noodle these days.

Men acting like women more and more, as their T levels drop lower and lower, what a shocker.

I'm sure plenty will want to pretend this has nothing to do with it but sex hormones have a massive amount to do with how we think, our impulses, our mindsets and how we act. Especially in regards to sex, relationships, and sexual urges to where we "must seek it". Far far more than most people ever realize.

This is very well documented in many studies. It would be akin to saying that people who are 450 lbs are not doing any damage to their health and that's not a reason why they are dying earlier from any number of diseases/conditions. Essentially it's looking at very clear data and choosing to willfully ignore it.

Can confirm, the amount of People Id consider a "Men" in academia among the student were almost zero, never got along with them, except with the ones who lifted.

 

[BaronOfHair]

What is society going to do? Give young men more testosterone so they can be "roided" up and still be rejected by average women?

If we need to start encouraging young fellas to do so + Spend more time out in the sunlight and fresh air(Lack of Vitamin C obliterates one's T levels), and less in darkened basements glued to their game systems stuffing their faces with f-cking Twinkies... Yeah, absolutely!!!

NOT for women, but for themselves

 

[OngBak]

@BackInTheGame78 "I'm sure plenty will want to pretend this has nothing to do with it but sex hormones have a massive amount to do with how we think, our impulses, our mindsets and how we act"

Well, I'm not among those who deny Low T levels are a problem... Question becomes though: "What do we do about it?"

You cannot do much about it single handedly on your own, collective and governmental influence is needed to have meaningful impact, which in reality is limited and it will be almost hard to influence every segment of the Population unless it is politically enforced. What you can personally do is, make friends, acquaintances and build - expand your network where you share the same values, these are your typical visible influencers, but also the ones who aren't open about it publicly where both do the right thing. I have had one Friend in the past, who didn't take care of himself, skin care, hair care and body wise. Later he adapted to my values and actually did something about it, he was an exception, it honestly worked on him since he did not have ego issues. When you talk about Gym and that Lifestyle from my experience the guys show Ego issues, get insecure and overall downplay that lifestyle. What I noticed in such dynamics is also and I said it actually many times, how woman will boost the confidence of a fat guy around a good looking handsome muscular men, to gaslight other Men that they dont care about that type of Men until its late and they learn otherwise, this is a also a common pattern in academia i noticed from both students and professor.

 

[BaronOfHair]

@OngBak "You cannot do much about it single handedly on your own, collective and governmental"

And I(likely along with most of us here)am definitely not gung ho for more government regulation of daily life. Thus, as we discussed on seperate threads

https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/gymmaxxing-is-now-called-bigorexia.285595/#post-3184464

Looksmaxxing Goes Mainstream

https://nypost.com/2024/06/18/lifestyle/gen-z-men-are-spending-thousands-on-looksmaxxing/

www.sosuave.net

It's highly advisable for everyone to get on board with what we moderns derisively sneer at as "Looksmaxxing" , instead of concocting endless justifications for not doing the basics for ourselves

 

[Slowhandluke]

If we need to start encouraging young fellas to do so + Spend more time out in the sunlight and fresh air(Lack of Vitamin C obliterates one's T levels), and less in darkened basements glued to their game systems stuffing their faces with f-cking Twinkies... Yeah, absolutely!!!

NOT for women, but for themselves

sounds good. However, I suspect if the average man did have higher testosterone, the average women would still not pick him to start a family. How many times did a women break up with a guy because of something stupid? how many times did a women "monkey branch"? these things are independent of testosterone levels.

There is a saying, even if the guy was superman, a woman will ultimately find something wrong with him especially when society tells her if hes not perfect, just leave.. just date someone else, etc.. etc... this is independent of the guys testosterone levels. Dont like his sms because he replied too earlier/or too late, swipe left...

The guy has no hair, swipe left.. he isnt 6 feet 2? swipe left... he doesn't make 3x more than her, swipe left. how do things things factor into his testosterone levels?

lower testosterone levels could be the symptoms of men not dating... and not the cause of men not dating.

 

[OngBak]

@OngBak "You cannot do much about it single handedly on your own, collective and governmental"

And I(likely along with most of us here)am definitely not gung ho for more government regulation of daily life. Thus, as we discussed on seperate threads it's highly advisable for everyone to get on board with what we moderns derisively sneer at as "Looksmaxxing"

Looksmaxxing sure, it would be a place with shared values. All of them want to improve Look-wise, its a step you can make personally, but another part of the big change is usually in the hands of the government like banning additives that lower testosterone and so on, that was my point though.

 

[BaronOfHair]

@Slowhandluke "sounds good. However, I suspect if the average man did have higher testosterone, the average women would still not pick him to start a family"

And I'm saying that encouraging men to do such things for THEMSELVES, first and foremost, is going to be a far more sagacious move than pushing the message: "Do it to get cooter"...

A man's chances of achieving much of anything aren't strong, if he's not functioning especially well physically

 

[corrector]

@Slowhandluke "sounds good. However, I suspect if the average man did have higher testosterone, the average women would still not pick him to start a family"

And I'm saying that encouraging men to do such things for THEMSELVES, first and foremost, is going to be a far more sagacious move than pushing the message: "Do it to get cooter"...

A man's chances of achieving much of anything aren't strong, if he's not functioning especially well physically

Of course it's to get cooter. The framing may be different but it's more or less of the same varient of "build and they shall come". If women ceased to exist hypothetically then advice like that would be meaningless.